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    Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

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    kopyo-21
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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  kopyo-21 on Mon Sep 05, 2016 6:24 pm



    It looked like what Ukraine do with ZTM-1 (Ukrainian 2A72 gun) on BTR-3E.

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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  Zivo on Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:41 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Zivo wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Zivo wrote:So in this application, what does the large barrel shroud actually do?

    Reduce the shaking of the barrel. Also you can see that the gun is an 2A72 30mm gun.

    Missiles, from diametre alone you can see those are Kornets.


    How does it actually reduce shaking? Does the end of the shroud contact the barrel using a rail or tube?

    I don't know, but it looks like a friction and support sleeve like the one that was tried on the ATOM APC.

    I thought having a floating barrel was all the rage, making guns more accurate, etc. Doesn't the same rule apply to auto cannons?

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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:00 am

    Zivo wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Zivo wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Zivo wrote:So in this application, what does the large barrel shroud actually do?

    Reduce the shaking of the barrel. Also you can see that the gun is an 2A72 30mm gun.

    Missiles, from diametre alone you can see those are Kornets.


    How does it actually reduce shaking? Does the end of the shroud contact the barrel using a rail or tube?

    I don't know, but it looks like a friction and support sleeve like the one that was tried on the ATOM APC.

    I thought having a floating barrel was all the rage, making guns more accurate, etc. Doesn't the same rule apply to auto cannons?

    Floating barrels on what? Rifles...sure, auto-canons? Not exactly. The imparted energy from a 30mm round is something else than from a 7.62 cartridge.

    GarryB
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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  GarryB on Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:03 am

    Definitely not Krisantema, the length of those launchers alone confirms that.

    I suspect they will likely adapt Krisantema by making it a larger calibre at some stage... the length of the containers is difficult to gauge due to the angle.

    Seem to be it armed 30mm gun, not 57mm.

    yes, the 2A72 cannon has a ring around it near the muzzle which would make it appear a rather larger calibre than it actually is.

    So in this application, what does the large barrel shroud actually do?

    Support to reduce vibration during firing.

    The BMP-3 has a similar support attached to the barrel of the 100mm rifled gun.

    How does it actually reduce shaking? Does the end of the shroud contact the barrel using a rail or tube?

    Reduces vibration.

    I don't know, but it looks like a friction and support sleeve like the one that was tried on the ATOM APC.

    Also the Kliver turret and the BMP-3.

    I thought having a floating barrel was all the rage, making guns more accurate, etc. Doesn't the same rule apply to auto cannons?

    A solid support can be better than a free floating barrel.... hense bipods and MG stands are popular for machine guns and automatic weapons.




    This view of the BMP-3s main gun arrangement shows two straps around the 100mm gun... one at the muzzle of the 30mm cannon and another a little further back with a sleeve around the 30mm cannon barrel between those two straps.

    A [full length] sleeve reduces IR signature and reduces the ability of the gun to vibrate at random.


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    kopyo-21
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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  kopyo-21 on Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:43 pm

    This view of the BMP-3s main gun arrangement shows two straps around the 100mm gun... one at the muzzle of the 30mm cannon and another a little further back with a sleeve around the 30mm cannon barrel between those two straps.

    A [full length] sleeve reduces IR signature and reduces the ability of the gun to vibrate at random.

    The two rings on 2A72 barrel are for sliding and recoiling in the tube that  fixed on the 2A70 barrel. 2A72 gun aimed for BMP-3, paralel and attached to 2A70 barrel since the first time so everything had been designed with that in mind.

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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  AlfaT8 on Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:37 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Definitely not Krisantema, the length of those launchers alone confirms that.

    I suspect they will likely adapt Krisantema by making it a larger calibre at some stage... the length of the containers is difficult to gauge due to the angle.

    Extremely unlikely that it's Krisantema, even angled.

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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Sep 06, 2016 8:50 pm

    I opened a new photo thread about the Army-2016 Exhibition that opened today.

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t5346-army-2016-exhibition-photos-videos-and-discussions#174463

    Here is a sharper photo of the new module from the above thread.

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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  GarryB on Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:45 pm

    Extremely unlikely that it's Krisantema, even angled.

    I agree, but I suggest that the Krisantema has a larger warhead than the Ataka it replaced and I suspect to further improve range and penetration a calibre increase at some stage is not unlikely.



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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  George1 on Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:00 pm

    Russia to design new-generation tank killers — Defense Ministry

    Russia currently has the Khrizantema-S and Shturm-SM antitank missile systems in service

    MOSCOW, November 19. /TASS/. Russia plans to design a new-generation tank destroyer, chief of missile forces and artillery of the Russian Armed Forces Lt. Gen. Mikhail Matveyevsky said on Friday.

    "We already plan the development of a new-generation self-propelled antitank missile system of a new generation, that follows the principle of ‘shot-forgot-hit’," Matveyevsky said.

    Russia currently has the Khrizantema-S and Shturm-SM antitank missile systems in service. They are intended to destroy moving and stationary air and ground targets, including main battle tanks, small surface ships, low-flying air targets and fortifications.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/913218


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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  GarryB on Sat Nov 19, 2016 7:47 am

    Wonder if this means Hermes, or something new but smaller than Hermes.

    Interesting they want a fire and forget missile... I guess Thermal imaging and MMW radar technology has likely moved to the point where it would be cheap enough to fit to every missile and still allowing mass production...


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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Nov 19, 2016 2:43 pm

    GarryB wrote:Wonder if this means Hermes, or something new but smaller than Hermes.

    Interesting they want a fire and forget missile... I guess Thermal imaging and MMW radar technology has likely moved to the point where it would be cheap enough to fit to every missile and still allowing mass production...

    My educated guess is th swill be light one something like Javelin. So a foot soldier can carry it if needed.

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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  GarryB on Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:00 am

    My educated guess is th swill be light one something like Javelin. So a foot soldier can carry it if needed.

    There was talk of a medium missile between long range Kornet-EM (8.5km AT and 10km HE) and short range highly portable Metis-M1 (2km) that would use fire and forget guidance, but the article mentions the Krisantema and shturm... which are both heavy vehicle or aircraft carried weapons.

    Perhaps they might have a new design weapon in a large and small missile design... one portable and perhaps top attack, and a heavier longer range missile with fire and forget and perhaps also top attack to replace the Krisantema and Ataka and Shturm (carried by Hind, Havok, Hokum, Hip, and other helos and also ground based ATGM vehicles based on the MTLB chassis).

    Will be interesting if they can make them cheap enough to actually use in the huge numbers they currently deploy them in.


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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  Benya on Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:38 pm

    Analysis: Fire support vehicles BMP-T and BMPT-72 of Russian defense industry.

    Russian defense industry has developed and manufactured fire support vehicle BMPT and BMPT-72 based on the chassis of T-72 main battle tanks to increase fire power and combat capabilities of dismounted troops. This type of vehicle is armed with automatic cannon and anti-tank guided missiles able to destroy a wide range of modern military threats on the battlefield.


    Russian-made BMPT-72 Terminator 2 fire support vehicle

    The Russian defense industry under the umbrella of Rosoboronexport, Russia's state-run arms exporter company promotes fire support vehicles, BMP- T Terminator 1 and BMPT-72 Terminator 2 for the international military market.

    The BMPT-72 vehicle was developed to support tank and motorized riflemen units. It is based on the chassis of the T-72 main battle tank (MBT) and features protection that is similar to the one of MBTs. BMPT-72 has an armament suite that provides detecting and eliminating of small-sized camouflaged targets. Modern target search-and-detection systems, an automatized fire control system, a powerful multichannel automatic weapons suite, and all-aspect protection of the crew allows BMPT-72 to accomplish fire support missions in all types of combat environment and in complex geographical areas, by day and night, against any enemy.

    BMPT-72 is produced using phased-out-of-service T-72 MBTs. Obsolete T-72 tanks that are not supposed to be upgraded due to the economic ineffectiveness of such a modernization can be rebuilt into BMPT-72 vehicles. The rebuilding process comprises the replacement of tank turret by the BMPT combat module with remote controlled weapons (automatic cannons, a machinegun, and guided missiles) located in a separate structure, as well as the repairing and upgrade (at customer`s request) of the chassis. The works to rebuild T-72s into BMPT-72s can be performed at customer`s production facilities.

    The main armament of the BMPT-72 consists of two 30 mm 2A42 automatic cannons that fire high-explosive and armour-piercing rounds. The guided weapon system incorporates two launchers with four ready-to-launch guided missiles armed with high-explosive anti-tank or thermobaric warheads. The vehicle can fire the missiles on the move by day and night. It also carries a coaxial 7.62 mm machinegun.

    The uses of tank chassis provides BMPT-72 an high level of the vehicle`s protection and allows it to accomplish missions in tank formations under enemy`s fire. The protection suite of BMPT-72 incorporates basic armour, integrated explosive reactive armour, an automated smoke screening system, additional bar-slat armour, a camouflage painting, and a low visual signature


    Russian-made BMP-T Terminator 1 fire support vehicle first version.

    The BMP-T Terminator 1 fire support vehicle is designed to provide fire support to tank and motorized riflemen units and to detect and eliminate low-observable and scattered targets (primarily, enemy`s manpower equipped with small arms and anti-tank weapons) on the battlefield. It features an armament suite that allows destructing of heavy-protected platforms (tanks and tank-based vehicles), fortifications, and aerial targets. However, the detection of low-observable targets and their well-timed elimination are the primary tasks set before the BMPT fire support vehicle.

    The BMP-T Terminator 1 can be used in tank formations or separately. A tank unit equipped with BMPTs features advanced efficiency, as enemy`s well-protected vehicles and fortifications are destroyed by MBTs, while manpower, anti-tank-systems, and soft-skin vehicles by BMPTs. The separate usage of fire support vehicles envisages dismounted troops combat efficiency boosting, conveys securing and escorting, and eliminating of terrorists.

    The armament of the BMP-T Terminator 1 includes two 30 mm 2A42 dual-axis stabilized automatic cannons with an ammunition load of 850 rounds, a 7.62 mm PKT machinegun with an ammunition load of 2,000 rounds, four anti-tank laser-guided missiles, and two 30 mm automatic grenade launchers with an ammunition load of 600 grenades.

    The BMP-T Terminator 1features advanced protection suite that shield the crew from anti-tank munitions. BMPT has tank-level basic armour. Its front part is not weakened by a firing port intended for tank gun. The sides of the vehicle are additionally protected by explosive reactive armour. The BMPT`s protection suite actually exceeds the tank`s one. The rear part of the vehicle features bar-slat armour.

    Source: Arrow http://www.armyrecognition.com/weapons_defence_industry_military_technology_uk/analysis_fire_support_vehicles_bmp-t_and_bmpt-72_of_russian_defense_industry_tass_10302173.html



    I'm curious about how the Army will incorporate the BMPTs into its tank units. Maybe they will assign a BMPT company to each tank battalion of an armored brigade/division, or they do it on a much more organic manner. A few months ago I have posted an interesting article in the Armata thread (also from Army Recognition), and I'm sure that with the introduction of the "Terminator 3" based on the Armata platform it will be incorporated into the Armata brigades/divisions in an organic way.

    The link to the article I mentioned: Arrow http://www.armyrecognition.com/armies_in_the_world_analysis_focus/tactics_of_russian_motor_rifle_brigades_will_change_with_introduction_of_armata_tracked_platform_tass_12407161.html

    Speaking about the Terminator 3, it could also receive some kind of APS (most likely "Afghanit"), and "Shtora" passive electronic defense system, plus the "Nakidka" radar absorbent camouflage paint, or a more modern alternative of these two systems. Plus its automated turret with dual 57mm autocannons could also be mounted onto a T-90/T-90MS chassis, which would make a great export potential for it.

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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  Cplnew83 on Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:32 pm

    kopyo-21 wrote:

    It looked like what Ukraine do with ZTM-1 (Ukrainian 2A72 gun) on BTR-3E.

    Is that a vehicle sold to Thailand ? The sight is a SAFRAN Electronic Défense MPS

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    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:18 pm

    Cplnew83 wrote:
    kopyo-21 wrote:

    It looked like what Ukraine do with ZTM-1 (Ukrainian 2A72 gun) on BTR-3E.

    Is that a vehicle sold to Thailand ? The sight is a SAFRAN Electronic Défense MPS

    Yes it is and yes it is the demonstrator that the RTA picked up.

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