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    Su-25SM numbers

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    franco
    franco

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  franco on Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:01 pm

    3 more Su-25SM3 arrived in the Krasnodar.

    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/113595/
    d_taddei2
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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  d_taddei2 on Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:42 pm

    Off topic slightly. but what's people's view on disadvantages and advantages between su-25 and A-10.

    Also can anyone confirm ceiling height for su-25 keep getting various figures from various sources some seem very low to the point that means su-25 unable to stay out of manpad range. I know that this type of aircraft normally flies low in its role but I'd still expect it to be able to stay out of manpad range in certain missions. 

    Also I read that it's target tracking radar range for ground targets was only 8km range this true? I would of thought it to have been further 

    and correct me if I am wrong su-25 are no longer produced as the factory in Georgia was destroyed in the short war with Russia or has sukhoi got a factory in Russia producing aircraft
    Isos
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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Isos on Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:09 pm

    Su25 doesn't have radar. They fly at max 7-8km altitude while manpad are limited to 2 or 3 km.

    Su-25T is better. It has more weapons.

    The T variant is as good as a-10 in destroying tanks. Advantage to the su-25 for SEAD mission with much bigger and supersonic missiles.

    Normal su-25 is outdated and pretty bad.

    No more production. Only upgrades.
    GarryB
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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:59 am

    Off topic slightly. but what's people's view on disadvantages and advantages between su-25 and A-10.

    In practical terms the A-10 was a hunter that would operate over the front line or behind enemy lines looking for convoys of vehicles of any type to shoot up with cannon or guided anti armour missile in the form of the Maverick.

    It was sort of a mix of CAS and short range strike, so it needed range and lots of guided missiles, and a gun with a large amount of ammo... which is basically what it was.

    The Su-25 was more of a ground support aircraft like a stuka, but instead of dive bombing it would generally use conventional bombs from very low level and direct fire unguided rockets and cannon.

    It could carry guided weapons but not very often and normally it was something like an AS-10 laser homing missile for use against point enemy positions like bunkers or buildings...

    The Su-25 didn't need long range or incredibly heavy payload, but was small and fast and with direct delivery of weapons accurate enough.

    Various upgrades that didn't really catch on included the Su-25T and later Su-25TM, which added the SHKVAL EO system similar to the one carried by the Ka-50 Hokum, which allowed it to also carry and use the Vikhr ATGM, which was actually rather impressive for its time in terms of detecting and auto tracking targets.

    It had no thermal capability and was purely optical so it wasn't all weather capable.

    The T and TM upgrades were rejected for being too complicated and expensive... a bit like the rejection of the SMT upgrades for the MiG-29... it made the aircraft rather more capable, but without the high tech precision weapons in mass production they were just more complicated to service... Vikhr was ordered a few years ago but in the 90s and early 2000s they didn't have it in stocks...

    A new low drag pylon holding 4-8 Ataka missiles could have been rather useful for the Frogfoot...

    The Su-25SM3 has a lot of basic improvements including DIRCMS and the built in EO system looks rather good too, but the focus is still flying near friendly troops on the front line dropping dumb bombs and firing unguided rockets at enemy positions rather than standoff attack with guided missiles.

    The original factory was in Georgia, but there is a factory in Russia that produced the two seat version... the Su-25T and TM were based on the two seat model so more avionics could be added...

    Have read about a few western pilots who were given a chance to fly some Soviet types and they all wanted to fly the MiG-29 or Su-27, but some flew the Su-25 and were surprised at how much they liked it... It seems to be a good little aircraft with few vices and easy to fly, with good manouver performance.
    medo
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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  medo on Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:24 am

    For Su-25SM3 we could say that its improvements were done exactly for stand off precision operations. It got new MAWS sensors, not DIRCM and new ECM pods for self defense. New Pastel RWR was tested with Su-25SM3 to use Kh-58 anti-radar missiles. New EO sight SOLT-25 include thermovision camera for night operations and it got new data link communication. New navigation complex with GLONASS satnav give high precision bombings capabilities with unguided bombs from higher safe altitudes. Su-25SM3 also got new armament, like TV guided bombs and missiles and satellite guided bombs like new satellite guided gliding cluster bomb PBK-500U Drel with 30 km range. Bazalt also plan to equip this bomb with pulsejet engine to increse range to at least 80 km.
    higurashihougi
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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  higurashihougi on Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:31 am

    d_taddei2 wrote:Off topic slightly. but what's people's view on disadvantages and advantages between su-25 and A-10.

    Su-25 is designed for dive bombing surgical strike, therefore people demand high maneuverability, and they concentrate all the weights into the center of gravity.

    Which means all important parts are put in more or less a single chamber and therefore save material and increase armor thickness.

    Meanwhile A-10 is optimized for gun firing and it emphasize stability, therefore everything is spreaded out.
    d_taddei2
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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  d_taddei2 on Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:16 pm

    Hi all thanks for the info and info on loaded ceiling height? manpads have upto 5km range does the su-25 operate above this? Or will it relay on the defensive systems only. many sources seem to indicate very low ceiling height. I did always see A-10 as similar but not the same in roles. I remember reading a report on it saying that it's engines were very robust and sand gravel etc didn't seem to bother the aircraft. 

    I wonder if the su-25sm3 will be the last cas aircraft in Russian service will drones be the future ?
    GarryB
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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:30 pm

    They continue investing in attack helos so I suspect they want aircraft to operate at low altitudes on the battlefield...

    There has been talk of a PAK Sh or something intended to replace the Frogfoot, but I really don't see the point in making it stealthy... radar is hardly a common threat for CAS aircraft... that is why they fly so low.
    Isos
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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Isos on Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:38 am

    GarryB wrote:They continue investing in attack helos so I suspect they want aircraft to operate at low altitudes on the battlefield...

    There has been talk of a PAK Sh or something intended to replace the Frogfoot, but I really don't see the point in making it stealthy... radar is hardly a common threat for CAS aircraft... that is why they fly so low.

    CAS jets are full of weapons that you can't store in weapon bays unless you carry few of them specially rockets and atgm. So can't be stealthy anyway.

    Su-25 is very good only need better avionics, radar and a targeting pod.

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