Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Share
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10641
    Points : 11118
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  George1 on Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:09 pm

    More than 30 short range Eleron-3 & Orlan-10 UAVs have been delivered to the West. Military District(ZVO) this year

    https://ria.ru/defense_safety/20171028/1507736168.html


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov


    par far

    Posts : 1472
    Points : 1631
    Join date : 2014-06-26

    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  par far on Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:46 pm

    I came across this article and countries are developing unmanned cargo drones, does Russia have a program like this? These unmanned cargo drones, would be very nice for Russia, it can take or drop supplies in the arctic or in remote locations.


    http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2117438/drone-could-deliver-cargo-islets-south-china-sea-makes



    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16688
    Points : 17296
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:44 am

    The Mi-38 is designed to be operated like a drone, but I have read about special transport drones to fly in food and water and ammo to remote locations like a special forces team in the mountains.

    The drone itself has a glide module to fly the last few kms silently with the payload...


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 1652
    Points : 1692
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:52 pm

    GarryB wrote:The Mi-38 is designed to be operated like a drone, but I have read about special transport drones to fly in food and water and ammo to remote locations like a special forces team in the mountains.

    The drone itself has a glide module to fly the last few kms silently with the payload...

    powered by an electric motor can fly silently as well Smile
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 5574
    Points : 5678
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:09 am

    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16688
    Points : 17296
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:02 am


    powered by an electric motor can fly silently as well

    Deep behind enemy lines you want a fast UAV so normal fuelled motor with module that glides down to specific location is cheaper and faster without expensive heavy batteries.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    Cyberspec

    Posts : 2039
    Points : 2204
    Join date : 2011-08-08
    Location : Terra Australis

    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:11 am

    Russia and the UAV Revival by Piotr Butowski
    (originaly at MyCity Military Forum by Itcolonel)

    Some interesting info, such as...

    - there's been a 10 foldincrease in UAV's since 2012
    - A Forpost version is planned with side looking radar..



    avatar
    Project Canada

    Posts : 625
    Points : 630
    Join date : 2015-07-20
    Age : 29
    Location : Canada

    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  Project Canada on Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:32 am

    When are we going to see a fully operational Russian MALE drone in service? Altius-M has been in development for more than a decade.

    Forpost is good but cannot be counted as Russian since its really just a license produced Israeli drone
    avatar
    Cyberspec

    Posts : 2039
    Points : 2204
    Join date : 2011-08-08
    Location : Terra Australis

    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:17 am

    Project Canada wrote:When are we going to see a fully operational Russian MALE drone in service? Altius-M has been in development for more than a decade.

    Forpost is good but cannot be counted as Russian since its really just a license produced Israeli drone

    'Soon' according to Shoigu...my guess is that it will be the armed version of Orion which was apparently shown at MAKS 2017.

    Lot of the systems on Forpost are Russian. In the article posted above, it says they receive kits from Israel for a civilian version after which Russian systems such as datalinks, nav equipment and so on are added on
    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 1652
    Points : 1692
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:51 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    powered by an electric motor can fly silently as well

    Deep behind enemy lines you want a fast UAV so normal fuelled motor with module that glides down to specific location is cheaper and faster without expensive heavy batteries.



    Ekhm 120km/h of Orion is not particularly fast. And its combustion engine which on low altitude one can hear pretty well. . If something flies with 800 km/h then is unlikely a glider. Besides drones dont have to be purely electric. Can be hybrid too.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16688
    Points : 17296
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  GarryB on Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:04 am

    The drone I was referring to is to supply special forces deep behind enemy lines. It is a modular system with a part that carries a glide module that holds the ammo and fuel and water and whatever else the forward deployed unit requires. the glide module might be released 10km away from the position of the troops it is supplying while the glide module delivers the cargo.

    If its last portion of flight is a silent glide then why would it need to be battery powered?

    I never mentioned any design name or maker name so what are you talking about?

    A drone used to deliver supplies to forward deployed troops covertly is hardly going to fly at low level all the way with some noisy engine to give away their position...

    Troops somewhere like Afghanistan half way up a mountain watching an enemy base and transmitting information is not going to appreciate some noisy slow drone flying in and landing next to them and giving away their position.

    On the other hand a drone that flys at high altitude and releases a glider that flys in an lands directly on their position in the middle of the night with no engine noise would be a useful way to resupply a unit.

    They might deliver water or ammo or food or they might deliver a heavy calibre rifle or ATGM to deal with a threat that was not previously anticipated, or could not be carried up the mountain they are on covertly.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 5574
    Points : 5678
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:21 pm


    MiG is working on strike drones between 1 and 15 ton weight

    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4726539

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2949903.html
    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 1652
    Points : 1692
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:23 am

    GarryB wrote:The drone I was referring to is to supply special forces deep behind enemy lines. It is a modular system with a part that carries a glide module that holds the ammo and fuel and water and whatever else the forward deployed unit requires. the glide module might be released 10km away from the position of the troops it is supplying while the glide module delivers the cargo.

    If its last portion of flight is a silent glide then why would it need to be battery powered?

    Whatever has engine flies in more controllable way. Can make ups downs, make second round in landing place and has chance to return with anything if needed.  



    GarryB wrote:
    I never mentioned any design name or maker name so what are you talking about?


    But I did, the real one in Russian AF called Orion.




    GarryB wrote:
    A drone used to deliver supplies to forward deployed troops covertly is hardly going to fly at low level all the way with some noisy engine to give away their position...

    Troops somewhere like Afghanistan half way up a mountain watching an enemy base and transmitting information is not going to appreciate some noisy slow drone flying in and landing next to them and giving away their position.

    On the other hand a drone that flys at high altitude and releases a glider that flys in an lands directly on their position in the middle of the night with no engine noise would be a useful way to resupply a unit.


    Electrical motor lets you fly low and virtually noiseless. Unlike high flying drone it is harder to spot on couple of meters above ground.



    GarryB wrote:

    They might deliver water or ammo or food or they might deliver a heavy calibre rifle or ATGM to deal with a threat that was not previously anticipated, or could not be carried up the mountain they are on covertly.

    this is not the question of glider ot powered but payload and concept of use right?
    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 1652
    Points : 1692
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:33 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    MiG is working on strike drones between 1 and 15 ton weight

    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4726539

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2949903.html


    Most important part:

    DUBAI, November 14th. / TASS /. The Russian Aircraft Corporation (RAC) MiG is working to create shock and reconnaissance drones weighing from 1 to 15 tons, their prototypes will appear in the coming years Laughing Laughing Laughing . This was announced on Tuesday by the official representative of the corporation Anastasia Kravchenko at the exhibition Dubai Airshow 2017.
    "These are reconnaissance and strike targets, different classes for different tasks," she said, answering the relevant question.
    Kravchenko added that prototype drones will be created "in the coming years." These devices will be in three categories - from one ton to five, from five to ten and from ten to fifteen.

    According to her, domestic engines are being developed for all classes of unmanned vehicles.


    Подробнее на ТАСС:
    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4726539

    Yup, couple of yearscso 2? 5? 10? 15?

    But good that at least those are not equipped with GE engines like MS-21 Smile
    avatar
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 1487
    Points : 1487
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:39 am

    MiG is jumping to the game rather late. Altius and Orion will end up filling the roll, and Irkutsk can have one rolled out much sooner. Engine wise is no different either as they are using Russian engines for the new drones anyway.

    As for the MS-21, well, technically the PD-14 engine was given boost for it, as the MS-21 is to be given 2 kinds of engines, PD-14 and GE. One of Russia's carriers is the first customer for MS-21 with PD-14.
    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 1652
    Points : 1692
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:34 am

    miketheterrible wrote:MiG is jumping to the game rather late.  Altius and Orion will end up filling the roll, and Irkutsk can have one rolled out much sooner.  

    I think thet MiG/Sukhoi are working on jet drones so different class then Orion & CO

    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16688
    Points : 17296
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  GarryB on Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:26 am

    Whatever has engine flies in more controllable way. Can make ups downs, make second round in landing place and has chance to return with anything if needed.

    An electric engine would need batteries and would be very slow and lack range.

    It would not land as much as crash in a controlled way... like a parachute drop of supplies which is what it really is.

    If you want it to return send a helicopter.

    Electrical motor lets you fly low and virtually noiseless.

    And really slowly over relatively short range and not with a particularly heavy payload.

    Unlike high flying drone it is harder to spot on couple of meters above ground.

    It wont get within 20km of the supply position so there is little chance of it being seen or heard.

    this is not the question of glider ot powered but payload and concept of use right?

    It is about supporting a covert position in a way that makes it remain covert deep behind enemy lines.

    A low flying slow battery powered UAV is just too slow and vulnerable. A higher flying faster drone that releases its payload 10-20km away from the covert position that can glide to the location in the dark is the best option.

    Altius and Orion will end up filling the roll, and Irkutsk can have one rolled out much sooner.

    They are going to end up with hundreds of different UAVs and UCAVs in different weight classes from hand held to bigger than their heavy recon planes like the M17. Each service is going to need some of very different types and even civilian forces in Russia will need plenty too... there is plenty of scope for lots of makers to get involved here.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Azi

    Posts : 144
    Points : 146
    Join date : 2016-04-05

    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  Azi on Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:18 pm

    Electrical motor for UAV makes sense only with high span of wings and high efficient solar cells on it. So its possible to let a drone fly for weeks without landing. Only capacitors or batteries without solar cells would make the UAV too heavy. Simply google pictures for "solar UAV".

    By the way...
    High efficiency solar cells are existing, they are be used on satellites, but they are expensive, really expensive. A whole fleet of solar UAVs with high efficient solar cells would be expensive. With normal solar cells the span would be higher, nearly double.

    A electric UAV makes sense for long time observation, I doubt it would be usefull for heavy warfare zone.
    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 1652
    Points : 1692
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy Yesterday at 2:14 am

    Azi wrote:Electrical motor for UAV makes sense only with high span of wings and high efficient solar cells on it. So its possible to let a drone fly for weeks without landing. Only capacitors or batteries without solar cells would make the UAV too heavy. Simply google pictures for "solar UAV".


    GarryB wrote:
    An electric engine would need batteries and would be very slow and lack range.

    +

    And really slowly over relatively short range and not with a particularly heavy payload.








    Oh really? Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil  solar batteries or chemical ones is just abput desnity of enrgy right? then hybrig seems to be a good solution. Silent part can be flown on batteries for example.  Razz  Razz  Razz
    http://news.mit.edu/2017/hybrid-drones-carry-heavier-payloads-greater-distances-0804


    []
    Over the past several years, Top Flight has continued to develop major innovations for the microscale hybrid engine concept, called a “digital gearbox.” Engines for vertical takeoff aircraft, such as helicopters, are complex and difficult to manage, consisting of thousands of mechanical parts. Top Flight’s digital gearbox behaves like those systems but uses electricity to control everything. Gasoline runs to a small generator, creating electric power, which the digital gearbox controls and sends in pulses to the electric motors and electronics. This makes the powering flight much simpler and more efficient, Phan says.
    “By pulsing the electricity to the motors, we can control the amount of torque and revolutions per minute of the motor,” Phan says. “We can … achieve the same benefits as a traditional mechanical transmission system, but it’s much more efficient, cost-effective, and scalable.”

    mmediate applications for Top Flight’s drone capabilities may include inspecting infrastructure in remote areas. Some U.S. utilities companies are already tasking drones with inspecting power lines and pipelines that go without routine inspection due to their remote locations. Top Flight’s drones could greatly increase the range of those drones while reducing costs and improving worker safety. They could also help pre- and post-disaster recovery efforts by surveying damage to the networks after natural disasters.
    As for delivery drones, Phan says Top Flight can increase the overall value related to increased range. Amazon, Google, UPS, and other large international firms are developing drone-based solutions that can deliver packages to consumer doorsteps. But they’re restricted to carrying, say, a single textbook and maybe 30 minutes of battery life, limiting their range.
    “By increasing the range by an order of magnitude, you can capture 100 times more value, due to the increased area coverage, compared to traditional battery drone systems,” Phan says. “[Delivery drones] are not just a gimmick. They’re very feasible soon.”
    Top Flight’s drones also hold promise for improved military missions, Phan says. A flock of 1,000 small drones could be deployed for longer times to gather reconnaissance data at a cost similar that of a single large military aircraft.
    When Top Flight completes its 100-kilowatt hybrid electric engine, that same concept could also be used to haul, say, barrels of oil, divided into smaller amounts for military convoys in dangerous zones. Generally, this type of shipping is expensive and hazardous due to transportation costs and various risks on the road. “Instead of carrying really big loads in the tons, you use many drones to carry small loads in the 100-kilogram increments, like a pack of mules,” Phan says.
    Currently, Top Flight uses an internal combustion engine in its microscale hybrid power systems. Moving forward, the company aims to hybridize gas turbine engines, which are used to power jets and helicopters. “Heat and vibration issues will be magnified, but at the same time they’re much more powerful and almost 100 percent more energy efficient than comparably-sized internal combustion engines,” Phan says. “That’s our next challenge.”


    []


    Sponsored content

    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:36 pm