Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Meteor vs RVV-BD Long Range AAM

    Share

    TR1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5840
    Points : 5892
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Meteor vs RVV-BD Long Range AAM

    Post  TR1 on Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:31 pm

    Mindstorm wrote:
    My thoughts as well. Range comes into question though, as BD also seems to be intended for internal application and hence has reduced range compared to R-37 ( they stated 200km for BD, while the missile family clearly has potential for more).


    Tr1 the 200 km range of RVV-BD has literally nothing to do with "supposed" internal carriage, it instead has anything to do with the fact that the missile in question is nothing more than an export version intended for export .

    On the specific of its range at pag 26 of Aviation Week of July/August 2011 is specified


    The missile's key feature is ots extended range, which company officials note is 200 km using a two-stage motor, or significantly more of the 120 km for the R-33E .Although Russian industry had been working on longer-range versions, the defense ministry has set 200 km as the range for the export version




    On the Take-Off magazine of December 2011 pag 34 is specified :

    "Boris Obnosov confirmed that Vympel was developing a long-range weapon in addition to the RVV-SD medium- and RVVMD short-range missiles.
    Last year, paperwork for an export version, designated as RVV-BD, was finalised, which cleared it for display at MAKS 2011."


    According to the official information disseminated during the air show, the new missile’s performance is far more advanced over that of the well-known long-range R-33E


    Most probably, the RVV-BD is an export version of the advanced longrange missile being developed under the programme of MiG-31 interceptor upgrade in service with the Russian Air Force (an upgraded MiG-31BM was shown at a static display during MAKS 2011).


    Practically ,as its cousins RVV-SD and RVV-MD, is nothing more than a scaled down export version of the domestic LRAAM purposely designed ,adapted and limited for international market ; in particular RVV-BD is offered for the foreign market as a successor of the R-33E offered with MIG-31E.



    Thanks, the info is appreciated!

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15439
    Points : 16146
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Meteor vs RVV-BD Long Range AAM

    Post  GarryB on Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:26 pm

    Gary, I have yet to see a single Russian source indicating the MiG-31s are anyone but the VVS's, and trust me, I looked around. They still fly in VVS colors

    But are they under VVS control, or are they directed by the new Aerospace Defence Forces?

    When they were part of the PVO they were part of the Air Force, but for a while the PVO became a separate branch.

    Now it has been merged with the Space Defence Forces and the command structure is via the Space Defence Forces rather than VVS.

    I think it would be best to wait till after the tests of the RVV_BD are complete and the weapon has been accepted into service before we decide whether they will alter the design to suit the new weapons.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15439
    Points : 16146
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Meteor vs RVV-BD Long Range AAM

    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:03 am

    Practically ,as its cousins RVV-SD and RVV-MD, is nothing more than a scaled down export version of the domestic LRAAM purposely designed ,adapted and limited for international market ; in particular RVV-BD is offered for the foreign market as a successor of the R-33E offered with MIG-31E.

    The whole RVV-AE designation means air to air missile, active radar guided, for export, and is the export model of the domestic R-77. The RVV-SD and RVV-MD, and RVV-BD are therefore export models, but they aren't just export models of the old R-77, R-73, and R-37M respectively.

    The RVV-AE is the R-77, so the RVV-SD is a greatly updated and improved model with digital signal processing chips and all round improved performance. The SD is a similarly greatly improved digital model of the R-73, and that the BD is fully digital too.

    Now they are not going to export their best stuff now and we can assume that in parallel with these new digital upgraded missiles for export they will also have a domestic digital equivalent for each weapon that are being produced and bought by the Russian AF.

    Perhaps an R-77M, because the R-77 was bought in very small numbers as it could be carried by Mig-29C aircraft with the hump back. The R-73 is likely designated R-73M2 or something, while the BD will likely be designated R-37M... it will be interesting to see if they use them on the Su-35 and Mig-35 which could both use the missiles range because of their radar performance.

    The better question is, will the next generation of Russian AAM designed from scratch... likely to fit in internal weapons bays... be exported widely, or only to countries that buy the PAK FA?

    Recent talk about future Russian aircraft carriers mention capability to not just dominate the sea surface and air space around a carrier group, but also the underwater and outer space above the carrier... this suggests an aircraft carried missile able to reach up and hit satellites or ballistic missiles outside the atmosphere...

    max steel
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2980
    Points : 3014
    Join date : 2015-02-12
    Location : South Pole

    Re: Meteor vs RVV-BD Long Range AAM

    Post  max steel on Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:29 pm

    How capable is the Meteor in pulling Gs? Does the ramjet enhance maneuverability significantly in the turn factor? For example the AMRAAM can pull 30 Gs max and probably turns tightest at Mach 3 speed. The AIM-9X Sidewinder can pull 60 Gs etc.US tested Have Dash II was capable of 50G maximum maneuver capability

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15439
    Points : 16146
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Meteor vs RVV-BD Long Range AAM

    Post  GarryB on Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:41 am

    jet engines offer the advantage of continuous power to compensate for energy bleeding off in hard turns, but there is always the risk of a flame out.

    Ramjet engines are compromises and have their place, but a scramjet design would make the concept much more attractive as the speed increases dramatically, while the negatives do not...


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    max steel
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2980
    Points : 3014
    Join date : 2015-02-12
    Location : South Pole

    Re: Meteor vs RVV-BD Long Range AAM

    Post  max steel on Wed May 25, 2016 11:30 pm

    How difficult is to intercept and air-air missile with another air-air missile. I heard claims such as the IRIS-T and R-77 series are advertised to intercept enemy air-air missiles and surface-air missiles. US is also making the SACM/MSD to take out enemy air-air missile.

    Any info on SACM vs R-77 comparison ?

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15439
    Points : 16146
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Meteor vs RVV-BD Long Range AAM

    Post  GarryB on Thu May 26, 2016 12:33 pm

    Well you are talking about an Air to Air missile designed to hit an aircraft size target being used against a target that when flying end on is smaller than a dinner plate, and generally flying much faster than most aircraft fly at most of the time.

    Part of the issue is concentrating fragments and blast at such a small target to be effective, and of course actually targeting the target in the first place with its very small RCS.

    Of course missiles like the upcoming 9M100 Morfei is designed from the outset to be used in the CIWS role for the navy and a short range SHORAD for the Army and short range lock on after launch AAM for the air force so it would be ideal as a small light short range anti missile missile that should be able to be carried in significant numbers due to its small size and design from the outset to be carried internally in a weapon bay or vertical launch tube.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    max steel
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2980
    Points : 3014
    Join date : 2015-02-12
    Location : South Pole

    Re: Meteor vs RVV-BD Long Range AAM

    Post  max steel on Thu May 26, 2016 6:14 pm

    GarryB wrote:Well you are talking about an Air to Air missile ......

    Are you talking about SACM or R-77 ?

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15439
    Points : 16146
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Meteor vs RVV-BD Long Range AAM

    Post  GarryB on Fri May 27, 2016 7:33 am

    Your question was:
    How difficult is to intercept and air-air missile with another air-air missile.

    That is what I was replying to.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Werewolf
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5390
    Points : 5639
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: Meteor vs RVV-BD Long Range AAM

    Post  Werewolf on Fri May 27, 2016 11:09 am

    Head on head engagement i would say you have very good chances of intercepting an ATAM with an ATAM especially if it is superior. Question is if you can aquire a lockon with the profile of the enemy missile hiding its own exhaust with its body, but should be not that hard. Chinese have tested it for Z-10 head on head engagements with their TY-90 helicopterborne short ranged ATAM.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15439
    Points : 16146
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Meteor vs RVV-BD Long Range AAM

    Post  GarryB on Sat May 28, 2016 10:32 am

    What is an ATAM?

    Question is if you can aquire a lockon with the profile of the enemy missile hiding its own exhaust with its body, but should be not that hard.

    For a radar guided missile it would be no problem getting a lock and even older IR guided missiles would be able to lock head on as the nose of the incoming missile will be friction heated and of course in the boost phase will have a large heat plume from the rocket motor.

    Modern IIR seeker missiles would have little problem too for the same reasons as above.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Sponsored content

    Re: Meteor vs RVV-BD Long Range AAM

    Post  Sponsored content Today at 6:56 pm


      Current date/time is Fri Dec 02, 2016 6:56 pm