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    Russian Helicopter ATGMs

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    Cyrus the great
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    Re: Russian Helicopter ATGMs

    Post  Cyrus the great on Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:32 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    I know that the Russians have an arguably superior missile [Hermes] with far greater speeds and a whopping 100 km max range, but it weighs 110 kg.

    AFAIK only the ground launched model of Hermes will reach 100km range with a ballistic flight path.

    Couldn't the Russians either create a lighter variant of the Hermes [around 50 kg] or extend the range of the khrizantema to 15-20 km for its attack helicopters?

    the standard model Hermes for helicopter launch will have a range of about 20km, and I suspect later model helicopter launched variations of Khrisantema and Vikhr will likely persist as the cheaper lighter options.


    The 20 km range is extraordinary but the Hermes-A still weighs 110 kg. A 20 km version of the Khrizantema would be ideal for attack helicopters. I know that it would probably be needlessly expensive to develop such a variant, but hey, one can dream.

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    Re: Russian Helicopter ATGMs

    Post  Cyrus the great on Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:55 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    Cyrus the great wrote:
    God, I love this forum... I am learning so much. I'm surprised that the Hellfire isn't nearly as capable as I was led to believe. I know that the Russians have an arguably superior missile [Hermes] with far greater speeds and a whopping 100 km max range, but it weighs 110 kg. Couldn't the Russians either create a lighter variant of the Hermes [around 50 kg] or extend the range of the khrizantema to 15-20 km for its attack helicopters?

    The comparision between Hellfire and Hermes isn't fair, they were designed in completley different times and are different kind of technology generation. If you want to compare it to a counterpart so you have to compare it with one off the US designs as next gen. heliborne ATGM. The US had several proposals, some died off, were closed some emerged into existing projects like raytheons project PAASM (Precision Attack Air-to Surface Missile) AFAIK which was canceled years ago, then there was JCM (Join Common Missile) that was a replacement for Mavericks with up to 28km range (fixed wing) that was also tested in 2005 for Apaches, the budget for that project was terminated and relocated to the JAGM project. That would be the current project be JGAM (Joint Air-to Ground Missile) which is to great deal based on Hellfire and has a range of around 15-18km,(which mainly comes as a deal between new rocket engine and non dogmatic "top attack" trajectory which burned the fuel before it even reached 2km mark) however not much information on it but is suppossed to be the introduced into active service in 2019 roughly the same timeline of Hermes, but that will take some years untill those missiles will be in sufficient numbers and take even longer to be called "main armament" far post 2025.

    http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/products/JAGM.html


    I guess I was terribly unfair comparing recently developed missiles to those that have been in service for decades. If a top-attack trajectory is so difficult to deploy beyond reasonable range, why doesn't the US just scrap that particular requirement and get on with it? That's probably a stupid question seeing as how the top-attack trajectory is in vogue now. A 20 km variant of the Khrizantema for rotary aircraft would be a game changer. Thanks for your extensive reply.
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    Re: Russian Helicopter ATGMs

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Jun 21, 2015 5:09 pm

    Cyrus the great wrote:
    I guess I was terribly unfair comparing recently developed missiles to those that have been in service for decades. If a top-attack trajectory is so difficult to deploy beyond reasonable range, why doesn't the US just scrap that particular requirement and get on with it? That's probably a stupid question seeing as how the top-attack trajectory is in vogue now. A 20 km variant of the Khrizantema for rotary aircraft would be a game changer. Thanks for your extensive reply.

    Well the top-attack requirement isn't the issue here, the issue with the Hellfire is does not have a direct-launch profile mode. It has three missile launch profiles, low trajectory, the missile still tries to gain altitude considered Top attack even tho the missile does not hit tanks roof armor, not even close. The other profiles are mid and high, they both gain again altitude the difference with mid and low trajectory is the missile launch profile and trajectory of gaining altitude and going down on target is still rather flat, but the high trajectory was initially designed to be used behind cover so the missile will not hit trees, obstacles or nearby buildings which is the actual top attack, all other profiles do not even hit the weak roof armor, it gives them still some advantage due better angle to armor but that is essentially the case for any heliborne launched missile/rocket.

    They did not see it as a big problem because it is not a big problem, most engagements of Apaches vs tanks are done between 30-700m at such altitudes the operators can't even see nor designate targets further away than 3-4km and that is the case for all Helicopters, they all have a similiar requirement to deploy to battlefield with high valued targets like MBT's with NoE (Nap over Earth) flights, because it is crucial for helicopters to stay undetected with very good intel of enemy forces for succesful and effective use of helicopters. Russians, Chinese, US and any other country try to reduce the chances of being spotted or targeted by MANPADS by flying low to their targets and they usually remain lower than 1km altitude for many reasons, not being spotted, it is far more effecient with combat load to fly at lower altitudes due better and denser air which gives better flight performance and fuel effecient flight. They usually tend to gain altitude 2-3km away from tanks and then launch their ATGM's, but that is not always the case and will not be always the case due the increasing capability of defense suites and when non isolated targets appear, where a full strike against a variety of targets is necessary, the US has adopted the same thing the Soviets/Russians did and still do with Hinds, which provides the highest and most effecient way of dealing with quite often occuring targets of different value in formation or fortification.
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    Re: Russian Helicopter ATGMs

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:00 am

    The main feature of the Hermes is speed.

    Getting to the target area quickly is critical especially against a moving target that, if it is a tank, will be accelerating from cover to cover looking for targets.

    Having a range of 20km is great, but smoke and dust and the general difficulty of detecting and properly identifying targets at that range mean most actual shots will be taken at rather shorter range.

    Krisantema will not likely ever get a range of 20km... 8-10km is rather more sensible, as there are plenty of battlefield targets that don't require a Hermes sized weapon to kill them... a smaller, lighter, shorter range weapon that is also cheaper makes a lot of sense... and in this situation I would be in favour of the Ka-52 keeping its Vikhr missiles as well, though Hermes will be the primary long range weapon for helos and light aircraft...


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    Re: Russian Helicopter ATGMs

    Post  Cyrus the great on Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:16 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    Cyrus the great wrote:
    I guess I was terribly unfair comparing recently developed missiles to those that have been in service for decades. If a top-attack trajectory is so difficult to deploy beyond reasonable range, why doesn't the US just scrap that particular requirement and get on with it? That's probably a stupid question seeing as how the top-attack trajectory is in vogue now. A 20 km variant of the Khrizantema for rotary aircraft would be a game changer. Thanks for your extensive reply.

    Well the top-attack requirement isn't the issue here, the issue with the Hellfire is does not have a direct-launch profile mode. It has three missile launch profiles, low trajectory, the missile still tries to gain altitude considered Top attack even tho the missile does not hit tanks roof armor, not even close. The other profiles are mid and high, they both gain again altitude the difference with mid and low trajectory is the missile launch profile and trajectory of gaining altitude and going down on target is still rather flat, but the high trajectory was initially designed to be used behind cover so the missile will not hit trees, obstacles or nearby buildings which is the actual top attack, all other profiles do not even hit the weak roof armor, it gives them still some advantage due better angle to armor but that is essentially the case for any heliborne launched missile/rocket.

    They did not see it as a big problem because it is not a big problem, most engagements of Apaches vs tanks are done between 30-700m at such altitudes the operators can't even see nor designate targets further away than 3-4km and that is the case for all Helicopters, they all have a similiar requirement to deploy to battlefield with high valued targets like MBT's with NoE (Nap over Earth) flights, because it is crucial for helicopters to stay undetected with very good intel of enemy forces for succesful and effective use of helicopters. Russians, Chinese, US and any other country try to reduce the chances of being spotted or targeted by MANPADS by flying low to their targets and they usually remain lower than 1km altitude for many reasons, not being spotted, it is far more effecient with combat load to fly at lower altitudes due better and denser air which gives better flight performance and fuel effecient flight. They usually tend to gain altitude 2-3km away from tanks and then launch their ATGM's, but that is not always the case and will not be always the case due the increasing capability of defense suites and when non isolated targets appear, where a full strike against a variety of targets is necessary, the US has adopted the same thing the Soviets/Russians did and still do with Hinds, which provides the highest and most effecient way of dealing with quite often occuring targets of different value in formation or fortification.

    I really cannot add much to this, other than to say thank you. When you lay it out like that [with facts] it makes it untenable for me to continue arguing for a 20 km missile in a theatre replete with sophisticated air defence systems like the Russian Pantsir. I will have to read up on deployment doctrines and the constraints that the environment impose on them instead of being fixated on weapon (s) performance stats.

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    Re: Russian Helicopter ATGMs

    Post  Cyrus the great on Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:47 pm

    GarryB wrote:The main feature of the Hermes is speed.

    Getting to the target area quickly is critical especially against a moving target that, if it is a tank, will be accelerating from cover to cover looking for targets.

    Having a range of 20km is great, but smoke and dust and the general difficulty of detecting and properly identifying targets at that range mean most actual shots will be taken at rather shorter range.

    Krisantema will not likely ever get a range of 20km... 8-10km is rather more sensible, as there are plenty of battlefield targets that don't require a Hermes sized weapon to kill them... a smaller, lighter, shorter range weapon that is also cheaper makes a lot of sense... and in this situation I would be in favour of the Ka-52 keeping its Vikhr missiles as well, though Hermes will be the primary long range weapon for helos and light aircraft...


    Yeah, I couldn't believe my eyes when I first saw the speed of the Hermes missile. You're right, a 20 km missile would be difficult to deploy, and even then, it could only be conceivably deployable against third world insurgents with last generation MANPADS. I like the fact that you and Werewolf have been really patient with me. Thanks, Garry
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    Re: Russian Helicopter ATGMs

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:17 am

    It is important to keep in mind the platforms involved and their job.

    In the early 1980s you have the Hind operating with Su-25s in attack or with Mi-8 Hips dropping in troops.

    In the former job 5km range guided missiles is plenty for daylight only attacks on point hard targets and rockets and light cannon/HMG for area targets.

    Fitting the Hind with a 20km range guided missile would be a total waste of time.

    Today however, with their long range sensors, high speed and connection to a battle network that will include all sorts of data sourced from UAVs and recon units and satellites and finding targets deep behind enemy lines becomes much more likely.

    Of course having a range of 20km does not mean using it from 20km with every shot... most of the time it will be from less than half that, but a well protected target can be weakened from a distance so even against a very strong enemy these weapons will be useful in reducing a strong defence to the point where other assets can get closer and finish it off.

    Hermes will be very useful for Su-25 and its replacement aircraft too due to the standoff range it will confer on the aircraft making attacks much safer without compromising accuracy.


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    Russian ATGM missiles

    Post  Cyrus the great on Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:27 pm

    GarryB wrote:It is important to keep in mind the platforms involved and their job.

    In the early 1980s you have the Hind operating with Su-25s in attack or with Mi-8 Hips dropping in troops.

    In the former job 5km range guided missiles is plenty for daylight only attacks on point hard targets and rockets and light cannon/HMG for area targets.

    Fitting the Hind with a 20km range guided missile would be a total waste of time.

    Today however, with their long range sensors, high speed and connection to a battle network that will include all sorts of data sourced from UAVs and recon units and satellites and finding targets deep behind enemy lines becomes much more likely.

    Of course having a range of 20km does not mean using it from 20km with every shot... most of the time it will be from less than half that, but a well protected target can be weakened from a distance so even against a very strong enemy these weapons will be useful in reducing a strong defence to the point where other assets can get closer and finish it off.

    Hermes will be very useful for Su-25 and its replacement aircraft too due to the standoff range it will confer on the aircraft making attacks much safer without compromising accuracy.

    The Ka-52 would be a perfect candidate for a 20 km missile if or when the Russians feel that they need such a capability. I like the fact that the Russians are keeping close air support aircraft like the Su-25 instead of deluding themselves with the notion that an aircraft like the F-35 can take its place in CAS operations.
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    Re: Russian Helicopter ATGMs

    Post  George1 on Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:02 am

    I have read that 9M120 Ataka missile is often confused with 9K121 Vikhr, although are 2 different systems.

    Mil Moscow Helicopter Plant favours the former, while Sukhoi and Kamov favour the latter.



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    Re: Russian Helicopter ATGMs

    Post  Kyo on Fri Oct 23, 2015 2:10 pm

    Kalashnikov Delivered First Batch of Vikhr 1 Missiles to Russian Army



    Is this old, or a newcomer?
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    Re: Russian Helicopter ATGMs

    Post  Militarov on Fri Oct 23, 2015 2:23 pm

    Kyo wrote:Kalashnikov Delivered First Batch of Vikhr 1 Missiles to Russian Army



    Is this old, or a newcomer?

    Interesting article coz from what i know Vikhr-1 was adopted into service in early 90s and it was ordered before too but not in significant amounts, i dont think they are first, its probably refering to "first batch of 6000 ordered".

    "August 6, 2013: Russia has ordered over 6,000 Vikhr (9K121/AT-16) laser guided missiles. The $400 million order was in part to prevent the manufacturer from going bankrupt. The 45 kg (99 pound) Vikhr is similar to the American Hellfire, but did not show up until 1990. Sales have been slow since then, in part because another Russian manufacturer had a similar missile (Ataka V). While Vikhr is similar in size and function to Hellfire, it uses a different (laser beam riding) laser guidance system. Vikhr has a max range of 10 kilometers and a 10 kg (22 pound) warhead. It is primarily used on Ka-50/52 helicopters and Su-25 ground attack aircraft. The older (and more numerous) Mi-24 helicopter uses the Ataka V."
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    Vikhr (9K121/AT-16)

    Post  sepheronx on Fri Oct 23, 2015 7:19 pm

    There was an issue with the quality of the Vikhr's in the past. So they had to make changes. Apparently, according to TR1 over at the keypub forums that Kalashnikov plant figured out the issues and updated production of them. So there should be an updated and more quality variant of the Vikhr missile.
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    Now that the Mi-28NM has the full standard radar

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:48 am

    Now that the Mi-28NM has the full standard radar with the capability to detect and track targets automatically at long range, then it makes sense to start deploying longer range missiles and heavier weapons.

    It seems the radio command guided missiles like Ataka and radar guided Krisantema can be guided by the mast mounted antenna which has 360 degree scanning performance.

    Now that it will be able to detect ground and air targets from extended ranges then having extended range missiles becomes practical too...

    Of course for the vast majority of targets in Syria a Vikhr or Ataka or Shturm or Krisantema would already be over kill and beyond the range of return fire...

    I would expect the radar and optics systems to be linked to laser beam riding weapons can be guided as well with the potential to hand targets detected with the radar to the EO system for inspection and engagement.

    I am sure they will be testing Hermes on the Ka-52K as well as other platforms.

    The Su-34 might even be able to carry one pylons worth... a very high speed medium altitude launch would be pretty devastating to most small targets and would arrive without warning.


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    Re: Russian Helicopter ATGMs

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:03 am

    GarryB wrote:

    I am sure they will be testing Hermes on the Ka-52K as well as other platforms.

    What do you mean "will be". This mounting was shown back in 2009. If hermes-A is still not ready then there is a severe problem with the management that needs a stalin-esque purge. The time for "will" is long gone, now there is "ASAP".
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    Re: Russian Helicopter ATGMs

    Post  Militarov on Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:42 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    GarryB wrote:

    I am sure they will be testing Hermes on the Ka-52K as well as other platforms.

    What do you mean "will be". This mounting was shown back in 2009. If hermes-A is still not ready then there is a severe problem with the management that needs a stalin-esque purge. The time for "will" is long gone, now there is "ASAP".

    Placing empty containers on hardpoint does not equal missile development and integration on combat platform you know. Hermes is still not ready judging by recent reports and seems it wont enter service for a while, hopefully development will be finished though 2017 and IOC will start in 2018. Again, hopefully. Some firing tests were held in 2015. and 2016. that is what we know.

    Here you can gasp how far back whole project we call Hermes actually goes: http://rbase.new-factoria.ru/missile/wobb/hermes/hermes.shtml
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    Re: Russian Helicopter ATGMs

    Post  Militarov on Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:44 pm

    GarryB wrote:Now that the Mi-28NM has the full standard radar with the capability to detect and track targets automatically at long range, then it makes sense to start deploying longer range missiles and heavier weapons.

    It seems the radio command guided missiles like Ataka and radar guided Krisantema can be guided by the mast mounted antenna which has 360 degree scanning performance.

    Now that it will be able to detect ground and air targets from extended ranges then having extended range missiles becomes practical too...

    Of course for the vast majority of targets in Syria a Vikhr or Ataka or Shturm or Krisantema would already be over kill and beyond the range of return fire...

    I would expect the radar and optics systems to be linked to laser beam riding weapons can be guided as well with the potential to hand targets detected with the radar to the EO system for inspection and engagement.

    I am sure they will be testing Hermes on the Ka-52K as well as other platforms.

    The Su-34 might even be able to carry one pylons worth... a very high speed medium altitude launch would be pretty devastating to most small targets and would arrive without warning.

    If there is a will, and i hope there is, Hermes could be used on Su-34/Su-30 same way Brimstone is used on Typhoons.
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    Re: Russian Helicopter ATGMs

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:20 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    GarryB wrote:

    I am sure they will be testing Hermes on the Ka-52K as well as other platforms.

    What do you mean "will be". This mounting was shown back in 2009. If hermes-A is still not ready then there is a severe problem with the management that needs a stalin-esque purge. The time for "will" is long gone, now there is "ASAP".

    Placing empty containers on hardpoint does not equal missile development and integration on combat platform you know. Hermes is still not ready judging by recent reports and seems it wont enter service for a while, hopefully development will be finished though 2017 and IOC will start in 2018. Again, hopefully. Some firing tests were held in 2015. and 2016. that is what we know.

    Here you can gasp how far back whole project we call Hermes actually goes: http://rbase.new-factoria.ru/missile/wobb/hermes/hermes.shtml
    So you're saying the situation is even more effed up since the development is going for 13 FUCKING YEARS already? Tanks are developed and put into service faster.
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    Re: Russian Helicopter ATGMs

    Post  Militarov on Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:00 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    GarryB wrote:

    I am sure they will be testing Hermes on the Ka-52K as well as other platforms.

    What do you mean "will be". This mounting was shown back in 2009. If hermes-A is still not ready then there is a severe problem with the management that needs a stalin-esque purge. The time for "will" is long gone, now there is "ASAP".

    Placing empty containers on hardpoint does not equal missile development and integration on combat platform you know. Hermes is still not ready judging by recent reports and seems it wont enter service for a while, hopefully development will be finished though 2017 and IOC will start in 2018. Again, hopefully. Some firing tests were held in 2015. and 2016. that is what we know.

    Here you can gasp how far back whole project we call Hermes actually goes: http://rbase.new-factoria.ru/missile/wobb/hermes/hermes.shtml
    So you're saying the situation is even more effed up since the development is going for 13 FUCKING YEARS already? Tanks are developed and put into service faster.

    Actually Hermes-A was first time mentioned in 1995. in magazine "Авиация - Kосмонавтикa".
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    Re: Russian Helicopter ATGMs

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:18 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    GarryB wrote:

    I am sure they will be testing Hermes on the Ka-52K as well as other platforms.

    What do you mean "will be". This mounting was shown back in 2009. If hermes-A is still not ready then there is a severe problem with the management that needs a stalin-esque purge. The time for "will" is long gone, now there is "ASAP".

    Placing empty containers on hardpoint does not equal missile development and integration on combat platform you know. Hermes is still not ready judging by recent reports and seems it wont enter service for a while, hopefully development will be finished though 2017 and IOC will start in 2018. Again, hopefully. Some firing tests were held in 2015. and 2016. that is what we know.

    Here you can gasp how far back whole project we call Hermes actually goes: http://rbase.new-factoria.ru/missile/wobb/hermes/hermes.shtml
    So you're saying the situation is even more effed up since the development is going for 13 FUCKING YEARS already? Tanks are developed and put into service faster.

    Actually Hermes-A was first time mentioned in 1995. in magazine "Авиация - Kосмонавтикa".

    A heavy ATGM that is developed for 23 years. Simply unreal. I wont be surprised if plasma cannons exist by the time the Hermes A enters service.
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    Re: Russian Helicopter ATGMs

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:24 am

    What do you mean "will be". This mounting was shown back in 2009. If hermes-A is still not ready then there is a severe problem with the management that needs a stalin-esque purge. The time for "will" is long gone, now there is "ASAP".

    Hahaha... I have a book from KPB tula from 2001 with mockups of the Hermes missile... do you think that means anything?

    If there is a will, and i hope there is, Hermes could be used on Su-34/Su-30 same way Brimstone is used on Typhoons.

    Would be interesting if they developed a smaller free fall model without the rocket booster to be released from high altitude from UCAVs... with a glider wing package or something.

    So you're saying the situation is even more effed up since the development is going for 13 FUCKING YEARS already? Tanks are developed and put into service faster.

    Grow up child.

    WTF is the point of putting into service a missile with a range of 20km when the in service attack helos that would carry it can't detect targets at more than 8-10km at best?

    Right now the Mi-28NM is getting near production and its mast mounted radar should be able to detect larger targets at 20-25km (ie buildings and bridges etc as well as tanks and IFVs). So now it starts to become useful... but even if it was ready right no in service aircraft could even use its capabilities... Vikhr is in service and much cheaper... as is Krisantema and Ataka.



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    Re: Russian Helicopter ATGMs

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:59 pm

    At least khrisantema is in service...
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    Re: Russian Helicopter ATGMs

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:04 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    What do you mean "will be". This mounting was shown back in 2009. If hermes-A is still not ready then there is a severe problem with the management that needs a stalin-esque purge. The time for "will" is long gone, now there is "ASAP".

    Hahaha... I have a book from KPB tula from 2001 with mockups of the Hermes missile... do you think that means anything?

    If there is a will, and i hope there is, Hermes could be used on Su-34/Su-30 same way Brimstone is used on Typhoons.

    Would be interesting if they developed a smaller free fall model without the rocket booster to be released from high altitude from UCAVs... with a glider wing package or something.

    So you're saying the situation is even more effed up since the development is going for 13 FUCKING YEARS already? Tanks are developed and put into service faster.

    Grow up child.

    WTF is the point of putting into service a missile with a range of 20km when the in service attack helos that would carry it can't detect targets at more than 8-10km at best?

    Right now the Mi-28NM is getting near production and its mast mounted radar should be able to detect larger targets at 20-25km (ie buildings and bridges etc as well as tanks and IFVs). So now it starts to become useful... but even if it was ready right no in service aircraft could even use its capabilities... Vikhr is in service and much cheaper... as is Krisantema and Ataka.

    They could've put it into service on the Su-25SM3, Su-30MK,, or on truck mounted launchers while being guided by UAVs.
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    GarryB
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    Re: Russian Helicopter ATGMs

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:08 am

    You do understand the difference between a mockup and a functional operational weapon right?

    Right now MiG can talk about the MiG-41 all they want... it can do everything and be everything the air force needs and more... but without funding it remains talk and mockups.

    If the air force actually decides it wants it it does not matter when MiG started talking about it... whether it was 1988 or 2016 when the funds start flowing the development goes beyond the prototype stage and the weapon ends its theory stage and starts development into being a system... from the weapon itself and all the electronics and systems needed to all the support and even training equipment and systems.

    The hermes is evolved from the SA-22 SAM missile so the airframe and launch tube are already developed but there is plenty to add... like about 5 different terminal guidance options that they promised. The final system will likely have multi sensors like mmw radar guidance, IIR guidance, GLONASS guidance, laser target homing.

    then they have to add them to the different platforms and test them on those.

    An Su-25TM might be able to use these missiles in terms of detection range and capability but I would think an Su-25SM3 would probably need something like a SAPSAN targeting pod to engage targets with HERMES.

    I would expect if guided rockets are to be used on the Frogfoot then it is more likely to be the S-25 with a laser homing warhead. 150kgs of HE on target would be rather devastating enough and probably cheaper too.


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    Flanky
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    Re: Russian Helicopter ATGMs

    Post  Flanky on Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:28 pm

    I was also very keen to know Hermes project status. Because all i hear is talk and talk... But i have seen Brimstone capabilities: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXyYXqX4Beo&t=49s
    If i were a person responsible for Hermes project development i would wait for Brimstone to be fielded and see its actual real capabilities and then finish Hermes development with equal if not better capabilities. I suspect this is probably what is happening. They are waiting to see how Brimstone will turn up to be and will adjust Hermes capabilities based on that?
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    GarryB
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    Re: Russian Helicopter ATGMs

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:56 am

    I don't think so.

    Hermes is being developed for a customer... the Russian military.

    I very much doubt the Russian military will be saying to KBP that whatever they make of Hermes it has to be better than Brimstone...

    the russian military will have a fairly specific set of requirements in terms of speed, guidance options, range and effect on various types of target types... and they will all be unrelated to Brimstone.



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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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