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    Su-25SM numbers

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    Viktor

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Viktor on Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:00 pm

    Here comes 10 more Su-25SM3

    2/15/13 ABOUT 10 NEW SU-25SM3 CAME AT AN AIR BASE IN SOUTH
    February 15 2013.


    RIA Novosti . The first batch of new Su-25SM3 at about ten units entering service airbase in the Krasnodar region, told reporters on Friday, a representative of the Southern Military District (SOUTH).

    "As part of the state defense order for the air base SOUTH unit located in the Krasnodar region, received the first batch of new Su-25 cm3 in the amount of about 10 units," - said the officer.

    He noted that at the same time with the rearmament of aircraft conducted retraining pilots to control this type of aircraft at the Center deployment and retraining of crew in the Lipetsk region.

    According to the representative SOUTH, today over 60% of pilots have been trained air base on the Su-25SM3. "At present, the newly arrived cars completed maintenance work. First scheduled flights newest attack aircraft combat training program is scheduled next week. Su-25SM3 an extensively modified version of the Su-25, and unlike its predecessor, can destroy tiny, movable and stationary ground objects without their visibility by day and night, as well as aerial targets, "- said the representative of the SOUTH.

    This modern aircraft is equipped with a satellite navigation system GLONASS (GPS) with the ability to program the end point on the map with an accuracy of 10 meters, which allows the pilot to operate independently without the support of ground services, not only in normal weather conditions, but also in the complex, with "zero" visibility. The cab has a digital display that shows the ground and air situation. Through a new satellite system aircraft was able to perform operational use at a height of almost 2 times higher than the Su-25. Thanks to extensive modernization, the combat effectiveness of the use of lethal Su-25SM3 increased up to three times. http://ria.ru/



    Vympel

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Vympel on Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:03 pm

    Why the heck is it Su-25SM3 anyway? Why isn't there an Su-25SM2? Or an Su-27SM2 for that matter?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  GarryB on Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:35 pm

    Hard to say, though to speculate the SU-25SM was the SM1, perhaps SM2 is an export version of SM and SM3 is the upgraded version for domestic use.

    Another possibility is that it is a translation mistake and that it isn't a 3 or number three at all as there is a Cyrillic letter that looks exactly like the roman numeral 3 and sounds like an English Z.

    Of course that would be a serious translation error as it should therefore be CM3 in Cyrillic properly translated to SMZ in English.

    The BM model is interesting too...


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    Vympel

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Vympel on Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:05 pm



    Su-25SM3 cockpit. No external changes visual on other screencaps.

    http://smartnews.ru/photostream/4912.html?photo_id=3#gallery
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    flamming_python

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  flamming_python on Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:39 pm

    GarryB wrote:Hard to say, though to speculate the SU-25SM was the SM1, perhaps SM2 is an export version of SM and SM3 is the upgraded version for domestic use.

    Another possibility is that it is a translation mistake and that it isn't a 3 or number three at all as there is a Cyrillic letter that looks exactly like the roman numeral 3 and sounds like an English Z.

    Of course that would be a serious translation error as it should therefore be CM3 in Cyrillic properly translated to SMZ in English.

    The BM model is interesting too...

    That's not the case but nice try Smile

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    GarryB

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  GarryB on Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:40 am

    Su-25SM3 cockpit. No external changes visual on other screencaps.

    Well at least it has a proper HUD instead of the gunsight of the original, and one MFD on the left hand side.


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    Vympel

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Vympel on Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:01 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Well at least it has a proper HUD instead of the gunsight of the original, and one MFD on the left hand side.

    Yeah, but in that regard its identical to the original Su-25SM, they've always had the HUD and MFD.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  GarryB on Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:15 am

    The Su-25SM3 will be flying very low... you don't want the pilot staring at MFDs inside the cockpit all the time... not good for your health.

    Hopefully they will be able to develop a nose package using the systems perfected for the Ka-52 and Mi-28N to allow him to find and engage ground targets in bad weather and at night if needed... even if it requires a pod.

    The most important upgrade I would like to see is a DIRCM system to defeat those pesky MANPADS.


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    Viktor

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Viktor on Tue May 21, 2013 4:56 pm

    4 targets at the same time. Nice new ability coupled with the new electronic suite.



    The Su-25 strike taught four goals at the same time


    Russian Defense Ministry has successfully completed the special stage of flight tests of modernized Su-25SM to increase their combat effectiveness. As informs "Interfax" referring to a source in the military-industrial complex, attack at the same time learn to hit four targets on the ground guided munitions.

    During the tests also confirmed the high efficiency of the new means of communication and a set of electronic warfare (EW) "Vitebsk-25." The complex, in particular, is equipped with a modern digital Jammer (TSSAP) A-370-3C, and can not only assess the radiation enemy radar, but also "inhibit" signals in a wide frequency range. In addition, the complex includes protection against missiles targeting the thermal head, which blinds the enemy ammunition with a laser beam.

    According to the source, the sharing of "Vitebsk-25" and the new ammunition significantly increased the fighting qualities of the Su-25SM, and expanded the scope of the attack aircraft.

    Previously announced plans to equip the Defense Su-25SM, and the Sukhoi Su-24 and Su-34, the new missile with a guidance system for GLONASS . The tests will begin ammunition in July 2013, the massive supply of missiles will begin in 2014.

    Under the upgrade to the Su-25SM3 gunships were reported to be able to carry out combat missions "without visual visibility day and night." In addition, the new avionics will allow stormtroopers to perform joint tasks with drones .


    LINK
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    TR1

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  TR1 on Tue May 21, 2013 10:07 pm

    Wonder what munitions they are talking about.

    The defense suit is the interesting thing here. I was not aware any sot of active IR defense was fitted yet. Media bs?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  GarryB on Wed May 22, 2013 3:30 am

    In addition, the complex includes protection against missiles targeting the thermal head, which blinds the enemy ammunition with a laser beam.

    That is a DIRCMs... I think Vitebsk-25 is the military designation for the President-M/-S system.

    Regarding the munitions... I would suspect they are talking about GLONASS guided bombs or missiles... or perhaps it is GLONASS guided HERMES?


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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Cyberspec on Wed May 22, 2013 11:39 am

    Viktor wrote:The Su-25 strike taught four goals at the same time...

    Nice....that's a significant upgrade compared to the original SM's...

    GarryB wrote:I think Vitebsk-25 is the military designation for the President-M/-S system.

    Vitebsk is the domestic variant of the President-S. I guess, the Vitebsk-25 is the variant for the Su-25
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    medo

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  medo on Wed May 22, 2013 4:17 pm

    Isn't Vitebsk a radar jammer to protect a plane from ARH missiles like AMRAAM? I hear that Vitebsk jammer will be also installed in Ka-52.
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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Cyberspec on Wed May 22, 2013 11:08 pm

    medo wrote:Isn't Vitebsk a radar jammer to protect a plane from ARH missiles like AMRAAM? I hear that Vitebsk jammer will be also installed in Ka-52.

    I'm pretty sure it's L370 Vitebsk produced by NII Ekran, marketed as "President-S" for export
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    GarryB

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  GarryB on Thu May 23, 2013 12:44 am

    Isn't Vitebsk a radar jammer to protect a plane from ARH missiles like AMRAAM? I hear that Vitebsk jammer will be also installed in Ka-52.

    I think Cyberspec is right... the self defence systems wont be separate components like they used to be, they will be suites of systems, and likely they wont custom design a system for each platform type, more likely they will develop a system and then make variants optimised for the platform it will be installed on.


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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Cyberspec on Thu May 23, 2013 12:13 pm

    GarryB wrote:...the self defence systems wont be separate components like they used to be, they will be suites of systems...

    Looks like it. The Vitebsk-25 apparently has both a radar jammer as well as laser-DIRCM system

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Vympel on Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:35 am

    Related:

    www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/6/0/1/2270106.jpg" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/6/0/1/2270106.jpg

    These Su-25T's are rotting away, being ignored probably.
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    TR1

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  TR1 on Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:48 am

    Yeah they have been out of service (aside from a few @ Kubinka for a while now).

    No point in keeping them around, they were very raw birds in any case.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:26 am

    I would suspect they would not be fully tested or operational as they were not accepted into service so their systems were probably not fully developed.

    It sounds like Sukhoi is going to be implementing a full upgrade of the Su-25s, to be followed in 2020 or so by a complete replacement for the Su-25 in CAS.


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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:53 pm

    I persoanally think that a future CAS doesn't need to have an LO airframe since it since it gives significantly lower weapon capacity and IR and optical missiles are more likely to be a threat along with gun AA rather than radar SAMs not to mention low altitude flight gives less radar signature and ECM can do an equal job.
    Instead I think the future Russian CAS should have the following components:
    -37-45mm revolver cannon or gunpods
    -APS against SAMs
    -improved ECM
    -lower IR signature
    -Composite ceramic or laminated armor capable of protecting against >20mm AP munitions
    -improved maneuverability and staying power on the battlefield
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:00 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:I persoanally think that a future CAS doesn't need to have an LO airframe since it since it gives significantly lower weapon capacity and IR and optical missiles are more likely to be a threat along with gun AA rather than radar SAMs not to mention low altitude flight gives less radar signature and ECM can do an equal job.
    Instead I think the future Russian CAS should have the following components:
    -37-45mm revolver cannon or gunpods
    -APS against SAMs
    -improved ECM
    -lower IR signature
    -Composite ceramic or laminated armor capable of protecting against >20mm AP munitions
    -improved maneuverability and staying power on the battlefield

    Spot on.

    The current and any future Su-25's (this goes along with all aircrafts) are to get new ECM/ECCM/EW sub-systems. The reason is specifically tied to the fact that SAM's were effective against RuAF in the 080808 war. Great planes, but with lack of these subsystems, any plane is heavily susceptible to SAM's.

    Su-25 is a great aircraft for what it does. Add on these electronic sub-systems with improved optical systems like a FLIR pod (or replace the system that is in the nose currently with some sort of FLIR system) and the aircraft would be significantly better. Actually, add on cheaper AT missiles to the aircraft as well, and it would be even more effective against tanks and would end up being a CAS aircraft.

    Wasn't there a guidance system at one point presented to Russian MoD for the S-8 missiles?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:06 pm

    Actually, add on cheaper AT missiles to the aircraft as well, and it would be even more effective against tanks and would end up being a CAS aircraft.

    The Shval-M system of the Su-25TM was a fairly sophisticated video processing system similar in concept to TV guided Mavericks except the optical system is in the nose of the aircraft and is used to direct a laser to aim the missiles (Vikhr-M) to targets. This way the missile is simple and cheap laser beam riding missiles but the system is precise and accurate and can engage almost any target because of its video lock rather than an IR or radar lock.

    A new system for use with Hermes missiles would be a very useful step.

    The guidance system for unguided rockets is called Ugroza.


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    sepheronx

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:07 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Actually, add on cheaper AT missiles to the aircraft as well, and it would be even more effective against tanks and would end up being a CAS aircraft.

    The Shval-M system of the Su-25TM was a fairly sophisticated video processing system similar in concept to TV guided Mavericks except the optical system is in the nose of the aircraft and is used to direct a laser to aim the missiles (Vikhr-M) to targets. This way the missile is simple and cheap laser beam riding missiles but the system is precise and accurate and can engage almost any target because of its video lock rather than an IR or radar lock.

    A new system for use with Hermes missiles would be a very useful step.

    The guidance system for unguided rockets is called Ugroza.

    Yes, I remember reading about the Su-25T many years ago. Too bad the system never went past the one or so prototypes. I heard it was very successful during the second Chechen war. Really did not understand why they did not go further with them.
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    TR1

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  TR1 on Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:28 pm

    On the contrary, the plane showed how raw it was in Chechnya. Both in flight performance and in the systems.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:26 pm

    It was also rather expensive... particularly the optical attack system called Shkval-M, which is related to the system fitted to the Ka-50 Hokum.

    Personally I would love to see some of the systems developed for the Ka-52 and Mi-28N/M fitted to the Su-25 in the form of the optics and radar, and of course the Vitebsk system is a huge step forward in terms of defence for the aircraft.

    Improved avionics that increase the effectiveness of dumb unguided weapons, plus lots of guided weapons would be a good step forward. Certainly if they buy a batch of Vikhrs then they would be a very useful addition to its armoury with two pylons carrying 16 guided missiles able to take out point targets out to 15km in the later models.


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