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    Su-25SM numbers

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    Isos

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Isos on Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:13 am

    GarryB wrote:Interesting vid of the missile launch fail.

    I remember having a discussion with someone on the internet about the cold launch system for Russian SAMs and he was convinced that the cold launch system was flawed because if it was thrown up into the air and dropped down onto the deck such a large solid fuelled missile would immediately explode and set all the other missiles on fire and practically destroy the ship.

    He suggested the cold launch system should be angled out so that ejected missiles would land in the water if they did not start properly.

    Of course I did not think the cold launch system would fire if there was something wrong with the launch system.

    Of course having said that a cold launch system is actually a good thing because this missile did nothing but sometimes when a solid rocket motor fails, it often just explodes, so exploding inside the missile tube would seriously damage the vehicle it is mounted on and risks setting off other nearby missiles.

    Having said all that your comments about the rough air field performance of the Su-25 are interesting.

    I remember seeing a video done during the testing of the aircraft where they removed the wheels and fitted skis for takeoff and landing in deep mud.... now that was impressive.

    The explosion is not really dangerous. They are are not HEAT missile but carries a lot of small metalic fins to dammage aircrafts. There is one of the missile that explodes in the video and it disn t made the other explode.

    It is dangerous to move a missile that didnt explode however on a ship because the explosion is dangerous for humans. But the main warehead is hardly going to explode they are not WWII bombs that explode when the bomb isn t moving anymore or made with a timer and mechanical fuser. Most of them are programmed to not explode near the lunch site or for a part of the flight.

    Do you have of the video of the su25 ?? That should be awsome to watch !!
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  d_taddei2 on Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:35 pm

    Anyone know approximately the cost of
    Su-25SM ($30mn?)
    Su-25SM3 ????
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    franco

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  franco on Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:27 am

    d_taddei2 wrote:Anyone know approximately the cost of
    Su-25SM ($30mn?)
    Su-25SM3 ????

    25SM and 25SM3 are both rebuilds and not new. The 25SM3 costs were announced as approximately $6.5 ml US per to upgrade a Su-25 to Su-25SM3.

    http://twower.livejournal.com/2120002.html
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    GarryB

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  GarryB on Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:38 am

    The explosion is not really dangerous. They are are not HEAT missile but carries a lot of small metalic fins to dammage aircrafts. There is one of the missile that explodes in the video and it disn t made the other explode.

    Sorry what?

    That missile carries a 150kg HE Frag warhead and yes it would be very devastating if it did explode properly.

    In this case nothing exploded.

    In the case you mention I expect it was the propellent that exploded.

    If the warhead had exploded all the other missiles nearby would also have been exploded and there would have been a huge crater.

    A 50kh HE bomb will kill the crew of an Abrams tank.... the pressure wave crushes them but also sets off the ammo inside too.

    An explosion three times bigger is a much bigger problem...


    Do you have of the video of the su25 ?? That should be awsome to watch !!

    No, unfortunately I don't.

    I saw the video on a TV programme, but I have seen stills from the video in a book.

    Here is a still image:



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    Isos

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Isos on Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:10 am

    GarryB wrote:
    The explosion is not really dangerous. They are are not HEAT missile but carries a lot of small metalic fins to dammage aircrafts. There is one of the missile that explodes in the video and it disn t made the other explode.

    Sorry what?

    That missile carries a 150kg HE Frag warhead and yes it would be very devastating if it did explode properly.

    In this case nothing exploded.

    In the case you mention I expect it was the propellent that exploded.

    If the warhead had exploded all the other missiles nearby would also have been exploded and there would have been a huge crater.

    A 50kh HE bomb will kill the crew of an Abrams tank.... the pressure wave crushes them but also sets off the ammo inside too.

    An explosion three times bigger is a much bigger problem...


    Do you have of the video of the su25 ?? That should be awsome to watch !!

    No, unfortunately I don't.

    I saw the video on a TV programme, but I have seen stills from the video in a book.

    Here is a still image:




    That's not only 150 kg of explosives. The warehead is 150 kg, its warehead is composed of some thousands of metal pieces. Most of pilots downed by missiles survived and at altitude the explosives are much more powerfull.

    There are lot of video showing IED exploding near tanks ans they survived. The main goal of the explosive is to send those small piece on the aircraft, not to kill the pilot. Im not an expert at all in this field but you can't jude the power of it just by the weight.

    There are much more chances in such scenario that just the propellent explode. And thats pretty safe. There was another video of ukrainian toshka exploding and not dammaging the other one that was 10 m near.


    That is a very nice xoncept if it could be lunch from the water it would be very usefull so that they don't need airports. Like landing on the water and stoping on the ground so that it doesn t end at the bottom.
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  d_taddei2 on Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:33 am

    franco wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:Anyone know approximately the cost of
    Su-25SM ($30mn?)
    Su-25SM3 ????

    25SM and 25SM3 are both rebuilds and not new. The 25SM3 costs were announced as approximately $6.5 ml US per to upgrade a Su-25 to Su-25SM3.

    http://twower.livejournal.com/2120002.html

    But if Russia was to sell Su-25SM3 to another country? ?
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    franco

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  franco on Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:51 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    franco wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:Anyone know approximately the cost of
    Su-25SM ($30mn?)
    Su-25SM3 ????

    25SM and 25SM3 are both rebuilds and not new. The 25SM3 costs were announced as approximately $6.5 ml US per to upgrade a Su-25 to Su-25SM3.

    http://twower.livejournal.com/2120002.html

    But if Russia was to sell Su-25SM3 to another country? ?

    Not sure of a price but they would have to take the aircraft from their stock so until a replacement is found probably is not happening. They may upgrade the customers present stock and I'm sure the price would be higher then $6.5 ml.
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  d_taddei2 on Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:46 pm

    franco wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:
    franco wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:Anyone know approximately the cost of
    Su-25SM ($30mn?)
    Su-25SM3 ????

    25SM and 25SM3 are both rebuilds and not new. The 25SM3 costs were announced as approximately $6.5 ml US per to upgrade a Su-25 to Su-25SM3.

    http://twower.livejournal.com/2120002.html

    But if Russia was to sell Su-25SM3 to another country? ?

    Not sure of a price but they would have to take the aircraft from their stock so until a replacement is found probably is not happening. They may upgrade the customers present stock and I'm sure the price would be higher then $6.5 ml.

    Isn't there any in reserve? I thought only so much of the fleet were being upgraded
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    franco

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  franco on Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:34 pm

    The VKS maintains 10 operational squadrons presently, plus some training aircraft, so you are looking at 150-160 active aircraft of which ~ 80 are 25SM. There would be around 50 or so in storage.
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  d_taddei2 on Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:48 pm

    franco wrote:The VKS maintains 10 operational squadrons presently, plus some training aircraft, so you are looking at 150-160 active aircraft of which ~ 80 are 25SM. There would be around 50 or so in storage.

    Ok so small potential for sales. I think offering upgrades could be more lucrative.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:51 am


    "Grach" protected


    Updated Su-25 is immune to missile attacks of MANPADS


    We all experienced as a personal grief the death of pilot Roman Filipov, rightly awarded the title of Hero. The situation in which the downed pilot was, left him no chance to escape, and he acted like a real warrior. More Su-25, known even under the name "Grach", will not be destroyed from MANPADS.
    At the airbase in Kubinka there is a large batch of real super-Su-25SM3 superstructures ready for dispatch to the troops. In fact, under a well-known name, cars, one might say, of a new generation will enter the system. At the Su-25SM3 new on-board radio-electronic equipment is installed, and exclusively domestic development and production. Upgraded avionics will allow the use of more modern missiles, including guided missiles, as well as corrected air bombs.

    The stormtroopers had the opportunity to strike not only all types of ground targets, but also to conduct an air battle. They have a wide range of speeds - from almost a thousand to one hundred kilometers per hour without stalling in a tailspin. The practical ceiling of the Su-25SM3 reaches ten thousand meters. Without refueling, it can fly 1850 km. Su-25SM3 will also be effective in combating unmanned aerial vehicles. "Rooks" received satellite navigation GLONASS. According to experts, it allows you to specify the final point of flight with an accuracy of ten meters. That is, even in conditions of reduced visibility, the attack aircraft will definitely reach the designated target and will deal a crushing blow.

    As a result of all innovations, the combat effectiveness of the new-old aircraft increased almost threefold.



    The combat effectiveness of the Su-25SM3 in comparison with the Su-25 increased almost threefold
    But perhaps most importantly, the stormtroopers received almost absolute protection from MANPADS. In Russia, they were able to create a complex that is guaranteed to protect against missiles with thermal homing heads such as "Stinger" or "Needle."

    Complexes are called "Vitebsk". They are installed on all Ka-52 helicopters. In general, according to the order of the commander-in-chief of the Air Force Colonel-General Alexander Zelin, not a single rotorcraft designed for operation in hot spots should be sent to the troops without the Vitebsk complex on board. Therefore, they are equipped with Mi-8 in Syria. The efficiency of the complex has already been confirmed. The Russian Mi-8 helicopter, transporting a humanitarian cargo in the province of Ham on October 8, 2016, was fired from a man-portable air defense missile system. The rocket passed by. To this day, not one of our helicopters, equipped with such a complex, missile of MANPADS was shot down.


    https://rg.ru/2018/02/11/obnovlennyj-su-25-stal-neuiazvim-dlia-raketnyh-udarov-pzrk.html



    so why they didnt send this one toSyria huh?
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    franco

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  franco on Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:59 am

    There are only 5 active so far, apparently another 16 will soon be joining them.
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    Isos

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Isos on Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:54 am

    Can't they make a pod with missile detectors and flares ? Su-25 has lot of hardpoints and it would be fast to make it.
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    Cheetah

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Cheetah on Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:37 am

    Interesting to see how the downing of that Su-25 has prompted a few reassuring messages from manufacturers.

    I believe there's an article on Sputnik which stated that the changes in the SM3 variant would make it "100-percent" protected against manPADS. Now, Russia has some serious engineering prowess, and has shown that to no end over the last century, but messages like that are really just for average-joe readers to digest and feel at ease. Fact of the matter is, there will always be a scenario where the system fails to do its job, and as the system becomes more common place among Russian jets, the more likely a response will be developed. This is all well and good, and is the natural flow of things, sure.

    Here's what really gets me, though. The recent advancement of IR missile seekers has been mentioned earlier. Both Russia and the US are working towards missiles that are no longer fooled by flares and have shown decent success. That is why Sukhoi has gone though so much trouble to develop a system based on different principals to tackle the IR threat for the Su-57.

    This leads one to wonder exactly how practical it will be to add the proposed system to X number of Su-25s, when the threat they were designed to defend against has already evolved into something more capable.


    Sputik article:
    https://sputniknews.com/russia/201802121061571364-jet-manpads-protection/
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    medo

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  medo on Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:47 pm

    I wonder, when will RuAF start modernizing their twin seaters Su-25UBs. It's nonsense to have non modernized twin seaters with modernized Su-25SM, but even more nonsense to have non modernized twin seaters with Su-25SM3. It's like having MiG-21UB with Su-27 fighters. They need to modernize them to SM3 standard.
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    franco

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  franco on Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:54 pm

    medo wrote:I wonder, when will RuAF start modernizing their twin seaters Su-25UBs. It's nonsense to have non modernized twin seaters with modernized Su-25SM, but even more nonsense to have non modernized twin seaters with Su-25SM3. It's like having MiG-21UB with Su-27 fighters. They need to modernize them to SM3 standard.

    My understanding is one or two were but then it was decided that the frames were too used and not worth the investment.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Militarov on Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:58 pm

    franco wrote:
    medo wrote:I wonder, when will RuAF start modernizing their twin seaters Su-25UBs. It's nonsense to have non modernized twin seaters with modernized Su-25SM, but even more nonsense to have non modernized twin seaters with Su-25SM3. It's like having MiG-21UB with Su-27 fighters. They need to modernize them to SM3 standard.

    My understanding is one or two were but then it was decided that the frames were too used and not worth the investment.

    Yeah, they are flown-out. Have about 8-10 years more of service life.
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    AMCXXL

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  AMCXXL on Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:48 pm

    franco wrote:There are only 5 active so far, apparently another 16 will soon be joining them.

    There are no one SU-25SM(3) in service. The airplanes in Syria are Su-25SM of the South Military District (Mainly Primorsko-Akhtarsk ans some of Crimea as the lost one last week)

    It was made of first bath a total of 43 , including 3 for replace Georgian Was loses
    Of the second batch was made 41 that included updates after the Georgian War experience , and the 41 including a contract for 36 (8 2011, 12 2012 , 16 2013) and other of 5 for Kant on 2014
    Sincé then , the program of modernization is stopped

    For the moment only one photo was shown at Kubinka (Nº50) , despite the airplanes are flying since about 2-3 months
    Of the 16 , the first to are a pilot batch of two from Buddyonovsk (Su-25SM of forst batch)
    The other are two contract for 14 (5+9) that will go to one squadron of Primorsko-Akhtarsk and probably a couple of examples for Lípetsk.
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    franco

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  franco on Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:07 pm

    AMCXXL wrote:
    franco wrote:There are only 5 active so far, apparently another 16 will soon be joining them.

    There are no one SU-25SM(3) in service. The airplanes in Syria are Su-25SM of the South Military District (Mainly Primorsko-Akhtarsk ans some of Crimea as the lost one last week)

    It was made of first bath a total of 43 , including 3 for replace Georgian Was loses
    Of the second batch was made 41 that included updates after the Georgian War experience , and the 41 including a contract for 36 (8 2011, 12 2012 , 16 2013) and other of 5 for Kant on 2014
    Sincé then , the program of modernization is stopped

    For the moment only one photo was shown at Kubinka (Nº50) , despite the airplanes are flying since about 2-3 months
    Of the 16 , the first to are a pilot batch of two from Buddyonovsk (Su-25SM of forst batch)
    The other are two contract for 14 (5+9) that will go to one squadron of Primorsko-Akhtarsk and probably a couple of examples for Lípetsk.

    There were 5 delivered in 2016 and they were involved in testing last year. Reported on several occasions by the MoD. Perhaps they are included in that 16 total apparently sitting at Kubinka awaiting deployment. As for the -25SM version, your figures match what I have read.
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  JohninMK on Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:19 am


    RussianDefence.com
    ‏ @Russian_Defence
    1h1 hour ago
    Replying to @Russian_Defence

    (Finally!) February 2018 image of #Sukhoi-25SM3 at Kubinka, with a pair of L-370-3S radar jamming pods on outermost wing hardpoints where now redundant A-60 (NATO AA-Cool pylon used to sit - part of Vitebsk-25 #EOCM & #MAWS suite.
    2018 ©️ Vanek Sklyarov


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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Cyberspec on Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:57 am

    Nice...

    I'm getting overwhelmed with all this good news all at once Very Happy
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:03 pm


    No news, just epic photo love
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    GarryB

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:48 am

    Wow... that is a really odd photo as it is carrying AA-8 AAMs, which they don't any more, but it also has UB-32-57 rocket pods which they have not really used since the war in Afghanistan... the 57mm rockets being found to be rather too light to be effective...

    Any information about where and when this photo was taken, and who the aircraft belongs to?
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    George1

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  George1 on Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:45 am

    News also...:

    Interfax src:"22 Su-25SM3s to be transferred to the MoD in April 2018"
    http://www.interfax.ru/russia/603142

    "large number of Su-25(SM)s are planned for SM3 ('deep')upgrade under State Armaments Program(GPV) to 2027,but the relevant contracts have not yet been signed"
    http://militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=475842
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:48 am

    GarryB wrote:Wow... that is a really odd photo as it is carrying AA-8 AAMs, which they don't any more, but it also has UB-32-57 rocket pods which they have not really used since the war in Afghanistan... the 57mm rockets being found to be rather too light to be effective...

    Any information about where and when this photo was taken, and who the aircraft belongs to?

    No clue, found it on sdelanounas.ru and thought I'd post it because it looks cool

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

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