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    Indian Su-30MKI: News

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    Viktor
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    Re: Indian Su-30MKI: News

    Post  Viktor on Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:49 pm

    Austin wrote:No where its mentioned in the link on Su-35 there is sensor fusion , I think only PAK-FA might have true sensor fusion in Russian aircraft like how Rafale or JSF has it.

    Where is that difference in the "sensor fusion" between Rafale and Su-30 you are talking about?

    What do you consider to be a "sensor fusion"? and you will never be able to find a american made word to promote USA fighter in the same text with the Russian fighter

    but if you use different word for example "sensor integration" you can easily get something like this.

    An information management system integrated with onboard subsystems and a new phased array radar system with long-range aerial target detection have been installed in the aircraft, which is currently undergoing preliminary testing.

    LINK

    Sensor fusion or sensor integration means integrating all your available sensor to get a clear picture about whats going on and based on that data using computer algorithms or man made

    decisions decide what to do next.

    But hey - how can US talk about sensor fusion when it lack sensors or data networking when it lack comunication means. Half of its fleet still does not have IRST one of the most

    important sensors whose data is fused. Its F-22 still lacks laser comunication and can therefore not comunicate with the rest of the fleet Very Happy

    On the other hand you have Su-35 who has Irbis/IRST/L-band radars/ECM/decoys all fused togeather forming single information picture coupled with artificial inteligence.

    PAK-FA designers have integrated (sensor fused) 5 on board radar sets + IRST + decoys + ECM and are talking about smart skin and other novelities. Where are now Americans

    with their smart sensor fusion talk Very Happy

    And from the official Sukhoi page ...

    The distinctive feature of Su-35 is the employment of a new suite of onboard instruments. Its core is the information management system (IMS), which integrates functional, logical, informational and software subsystems into a single complex that ensures the interaction between the crew and equipment.

    http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/planes/military/Su-35/

    Rostec

    A new avionics set based on the digital information management system, new radar, new engines with increased thrust and swiveling thrust vector are the distinctive features of this fighter jet.

    LINK

    Remember that Russians have since the 70 begin to integrate their PVO fighter squadrons by sensor fusion well within PVO working in a coordinated manner. By the 80ies

    MiG-31 could fire its weapons based on the date received from another MiG-31 at the same time passing on data to a Baikal command posts thus indirectly coordinating SAMs

    firing in coordination to its targets.

    You dont have to fall for every western propaganda piece around Austin.

    Austin
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    Re: Indian Su-30MKI: News

    Post  Austin on Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:20 pm

    Thanks Viktor and Medo , I think the terminology used is what tricked me Laughing

    So Indian Su-30 currently lacks that capability which integrated all the data from multiple sources

    medo
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    Re: Indian Su-30MKI: News

    Post  medo on Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:37 pm

    Austin wrote:Thanks Viktor and Medo , I think the terminology used is what tricked me Laughing

    So Indian Su-30 currently lacks that capability which integrated all the data from multiple sources

    Don't be too quick in judging. Indian Su-30MKI definitively have a sensor fusion between Bars-M radar and OLS-30 IRST as they both work inside fire control complex. I don't know for Indian RWR. If Indian Su-30MKI could program and lock anti-radar missiles through on board RWR, than it is integrated inside fire control complex, if they need additional pod for anti-radar missiles, than they are not. Su-30MKI is a mix of Russian and western (mostly Israeli) components, so the best source is IAF, who use Su-30MKI, how well this integration is done. Malaysian and Algerian Su-30MKM and Su-30MKA have Russian L-150 Pastel RWRs and ECM pods, Malaysian Su-30MKM have western MAWS and LWR sensors and Democles targeting pod. Russian Su-30SM is actually based on Malaysian Su-30MKM, not Indian Su-30MKI, that is why it have HUD from Thales.

    GarryB
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    Re: Indian Su-30MKI: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:10 pm

    Sensor fusion is just about using software to blur where the information comes from.

    the pilot wont know and wont care where the information about the target or threat comes from... they will just want to know if it is timely and accurate.

    some radar antennas in the nose that reflect waves from the walls of nose and unify the waves?

    The waves are not unified... just detected... angle and strength.


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    Re: Indian Su-30MKI: News

    Post  Austin on Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:29 pm

    pic of the new 6-channel RWR with the MAWS for Su-30MKI

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Nz7m0n7YBRc/Umb1rCbc63I/AAAAAAAAF8k/Xcawr09xRCU/s1600/EW+suite+installation+on+Super+Su-30MKI.jpg


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    Re: Indian Su-30MKI: News

    Post  Austin on Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:45 pm

    Kindly check new development for Indian Super 30 MKI program , Dual IR channel based MAWS and new Mission Computer based on Power Architecture .....pretty much awesome

    http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6842&p=1884440#p1884428

    http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6842&p=1884440#p1884436

    jhelb
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    Re: Indian Su-30MKI: News

    Post  jhelb on Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:19 pm

    Austin wrote:Kindly check new development for Indian Super 30 MKI program , Dual IR channel based MAWS and  new Mission Computer based on Power Architecture .....pretty much awesome

    http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6842&p=1884440#p1884428

    http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6842&p=1884440#p1884436

    When are you guys expecting to get the first Super Su 30?

    medo
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    Re: Indian Su-30MKI: News

    Post  medo on Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:04 pm



    Indian Su-30MKI use additional pod to use with anti-radar missiles. There is a question, if this is because of capabilities of Indian made RWRs or problem with integration with Russian fire control complex.

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    Re: Indian Su-30MKI: News

    Post  Austin on Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:20 pm

    jhelb wrote:
    Austin wrote:Kindly check new development for Indian Super 30 MKI program , Dual IR channel based MAWS and  new Mission Computer based on Power Architecture .....pretty much awesome

    http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6842&p=1884440#p1884428

    http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6842&p=1884440#p1884436

    When are you guys expecting to get the first Super Su 30?

    Its under negotiation , The last interview with NIIP chief mentioned IAF was not sure to go for a new AESA or Irbis like radar for BARS upgrade.

    I would rather have a Irbis like radar fleet wide then AESA or few aircraft.


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    Re: Indian Su-30MKI: News

    Post  jhelb on Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:17 pm

    Austin wrote:Its under negotiation , The last interview with NIIP chief mentioned IAF was not sure to go for a new AESA or Irbis like radar for BARS upgrade.

    Look, I do not have the details about the Super Su 30 modernization program however if the Super Su 30 gets avionics/sensors that allows it to carry out terrain-hugging flight I suspect you guys can say goodbye to the Rafale because I feel that is the only thing that the Rafale can do that the Su 30MKI can't.

    Austin wrote:I would rather have a Irbis like radar fleet wide then AESA or few aircraft.

    Irbis is a great PESA radar, however if you are getting Tikhomirov's AESA radar as part of the Super 30 upgrade then take it by all means. An AESA antenna element can change its frequency of operation around 1000's of times per second. As a result, the radar beam does not operate at a single frequency, but rather, it is a very wide band signal. As the radar energy is now spread over a huge band, instead of a precise single frequency, the enemy thinks that this signal is simply background noise and ignores it.

    The only roadblock that I see is that  unlike the RuAF , the Indian AF will buy avionics from a number of Israeli, French maybe even US vendors. So compatibility of Tikhomirov's AESA radar with those avionics, fire control system can become an issue.

    All that said if your post in that Indian forum related to the delivery dates of the PAK FA to India are true then in all likelihood the Super 30 program will be cancelled. Su 30MKI will still be upgraded but the deep scale Super 30 program probably will be called off.



    http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6811&start=800

    In a way this makes sense, because after spending $5 billion + on Rafales it is natural that the Indian MoD will not have the budget for the Super Su 30 program.

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    Re: Indian Su-30MKI: News

    Post  Austin on Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:46 pm

    Can some one tell me the advantage of getting Source Code of Radar that India Defence also insist upon ?

    One advantage which I always knew was getting source code would allow integration of Indian Weapons into the aircraft without having to rely on OEM to integrate it , For eg India recently tested its BVR Astra on Su-30MKI as India has BARS source code.

    What is the other advantage in getting source code of radar ?

    Thank You

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    Re: Indian Su-30MKI: News

    Post  medo on Fri Aug 14, 2015 2:17 pm

    Austin wrote:Can some one tell me the advantage of getting Source Code of Radar that India Defence also insist upon ?

    One advantage which I always knew was getting source code would allow integration of Indian Weapons into the aircraft without having to rely on OEM to integrate it , For eg India recently tested its BVR Astra on Su-30MKI as India has BARS source code.

    What is the other advantage in getting source code of radar ?

    Thank You

    I don't think anyone is ready to give Source Codes for radars as then radar electronics and operational software is than compromised, specially if source codes are lost or comes to the wrong hands. Also if Indian user is doing his own changes in radar software to integrate foreign missile and than radar doesn't work properly, who will India blame? Most probably will NIIP have to repair damage and there will be big halo in medias, how Russian radars have defects in their software. That is why Indian Su-30MKI have two central computers, one is Russian made and one is Indian made, that India could integrate Indian and Israeli components in it. All other Su-30 have both central computers made in Russia.

    This is also the reason, why Tejas after 30 years of development is still not finished although India buy all components in the West, which are all for decades in use and well proven, that they work. Problem is, that India all those components from US, France and Israel could not integrate in one working complex, because no one want to compromise their products. If India did decades ago decide to use only Israeli components, than it would be operational for a decade now, but than the share of Israel in the plane will be around 80%. In that case it would be cheaper and better to simply buy a license to produce Israeli Lavi fighter.

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    Re: Indian Su-30MKI: News

    Post  jhelb on Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:50 am

    Austin wrote:Can some one tell me the advantage of getting Source Code of Radar that India Defence also insist upon ?

    One advantage which I always knew was getting source code would allow integration of Indian Weapons into the aircraft without having to rely on OEM to integrate it , For eg India recently tested its BVR Astra on Su-30MKI as India has BARS source code.

    What is the other advantage in getting source code of radar ?

    Thank You


    The US has come up with an alternative solution by coming up with the Universal Armament Interface(UAI).

    UAI was designed to break the cycle of improved weapons carriage coming with scucessive software blocks because the complexity of integrating the weapon, then upgrading the software block meant that you could only do 1 economically at a time.

    If you design or upgrade your weapon to be UAI compatible, all you need to do is perform store separation and establish the physical launch envelope, there is no mission-system integration work. The Weapon talks to the UAI interface onboard the weapon that then converts the information/data to something the mission computers can comprehend.


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    http://papers.sae.org/2012-01-2136/

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    Re: Indian Su-30MKI: News

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Aug 22, 2015 8:50 pm

    With the recent RAF and IAF wargames between Eurofighters and Su-30MKI's and as a result funny comments and excuses on the internet i found this mocking pic about that attitude.




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    Re: Indian Su-30MKI: News

    Post  max steel on Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:11 pm

    Werewolf wrote:With the recent RAF and IAF wargames between Eurofighters and Su-30MKI's and as a result funny comments and excuses on the internet i found this mocking pic about that attitude.




    Ha! That aint Indian flag btw its Irish.


    Last edited by max steel on Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:15 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Indian Su-30MKI: News

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:16 pm

    max steel wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:With the recent RAF and IAF wargames between Eurofighters and Su-30MKI's and as a result funny comments and excuses on the internet i found this mocking pic about that attitude.




    Ha! That aint Indian flag btw its Italian.

    Actually that's the flag the Indian Air Force uses as a military aircraft insignia, it's specifically called a 'fin flash':

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Air_Force

    ...It looks more like the Irish flag, because instead of of the color red that the Italians use, the Irish use the color orange, plus Italy is in NATO and they wouldn't be allowed to own Su-30MKI's.

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    Su-30MKI IAF

    Post  Austin on Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:31 pm

    I got the latest Air International which has article on ex Indra Dhanush , Let me know if any one is interested I can send on PM



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    Re: Indian Su-30MKI: News

    Post  medo on Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:29 pm

    http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/odisha/HAL-Technician-Held-for-Stealing-Sukhoi-Blades/2015/03/17/article2717400.ece

    KORAPUT: A senior technician of Sukhoi division of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), Arun Kumar Pradhan, was arrested on Sunday on charges of stealing parts of the fighter aircraft, Sukhoi, from the factory premises at Sunabeda in Koraput district. He was produced in SDJM Court which remanded him in judicial custody.

    Sources said HAL security personnel at the main gate caught Pradhan in possession of expensive blades of the aero engine of Sukhoi. Pradhan was later handed over to Sunabeda police.

    During investigation, police seized over 198 Sukhoi aero engine blades and other parts from Pradhan’s residence at Semiliguda. During interrogation, police came to know that Pradhan, who has a workshop at Semiliguda, used to supply the blades to a private company.

    Police find 198 jet engine blades and part for Su-30MKI engines. Who knows, how many blades and parts are build in somewhere, which police will never find and how many of those blades and parts are replaced with sh*tty parts from those private companies, which doesn't produce jet engines? Indian AF have a big luck, that not much more of their Su-30MKI crash, considering the corruption and incompetence in HAL. And than those clowns say Russia produce bad quality engines. After this finding IAF have to ground all Su-30MKI fighters and replace all engines with new engines from Russia. In the place of Sukhoi, I will sell them for double price, which HAL have to pay.

    Now it is really logical, why France doesn't want India to produce Rafales. They have seen, what India did with their Su-30.

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    Re: Indian Su-30MKI: News

    Post  jhelb on Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:43 pm

    medo wrote:Now it is really logical, why France doesn't want India to produce Rafales. They have seen, what India did with their Su-30.

    Fair point but from the link that you have shared it seems the guy was stealing parts of the Su 30 not replacing them. In any case India does not have the capability to manufacture such blades. Most of their components for the Su 30 come from Russia & Ukraine. Those guys only assemble it in India.

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    Re: Indian Su-30MKI: News

    Post  medo on Mon Sep 07, 2015 4:13 pm

    jhelb wrote:
    medo wrote:Now it is really logical, why France doesn't want India to produce Rafales. They have seen, what India did with their Su-30.

    Fair point but from the link that you have shared it seems the guy was stealing parts of the Su 30 not replacing them. In any case India does not have the capability to manufacture such blades. Most of their components for the Su 30 come from Russia & Ukraine. Those guys only assemble it in India.

    He is stealing them for a private company. I doubt he is doing it alone and hide those blades in a pocket on his trousers. If those blades come from Russia, than you could be sure, they are in exact numbers, what means stolen blades could be noticed as they could not complete engines. I think they replace them by fake blades, that their number is OK and no one notice missing blades.

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    Re: Indian Su-30MKI: News

    Post  GarryB on Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:56 am

    To be convincing the blades would not be fake.

    Often blades are replaced because they have microscopic cracks in them... basically you remove such blades and replace them with new ones... I suspect this guy just said he found blades that had cracks that did not have cracks and pretended to replace them but basically took the perfectly good blade out and put it back in and kept the new unused blade for himself.

    Such theft is common... for instance a soldier can make some money selling military grade HE or small arms ammo. When issued 150 rounds to fire in an exercise who will notice that he only fired 20 rounds instead of 150? Who will notice that explosive charge he set had 20 grams of HE instead of the 200 grams it was supposed to have?

    Keep the difference and stockpile it till you have enough to go into town and sell to the highest bidder...

    I have read about cases in the US where small arms ammo, HE charges and blasting caps, and even TOW and LAW missiles and rockets are sold on the black market...


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    Re: Indian Su-30MKI: News

    Post  jhelb on Wed Sep 09, 2015 8:31 pm

    GarryB wrote:I have read about cases in the US where small arms ammo, HE charges and blasting caps, and even TOW and LAW missiles and rockets are sold on the black market...

    "The Art Of The Deal" Very Happy

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    Re: Indian Su-30MKI: News

    Post  Werewolf on Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:01 pm

    "Heared" of someone selling a G3 and 7.62x51mm ammunition about 16 years ago.

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    India Plans Joint Su-30 Aircraft Modernization With Russia - Rostec

    Post  Pinto on Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:50 pm

    Russian state technology corporation Rostec said that India has expressed interest in carrying out a joint project to extensively modernize its SU-30MKI aircraft in collaboration with Russian companies.

    Russia, India in Talks on Making Ammo for Smerch Rocket Launchers
    MOSCOW (Sputnik) – India has expressed interest in carrying out a joint project to extensively modernize its SU-30MKI aircraft in collaboration with Russian companies, the Russian state technology corporation Rostec said in a statement Friday.

    "In the long term, as recommended by the Russian Ministry of Defense, we plan a major upgrade of the SU-30SM [model] to increase its combat effectiveness. The Indian government has expressed interest in collaborating to modernize the SU-30MKI, which is an evolution of the SU-30SM," the statement reads.

    According to the statement, both aircraft models will be given upgraded avionics and radars, as well as an improved engine. The SU-30SM and the SU-30MKI will also be equipped with additional weapons.

    The SU-30 MKI, NATO reporting name Flanker-H, is the Indian Air Force’s elite fighter-bomber. It was developed by Russia's Sukhoi Aviation Corporation and built under license by India's Hindustan Aeronautics.

    Russia and India have been close partners in military and technical cooperation for decades. In 2014, the total value of weapons and military hardware delivered by Russia to India reached $4.7 billion, according to Russian Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation estimates.



    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/business/20150911/1026864701.html#ixzz3lQyM1QaY

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    Re: Indian Su-30MKI: News

    Post  Militarov on Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:16 am

    "The Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha, inaugurated a structural repair shop for Sukhoi-30 MKI fighter planes at the Repairs and Overhaul facility in Nashik, Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. said on Wednesday.

    The Sukhoi-30s are described as the backbone of the IAF and the repair shop is said to be among the few in the world for the Russian-make fighters. “HAL plans activities such as aircraft handling, airframe structural repair, overhauling of hatch covers, repair and servicing of looms, and repair and overhaul of mechanical rotables, a HAL release said."


    Source: http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/bangalore/sukhoi-repair-centre-at-nashik/article7917486.ece

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