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    Su-25SM numbers

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    George1
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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  George1 on Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:48 am

    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120221/171427430.html

    Russian Air Force to Receive New Attack Aircraft by 2020

    The deliveries of new close air support aircraft to the Russian Air Force will start by 2020, Air Force spokesman Col. Vladimir Drik said.

    “The Air Force units will start receiving this aircraft by 2020,” Drik said on Monday. “It will gradually replace highly-reliable Su-25SM Frogfoot attack planes.”

    According to Drik, the new aircraft will meet the demands of modern warfare and feature elements of “stealth” technology, the whole range of tactical weaponry, modern radar and navigation equipment.

    Meanwhile, Russia will continue to upgrade its outdated Su-25 attack aircraft to Su-25SM version, which has a significantly better survivability and combat effectiveness.

    The Russian Air Force currently has over 30 Su-25SM planes in service and plans to modernize about 80 Su-25s by 2020, Drik said.

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  TR1 on Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:22 am

    http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=74910

    Around 50 Su-25SM have been completed today. Another 80 are expected through 2020.

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  GarryB on Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:40 am

    That is good news.

    Interesting the reports about a new CAS aircraft being worked on for 2020 that will include stealth capabilities.

    The thing is that the biggest threats to CAS are not radar based, normally it is IR guided SAMs and small arms fire from the ground....

    As we all saw with the Commanche helo, ground attack aircraft can't be too expensive because to a certain degree they will get damaged in the normal course of doing their job.

    Stealth requires extreme precision and very fine tollerances in production and manufacturing... a little battle damage can ruin millions of dollars worth of effort.


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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  George1 on Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:39 pm

    New stealth CAS will propably be sth like Lockheed F-117 Nighthawk?

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  TR1 on Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:04 pm

    George1 wrote:New stealth CAS will propably be sth like Lockheed F-117 Nighthawk?

    100% certain to be nothing like the F-117 Razz

    I think people are reading too much into the stealth thing IMO, I don't even sea a brand new aircraft ready so soon, unless it is a modified current platform with RCS reduction perhaps.

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:25 am

    F-117 was a medium range bomber whose main feature was stealth.

    In fact you could do the work of an F-117 with two cruise missiles, the difference being the F-117 was harder to detect with radar, but the cruise missiles travelled much further.

    I remember quite a long time ago there being a photo in a magazine that showed what looked like a heavily modified Su-25.

    It had a tail mounted pusher propeller for propulsion and a rear mounted straight wing, while up the front it had two sets of canards. The photo of the aircraft was actually a photo of a black plastic model and the wings had a hinge where they folded which suggests this aircraft was designed for carrier use as well as land based use.

    It wouldn't be particularly hard to reshape the aircraft to make it more stealthy if not actually stealthy, the photo was from a rear quarter so it was not possible to see any sensors on the nose.

    The low number of radar guided short range missiles and the common use for CAS aircraft in low intensity conflicts means radar protection via stealth should be actually a very low priority and IR stealth should be rather more important. the large contrarotating propfan engine on the model would be an improvement in that regard.

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  George1 on Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:49 pm

    GarryB wrote:F-117 was a medium range bomber whose main feature was stealth.

    In fact you could do the work of an F-117 with two cruise missiles, the difference being the F-117 was harder to detect with radar, but the cruise missiles travelled much further.

    I remember quite a long time ago there being a photo in a magazine that showed what looked like a heavily modified Su-25.

    It had a tail mounted pusher propeller for propulsion and a rear mounted straight wing, while up the front it had two sets of canards. The photo of the aircraft was actually a photo of a black plastic model and the wings had a hinge where they folded which suggests this aircraft was designed for carrier use as well as land based use.

    It wouldn't be particularly hard to reshape the aircraft to make it more stealthy if not actually stealthy, the photo was from a rear quarter so it was not possible to see any sensors on the nose.

    The low number of radar guided short range missiles and the common use for CAS aircraft in low intensity conflicts means radar protection via stealth should be actually a very low priority and IR stealth should be rather more important. the large contrarotating propfan engine on the model would be an improvement in that regard.

    Stealth CAS means that the new aircraft will have its weapons in an internal bay. So that means a fatter design with smaller wings

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  George1 on Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:42 am

    http://russianmilitaryphotos.wordpress.com/2012/04/15/the-su-25sm3/attachment/071915/



    Su-25SM3

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:23 am

    Stealth CAS means that the new aircraft will have its weapons in an internal bay. So that means a fatter design with smaller wings

    Quite true... the real question however is what sort of stealth do they mean?

    The Commanche program largely was cancelled when they realised that threats like Tunguska and then Pantsir-S1 didn't rely totally on radar for engaging targets so the Commanche, for all its cost in terms of development, the high cost of buying it, and the high service cost of maintaining its stealth, yet a widely deployed air defence system could engage it at ranges exceeding those with which it could retaliate.

    Ironically the Il-106 had very thick wings and had weapon bays inside those wings for 250kg bombs... it also had a powerful main gun and a rear gunner position operating a tail gun.

    The main problem is that for most CAS roles a couple of bombs is not enough... to be effective in the CAS role you need a decent gun... the twin 30mm cannon of the Mi-24, the GSh-30K I think would be ideal as it has a lower rate of fire but a higher muzzle velocity than the related GSh-30 of the Su-25.

    After the campaign in Georgia the Su-25 pilots mentioned the rate of fire of the cannon was too high, so the gun on the Hind should be a better option with a high and low fire rate option and higher muzzle velocity.

    You also need the capacity to carry large numbers of cheap rockets for use against area targets and light bombs are also useful for harder large targets or groups of enemy.

    Some sort of guided standoff weapons would also be valuable but need to be cheap enough to use in large numbers and considering the direction the Russian military is going I would say a range of options would be needed.

    I would say the TV, Laser, and IIR guided models of Kh-25 would be useful and the TV and IIR guided Kh-29s for really hard targets like heavy bridges would be good for unusual targets that are well defended. Add to that the Ugroza laser guidance kits for unguided rockets in the 80mm and 122mm rocket calibres would be cheaper yet very effective for small targets like trucks and APCs with HE Frag and HEAT warheads respectively. Finally the Hermes series of missiles would also be useful as it can be carried in large numbers and be effective against point targets because of their guided accuracy to compensate for the smaller 30kg warhead.

    For bombs a mix of dumb and guided bombs is best with TV, laser, IR guided and satellite guided and their combinations would be most useful.

    The most important stealth for a CAS aircraft would be in the IR range to make it hard to get a lock with a MANPAD like Stinger or Igla.

    Obviously a self defence suite like DIRCMS would also make engagement with IR and optically guided weapons difficult too.

    As you can probably tell this contrasts sharply with the F-117 which spends all its time flying at medium altitude and its primary weapon load is two laser guided bombs.

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  George1 on Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:54 pm

    The serial production of upgraded Su-25 will be started in December

    The upgraded Su-25 strike-fighter is undergoing flight testing. Its serial production will be started in December 2012 and it will receive a new designation, Izvestiya reports.
    The lessons learned during the war in Transcaucasia in 2008 were taken into account during upgrading of Su-25. «Su-25SM aircraft have been taking part in this war and three of them have been lost. The vulnerabilities of the strike-fighter have been found out, for example, the jet does not have a tactical EW suite able to countervail the advanced antiaircraft defenses and fighters. In addition, Su-25 is still using only unguided aircraft-launched missiles and general-purpose bombs. There is a possibility of using guided Kh-25 and Kh-29 missiles, but Su-25’s weapon-aiming system does not meet the advanced requirements», - a source from the air force command said.
    According to him, Su-25 and Su-25SM jets are limited in capabilities under conditions of severe weather and at night. In addition, both aircraft are unable to use bombs adjusted by GLONASS. The experience gained during modern conflicts (for example in Libya) shows that the jet must hit targets without entering the area of coverage of the enemy air defense systems, using high-precision weapons under any weather and lighting conditions.
    The upgraded Su-25 is equipped with advanced tactical EW suite “Vitebsk-25” developed by Ekran (Samara). The jet is also equipped with the weapon-aiming system allowing usage of Kh-29 guided missiles and KAB-KR aircraft controlled bombs with television guidance. The image from the homing head is transmitted to the display located in the cockpit.
    Besides new tactical EW suite and weapon-aiming system, the upgraded Su-25 is equipped with new encrypted communications system with a range of 1000 km. It helps integrate all the jet’s electronic equipment into a single automatic troop command system.
    The navigation system has also been updated. Its key component is the receiver, which is able to surpass active and passive jamming using GPS-GLONASS channel. The jet will also be fitted with electro-optical thermal imagery camera, which is backing up the work of optical and radioelectronic search and homing systems.

    http://www.ruaviation.com/news/2012/10/10/1267/

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  TheRealist on Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:20 am

    George1 wrote:The serial production of upgraded Su-25 will be started in December

    The upgraded Su-25 strike-fighter is undergoing flight testing. Its serial production will be started in December 2012 and it will receive a new designation, Izvestiya reports.
    The lessons learned during the war in Transcaucasia in 2008 were taken into account during upgrading of Su-25. «Su-25SM aircraft have been taking part in this war and three of them have been lost. The vulnerabilities of the strike-fighter have been found out, for example, the jet does not have a tactical EW suite able to countervail the advanced antiaircraft defenses and fighters. In addition, Su-25 is still using only unguided aircraft-launched missiles and general-purpose bombs. There is a possibility of using guided Kh-25 and Kh-29 missiles, but Su-25’s weapon-aiming system does not meet the advanced requirements», - a source from the air force command said.
    According to him, Su-25 and Su-25SM jets are limited in capabilities under conditions of severe weather and at night. In addition, both aircraft are unable to use bombs adjusted by GLONASS. The experience gained during modern conflicts (for example in Libya) shows that the jet must hit targets without entering the area of coverage of the enemy air defense systems, using high-precision weapons under any weather and lighting conditions.
    The upgraded Su-25 is equipped with advanced tactical EW suite “Vitebsk-25” developed by Ekran (Samara). The jet is also equipped with the weapon-aiming system allowing usage of Kh-29 guided missiles and KAB-KR aircraft controlled bombs with television guidance. The image from the homing head is transmitted to the display located in the cockpit.
    Besides new tactical EW suite and weapon-aiming system, the upgraded Su-25 is equipped with new encrypted communications system with a range of 1000 km. It helps integrate all the jet’s electronic equipment into a single automatic troop command system.
    The navigation system has also been updated. Its key component is the receiver, which is able to surpass active and passive jamming using GPS-GLONASS channel. The jet will also be fitted with electro-optical thermal imagery camera, which is backing up the work of optical and radioelectronic search and homing systems.

    http://www.ruaviation.com/news/2012/10/10/1267/

    New aircraft or upgraded air-frames?

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:43 pm

    TheRealist wrote:New aircraft or upgraded air-frames?

    I would say refurbished airframes. The only new ones AFAIK, are the planned Su-25UBM 2-seaters

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:56 pm

    Can the Su-25SM use vikhr ATGMs and TV guided bombs or lacks the electronics suit?

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:23 pm

    Well apparently this new Su-25SM3 version can use TV guided bombs. The Vikrh was only for the Su-25TM (?) I think

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  GarryB on Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:56 am

    Depends on what stabilised optics they are being fitted with... if it is something like that fitted to Ka-52 or Mi-28N then including a stabilised laser for beam riding missiles should be fairly straight forward.

    Equally the Ka-52 has laser beam riding models of Ataka and therefore such a system could be fitted to upgraded Su-25s with the prospect of also using the Vikhr and of course the new Krisantema as well as Hermes.


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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  George1 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:42 pm

    At Primorsko-Ahtarska pilots are experienced in the new "flying tanks" Su-25БМ

    http://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201212281345-hfp5.htm

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Viktor on Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:00 pm

    Here comes 10 more Su-25SM3

    2/15/13 ABOUT 10 NEW SU-25SM3 CAME AT AN AIR BASE IN SOUTH
    February 15 2013.


    RIA Novosti . The first batch of new Su-25SM3 at about ten units entering service airbase in the Krasnodar region, told reporters on Friday, a representative of the Southern Military District (SOUTH).

    "As part of the state defense order for the air base SOUTH unit located in the Krasnodar region, received the first batch of new Su-25 cm3 in the amount of about 10 units," - said the officer.

    He noted that at the same time with the rearmament of aircraft conducted retraining pilots to control this type of aircraft at the Center deployment and retraining of crew in the Lipetsk region.

    According to the representative SOUTH, today over 60% of pilots have been trained air base on the Su-25SM3. "At present, the newly arrived cars completed maintenance work. First scheduled flights newest attack aircraft combat training program is scheduled next week. Su-25SM3 an extensively modified version of the Su-25, and unlike its predecessor, can destroy tiny, movable and stationary ground objects without their visibility by day and night, as well as aerial targets, "- said the representative of the SOUTH.

    This modern aircraft is equipped with a satellite navigation system GLONASS (GPS) with the ability to program the end point on the map with an accuracy of 10 meters, which allows the pilot to operate independently without the support of ground services, not only in normal weather conditions, but also in the complex, with "zero" visibility. The cab has a digital display that shows the ground and air situation. Through a new satellite system aircraft was able to perform operational use at a height of almost 2 times higher than the Su-25. Thanks to extensive modernization, the combat effectiveness of the use of lethal Su-25SM3 increased up to three times. http://ria.ru/



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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Vympel on Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:03 pm

    Why the heck is it Su-25SM3 anyway? Why isn't there an Su-25SM2? Or an Su-27SM2 for that matter?

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  GarryB on Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:35 pm

    Hard to say, though to speculate the SU-25SM was the SM1, perhaps SM2 is an export version of SM and SM3 is the upgraded version for domestic use.

    Another possibility is that it is a translation mistake and that it isn't a 3 or number three at all as there is a Cyrillic letter that looks exactly like the roman numeral 3 and sounds like an English Z.

    Of course that would be a serious translation error as it should therefore be CM3 in Cyrillic properly translated to SMZ in English.

    The BM model is interesting too...


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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Vympel on Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:05 pm



    Su-25SM3 cockpit. No external changes visual on other screencaps.

    http://smartnews.ru/photostream/4912.html?photo_id=3#gallery

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  flamming_python on Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:39 pm

    GarryB wrote:Hard to say, though to speculate the SU-25SM was the SM1, perhaps SM2 is an export version of SM and SM3 is the upgraded version for domestic use.

    Another possibility is that it is a translation mistake and that it isn't a 3 or number three at all as there is a Cyrillic letter that looks exactly like the roman numeral 3 and sounds like an English Z.

    Of course that would be a serious translation error as it should therefore be CM3 in Cyrillic properly translated to SMZ in English.

    The BM model is interesting too...

    That's not the case but nice try Smile


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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  GarryB on Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:40 am

    Su-25SM3 cockpit. No external changes visual on other screencaps.

    Well at least it has a proper HUD instead of the gunsight of the original, and one MFD on the left hand side.


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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Vympel on Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:01 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Well at least it has a proper HUD instead of the gunsight of the original, and one MFD on the left hand side.

    Yeah, but in that regard its identical to the original Su-25SM, they've always had the HUD and MFD.

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  GarryB on Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:15 am

    The Su-25SM3 will be flying very low... you don't want the pilot staring at MFDs inside the cockpit all the time... not good for your health.

    Hopefully they will be able to develop a nose package using the systems perfected for the Ka-52 and Mi-28N to allow him to find and engage ground targets in bad weather and at night if needed... even if it requires a pod.

    The most important upgrade I would like to see is a DIRCM system to defeat those pesky MANPADS.


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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Viktor on Tue May 21, 2013 4:56 pm

    4 targets at the same time. Nice new ability coupled with the new electronic suite.



    The Su-25 strike taught four goals at the same time


    Russian Defense Ministry has successfully completed the special stage of flight tests of modernized Su-25SM to increase their combat effectiveness. As informs "Interfax" referring to a source in the military-industrial complex, attack at the same time learn to hit four targets on the ground guided munitions.

    During the tests also confirmed the high efficiency of the new means of communication and a set of electronic warfare (EW) "Vitebsk-25." The complex, in particular, is equipped with a modern digital Jammer (TSSAP) A-370-3C, and can not only assess the radiation enemy radar, but also "inhibit" signals in a wide frequency range. In addition, the complex includes protection against missiles targeting the thermal head, which blinds the enemy ammunition with a laser beam.

    According to the source, the sharing of "Vitebsk-25" and the new ammunition significantly increased the fighting qualities of the Su-25SM, and expanded the scope of the attack aircraft.

    Previously announced plans to equip the Defense Su-25SM, and the Sukhoi Su-24 and Su-34, the new missile with a guidance system for GLONASS . The tests will begin ammunition in July 2013, the massive supply of missiles will begin in 2014.

    Under the upgrade to the Su-25SM3 gunships were reported to be able to carry out combat missions "without visual visibility day and night." In addition, the new avionics will allow stormtroopers to perform joint tasks with drones .


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