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    Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

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    George1

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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  George1 on Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:19 am



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    Benya

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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  Benya on Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:39 pm

    Book. wrote:New Gas-Turbine Engine Trial Fall 2017: Arctic IFV Rytsar
    Here: http://mil.today/2017/Arctic1/

    Development of advanced infantry fighting vehicle (IFV) Rytsar equipped with gas-turbine engine and electric transmission is under way; trials of the combat vehicle are scheduled in the falls, an insider in the Concern Tractor Plants told Mil.Today.

    According to the interviewee, the Rytsar IFV is being created by JSC Special Machine Building Design Bureau, virtually, on its own initiative. Currently, the project is at the "payment stage", the vehicle components are being designed. Moreover, creation of the new IFV coincides with the concern’s reorganization process, the spokesman added

    The Russian Defense Ministry plans to deploy the perspective vehicle in the Arctic where the gas turbine powerplant will operate better than the diesel one. The military wants the Rytsar IFVs to be supplied to Arctic-based motorized infantry brigades. The new combat vehicle must be powered with 400-hp engine, and its weight will exceed 20 tons, which is heavier than BMP-3.

    The engine for Rytsar IFV has been already designed and is being tested now, but so far this powerplant develops only 380 hp, a source in the Kaluga-based experimental design bureau of motor building told Mil.Today. To increase power, the new turbine needs another supercharger and additional funding. The work on the new generator continues as well. According to the interviewee, the engine will pass from the test-bed trials to the field ones by the coming fall

    Next gen Arctic BMP?  Surprised

    20+ ton IFV  ✔️
    GTD 400 HP  ✔️

    Rytsar will be based on the T-15 heavy IFV

    http://www.armyrecognition.com/june_2017_global_defense_security_news_industry/russia_developing_new_arctic_ifv_on_t-15_chassis_81506173.html

    T-47

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    New Gas-Turbine Engine Trial Fall 2017: Arctic IFV Rytsar

    Post  T-47 on Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:16 pm

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    Benya

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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  Benya on Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:36 pm

    T-47 wrote:That means 40+ Tons!

    Indeed, but tonnage isn't everything. Armata platform vehicles can have wider tracks, offer more protection, can have more sensors and weaponry equipped and so on.
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    George1

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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  George1 on Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:12 pm

    Russian army to get bulk of Terminator armored vehicles in 2018

    The vehicle is equipped with two 30mm-caliber 2A42 autocannons and a 7.62mm-caliber PKTM twin-mount machine gun

    MOSCOW, September 26. /TASS/. The majority of the Terminator tank support combat vehicles will be delivered to the Russian army in 2018, Uralvagonzavod’s Director General Alexander Potapov said on Tuesday.

    "We intend to send the bulk of the vehicles (the Terminators - TASS) in 2018," he stated.

    The Russian Defense Ministry’s Tank-Automation Commander Alexander Shevchenko said earlier that the Terminator combat vehicles would be put into service in the Russian army this year.

    He noted that this is "a vehicle of a brand-new class" that "has already attracted many countries, chiefly Israel and Syria." The tank support fighting vehicle has successfully passed all types of tests, the general specified.

    The Russian Defense Ministry inked a contract to deliver the Terminators at the Army 2017 forum. The total sum of the agreements sealed between the Defense Ministry and Uralvagonzavod back then had surpassed 24 bln rubles ($417 mln).

    The Terminator’s combat weight is 44 tonnes, according to the producer’s website. The vehicle is equipped with two 30mm-caliber 2A42 autocannons and a 7.62mm-caliber PKTM twin-mount machine gun.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/967511


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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:49 pm

    George1 wrote:Russian army to get bulk of Terminator armored vehicles in 2018
    ................
    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/967511


    Will these be converted from T-72 or T-90?
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:44 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    George1 wrote:Russian army to get bulk of Terminator armored vehicles in 2018
    ................
    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/967511


    Will these be converted from T-72 or T-90?

    Considering they are based on a T-72 chassis if they are going to convert it would be T-72's dunno why they would waste a T-90 over this.

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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  Gosean17 on Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:55 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    George1 wrote:Russian army to get bulk of Terminator armored vehicles in 2018
    ................
    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/967511


    Will these be converted from T-72 or T-90?

    Considering they are based on a T-72 chassis if they are going to convert it would be T-72's dunno why they would waste a T-90 over this.

    What I'm wondering is how many Terminators can be acquired for $417,000,000 (24 bln rubles)? In that case, knowing the approximate cost of a single unit would be useful in estimating the total unspecified number of BMPTs the Russian MoD ordered from Uralvagonzavod. The contract probably includes other products and services, including Terminator 2s. So I guess we won't know for certain until more information is available.

    http://tass.com/defense/967511

    "The Russian Defense Ministry inked a contract to deliver the Terminators at the Army 2017 forum. The total sum of the agreements sealed between the Defense Ministry and Uralvagonzavod back then had surpassed 24 bln rubles ($417 mln)."
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    Isos

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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  Isos on Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:22 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    George1 wrote:Russian army to get bulk of Terminator armored vehicles in 2018
    ................
    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/967511


    Will these be converted from T-72 or T-90?

    Considering they are based on a T-72 chassis if they are going to convert it would be T-72's dunno why they would waste a T-90 over this.

    Much better to use t-72 chassi. It is much more cheaper and with the big turret's weight in less you can add as much as you want protections like applique armour or bigger era with a final price still less than a t-90. You can even use first series of t-72 which cost even less than half a million and add protection to the lvl of modern tanks and even better.
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    Interlinked

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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  Interlinked on Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:43 am

    Pretty photos of BMPT-2 at the Luzhskii 33rd Artillery Range as part of demonstrations alongside T-80BVM and T-90M. It did not take part at Zapad 2017, as some websites have claimed.



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    George1

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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  George1 on Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:16 am

    Νice too futuristic design!


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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:44 am

    Beginning in 2018, the Russian Army will begin upgrading the BMP-2's with the Berezhok turret



    They've also ordered a batch of 13 vehicles with the experimental "Epoch" module

    the latest combat module "Epoch" to go in the army trial operation. The Ministry of defence announced the purchase of a batch of 13 cars with the same combat unit.

    Apart from being uninhabited, the features of this module is the presence of 57-mm automatic guns and guided missiles of two types. The well known ATGM "cornet" (the last modification has a range of 8 km and can penetrate 1300 mm armor), and first demonstrated a launcher with a compact multi-purpose guided missiles "Bulat". All the photo shows 8 of these missiles, which in the stowed position placed in the firing module.

    "Bulat" designed to destroy light armored vehicles like the BMP, BTR, BRDM, self-propelled guns, and vehicles, weapon emplacements of the opponent. Not being so powerful as "Cornets", these compact missiles capable of hitting main battle tanks in the less armoured parts of the hull and turret.

    The forum "Army-2017" was shown options for the  BMP-2 and BMP-3. It is also possible to install it on the family of "Armata" and "kurganets-25" and trucks.




    more in link below
    http://vestnik-rm.ru/news-4-21509.htm
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    0nillie0

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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  0nillie0 on Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:09 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:Beginning in 2018, the Russian Army will begin upgrading the BMP-2's with the Berezhok turret

    They've also ordered a batch of 13 vehicles with the experimental "Epoch" module

    My problem with this mock up module is that the "Bulat" launchers appear to be blocking the line of sight of the commanders sight, assuming its a panoramic sight.
    This is not the only turret which has this issue.
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  d_taddei2 on Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:15 pm

    Does anyone have info on range and penetration info on bulat
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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  Cyberspec on Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:41 am

    0nillie0 wrote:
    Cyberspec wrote:Beginning in 2018, the Russian Army will begin upgrading the BMP-2's with the Berezhok turret

    They've also ordered a batch of 13 vehicles with the experimental "Epoch" module

    My problem with this mock up module is that the "Bulat" launchers appear to be blocking the line of sight of the commanders sight, assuming its a panoramic sight.
    This is not the only turret which has this issue.

    I guess the saying "there's no free lunch" applies here....unless the launcher retracts inside the turret, which I don't think it does. But remember, the turret is unmanned

    d_taddei2 wrote:Does anyone have info on range and penetration info on bulat

    There doesn't seem to be much public info on the missile

    57mm round for the main gun (actually grenade launcher round as pointed out below)



    Last edited by Cyberspec on Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Interlinked

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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  Interlinked on Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:39 am

    That's a very interesting concept. I wonder if there are thermobaric "Bulat" missiles to go with the (presumably) normal HEAT type.
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    The-thing-next-door

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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:51 am

    Cyberspec wrote:
    57mm round for the main gun


    Are you sure that thing looks like the amunition for a 57mm grenade launcher and not a 57mm cannon.


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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  kopyo-21 on Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:25 pm

    In the BMP-3 with new Epoch turret, does anyone know what the 2 guns in the sides of its front are? They look oviously not 7.62 gun.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  GarryB on Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:48 am

    My problem with this mock up module is that the "Bulat" launchers appear to be blocking the line of sight of the commanders sight, assuming its a panoramic sight.
    This is not the only turret which has this issue.

    Looks to me like the Bulat launchers are retractable and therefore should not be a problem and they will likely pop up and fire and then pop back down.

    I guess the saying "there's no free lunch" applies here....unless the launcher retracts inside the turret, which I don't think it does. But remember, the turret is unmanned

    Just looking at the model image they look like they drop down and slightly forward with side doors closing over top to retract.

    It would not be the first retractable ATGM system for them... the BRDM family had all retractable missiles on the AT-3 model and the AT-4/5 model too.

    There doesn't seem to be much public info on the missile

    57mm round for the main gun

    That is the 57mm grenade launcher round.... so very powerful HE capacity but not so good armour penetration performance unless they have a HEAT model but even then its penetration would be modest.

    That's a very interesting concept. I wonder if there are thermobaric "Bulat" missiles to go with the (presumably) normal HEAT type.

    I would guess yes, but on that platform if the main 57mm gun is a grenade launcher then that would be more effective in the HE role than missiles, which I would expect due to the low velocity of the 57mm gun will be the main anti armour protection.... Bulat for anti light armour and Kornet for anti heavy armour and aircraft probably, while soft targets would be engaged with the 57mm gun.

    I wonder if that retractible pack of Bulat has a reload option that can be used when the system is retracted... no crew in the turret, but the BRDM-3 could carry extra missiles inside in addition to the 5 on the external launcher so presumably they could be reloaded too.

    In the BMP-3 with new Epoch turret, does anyone know what the 2 guns in the sides of its front are? They look oviously not 7.62 gun.

    They could be PKT barrels just sticking out further than normal, the muzzle device looks like the PKT cone and not like the current Kord shaped muzzle device...

    Firing from such low positions I would expect a 30 cal MG would be more likely, though a 40mm grenade launcher would be useful too but the barrel is clearly not a large calibre grenade weapon.

    Note the rear turret mounted grenade launcher on the BMP-2 upgrade looks like a 40mm Balkan grenade launcher with a longer barrel rather than a 30mm grenade launcher.



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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  kopyo-21 on Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:04 pm

    GarryB wrote:Note the rear turret mounted grenade launcher on the BMP-2 upgrade looks like a 40mm Balkan grenade launcher with a longer barrel rather than a 30mm grenade launcher.
    They said that was AG-17 30mm grenade launcher (with longer barrel, I think), not 40mm.

    http://www.arms-expo.ru/news/aviasalony_i_vystavki/vystavka_oboronekspo_2014_boevoy_modul_berezhok_budet_predstavlen_v_ekspozitsii_konstruktorskogo_byu/?sphrase_id=4802000

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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  GarryB on Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:48 pm

    That looks like a very thin barrel... maybe it is a sleeve over the real barrel?

    In fact the inside of that barrel is not rifled so it must be a sleeve... check out the barrel of the AGS-30 which is not as thin as this and is clearly rifled:




    Bit of a shame if it is only 30mm, their latest 30mm round has a range of 2.1km but the new 40mm grenades reach 2.5km with standard rounds and carry a much larger HE payload... plus there are no shell stubs to eject on firing and the body of the grenade launcher is much narrower and more compact.

    So much so I would think the new Balkan 40mm grenade launcher could be mounted any where that a PKT coaxial MG could be mounted as long as you can fit the much larger ammo.


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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  kopyo-21 on Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:43 am

    I think they still use the 30mm grenade lauchers because of large stock of both guns and ammunitions.

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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  Interlinked on Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:57 am

    kopyo-21 wrote:I think they still use the 30mm grenade lauchers because of large stock of both guns and ammunitions.

    I think so too. In the end, this is only a cost-effective modernization for an old vehicle.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  GarryB on Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:26 am

    I agree, for the moment the inferior but in service 30mm grenades do make sense, But the new 40mm grenades are rather more powerful and have better range... and for these sorts of weapons range is very important as it is very useful to sit 2km away from a target pretty much outside small arms fire range and pummel them with these rounds.

    The use of the 57mm grenade launcher is very clever for the new infantry vehicle the only drawback is lack of anti armour performance.

    Previously the 30mm cannon and the Ataka missiles mean not that good armour penetration and only about 4 heavy punch accurate shots with HE at extended range.

    My own suggestion of using the BMP-3 turret armament was mainly based on the serious HE power of the HE rounds, plus the guided missiles (8 of which carried meant decent protection from armour).

    There was a model shown of a new BMPT that had a 120mm mortar plus small gatling gun and grenade launcher which were surmised to be a 23mm 6 barrel gatling and a 40mm or 57mm grenade launcher.

    This was even better than my choice as it had a 120mm mortar firing powerful HE rounds but also guided Gran missiles and Kitilov missiles as well as shells as would be a very powerful hard hitting weapon.

    This package makes up for the lack of a heavy calibre weapon in terms of anti armour by having long range Kornet missiles (4 ready to fire) plus a retractable launcher for short range guided missiles that could probably hold a dozen or so mini missiles.

    Most importantly the main gun is a 57mm grenade launcher with huge HE fire power... its lack of anti armour performance is compensated by the guided missiles carried.

    I wonder if they have guided 57mm grenades? There should be space for them I would think...

    They can continue to put 30mm grenade launchers on new and upgraded vehicles, but as the new 40mm grenade launchers become more widely produced they can eventually swap them over to the new weapons as the new 40mm Balkan grenade launchers are rather compact weapons, though the ammo magazines will need to be reshaped and new feed belts fitted for the newer ammo.


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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  Interlinked on Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:40 am

    There have been so many things over the last decade that they decided wasn't worth the money, so it shouldn't come as a surprise that the Balkan wasn't installed. Besides, small grenade launchers occupy a rather strange niche for IFVs. They are indirect fire weapons that are much less powerful than mortars and have a rather short range. They don't outrange ATGMs, and small arms stop being useful against a BMP-2 at distances much less than 2 km. There's really not much an AGS-30 can do that the 2A42 can't.

    I'm glad that that BMPT model wasn't taken seriously. It shouldn't be.

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