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    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

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    GarryB

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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  GarryB on Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:45 pm

    High power would allow a very heavy aircraft to get airborne... very heavy with fuel no doubt.

    In flight it would use rather low throttle settings for low speed cruising... perhaps even feathering one prop and only running one engine... which would also reduce noise and IR signature...


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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:04 am

    Rmf wrote:two 500 hp engines and endurance of 48 hours???  no wayy. how much fuel does it cary.! just doesnt add up.

    Actually flying at a very high altitude and a very low subsonic speed with prop engines could make it work. Flying at something like 210 km/h over a span of 48 hours will get you just over 10,000 km in range.
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    Rmf

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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  Rmf on Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:32 pm

    its not that heavy , it is 5t class.
    propeller driven reaper is 4,8 tonns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Atomics_MQ-9_Reaper and 14 hours endurance , and it has 1 engine instead of fuel thirsty 2.
    this thing does have longer wingspan 28m vs 20m.
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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:09 am

    If you want to fly high then you need thrust.

    And what is this thirsty two engine crap?

    Fuel consumption has more to do with power setting than number of engines... fuel consumption is energy(thrust) generated per gramme of fuel it does not matter if that energy is coming from one engine or ten. High power settings means more fuel burned per second... one engine on its own has a much higher power setting than two engines doing the same job... otherwise twin engined aircraft would not exist.


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    Rmf

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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  Rmf on Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:25 pm

    those 2 engine consume 210 gr of fuel per kw/h each , 420 gr combined , while garret turboprop in reaper consumes 320 gr/kw/h.
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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  GarryB on Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:57 am

    those 2 engine consume 210 gr of fuel per kw/h each , 420 gr combined , while garret turboprop in reaper consumes 320 gr/kw/h.

    Duh....

    Those two engines burning 210 grammes of fuel per kw/h does not double the fuel consumption.

    If the UAV needs 150kw/h to cruise at normal speed then one engine will generate 75kw/h and the other will generate 75kw/h so each engine will be burning 210 x 75 grammes per hour of fuel each... About 15.75 litres of fuel an hour each engine so two engines running will burn 31.5 litres of fuel an hour.

    The Garret burns 320 grammes of fuel per kw per hour so generating 150kws for an hour means it burns 48 litres of fuel per hour...

    Of course it is not actually as simple as that because at the higher thrust settings an engine tends to be less efficient and burn more fuel at higher thrust settings so a two engine arrangement is often even more efficient...

    Of course two engines also adds mass and complication in two fuel systems and two engine mounts but it also adds redundancy which makes things safer.

    The two wing mounts also often means more frontal area and therefore more drag, but the extra thrust margin usually makes up for that at takeoff and at high altitude cruise in the lower drag thinner air it is less important than the increased thrust to hold speed.


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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  Rmf on Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:11 pm

    that reaper turboprop is in fuselage so it makes no drag but it takes volume inside which then cant store fuel. i guess diesel have good efficiency at 20-30% cruise power  unlike gas turbine so thats the difference.
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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  GarryB on Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:09 am

    The flight profile will have even more impact on flight speed and range performance... flying low and fast will always burn more fuel than high and cruising speed.


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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  theking950 on Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:59 am

    https://www.aviaport.ru/digest/2017/03/17/428085.html
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:02 am


    Well look who finally showed up.... Cool

    Altus UAV
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    Project Canada

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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  Project Canada on Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:44 am

    Its about time! 

    I wish they release a video footage  russia
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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  GarryB on Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:16 am

    Interesting how short the aircraft body is compared with its enormous wingspan.

    Obviously intended for long flights at high altitudes.

    Will be interesting to see what armaments it might end up carrying.

    Would also be interesting to see if they put targeting pods in underwing positions to allow target marking and data collection to be expanded.

    Such a platform flying over a point on the battlefield with two or four targeting pods allowing four separate specialists scan for and mark targets of interest at one time would allow local artillery firing laser guided shells to rapidly take out enemy positions in relative safety.


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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  ATLASCUB on Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:31 am

    Dat wingspan Cool
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  TheArmenian on Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:38 am

    Definitely high altitude and long endurance.
    Perhaps with maritime applications.

    Don't think it is a UCAV. Although in theory it can drop Precision Guided bombs from high altitude.
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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:05 pm


    I agree, it's strategic reconnaissance type most likely geared towards naval and arctic application, hence 2 props instead 1 or 2 jets.

    And any tech from targeting pods will probably be integrated into the final product's body from the get go.

    Smaller stuff like Orion will be used as UCAVs.
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    Militarov

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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  Militarov on Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:16 pm

    While strategic recoinance might be its primary role i find it very stupid not to exploit its advantages of long rage (we hope so) and high payload cappacity (we hope so) for strike roles too. So i sort of expect to see it being used as UCAV, if not as primary then as secondary role in times of need, with some maybe removable hardpoints.

    When its about optronics package i was always fan of auxilary pods as you can very fast remove them, place something else, plug-and-play in case of malfunction etc, etc. Further modifications and modernisations are also quite alot easier that way. Naturally that works only with platforms of certain size that can deal with external payload.
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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:55 pm

    Militarov wrote:While strategic recoinance might be its primary role i find it very stupid not to exploit its advantages of long rage (we hope so) and high payload cappacity (we hope so) for strike roles too. So i sort of expect to see it being used as UCAV, if not as primary then as secondary role in times of need, with some maybe removable hardpoints.

    When its about optronics package i was always fan of auxilary pods as you can very fast remove them, place something else, plug-and-play in case of malfunction etc, etc. Further modifications and modernisations are also quite alot easier that way. Naturally that works only with platforms of certain size that can deal with external payload.

    Well putting stuff on is easy if you have space and this thing definitely has it. USAF Global Hawk has no weapons so it would hardly be unusual.

    Here is tech data:

    Take-off weight of approx. 5 t, length 11.6 m, wingspan 28.5 m, approx. 2 tons, the maximum speed is unknown, the range is up to 10000km, the ceiling is up to 15000m, the maximum flight duration is up to 48h.

    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/92527/

    Some call it Altus other call it Altair. So which is it?
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    Militarov

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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  Militarov on Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:47 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Militarov wrote:While strategic recoinance might be its primary role i find it very stupid not to exploit its advantages of long rage (we hope so) and high payload cappacity (we hope so) for strike roles too. So i sort of expect to see it being used as UCAV, if not as primary then as secondary role in times of need, with some maybe removable hardpoints.

    When its about optronics package i was always fan of auxilary pods as you can very fast remove them, place something else, plug-and-play in case of malfunction etc, etc. Further modifications and modernisations are also quite alot easier that way. Naturally that works only with platforms of certain size that can deal with external payload.

    Well putting stuff on is easy if you have space and this thing definitely has it. USAF Global Hawk has no weapons so it would hardly be unusual.

    Here is tech data:

    Take-off weight of approx. 5 t, length 11.6 m, wingspan 28.5 m, approx. 2 tons, the maximum speed is unknown, the range is up to 10000km, the ceiling is up to 15000m, the maximum flight duration is up to 48h.

    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/92527/

    Some call it Altus other call it Altair. So which is it?

    Armed global hawk was proposed but rejected due to availability of other platforms in US.

    Apparently both names are legit.
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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:08 am

    Even if it does not carry weapons itself, its ability to fly at above 12km altitude for long periods means it can loiter over a front line all day looking for targets.

    Of course it will have its own optronics package but bolting 2 or 4 targeting pods under the wings means potentially 2 or 4 extra operators able to individually mark targets independently.

    For troops on the ground that means up to 5 targets can be marked at one time with laser beams for precise attack by artillery or lower flying UCAVs that can fire and move without worrying about marking the target or observing the results of the attack.

    The high flying UAV can find and mark targets and determine the success or otherwise of each attack.

    Laser guided weapons can be fired ballistically into the front line... Gran and Kitolov and even the guided 240mm mortar rounds and guided 152mm Krasnopol and guided 203mm rounds could be used with a target marker invulnerable to normal ground fire.

    Front line units could use real time imagery of the battlefield from the UAV with up to 5 independent channels available to look where they want when they want it... the video beamed into every tank and IFV and helo nearby.

    Any weight for weapons could be replaced by fuel on the UAV to extend range... 4 targeting pods could be joined by 2 large external fuel tanks to add persistence. Two UAVs could provide, say 36 hours of coverage each, meaning a rotation with the two aircraft providing 72 hours coverage at a time.

    36 hours on and then return to base and refuel and then 36 hours later back on duty.

    For the troops on the ground that means 24/7 coverage.


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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  George1 on Wed May 03, 2017 11:06 pm

    Russian UAVs in Syria

    During the war with Georgia in 2008, the Russian forces had only a few UAV systems in service; all of them were cumbersome, primitive, and obsolete. During the post-war analysis, their performance was deemed totally inadequate because they failed to meet modern technical requirements. As part of the sweeping military reforms launched shortly after the conflict, the existing drones were retired, and the MoD placed orders for hundreds of new ones. As of late 2015 (i.e. when Russia was already involved in Syria), its Armed Forces operated a total of 1,720 UAVs. In 2016, they received an additional 105 UAV complexes with 260 individual drones.


    Russian UAV "Eleron-3SV", crashed in Syria because of technical problems, Latakia, 07.20.2015 (c)

    As of the spring of 2016, Russia had 30 UAV complexes (70 individual drones) deployed in Syria. In December 2016 it was reported that another three complexes (consisting of six to nine drones) had been brought to Syria to monitor compliance with the ceasefire agreed between the government and the rebels.

    The Russian UAV fleet deployed in Syria included systems operated by the UAV companies of brigade and division-level Army units. Additionally, Russia deployed several Orlan-10 and Forpost drones (the latter being the Russian version of the Searcher Mk II drone developed by Israel’s IAI) that are operated by Navy units established in 2013. The involvement of the Navy is easily explained by the fact that it operated six or the 10 Forpost complexes (three drones per complex) that the Russian forces had at the time, and the Forpost is the only Russian drone that approaches the capability of the MALE (medium altitude, long endurance) class of UAVs. All the remaining Russian drones (almost 2,000 of them, as of the time of writing) have a take-off weight of no more than 30kg, and are vastly inferior to the Forpost in terms of the payload.

    The joint command of the Russian forces in Syria has managed to ensure proper coordination between the use of drones operated by the Army and the Navy. For example, the naval drones were used to support operations by the Russian Air Force and the Russian and allied land forces in Syria (in addition to the Navy’s own operations).

    Interestingly, there have been few, if any reports from Syria about the use of Russia’s lightest short-range tactical UAVs, which are used by troops at or near the front line. This does not mean that the Russian forces completely lack such drones – it rather confirms that the use of the Russian land forces in Syria remains limited.

    Apart from the Forpost, the Russian UAV model that has seen the most action in Syria is the Orlan-10. Such a conclusion is based on the available photo imagery and video footage from Syria; videos from UAV cameras released by the Russian MoD; and from reports on the Russian losses in Syria. The widespread use of the Orlan-10 is unsurprising because it makes up about a third of the entire Russian UAV fleet.

    In fact, the Orlan-10 specifications largely determine the reconnaissance capability of the Russian forces in Syria. These specifications aren’t too bad, given the system’s take-off weight of just 18kg. The drone can carry up to 5kg of payload such as stabilized day- and night-vision cameras and electronic warfare devices. Even a small drone can transmit live video from up to 120km away, and stay aloft for 14 hours at an altitude of up to 5,000 meters. The effective range of video transmission can be increased further by using another Orlan-10 as an airborne relay station. The drone can also record footage up to 600km from the ground control station in the offline mode.

    The drone’s propulsion unit is an internal combustion engine that takes regular gas. It takes off using a simple collapsible catapult, and lands with the help of a parachute, so it does not need a landing strip and can be operated from pretty much anywhere. When dismantled and packed up for transportation, the entire drone, along with its team of operators, can all fit into a single car. As a result, the Orlan-10 is affordable and cheap to operate. A set that includes two drones, the ground control station, the payload, the various accessories, and the light vehicle that carries it all costs the Russian MoD 35m roubles (600,000 dollars), so it has been procured and supplied to the Russian forces in large numbers, and relatively quickly.

    The availability of numerous drones with a range of over 100km has enabled the Russian forces in Syria to deploy them in every part of the country where the government is fighting the ISIS forces and other rebels. There have often been several Russian drones aloft at the same time.

    For example, during the first Russian missile strike using Kalibr cruise missiles launched from RNS Rostov-on-Don (a Project 06363 large diesel-electric submarine) on December 8, 2015, UAVs simultaneously observed the launch of four missiles from a submerged position, part of their flight to targets, and all three of the targets. That required the simultaneous use of at least four or five drones.

    The primary roles in which Russian drones are used in Syria include reconnoitering targets for airstrikes, assessing the results of those strikes, and serving as airborne spotters for the Syrian artillery. In fact, artillery spotting is one of the main roles in which drones are used across the Russian armed forces. There are numerous videos of barrel and rocket artillery strikes in Syria recorded from UAVs.

    The Soviet Army had practically no proper means of real-time aerial artillery spotting. Russia had no such means at all, until modern UAVs arrived. At this stage, however, the Russian forces have aerial spotting capability for all types of artillery, including the Smerch long-range MLR systems, and for sub-strategic missiles. The Orlan-10 and Forpost software is well-suited for that role, and both drones can be integrated with automated artillery fire control systems. Lighter UAVs are less capable, and can be used mostly for mortar spotting.

    The Russian Army still remains heavily reliant on artillery, so the use of drones can substantially augment its firepower. We do not know whether UAVs have been used for target designation with guided artillery projectiles, but Russian programs to develop that capability have already reached the trial phase.

    The vast majority of the missions involving the heavier Forpost drones, which are equipped with powerful optics, were to observe and monitor strikes against top-priority targets from medium altitudes and distances, thereby remaining undetected by the enemy. The same usage scenario is not always possible with the lighter drones, which have to approach the target more closely for effective surveillance.

    Other missions included collecting aerial imagery and 3D-mapping in support of humanitarian convoys and S&R operations. For example, when the wreckage of the Russian Su-24M2 bomber shot down by a Turkish fighter jet fell to earth in a mountainous area near the Turkish border, the surviving member of the crew was quickly located with the help of an Orlan-10 drone, making it possible to extract him from rebel-held territory. The crew that piloted the drone later received medals for their crucial role in the S&R operation.

    The Russian UAVs deployed in Syria were initially stationed at the Khmeimim airbase in Latakia Province. As the scope of the Russian involvement grew, some of them were moved to other bases across the country. The combined units that operate the Forposts require a runway, so they are usually stationed at airfields. During the offensive to retake eastern Aleppo from the rebels in August 2016, one of those units was deployed at Aleppo international airport. Another Russian unit operating UAVs was stationed at the T-4 airbase near Palmyra; its drones were used against ISIS. The deployment of drones near the front line has enabled the Russian forces to launch missions more quickly and to increase the drones’ airborne time in the target area.

    On the whole, the use of Russian reconnaissance drones in Syria has been judged a success. Nevertheless, the campaign has highlighted one critical flaw: the Russian forces don’t have any attack drones – unlike not only the U.S.-led coalition, but also the Israelis, the Iranians, and the Turks, who all have medium-class attack drones in the Syrian theater. Even the ISIS terrorists have cobbled together ultralight attack drones, used as bombers, from off-the-shelf components.

    Russian engineers are currently experimenting with the use of remotely controlled containers attached to the Orlan-10 drones; if necessary, these can be used for weapons delivery. But the maximum payload of the Orlan-10 is only 5kg, so these drones are ill-suited for such roles. We don’t have any reliable information as to whether these experimental prototypes have been used by the Russian forces in Syria.

    The Russian MoD commissioned the development of medium and heavy UAVs back in 2011, but these programs are still far from fruition. Work is under way to develop drones with a take-off weight of 1-2 metric tonnes and 5 tonnes. Their prototypes have already begun flight testing, but without any weapons payloads. The Russian defense industry is also developing a 20-tonne UAV, but that program is making even slower progress and has not even reached the flight testing phase.

    It can be hoped that the experience gained in Syria with reconnaissance drones will help the Russian forces to make better use of attack UAVs once they have entered production. These UAVs will be integrated with the already existing extensive infrastructure for this type of weaponry, enabling Russia to narrow the gap in UAV technology with the world’s leading military powers.

    Like all the other users of military drones, the Russian government was happy do discover that the loss of these drones on the battlefield doesn’t make headlines or cause any problems with public opinion. The Russian forces are known to have lost at least 10 UAVs during the campaign in Syria – but that has gone almost unnoticed in Russia itself. Besides, the drones are easily replaced; they are only a part of the larger complex that enables their operation.

    The first Russian drone was lost in Syria on July 20, 2015, two months before the official launch of the Russian campaign there. It was an Eleron-3SV, operated by the Army; the drone was shot down in a mountainous area in Latakia. The Eleron-3SV is a light tactical UAV. Used by units deployed on the front line, it has a maximum range of 15km. It is not clear whether the drone shot down in Latakia was operated by a Russian crew; it may have been supplied to the Syrian forces. So far, however, there have been no reports about any Russian drones being supplied to Syrian government troops or their allies.

    At about the same time, the Russian forces lost another drone in Syria. Its specific model is unknown, but judging from the payload it was carrying, the drone was being used for 3D mapping of the area, perhaps in preparation for future airstrikes.

    A similar Russian drone was shot down by the Turkish Air Force as it strayed into Turkish airspace from Latakia Province on October 16, 2015, which is after the official launch of the Russian campaign. Even though the UAV had the same livery and side marks as other Russian military drones, we have been unable to identify its model; it may have been a specialized model or an experimental prototype.

    Another piece of evidence pointing to the use of experimental UAVs in Syria is several reports suggesting that one of the Russian drones deployed in that country uses hydrogen fuel. The unit is merely a prototype and is not yet ready for entry into service. Nevertheless, it is unlikely that it would have been field-tested in Syria if the MoD had not shown interest. Also, in October 2016 rebel forces found a Russian Ptero drone in Latakia province. The unit seemed to have emergency-landed itself and did not appear damaged. The Ptero is not officially in service with the Russian armed forces; it is a commercially-available drone used for aerial imaging.

    All the other Russian drones lost in Syria are well-known reconnaissance models widely used by the Russian forces. In most cases, the lost units showed no signs of combat damage, i.e. holes torn by bullets or shrapnel. Some of them were damaged by impact with the ground, while others appeared completely undamaged. This suggests that many of the lost drones had suffered a mechanical failure (usually problems with the engine or avionics). Most of the Orlan-10 units lost in Syria had obvious signs of wear and field repairs, pointing to their heavy use. It is known that some of them were many times over their nominal lifespan of 100 flights.



    UAVs remain a relatively new and untried technology for the Russian armed forces. Their deliveries in large numbers began as recently as 2013-2014. The Russian campaign in Syria, which has been ongoing for more than 18 months, has demonstrated that this military technology is critically important. Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoygu has described UAVs as “indispensable in modern conflicts”.

    The experience earned in Syria may facilitate the development of the second generation of Russian reconnaissance drones and spur the arrival of attack drones, from light tactical models to heavy units weighing up to 20 tonnes. The supplier of the Forpost has already announced an updated version with improved characteristics and a greater degree of localization. This should end the company’s dependence on components imported from Israel and enable it to increase output. Additionally, the MoD is currently selecting new models to plug the gap between the Forpost, which has a take-off weight of 450kg, and the 18-30kg tactical drones.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2586817.html


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    TheArmenian

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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  TheArmenian on Wed May 17, 2017 10:46 pm

    Altius is shown in Kazan



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    PapaDragon

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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu May 18, 2017 12:38 am


    So this comes in two sizes?

    Also, Arctic marking.
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    Book.

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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  Book. on Thu May 18, 2017 7:34 am

    Russia Aero UAV Engine:
    [ROTAX 912, 914 Rival]
    Foto: Vitaly Kuzmin

    Specs:
    45-90 HP
    110-120 Hp
    250-300 HP



    Agat B1 PD-1400


    Agat B ADF-110/120


    Agat D ADF-250/300

    Drone motor Dev.
    https://missiles2go.ru/2015/12/04/rotax-ru/
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    George1

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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  George1 on Fri May 19, 2017 2:38 am

    The second prototype of the heavy unmanned aerial vehicle "Altair"



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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu May 25, 2017 1:00 pm


    Orion UAV

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2627809.html

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