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    Su-25SM numbers

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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:06 am

    Militarov wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    franco wrote:So approximately $6.5 ml US per to upgrade a Su-25 to Su-25SM3.

    http://twower.livejournal.com/2120002.html

    That's a hefty price tag.

    I haven't heard how many they plan to upgrade the thing is if they do to little there is no point to the program if they upgrade all of them that's is a nice chunk of change for something one can argue isn't worth the buck.

    80 are to be modernised.

    So 520 Million for 80's SM3's eh that's a reasonable price.

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  T-47 on Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:10 pm

    Whats the difference between SM and SM3?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  GarryB on Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:13 pm

    6.5 million to upgrade an aircraft from basic dumb bomb and rocket and IR guided AAM and cannon with very basic EW equipment and little to no targeting equipment, to a very capable day night and all weather aircraft with DIRCMs self defence system and guided air to ground and air to air weapons with targeting system the equal of any modern attack aircraft...

    The original could use laser guided bombs, but the upgraded aircraft can use cheap dumb bombs with comparable performance to laser guided bombs and rockets... 6.5 mil spent to save lots and lots of money while at the same time making the aircraft safer and more capable.

    BTW the TM models were rather expensive too as the Shkval EO system was not cheap, but had no thermal channel so it was day and night capable but not all weather...


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    Isos

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Isos on Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:49 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    franco wrote:So approximately $6.5 ml US per to upgrade a Su-25 to Su-25SM3.

    http://twower.livejournal.com/2120002.html

    That's a hefty price tag.

    I haven't heard how many they plan to upgrade the thing is if they do to little there is no point to the program if they upgrade all of them that's is a nice chunk of change for something one can argue isn't worth the buck.

    Su 25 price is something like 12 million. Modernisation half of this. Maybe restarting the production wouldn't be a bad idea. Its export potential would be huge.

    T-47

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  T-47 on Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:08 pm

    Isos wrote:Su 25 price is something like 12 million. Modernisation half of this. Maybe restarting the production wouldn't be a bad idea. Its export potential would be huge.

    Will it? Not many countries need/want to operate a separate type of aircraft right now, customers want multi-role stuffs. Also $12M is the old price tag I think. New SM3s should cost more. My guess at least ~$20M.

    But still I think Sukhoi can personally rebuild the aircraft. Same design but with completely new and upgraded engines and other parts and materials. They can at least try presenting it.
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    Isos

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Isos on Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:11 pm

    T-47 wrote:
    Isos wrote:Su 25 price is something like 12 million. Modernisation half of this. Maybe restarting the production wouldn't be a bad idea. Its export potential would be huge.

    Will it? Not many countries need/want to operate a separate type of aircraft right now, customers want multi-role stuffs. Also $12M is the old price tag I think. New SM3s should cost more. My guess at least ~$20M.

    But still I think Sukhoi can personally rebuild the aircraft. Same design but with completely new and upgraded engines and other parts and materials. They can at least try presenting it.

    There lot of countries that can't have multitole fighters and are looking for something cheap. Users of su 25 are many.
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  d_taddei2 on Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:17 pm

    It's also rugged and reliable and can operate from not so great runways to which countries looking for such aircraft will most likely need all these characteristics. Poorer countries would benefit from Su-25SM3, Mi-35M, Yak-130 multi role, mix this would provide a great cheap all round airforce, and if money allowed Mig-29M2/SMT.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:52 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:It's also rugged and reliable and can operate from not so great runways to which countries looking for such aircraft will most likely need all these characteristics. Poorer countries would benefit from Su-25SM3, Mi-35M, Yak-130 multi role, mix this would provide a great cheap all round airforce, and if money allowed Mig-29M2/SMT.

    Too specialized for today's market.

    They'll have better chances with dedicated combat version of Yak-130.
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  d_taddei2 on Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:48 pm

    And yet still no real show combat yak-130 being purchased just trainers I believe but I could be wrong. Should show case the yak-130 in Syria using weapons out of range of anti air guns. But I suppose the SyAF has been using L-39 fairly effectively using rocket pods
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    Benya

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Benya on Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:05 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:It's also rugged and reliable and can operate from not so great runways to which countries looking for such aircraft will most likely need all these characteristics. Poorer countries would benefit from Su-25SM3, Mi-35M, Yak-130 multi role, mix this would provide a great cheap all round airforce, and if money allowed Mig-29M2/SMT.

    Too specialized for today's market.

    They'll have better chances with dedicated combat version of Yak-130.

    AFAIK a new attack aircraft with lower RCS named PAK-ShA (Перспективный авиационный комплекс штурмовой авиации, Perspektivny Aviatsionniy Kompleks Shturmovoy Aviatsii, Prospective Aviation Complex, Attack Aviation) has been proposed.

    I think that the fuselage of the Yak-130 is just too small to accomodate a "titanium bathtub", it would also need some additional armor for the fuel tanks/engine(s) etc.

    That new aircraft will surely have these, plus a lot (if not a plethora) of integrated of soft-kill systems to jam/disable enemy SHORAD radars, infrared guidance systems of MANPADS and many more.
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    Isos

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Isos on Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:10 pm

    Benya wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:It's also rugged and reliable and can operate from not so great runways to which countries looking for such aircraft will most likely need all these characteristics. Poorer countries would benefit from Su-25SM3, Mi-35M, Yak-130 multi role, mix this would provide a great cheap all round airforce, and if money allowed Mig-29M2/SMT.

    Too specialized for today's market.

    They'll have better chances with dedicated combat version of Yak-130.

    AFAIK a new attack aircraft with lower RCS named PAK-ShA (Перспективный авиационный комплекс штурмовой авиации, Perspektivny Aviatsionniy Kompleks Shturmovoy Aviatsii, Prospective Aviation Complex, Attack Aviation) has been proposed.

    I think that the fuselage of the Yak-130 is just too small to accomodate a "titanium bathtub", it would also need some additional armor for the fuel tanks/engine(s) etc.

    That new aircraft will surely have these, plus a lot (if not a plethora) of integrated of soft-kill systems to jam/disable enemy SHORAD radars, infrared guidance systems of MANPADS and many more.

    If it is supposed to carry rocket luncher, the reduction of RCS is just waste of money. Look at a full armed Su-25, it's just impossible to hide it to radar unless it has much more fuel so it can fly low all the way long.
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  d_taddei2 on Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:51 am

    I never meant that Yak-130 as a replacement of Su-25, they are two different aircraft the yak is a light multi role and is ideal for that job especially when enemy has low level air defence and your airforce is on a tight budget also operating costs cheap and no need for a pristine runways

    T-47

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  T-47 on Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:46 pm

    Repeating my question: Anybody care to explain the difference between SM and SM3?
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:39 pm

    Biggest would be the Solt-25 targeting system for Su-25SM3 while SM was more basic using existing systems.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:05 pm

    Actually the Su-25 is subsonic but could be fitted with decent AAMs in the TM model... R-73 and R-77 and R-27 are not missiles to be sneezed at... its main problem is lack of a proper radar.

    A new build model with a decent nose mounted radar and shift the nose mounted optics to a belly mounted targeting pod an you have a decent light fighter bomber.

    With DIRCMS the risk of IR guided missiles is greatly reduced so a slight wing sweep and engines with AB could expand its operational envelope to include trans sonic speeds for a light fighter version...

    When the Su-25 and A-10 were created MANPADS were the biggest threat but using a turbojet engine with afterburner was a no no.

    These days MANPADS could detect and hit aircraft with propellers let alone full AB turbojet engines so the reason for not fitting them has pretty much gone really.

    Of course speed is not that useful for actual ground attack missions, so only the fighter bomber version would benefit from more powerful engines.

    Edit: There was talk of a UAV that is tethered to armata tank vehicles with radar and IR sensors to detect targets while flying above a tank preferably in concealment or cover.

    Those sensors expanded to aircraft size could be fitted to an upgraded Su-25 to improve performance.

    Some unification of sensors could be looked at so that new attack helos and new attack aircraft and new UCAVs could collect the same standard of data on the battlefield.


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    T-47

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  T-47 on Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:40 pm

    I don't think it has any potential in RuAF, only for export maybe. But I'll choose Yak-130 instead of Su-25 for that role. Modification work will be less.
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  d_taddei2 on Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:40 pm

    T-47 wrote:I don't think it has any potential in RuAF, only for export maybe. But I'll choose Yak-130 instead of Su-25 for that role. Modification woork will be less.

    I quite agree with less modifications and upgrades needed and it was already designed with light attack in mind. The yak 130 could also accompany the Su-25 on missions providing anti air and recce information this would free up other aircraft doing the same role. Although I have said before and will state it again the yak -130 is not a replacement for Su-25 completely different aircraft one ideal for CAS the other light multi role. The beauty about both is that there relatively cheap to buy and maintain
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    AMCXXL

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  AMCXXL Yesterday at 3:52 am

    T-47 wrote:Repeating my question: Anybody care to explain the difference between SM and SM3?

    http://charly015.blogspot.com.es/2017/08/16-su-25sm3-para-el-distrito-militar.html





    About the number contracted , are 14 for the moment:

    5 Su-25SM3 contracted in dec-2015 , for delivery before 20-dic-2016 (It seems still not deployed)
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1608752.html
    The ordered batch of five aircraft will be the starting point for the serial upgrade to the Su-25SM3 version, up to now the modernization has been carried out to the level of Su-25SM. By 2014 inclusive, 84 ground-attack aircraft were modernized, including four experienced, of which .To date, five Su-25SM have been lost from them. Two Su-25SM are used to develop the next stages of modernization(SM3)

    9 Su-25SM3 contracted in may-2016 , for delivery before 25-nov-2017
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1919182.html
    Order for another nine modernized Su-25SM3 assault aircraft
    Work must be completed on time from the entry into force of the contract until 25 November 2017. It is noted that repair with modernization of the Su-25 is carried out to ensure the standards of airworthiness and maintain the required level of flight safety and combat effectiveness of aircraft of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.
    According to the state procurement portal, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation previously announced an electronic auction with a starting price of 1.75 billion rubles for the modernization of five Su-25s in the Su-25SM3 by December 20 of this year. The contract was won by JSC "121 aircraft repair plant".



    For the moment only Nº50 (ex-Nº02 Su-25SM of 368 ShAP , Budyennovesk) was seen in Kubinka
    The South military district have:
    -368º ShAP Budyennovsk  2 squadrons Su-25SM , received 27 planes , 4 lost in Georgia and 1 later. Remaining 22. Two used for SU-25SM3 modernization
    -960º ShAP Primorsko-Akhtarsk: 1 sqdn. Su-25SM and other sqdn. Su-25
    -37º SAP Gvardeyskoye-Simferopol:  1 sqdn. Su-25SM (received from Primorsko-Akhtarsk)

    As the information says 16 to be deployed, but 14 contracted and 2 SU-25SM upgraded to SM3 , this means: ,
    -2 Su-25SM from 368º upgraded to Su-25SM3 , will return to 368º
    -2 will go 368º for complete regiment
    -one squadron of 12 for 960º
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  miketheterrible Yesterday at 6:23 am

    SM3 uses solt-25 not klen anymore.

    T-47

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  T-47 Yesterday at 2:57 pm

    Well I don't know what language is that but I got some idea. Thanks AMCXXL
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    George1

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  George1 Yesterday at 4:02 pm

    @AMCXXL can you give us total numbers of Su-25's ?


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    AMCXXL

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  AMCXXL Yesterday at 5:39 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:SM3 uses solt-25 not klen anymore.

    First graphic : Su-25SM3 visual differences
    Last graphic: Su-25

    T-47 wrote:Well I don't know what language is that but I got some idea. Thanks AMCXXL

    It is a language of "planet earth"
    Graphics from a spanish blog. Suitable for visual identification

    George1 wrote:@AMCXXL can you give us total numbers of Su-25's ?

    Hello: the VKS has more 200 airplanes Su-25 of several types
    Not all are in service, because the 4 Su-25 regiments had 3 squadrons each (12 in total) , until the military reform that were reduced to 2 squadrons
    However , one squadron was stablished in Crimea and Kant unit was extended to squadron.
    Also one squadron in Lipestk , used as training and acrobatic team , and also a training unit of Su-25UB in Kuschevskaya (Krsnodar Flying School)

    By type:

    Su-25SM3
    2 Su-25SM of Buyyenovsk have been used for start the upgrade program to SU-25SM3 (included the Nº50 , ex-Nº02, of that graphic)
    14 more planes were contracted , 5 in 2015 and 9 in 2016
    The news is that a total of 16 will be transferred to South district before the end of 2017 , probably one squadron to Primosko Akhtarsk and the other 4 to Budyennovsk to complete the regiment
    http://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=458727
    For the moment we must count 2


    Su-25SM
    There were upgraded 84 planes to Su-25SM standard
    Two in Akhtubinsk and two in Lipestk (+4)
    6 complete squadrons:  2xBudyennovsk , 2xChernigovka and 2xPrimorskho-Akhtrask, but one sqdn. of Primorsko , transferred to Crimea (+72)
    Busyennovsk lost 3 planes in Georgian war, so received 3 more planes in 2009 (+3) (-3)
    Also , Kant unit got 5 Su-25SM in 2014 (+5)
    However,  two more SM planes of Budyennovesk has been lost or decomisioned , and other 2 have been used for the Su-25SM3 pilot program (-4)
    The total Su-25SM remaining are 77

    Su-25
    There are operational one regiment in Domna (pending of transfer to Step-Olovyannaya) , one squadron in Primorsko and "half squadron" (7 planes) in Kant , plus a pair in use in Budyennovsk: 45
    Also there are more planes in reserve in Budyennovsk, Chernigovka and Domna
    It was heard that 899º ShAP will be reopen at Buturlinovka before 2020 ,more 10 years after it was closed , once Su-34 retrun to Baltimore
    The number of Su-25 planes between operatinal and in reserve are more than 70

    Su-25BM
    Used mainly in the acrobatic team of Su-25. There are at least 18 , but are used about 12

    Su-25UB
    Are used 6 per regiment (6x4) and 3 per squadron (3x2) . Also 6 in Su-25 team , 6 in Kuschevskaya (Krasnodar Flying School) and others in reserve
    Also one was used for Su-25UBM upgrade , but this program seems stopped
    The total number , with existing photos, is more of 50


    Then the total number for Su-25´s of all types is at least 220 , about 180 of them operational


    franco wrote:
    George1 wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Any idea how many of these russia has and plans to get?

    the contracts till now is for 5+9=14 aircrafts


    Good question. When the order for the 5 being built for this year was announced, they said they would be tendering 40 by the end of 2020. A couple of years ago it mentioned at 60 and prior to that 80. We will have to wait and see. There were 84 upgraded to Su-25SM standard, of which late 2015 it was stated that 79 were still active.

    With the existing fleet , you need those 14 Su-25SM3 contracted for the squadron of Primorsko (12) and 2 for complete the Budyennovsk regiment
    Also need 24 for 266º ShAP and 7 for Kant sqdn.
    Total: 45

    If other regiment is reopen at Buturlinovka, then the total is arround 70


    franco wrote:
    franco wrote:There is also the 670th Air Base at Gissar in Tajikistan. They support the 201st Military Base (Brigade) and have 5 Su-25SM, 5 Mil-24P, and 5 Mil-8MTV. In fact a satellite image dated October 8/16 showed 14 helicopters.  

    Read an article today that confirms the Su-25SM's are stationed at Kant but deploy to Gissar as needed. At Gissar is stationed a mixed helicopter squadron of Mil-24P's and Mil-8MTV's to support the 201st Motor Rifle brigade.

    You can find videos in Youtube of Gissar Ayni airbase with Su-25 of several years ago
    It there was one unit of about 5 Su-25 and one UB each base, Ayni and Kant. Gissar unit lost two planes included the UB
    I think the other 4 planes were sent to Kubinka to modernization in 2013.Returned to Kant when was expanded to squadron , in the batch of 5 SM´s (01 to 04 , because only plane previuosly knwon was nº05)
    Today in the satelite you can only see helicopters and some L-39
    Is not necesary Su-25 unit at Gissar Ayni because is only 45 minutes by flight from Kant


    medo wrote:How many Su-25UB were modernized to Su-25UBM? They will be part of Su-25SM3 regiments.

    As far as I know, only one, RF-93617 Nº 21 White ,  it must be this stationed in Zukhovsky
    I think UBM´s are no longer necesary



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