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    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

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    GarryB
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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:36 am

    Need to be clear here... this article does no specify who is actually buying these UAVs... it mentions border patrol and homeland security which suggests these drones are being bought for FSB and MVD forces.

    I rather suspect these purchases will be to get something into service and use quickly while Russian UAV makers perfect their products and get them to production ready status.

    Also these are older model Israeli drones, which the Army and Air Forces have already evaluated to work out where to set the bar.

    Murmurs recently suggest they are working on a range of new Russian UAVs in a wide range of sizes and weights and classes including armed models which will likely be made for the Russian military forces before being released to other organisations like FSB and border patrol.

    The article was very specific about models and prices, but very vague about who the actual customers might be... some of these systems might be being purchased by Russia on behalf of countries like South Ossetia and Abkhazia, and indeed for Kazakhstan and the other Stans between Russia and Afghanistan to improve border control.


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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  medo on Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:29 pm

    It's interesting MVD abd FSB will buy Israeli UAVs, while they use similar UAVs from Zala, Orlan, Eniks, etc. Is the problem in production speed, that domestic producers could not produce them fast enough?

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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:11 am

    I suspect the Israeli UAVs fill a gap that the Russian makers have yet to fill.

    I remember criticisms of Russian UAVs was lack of speed and range and altitude and they are too noisy and their sensors are not up to scratch.

    They have improved the cameras and the stabilisation systems, but as I said many times the Israelis have spent large amounts of money on these things and developed and perfected them over decades, the Russians have had UAVs, though generally for very specific roles like the Pchelka artillery spotter or the Reis long range UAV recon drone.

    The Russian military has been looking but not spending for 2 decades... and only since 2008 have they actually been serious about actually spending money.

    They apparently squandered a large sum of money on a few companies that didn't deliver and there could be a bit of a backlash in that regard, but for the most part up until 2008 the Russian companies that even bothered to put up prototypes at airshows wouldn't have the production capacity to make hundreds and supply them to the military with full documentation and ground support equipment without funding.

    With no money invested the Russian companies couldn't afford expensive but capable high resolution high magnification cameras and thermal imagers and stabilisation systems and navigation systems to allow them to operate autonomously.

    Most people think that UAVs are like model planes but they are not. They are aircraft that have navigation systems that enable them to fly automatically to a target area, that can be rerouted to areas of interest to orbit over things, and can be flown manually, but most of the time they will actually operate autonomously. The communications equipment needs live video with navigation overlay to show where the aircraft is and what it can see and needs to be robust and encrypted to the other guys can't see what you see.

    Most of the time the operators operate the cameras and sensor packages and only rarely will they actually manually fly the aircraft.


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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  medo on Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:59 pm

    Critics were made by MoD, not from MVD or FSB, which use quite a number of domestic UAVs like from Zala, which also improve its UAVs through years.

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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  Sujoy on Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:48 pm

    New generation firms in Russia have also joined UAV development for the state defense order, such as Tranzas from Saint Petersburg, which is known for the development of navigation systems, simulators and avionics. New generation aircraft are still undergoing tests, but we can already say that the army will receive drones.

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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:53 am

    Critics were made by MoD, not from MVD or FSB, which use quite a number of domestic UAVs like from Zala, which also improve its UAVs through years.

    This is quite true, but different UAV requirements are needed for different roles.

    Most of the criticism from the MoD came from the Air Force that wanted long range and high altitude... which means of course a fairly large and expensive aircraft with powerful high quality cameras and powerful datalinks etc etc.

    The previous FSB and MVD requirements have been short range close by observation around a patrol vehicle for instance.

    Now they are likely looking at longer range longer endurance UAVs that are not operated by front line troops but communicate with front line troops and pass live data to those forces.

    There are plenty of successful Russian UAVs in service with many organisations both government and private company used for checking pipelines or overhead wire networks for problems or damage... like fallen trees or leaking pipes or broken wires. Flying at medium to low altitudes will give a better view of the object of attention that has known coordinates.

    For border protection however you will need to be silent because if the subject knows they are being watched they will take steps to remain hidden. To maximise coverage a high flight altitude will give good coverage, and for the purposes of search and rescue being able to deliver support or rescue equipment could be a plus.

    I have read about a few Russian designs that have a built in glider component that can drop payloads of up to 25kgs of material with a glide capability... this would be very useful to supply troops behind enemy lines as it would be silent, and 25kgs of food and water and ammo would be useful, but in a survival situation if the UAV spots people on the ground in the middle of the desert or Siberia then dropping them food and water and a tent or cooking stove for hot food or just warmth could be very important. After dropping the rescue material with flares and tents or whatever the main UAV can circle the area till a ground team reaches the people or person in distress providing a communications relay source for ground searchers and directing them to the people needing rescue.


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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  Sujoy on Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:30 pm

    VOICE OF RUSSIA

    Russian engineers have come up with a one-of-a-kind drone, which can fly indoors.

    With no wings, tail and fuselage, it can glide freely between buildings, lift off vertically and land just about everywhere.

    Ideal for aerial reconnaissance, cargo hauling and street patrol, the aircraft is already being eyed by the Emergency Situations Ministry, police and the military.

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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  medo on Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:12 am

    They are for some time in the use with MVD and maybe with others too like ZALA 421-21.

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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  George1 on Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:59 am

    Russia Must Develop Unmanned Planes - Putin

    Russia must develop a range of military unmanned air vehicles (UAV) including strike and reconnaissance types, Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Thursday during a visit to an air force base.

    "We need a program for unmanned aircraft. Experts say this is a most important area of development in aviation," he said. "We need a range of all types, including automated strike aircraft, reconnaissance and other types," Putin said.

    Russia plans to spend around 400 billion rubles ($13 billion) on UAV development in the next eight years.


    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120614/174030686.html

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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:45 pm

    So even if the Mig SKATE didn't get funding they will be working on something perhaps similar to it.

    If they can make the UCAV LO it can operate at medium altitudes which maximises flight range and speed and keeps it safe from low altitude SAMs and trash fire.

    The F-117 was a subsonic bomber able to carry two laser guided bombs as a payload at a speed of about 800km/h and a flight range of 2,000km or so.

    The Mig Skat was supposed to be about the size of a Mig-29 in width but shorter in length and obviously LO, and with two internal bomb bays for guided bombs or even ARMs like the Kh-31 and a single engine it would have had a performance very similar to the F-117 but presumably at a fraction of the cost.

    Using satellite guided bombs the aircraft itself could be made fairly cheap and simple with most of the cost in the stealth design.

    In fact you could send a dozen into an unknown area armed only with ARMs following specific courses where you suspect the enemy has SAMs set up and just use them to orbit certain areas looking for threats just before sending in an Su-34 flight to attack targets. Any SAM sites becoming operational can be fired upon by the UCAVs as the Su-34s penetrate at low altitude at high speed.

    One of the UCAVs could be designed as a UAV without weapon bays, but with optical, IR and radar sensors to find targets for the UCAVs it will be operating with... hardly something new for the Russians... the Granits and Onyx Anti Ship missiles have been doing that sort of thing for decades...


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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  Sujoy on Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:00 pm

    Rogozin said in an interview with the Rossia-24 TV channel last Wednesday (Jun-13) that Russia and Israel are negotiating a joint project to build an unmanned aerial vehicle. Russia's aim according to Rogozin is to persuade Israel to start technological cooperation and to develop a product that will be used in both countries, and could also be sold to third countries.Technology would be attracted by localizing production on Russian territory.

    The Russian Defense Ministry is considering the possibility of purchasing from the Israeli company Aeronautics Defense Systems of three types of UAV control systems (eight each): Orbiter 2, Aerostar and Skystar,

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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:46 am

    Sounds to me like Putin is prepared to invest a lot of money into UAVs... a joint venture with Israel might be useful and save some time and money, but I rather doubt Israel will sell Russia anything highly secret or capable... which is perfectly understandible.

    Would be useful, but I would prefer to see Russian money invested in Russian companies and if they don't have the capability or experience... there is only one way they will get it... and that is from experience.


    I rather expect that the combination of laser guided ATAKA and Kornet-EM and now Krisantema with laser beam and SARH guidance together with the smaller and lighter Ugroza guidance kits for unguided rockets that they will be spoiled for choice for their light UCAVs.

    Together with Igla-S and probably satellite guided FAB-50 bombs... the latter perhaps carried internally and they have the capability to hit a range of point targets without too much expense.

    Certainly in terms of innovation, they have rocket launched UAVs based on Smerch rockets for use in target detection and damage assessment, they have large box shaped pods for helicopter launched UAVs, and they have UAVs that can drop glider payloads with weights of up to 25 kgs each to silently deliver weapons or water or food or ammo to forces on the battlefield. I rather suspect they have a wide range of ideas just waiting for an injection of money to realise.

    Most important is that all the branches of the Russian military seem to be keen to add UAVs to their forces to expand their capabilities. The war in Georgia was a wake up call I think... because before then there was a lot of talk about new purchases and spending but very little action.


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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  Sujoy on Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:47 pm

    Off Topic

    (Link Below)

    Satellite Pic of "Secret" Lockheed drone

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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  Sujoy on Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:18 pm

    Russia’s military hardware manufacturers have already started developing their own unmanned aerial vehicle similar to the Predator drones.At present, two Russian companies, Tranzas Company in St. Petersburg and Sokol Design Bureau in Kazan are engaged in developing Predator-class drones. As a reminder ,last year, they won the Russian Defence Ministry’s tender and are developing two vehicles. The payload of the first is about one ton. The second one is close to the American Predator and weighs about 4.5-5.0 tons.

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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  Sujoy on Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:16 pm

    RIA NOVOSTI

    Russian army will receive first Indigenous Strike UAV in 2014.St. Petersburg-based Tranzas company has been ordered to start flight tests of the strike drone in the beginning of 2014 in order to put it in service by the end of the same year

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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:49 pm

    Boy, that is a fairly tight schedule...

    Of course it might be a disposable cheap model rather than a super sophisticated stealthy model.

    It is funny how early on UAVs were supposed to be the answer because they were cheap and disposable, yet current HALE models cost more than lead in fighter trainer aircraft and are certainly not disposable.

    A cheap simple 1-2 ton aircraft with a decent range and half ton payload that could be mass produced would make a lot of sense.

    In fact the ideal propulsion would be the sort of jet engine as used on the V-1 doodlebug which is cheap and simple too.

    If it makes it back then refuel and rearm and reprogram, and if it doesn't... no big deal...


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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:56 pm

    Its a pity that the soviets didnt modify the Tu-123 or Tu-141 to have landing gear(or at least landing skids), replace the camera equipment with targeting sights and added 2 or 3 hardpoints for dumb bombs up to the FAB-250 and light missiles like the kh-23 and kh-25. Wouldve been a badass early UCAV that wouldve predated the americans flimsy predators.

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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  GarryB on Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:34 am

    Its a pity that the soviets didnt modify the Tu-123 or Tu-141 to have landing gear(or at least landing skids), replace the camera equipment with targeting sights and added 2 or 3 hardpoints for dumb bombs up to the FAB-250 and light missiles like the kh-23 and kh-25. Wouldve been a badass early UCAV that wouldve predated the americans flimsy predators.

    Actually it was the Tu-123/141 like UAVs that put the Russian AF off UAVs in general.

    These big Tupolevs were expensive, especially the 123 that was not recoverable. Its engine was similar to the engine in the Mig-25 and offered very high performance but the cost of a single use drone was enormous even for the Soviets who were happy to throw money at problems.

    From memory there were several attempts to market armed UAVs based on the Tu designs, but the RuAF and the Russian Armed forces generally (except the Army with their Pechelkas) really wasn't interested until 2008 when they saw first hand what they were capable of.

    If I was building a UCAV these days I would recommend an armament of perhaps 8 Kornet-EM missiles on the wings in droppable single tubes and an internal weapon bay with perhaps 10 or more KAB-50 bombs with GLONASS guidance kits. High accuracy making a large warhead unnecessary.


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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  medo on Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:12 am

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=q7dK740HmHM

    First Russian build Searcher 2 UAVs are now in production. It seems they will be also for MChS and MVD units.

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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  medo on Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:48 pm

    http://www.lenta.ru/news/2012/10/09/uavs/

    Russian ground forces and VDV will receive Orlan-10 UAVs in 2013.

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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  medo on Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:51 pm

    http://vpk.name/news/76877_izrailskie_bespilotniki_okazalis_ne_gotovyi_k_russkoi_zime.html

    Russian military will have to adapt Israeli UAVS to be capable to operate in winter. In 2012 Russian army will receive 4 Russian made Searcher 2 and 12 Bird eye 400 UAVs.

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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:54 am

    A Russian designed UAV also needed modifications for the Russian winter.

    I think it was Tipchak that used a big rubber bungey cord to launch the UAV.

    In very cold temperatures the rubber material failed and the UAVs could not be launched.

    Would be amusing to design a sort of mini trebuche type launcher with a big long arm with a short line attached to the front of the UAV where a dropping weight slings to arm over to catapult the UAV into the sky.

    You would want to be sure the engine was already running well before launch, and you wouldn't want a UAV that was too fragile, but it would be cheap and reusable (which is why they tried rubber bungey launcing).

    Other launching techniques include rocket motor... which is expensive and hard to hide, or a runway launch... which of course requires a runway.


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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  medo on Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:12 pm

    Not all. Small Zala UAVs could be launched from hand, while bigger Zala-421-16 have pneumatic catapult.

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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:26 pm

    once you get over about 15kgs hand launch is not really a viable option.

    Most larger UAVs have vehicles associated with them so a compressor with a pneumatic launcher is a good all weather solution.

    To be honest when I first read about the bungey cord launch option I thought it was very clever as it is relatively cheap and reusable, and I didn't consider the effects of very low temperatures on the elastic nature of the rubber.

    Of course another option for the near future could be EM catapult, but it would be necessary to shield the UAV from the effects of powerful magnetic forces.

    Another option of course for very cold temperatures could simply be a hot air balloon like a barrage balloon... a large envelope with a gas burner to heat the air up with 4-5 small UAVs hanging below with a tether to your 4 wheel drive vehicle.

    Turn on the burner and the entire envelope will rise and take the UAVs a hundred metres up or so attached with the tether so it doesn't disappear.

    When it gets to height it can release UAVs as they are needed and they can fall vertically straight down to get up to speed and pull up and fly on to its preprogrammed flight path, or be manually controlled.

    For some missions you might not even need to release them... they could view the area from the balloon.


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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    Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  Mr.Kalishnikov47 on Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:38 pm

    MiG and Sukhoi to develop heavy attack drone

    Russian aircraft company "MIG" and "Dry" signed an agreement on cooperation in the development of unmanned aerial vehicles. On Thursday, October 25, according to ITAR-TASS referring to the general director of "MiG" Sergei Korotkov.
    According Korotkov, "MiG" will take part in the project, the tender for which previously won the Holding "Sukhoi". According to the agency, in July 2012 the Russian Defense Ministry has chosen the company "dry" as the main proponent of heavy percussion drone. Possible future machine specifications were not disclosed.

    Earlier work together on drums drone began of "Falcon" and "Transas". However, it was the middle class UAVs weighing up to five tons. However, several military sources, which refers to Itar-Tass, a joint project called "Falcon" and "Transas" more intelligence than the impact drone. In addition, the "Falcon" and "Transas" working together on UAVs weighing up to one ton. The total amount of funding of both projects is estimated at three billion.

    ITAR-TASS referring to the representative RAC "MiG", the company said on Oct. 25 as a significant increase in the use of composite materials in the construction of aircraft MiG-29. Instead of two or three per cent of the volume of composite materials in the construction of fighters is already 10-12 per cent. In particular, the use of composite materials has made half the area of ​​the outer surface of the aircraft. This, in turn, reduces the weight of the aircraft, to increase resistance to corrosion and design its rigidity.

    http://lenta.ru/news/2012/10/25/uav/

    (Google translate)

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