Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Share

    kopyo-21
    Private
    Private

    Posts : 46
    Points : 48
    Join date : 2013-08-21
    Location : Bangkok - Thailand

    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  kopyo-21 on Mon Sep 05, 2016 6:24 pm



    It looked like what Ukraine do with ZTM-1 (Ukrainian 2A72 gun) on BTR-3E.

    Zivo
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1504
    Points : 1540
    Join date : 2012-04-13
    Location : U.S.A.

    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  Zivo on Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:41 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Zivo wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Zivo wrote:So in this application, what does the large barrel shroud actually do?

    Reduce the shaking of the barrel. Also you can see that the gun is an 2A72 30mm gun.

    Missiles, from diametre alone you can see those are Kornets.


    How does it actually reduce shaking? Does the end of the shroud contact the barrel using a rail or tube?

    I don't know, but it looks like a friction and support sleeve like the one that was tried on the ATOM APC.

    I thought having a floating barrel was all the rage, making guns more accurate, etc. Doesn't the same rule apply to auto cannons?

    KoTeMoRe
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3580
    Points : 3615
    Join date : 2015-04-21
    Location : Krankhaus Central.

    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:00 am

    Zivo wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Zivo wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Zivo wrote:So in this application, what does the large barrel shroud actually do?

    Reduce the shaking of the barrel. Also you can see that the gun is an 2A72 30mm gun.

    Missiles, from diametre alone you can see those are Kornets.


    How does it actually reduce shaking? Does the end of the shroud contact the barrel using a rail or tube?

    I don't know, but it looks like a friction and support sleeve like the one that was tried on the ATOM APC.

    I thought having a floating barrel was all the rage, making guns more accurate, etc. Doesn't the same rule apply to auto cannons?

    Floating barrels on what? Rifles...sure, auto-canons? Not exactly. The imparted energy from a 30mm round is something else than from a 7.62 cartridge.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15470
    Points : 16177
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  GarryB on Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:03 am

    Definitely not Krisantema, the length of those launchers alone confirms that.

    I suspect they will likely adapt Krisantema by making it a larger calibre at some stage... the length of the containers is difficult to gauge due to the angle.

    Seem to be it armed 30mm gun, not 57mm.

    yes, the 2A72 cannon has a ring around it near the muzzle which would make it appear a rather larger calibre than it actually is.

    So in this application, what does the large barrel shroud actually do?

    Support to reduce vibration during firing.

    The BMP-3 has a similar support attached to the barrel of the 100mm rifled gun.

    How does it actually reduce shaking? Does the end of the shroud contact the barrel using a rail or tube?

    Reduces vibration.

    I don't know, but it looks like a friction and support sleeve like the one that was tried on the ATOM APC.

    Also the Kliver turret and the BMP-3.

    I thought having a floating barrel was all the rage, making guns more accurate, etc. Doesn't the same rule apply to auto cannons?

    A solid support can be better than a free floating barrel.... hense bipods and MG stands are popular for machine guns and automatic weapons.




    This view of the BMP-3s main gun arrangement shows two straps around the 100mm gun... one at the muzzle of the 30mm cannon and another a little further back with a sleeve around the 30mm cannon barrel between those two straps.

    A [full length] sleeve reduces IR signature and reduces the ability of the gun to vibrate at random.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    kopyo-21
    Private
    Private

    Posts : 46
    Points : 48
    Join date : 2013-08-21
    Location : Bangkok - Thailand

    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  kopyo-21 on Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:43 pm

    This view of the BMP-3s main gun arrangement shows two straps around the 100mm gun... one at the muzzle of the 30mm cannon and another a little further back with a sleeve around the 30mm cannon barrel between those two straps.

    A [full length] sleeve reduces IR signature and reduces the ability of the gun to vibrate at random.

    The two rings on 2A72 barrel are for sliding and recoiling in the tube that  fixed on the 2A70 barrel. 2A72 gun aimed for BMP-3, paralel and attached to 2A70 barrel since the first time so everything had been designed with that in mind.

    AlfaT8
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1149
    Points : 1162
    Join date : 2013-02-02

    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  AlfaT8 on Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:37 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Definitely not Krisantema, the length of those launchers alone confirms that.

    I suspect they will likely adapt Krisantema by making it a larger calibre at some stage... the length of the containers is difficult to gauge due to the angle.

    Extremely unlikely that it's Krisantema, even angled.

    TheArmenian
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1518
    Points : 1681
    Join date : 2011-09-14

    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Sep 06, 2016 8:50 pm

    I opened a new photo thread about the Army-2016 Exhibition that opened today.

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t5346-army-2016-exhibition-photos-videos-and-discussions#174463

    Here is a sharper photo of the new module from the above thread.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15470
    Points : 16177
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  GarryB on Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:45 pm

    Extremely unlikely that it's Krisantema, even angled.

    I agree, but I suggest that the Krisantema has a larger warhead than the Ataka it replaced and I suspect to further improve range and penetration a calibre increase at some stage is not unlikely.



    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9443
    Points : 9935
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  George1 on Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:00 pm

    Russia to design new-generation tank killers — Defense Ministry

    Russia currently has the Khrizantema-S and Shturm-SM antitank missile systems in service

    MOSCOW, November 19. /TASS/. Russia plans to design a new-generation tank destroyer, chief of missile forces and artillery of the Russian Armed Forces Lt. Gen. Mikhail Matveyevsky said on Friday.

    "We already plan the development of a new-generation self-propelled antitank missile system of a new generation, that follows the principle of ‘shot-forgot-hit’," Matveyevsky said.

    Russia currently has the Khrizantema-S and Shturm-SM antitank missile systems in service. They are intended to destroy moving and stationary air and ground targets, including main battle tanks, small surface ships, low-flying air targets and fortifications.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/913218


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov


    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15470
    Points : 16177
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  GarryB on Sat Nov 19, 2016 7:47 am

    Wonder if this means Hermes, or something new but smaller than Hermes.

    Interesting they want a fire and forget missile... I guess Thermal imaging and MMW radar technology has likely moved to the point where it would be cheap enough to fit to every missile and still allowing mass production...


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    GunshipDemocracy
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1516
    Points : 1558
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Nov 19, 2016 2:43 pm

    GarryB wrote:Wonder if this means Hermes, or something new but smaller than Hermes.

    Interesting they want a fire and forget missile... I guess Thermal imaging and MMW radar technology has likely moved to the point where it would be cheap enough to fit to every missile and still allowing mass production...

    My educated guess is th swill be light one something like Javelin. So a foot soldier can carry it if needed.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15470
    Points : 16177
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  GarryB on Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:00 am

    My educated guess is th swill be light one something like Javelin. So a foot soldier can carry it if needed.

    There was talk of a medium missile between long range Kornet-EM (8.5km AT and 10km HE) and short range highly portable Metis-M1 (2km) that would use fire and forget guidance, but the article mentions the Krisantema and shturm... which are both heavy vehicle or aircraft carried weapons.

    Perhaps they might have a new design weapon in a large and small missile design... one portable and perhaps top attack, and a heavier longer range missile with fire and forget and perhaps also top attack to replace the Krisantema and Ataka and Shturm (carried by Hind, Havok, Hokum, Hip, and other helos and also ground based ATGM vehicles based on the MTLB chassis).

    Will be interesting if they can make them cheap enough to actually use in the huge numbers they currently deploy them in.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Sponsored content

    Re: Future of Russian IFV/BMPT

    Post  Sponsored content Today at 3:04 am


      Current date/time is Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:04 am