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    Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread

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    TR1

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    Re: Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread

    Post  TR1 on Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:32 am

    I hope everyone realizes this was an old test-article that has zero chance of being adopted in any form, nor is the VDV trying to get it adopted either.
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    franco

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    Re: Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread

    Post  franco on Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:31 pm

    Article on the 2S34 upgrade of the 2S1. Doesn't sound like too many will show up.
    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Ftopwar.ru%2F&sandbox=1
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    George1

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    Re: Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread

    Post  George1 on Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:48 pm

    franco wrote:Article on the 2S34 upgrade of the 2S1. Doesn't sound like too many will show up.
    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Ftopwar.ru%2F&sandbox=1

    can we have in this thread the total pieces number for all self-propelled artillery systems?


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    franco

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    Re: Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread

    Post  franco on Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:47 pm

    Could not find article on 2S34... could you copy and paste it here?

    Thought that I had with the link above but it appears to download the webpage. The article is presently about half way down page 2 on the linked web site.
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    Mobile Mortars

    Post  Book. on Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:22 pm

    The self-propelled cannon 2S34 "Hosta"

    Since the beginning of the seventies by the Soviet and Russian army is self-propelled artillery 2S1 "Carnation". This self-propelled gun with a gun 2A31 122mm is intended for destruction of manpower, equipment and facilities of the enemy, as well as other complements other types of self-propelled guns. For two decades, it was built several thousand combat vehicles, most of which are still in service. However, by the beginning of the two thousandth's military came to the conclusion to replace "Carnations". So there was a project 2S34 "Hosta". The decision to develop a new project was adopted in 2003. The military ordered the creation of a deep modernization of the existing ACS 2S1. Initially, the new project had the designation 2S1M related to its main task - to upgrade the existing self-propelled gun. However, later in the new project was introduced so many innovations that have changed the index to 2S34. Also, the project was designated a cipher "Hosta". The lead developer of the new project was the Perm company "MZ". In addition, the works attracted CRI "Petrel". According to reports, the original terms of reference imply the creation of a new modification of self-propelled 2S1 "Carnation" with new weapons and fire control equipment. For this reason, it was decided to revise only the fighting compartment and the tower machine. Tracked chassis offered remain unchanged, which further affected the fate of the project. Thus, self-propelled guns (CAO) 2S34 "Host" is a new fighting compartment with a cannon mounted on the chassis base machine.

    SAO 2S34 chassis to keep the old layout, the traditional home for self-propelled guns of recent decades. In front of the housing, with a shift to the right side, it is the engine-transmission compartment. To his left is the separation of management from the workplace of the driver. The middle and rear of the hull placed under the crew compartment. On the roof of the body has a shoulder strap for the installation of the tower. Housing combat vehicle is welded from rolled armor plates of thickness up to 15 mm, providing protection from the bullets of small arms and shell fragments. The basis of the power plant chassis "Host" is a diesel engine YaMZ-238N 300 hp With the double-flow engine related mechanical transmission with planetary-friction rotation mechanism. There are six forward gears and one rear. As part of the chassis there are seven road wheels with torsion bar suspension on each side. Several rollers are supplied with hydraulic shock absorbers. Because the front-engine driven wheels are in the forward part of the sides, the guides - the feed. Special support rollers are not available, since the upper branch of the tracks lies on road wheels. 2S34 self-propelled body length is 7.57 m, width - 2.85 m. Total height of the tower on the roof - 2,83 m. The combat weight of 16 tons. Specific Power Machines is at 18.75 hp per ton, which allows a speed (on the road) to 60 km / h. On rough terrain the maximum speed is twice lower.

    Due to the sealed enclosure CAO "Host" can cross water obstacles swimming. In this case, the movement is carried out by peremetyvaniya caterpillars. Speed ​​by water does not exceed 4-4.5 km / h. When driving on the highway fuel range reaches 500 km. Central and rear of the hull takes self-propelled fighting compartment with a rotating turret. It is armed, ammunition and fire control equipment. In the central part of the front plate of the tower provides a window for the guns and masks. Mechanisms for setting the gun can fire with an elevation angle between -2 ° and + 80 °. Traverse - pie. On the cheeks of the tower are smoke grenade launchers. On the roof of the turret is provided for the machine gun, designed for self-defense. In order to improve the characteristics of the new combat vehicle it was decided to replace the basic instrument. Instead of 122-mm howitzer 2A31 rifled weapon now used 2A80-1 120mm. This instrument combines the basic functions of guns, howitzers and large caliber mortars that, as expected, would lead to a significant increase in combat performance. A characteristic feature of the new instruments is a muzzle brake recognizable form. In addition, the instrument is equipped with special anti-recoil devices can fire a wide range of elevation angles as direct fire, and "in the mortar." Inside the crew compartment is placed 40 shots of ammunition of different types. The gun car "Host" is a modernized version of the 2A80 gun used in the composition of the CAO 2S31 "Vienna". With this two self-propelled may use the same type of ammunition. 2S34 self-propelled gun can fire high-explosive, thermobaric, incendiary, lighting, cassette, etc. shells. At the same time, however, in contrast to the "Vienna", "Host" can not use armor-piercing shaped-charge projectiles 3VBK14.

    Cannon 2A80-1 can fire or direct fire from concealed positions. By using different firing modes provides effective engagement of targets at ranges up to 13 kilometers, depending on the type of projectile and some other parameters. Accuracy depends on getting the ammunition. For example, in the range of shots are used by some guided missiles to significantly reduce the consumption of ammunition to defeat this purpose. In addition to new weapons to improve the characteristics of fire use fire control equipment updated. It is known that there are two variants fire control system (FCS). A full version of the so-called automatic system guidance and fire control (AGFCS) and its simplified version. According to reports, a full version of the MSA is intended to command vehicles, which have to handle the available information and provide target designation for other self-propelled battery. The latter case may use a simplified version of the OMS that can execute commands and solve tasks without complex calculations, etc. operations. The operation of the CAO 2S34 "Hosta" carried a crew of four.

    The driver is located in front of the hulls to the left of the engine. The commander, gunner and loader are located in the tower. At the disposal of the latter has a complete set of equipment for the control system responsible for firing on selected targets. Development of the project ended in 2S34 by 2008. Shortly thereafter, "MZ", together with some related companies started manufacturing new equipment. After some time, the new combat vehicles came to the test, and then were transferred to the troops for inspection during operation. Troop tests were conducted self-propelled artillery battery of the 1st infantry battalion 21 th Separate Motorized Rifle Brigade (Orenburg region). In the new self-propelled high expectations. It was expected that the new equipment chassis spent fighting compartment with a universal instrument will significantly improve the combat capability of artillery units. Nevertheless, during military tests revealed some serious drawbacks resulting machine. Chief among these have been linked to the chassis used. In autumn 2012 it became known that on the real characteristics of the CAO "Hosta" said the approach to the design with extensive use of ready-made units.

    According to the national press, the new self-propelled gun during the tests showed a lack of stability and rate of fire. Thus, due to the use of the old chassis, designed without considering the peculiarities of the new instruments, the CAO "Hosta" while firing at high angles of elevation wobble, which affected the accuracy of shooting. Similar problems were observed mainly when shooting in the "mortar" because the returns in this case above and has its own specific distribution of units of the machine. Insufficient stability of the chassis also affected the rate of fire. Because of the need to introduce new amendments and the difficulties with loading the gun in the car rocking during the test managed to fire a rate no more than 3-4 rounds per minute. In comparison, the 120-mm towed mortar 2S12 "Sani" by a proper distribution of the recoil momentum, capable of producing up to 10-12 rounds per minute. Also in November 2012, domestic media reported that by the time the news about problems CAO "Host" enterprise "MZ" has not received any official documents about any failures during testing. At the same time, however, representatives of the plant noted that the self-propelled gun was developed in strict accordance with the requirements of the customer.

    It was reported that due to the problems identified Defense Ministry has no plans to purchase new 2S34 self-propelled guns. As a solution to the current problem is called to develop a new version of the machine on the basis of a chassis, providing the required stability while shooting. However, as far as is known, version of "hosts" on the new chassis has not yet been established. To date, according to various sources, it was built at least 50 self-propelled artillery 2S34 "Hosta". This technique has been handed over to the various units of ground forces, which operated up to the present time. At times like fighting vehicles are taking part in various exercises. For example, in March this year in the Southern Military District conducted the camp to collect artillery. The event at the military range shooting Prudboy conducted using various weapons, including the CAO "Hosta". At the moment, the troops there are several dozens of new self-propelled type 2S34 "Hosta". For information about further purchases of such equipment is not available. Thus, the gradual replacement of existing ACS "Carnation", planned in the first half of the last decade, has been postponed indefinitely. However, in this situation, ground forces were able to obtain new vehicles with sufficient high performance, although not fully arranging military. Perhaps in the near future the problem with insufficient stability of the chassis will be resolved, which will start construction and delivery of high-grade self-propelled guns, fully meet the requirements.

    http://topwar.ru/78922-samohodnoe-artilleriyskoe-orudie-2s34-hosta.html


    No prob. I help franco Smile
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    franco

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    Re: Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread

    Post  franco on Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:26 pm

    SP Artillery Numbers
    - includes Ground Forces, Naval Infantry and Coastal plus Airborne
    - normal battalion has 18 firing pieces, rounded up to 20 to allow unit spares
    - does not include training, reserve or storage pieces

    2S1 - 340 (17 bns)
    2S3 - 840 (42 bns)
    2S4 - 8 (1 bn)
    2S5 - 140 (7 bns)
    2S7 - 12 (1 bn)
    2S9 - 370 (16 bns + 7 btys)
    2S19 - 600 (30 bns) last production received in 2014
    2S23 - ~50 not sure if used as a bn mortar bty
    2S34 - ~50 not sure if used as a bn mortar bty or replacing 2S1 bns
    2S35 - 12 delivered this year, main production starts next year
    A-222 - ~30 Berg 130mm Coastal Artillery, status not sure

    Rocket Artillery Numbers
    - broke down by caliber to include all types

    122 - 980 (49 bns) at least 8-10 bns have upgraded Tornado-G
    220 - ~200 ( 4 units of 24 and 8 units of 8 Uragan = 160 plus 5-15 units of 3 TOS-1A)
    300 - 24 (2 brigades of 12 each)

    SP Antitank Numbers
    - part of the Artillery & Rocket Forces
    - organized into companies of 9, rounded up to 10 to allow spares

    BTR-RD - 120 (12 coys) AT-4/5
    9P148 - 200 (20 coys) AT-5
    9P149 - 960 (96 coys) AT-6
    9P157 - ~50 (started production replacing the 9P149) AT-15
    Tigr/Kornet - ~10 (just delivered, starting production) AT-14
    2S25 - ~30 delivered, awaiting upgrading before resuming production
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    Re: Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread

    Post  George1 on Sat Jul 18, 2015 7:20 pm

    Only 24x Smerch in service??


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    Re: Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread

    Post  franco on Sat Jul 18, 2015 7:27 pm

    George1 wrote:Only 24x Smerch in service??

    Yes, the 79th Rocket Artillery brigade in T'ver and the 439th in Znamensk.
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    Re: Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:03 pm

    Thanks book and franco...


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    Re: Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread

    Post  flamming_python on Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:03 am

    George1 wrote:Only 24x Smerch in service??

    The new Tornado-Gs seem to have a greater range than the baseline Smerches did

    Just sayin'
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    franco

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    Re: Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread

    Post  franco on Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:26 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    George1 wrote:Only 24x Smerch in service??

    The new Tornado-Gs seem to have a greater range than the baseline Smerches did

    Just sayin'

    Thinking possible that is reason they have not been in a hurry to do the Tornado-U's and Tornado-S's. Maybe only a Tornado-S with 150km range is needed.
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    Re: Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jul 21, 2015 5:35 am

    Thinking possible that is reason they have not been in a hurry to do the Tornado-U's and Tornado-S's. Maybe only a Tornado-S with 150km range is needed.

    I can understand the delay with the Tornado-U... if you have a 40 tube 122mm rocket launcher firing to 150km then the urgent need for heavier rockets reduces... though their heavier payloads does improve performance on target.

    A new launcher that can carry 122mm, 220mm, and 300mm rockets is interesting though... of course with a few modifications like stabilisers you could almost get away just by dropping a couple of rocket pack modules on the back of a tip truck... the best features of rockets are accentuated when you get them in enormous numbers...


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    Re: Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread

    Post  eehnie on Sat Aug 29, 2015 5:03 pm

    franco wrote:SP Artillery Numbers
    - includes Ground Forces, Naval Infantry and Coastal plus Airborne
    - normal battalion has 18 firing pieces, rounded up to 20 to allow unit spares
    - does not include training, reserve or storage pieces

    2S1 - 340 (17 bns)
    2S3 - 840 (42 bns)
    2S4 - 8 (1 bn)
    2S5 - 140 (7 bns)
    2S7 - 12 (1 bn)
    2S9 - 370 (16 bns + 7 btys)
    2S19 - 600 (30 bns) last production received in 2014
    2S23 - ~50 not sure if used as a bn mortar bty
    2S34 - ~50 not sure if used as a bn mortar bty or replacing 2S1 bns
    2S35 - 12 delivered this year, main production starts next year
    A-222 - ~30 Berg 130mm Coastal Artillery, status not sure

    Rocket Artillery Numbers
    - broke down by caliber to include all types

    122 - 980 (49 bns) at least 8-10 bns have upgraded Tornado-G
    220 - ~200 ( 4 units of 24 and 8 units of 8 Uragan = 160 plus 5-15 units of 3 TOS-1A)
    300 - 24 (2 brigades of 12 each)

    SP Antitank Numbers
    - part of the Artillery & Rocket Forces
    - organized into companies of 9, rounded up to 10 to allow spares

    BTR-RD - 120 (12 coys) AT-4/5
    9P148 - 200 (20 coys) AT-5
    9P149 - 960 (96 coys) AT-6
    9P157 - ~50 (started production replacing the 9P149) AT-15
    Tigr/Kornet - ~10 (just delivered, starting production) AT-14
    2S25 - ~30 delivered, awaiting upgrading before resuming production

    It is very interesting, another way to contrast if the info of many sources is right or not.

    It would be posible to have the same scheme for no-man-portable towed artillery? Your point on it would be very interesting since many sources care less about towed artillery.
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    Re: Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread

    Post  franco on Sat Aug 29, 2015 5:50 pm

    It is very interesting, another way to contrast if the info of many sources is right or not.

    It would be posible to have the same scheme for no-man-portable towed artillery? Your point on it would be very interesting since many sources care less about towed artillery.


    I try to project these numbers from active units as opposed to what may be in storage etc.

    Towed Artillery

    2A18 D-30 122mm field howitzer - 120 (bn of 12 for 4 abn div = 48 plus bty of 6 for 4 abn bde = 24 plus bty of 6 for 8 spetz bde = 48)
    Nona-K 120mm gun/mortar - ~30 (maybe used in place of D-30's in some Spetz bdes)
    MT-12 Rapira 100mm gun - 270 (bty of 6 for 35 MR bdes plus bty of 6 for 10 arty bdes)
    2A36 152mm field gun - 100-120 (5-6 bn of 18 in 18th MG div (2) and Coastal Artillery bdes)
    2A65 152mm field howitzer - 160-200 (8-10 bn of 18 in Artillery bdes)

    Notes - you would expect the 100mm MT-12 AT gun to be obsolete for destroying tanks but the Russian artillery keeps it as an artillery "sniper" weapon
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    Re: Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread

    Post  eehnie on Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:10 am

    franco wrote:It is very interesting, another way to contrast if the info of many sources is right or not.

    It would be posible to have the same scheme for no-man-portable towed artillery? Your point on it would be very interesting since many sources care less about towed artillery.


    I try to project these numbers from active units as opposed to what may be in storage etc.

    Towed Artillery

    2A18 D-30 122mm field howitzer - 120 (bn of 12 for 4 abn div = 48 plus bty of 6 for 4 abn bde = 24 plus bty of 6 for 8 spetz bde = 48)
    Nona-K 120mm gun/mortar - ~30 (maybe used in place of D-30's in some Spetz bdes)
    MT-12 Rapira 100mm gun - 270 (bty of 6 for 35 MR bdes plus bty of 6 for 10 arty bdes)
    2A36 152mm field gun - 100-120 (5-6 bn of 18 in 18th MG div (2) and Coastal Artillery bdes)
    2A65 152mm field howitzer - 160-200 (8-10 bn of 18 in Artillery bdes)

    Notes - you would expect the 100mm MT-12 AT gun to be obsolete for destroying tanks but the Russian artillery keeps it as an artillery "sniper" weapon

    Thank you very much. It is very interesting the use of the MT-12 as "sniper" artillery. It seems that the heavy towed artillery has not a big presence in active service today, and the newer of them where created in the 80s. One of my doubts was about the 2A33 D-20 152mm, from your comment I understand it is not active today.

    franco wrote:I try to project these numbers from active units as opposed to what may be in storage etc.

    Certainly the reports about the units in reserve of towed artillery are a chaos. Sometime I will try to know more exactly about it.


    Last edited by eehnie on Thu May 12, 2016 9:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread

    Post  franco on Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:38 am

    Another of may doubts is about the systems that are not man-portable but are not as heavy as the previous. As example between 100Kg and 1000Kg. Do you considered them in this list? I'm thinking as example in the 2B11/2S12 Sani 120mm, 2B9, 2B23,... (systems of this size).

    There would be a bty of 6 mortars with Infantry type battalions. Sometimes 4 with the light or Special forces. By my count there are ~125 motor rifle battalions, 18 naval infantry bns, 36 airborne bns plus 16 spetsnaz bns. That will give a total of a 1200 maximum with about 70% being 120mm.
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    Re: Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread

    Post  GarryB on Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:14 pm

    It should be pointed out that for every MBT on the battlefield there will be dozens of even hundreds of much lighter vehicles and unarmoured vehicles and troop positions for which super high velocity 125mm guns are not needed.

    A towed gun does not have wonderful mobility, but when in position it is tiny and very hard to spot till it opens fire... by which time for the enemy it can be too late.

    Note the Soviets/Russians have developed a wide range of guided missile armament for their tank guns of all calibre and these missile rounds can be fired from towed guns too...


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    Re: Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread

    Post  eehnie on Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:45 pm

    franco wrote:Another of may doubts is about the systems that are not man-portable but are not as heavy as the previous. As example between 100Kg and 1000Kg. Do you considered them in this list? I'm thinking as example in the 2B11/2S12 Sani 120mm, 2B9, 2B23,... (systems of this size).

    There would be a bty of 6 mortars with Infantry type battalions. Sometimes 4 with the light or Special forces. By my count there are ~125 motor rifle battalions, 18 naval infantry bns, 36 airborne bns plus 16 spetsnaz bns. That will give a total of a 1200 maximum with about 70% being 120mm.

    Thank you very much.
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    Re: Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Sep 02, 2015 5:12 pm

    The Akatsiya self-propelled howitzer, in service since 1971, has gone smart with the help of an all-new system of automated homing and fire control.

    The 2S3M3 system also analyzses and relates a wealth of vital data to the crew, from the current location of both the gun and its target, all the way to automatic fire control. The system helps the gunners to better coordinate their action and ensures their survival in real-life combat situations. The addition of the 2S3M3 artificial “brain” has breathed new life into the veteran howitzer bringing it up to par with the most advanced modern-day counterparts and leaving 20th century artillery far behind.


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150902/1026492023/russia-howitzer-smart-technology.html#ixzz3kaue0YsK
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    Re: Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:06 pm

    JohninMK wrote:The Akatsiya self-propelled howitzer, in service since 1971, has gone smart with the help of an all-new system of automated homing and fire control.

    The 2S3M3 system also analyzses and relates a wealth of vital data to the crew, from the current location of both the gun and its target, all the way to automatic fire control. The system helps the gunners to better coordinate their action and ensures their survival in real-life combat situations. The addition of the 2S3M3 artificial “brain” has breathed new life into the veteran howitzer bringing it up to par with the most advanced modern-day counterparts and leaving 20th century artillery far behind.


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150902/1026492023/russia-howitzer-smart-technology.html#ixzz3kaue0YsK

    Sounds like this system:

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t3199p840-russian-ground-forces-news-2#115786
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    Re: Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread

    Post  franco on Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:50 am

    JohninMK wrote:The Akatsiya self-propelled howitzer, in service since 1971, has gone smart with the help of an all-new system of automated homing and fire control.

    The 2S3M3 system also analyzses and relates a wealth of vital data to the crew, from the current location of both the gun and its target, all the way to automatic fire control. The system helps the gunners to better coordinate their action and ensures their survival in real-life combat situations. The addition of the 2S3M3 artificial “brain” has breathed new life into the veteran howitzer bringing it up to par with the most advanced modern-day counterparts and leaving 20th century artillery far behind.


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150902/1026492023/russia-howitzer-smart-technology.html#ixzz3kaue0YsK

    I read about this being developed several years ago. If 1 in 3 of a platoon has this system, the other two can slave off the technology via data link.
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    Re: Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread

    Post  Militarov on Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:16 am

    I assume 2B16 Nona Ks are still in service in some numbers? From what i heard there are around 100ish in service, but what is bugging me why they never replaced D30s with towed Nonas, imo that would be good option since atm it looks like Russians are lacking newer light artillery systems.
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    Re: Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread

    Post  GarryB on Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:07 pm

    I suspect the plan is to get rid of the 122mm calibre completely, in tube artillery anyway, which suggests the 2S34 Hosta, which is the 2S1 122mm SPH with a 120mm gun/mortar replacing the 122mm gun shows the mechanised 122mm is going, so I would expect the 120mm NONA to replace the towed weapon in service too.


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    Re: Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread

    Post  franco on Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:27 pm

    GarryB wrote:I suspect the plan is to get rid of the 122mm calibre completely, in tube artillery anyway, which suggests the 2S34 Hosta, which is the 2S1 122mm SPH with a 120mm gun/mortar replacing the 122mm gun shows the mechanised 122mm is going, so I would expect the 120mm NONA to replace the towed weapon in service too.

    The 2S34 has apparently not worked out well. They are having recoil problems and can only get off about 4 rounds rapid fire before having to re-aim.


    Last edited by franco on Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    franco

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    Re: Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread

    Post  franco on Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:31 pm

    Militarov wrote:I assume 2B16 Nona Ks are still in service in some numbers? From what i heard there are around 100ish in service, but what is bugging me why they never replaced D30s with towed Nonas, imo that would be good option since atm it looks like Russians are lacking newer light artillery systems.

    Very few Nona-Ks are used and I'm not sure why. The D-30 could still be popular because of greater range and direct fire option.

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    Re: Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread

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