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    Su-25SM numbers

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    Cyberspec
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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Cyberspec on Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:10 am

    GarryB wrote:So the Su-25s being used by Russia in Syria... are they SM3?

    Regular SM by most reports....SM3's aren't ready yet

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Dec 19, 2015 2:29 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:
    GarryB wrote:So the Su-25s being used by Russia in Syria... are they SM3?

    Regular SM by most reports....SM3's aren't ready yet

    Yes, it lacks MAWS and DIRCM of the advertized SM3.

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  George1 on Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:44 am

    22 Feb 1975, T-8-1 (Su-25 prototype) performed maiden test flight. Pilot-V.Ilyshin


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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  franco on Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:10 pm

    GarryB wrote:So the Su-25s being used by Russia in Syria... are they SM3?

    Are there any plans for operational deployment and testing of SM3s?

    Obviously using new models of the Su-25 will be more testing in a real environment as they wont be flying above 6km to avoid MANPADS, but if you want to find out how your aircraft perform you need to test them in a realistic environment and this is as real as it gets without starting WWIII.

    First 5 Su-25SM3's are going or have gone operational in the South Military District.

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  medo on Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:04 pm

    franco wrote:
    GarryB wrote:So the Su-25s being used by Russia in Syria... are they SM3?

    Are there any plans for operational deployment and testing of SM3s?

    Obviously using new models of the Su-25 will be more testing in a real environment as they wont be flying above 6km to avoid MANPADS, but if you want to find out how your aircraft perform you need to test them in a realistic environment and this is as real as it gets without starting WWIII.

    First 5 Su-25SM3's are going or have gone operational in the South Military District.

    Nice. thumbsup I wonder if there are changes in the cockpit considering Su-25SM3 have SOLT-25 EO sight. Maybe additional LCD would work fine to show all data from SOLT and other new components like MAWS, ECM, data link, etc.

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  franco on Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:48 pm

    Some of the specs for the Su-25SM3 in Russian, cost to be around 70 ml rubles per;

    http://twower.livejournal.com/1912037.html

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  AlfaT8 on Thu Feb 25, 2016 1:27 am

    franco wrote:Some of the specs for the Su-25SM3 in Russian, cost to be around 70 ml rubles per;

    http://twower.livejournal.com/1912037.html

    So $1ml a pop, that sounds like a steal. Suspect

    Are these new or upgrades?

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Feb 25, 2016 1:28 am

    franco wrote:Some of the specs for the Su-25SM3 in Russian, cost to be around 70 ml rubles per;

    http://twower.livejournal.com/1912037.html

    Quick question: Is that the cost of the upgrade, or the whole shebang?

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Militarov on Thu Feb 25, 2016 1:31 am

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    franco wrote:Some of the specs for the Su-25SM3 in Russian, cost to be around 70 ml rubles per;

    http://twower.livejournal.com/1912037.html

    So $1ml a pop, that sounds like a steal. Suspect

    Are these new or upgrades?

    Upgrades only ofc. Production line for SU25s does not exist at this moment.

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Feb 25, 2016 1:33 am

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    franco wrote:Some of the specs for the Su-25SM3 in Russian, cost to be around 70 ml rubles per;

    http://twower.livejournal.com/1912037.html

    So $1ml a pop, that sounds like a steal. Suspect

    Are these new or upgrades?

    I think it may actually be just under $1 million. I haven't checked recently, but last I checked the Ruble was trading at 75-to-1 Dollar. 70 million Rubles equates to $933,333 if my calculations are right...but again I haven't check the current exchange rates.

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  AlfaT8 on Thu Feb 25, 2016 1:43 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:
    franco wrote:Some of the specs for the Su-25SM3 in Russian, cost to be around 70 ml rubles per;

    http://twower.livejournal.com/1912037.html

    So $1ml a pop, that sounds like a steal. Suspect

    Are these new or upgrades?

    I think it may actually be just under $1 million. I haven't checked recently, but last I checked the Ruble was trading at 75-to-1 Dollar. 70 million Rubles equates to $933,333 if my calculations are right...but again I haven't check the current exchange rates.

    Nah, your right, i just rounded it up to $1ml.

    A pity the SU-25 ain't being produced anymore, there isn't really an aircraft that can replace it, and with the situation in the M.East being what it is, you'd think these thing would sell like hotcakes.

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Austin on Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:51 am



    The Su-25K Bulgarian Air Force (board "246" number) is flying in tandem with attack aircraft Fairchild-Republic A-10C Thunderbolt II from the 74th Expeditionary Fighter Squadron 23th Air Force wing. Bulgaria, 02/23/2016 (c) Georgi Petkov / russianplanes.net ( link )

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  George1 on Wed May 25, 2016 7:20 am

    Order for nine modernized Su-25SM3

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1919182.html


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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  franco on Wed May 25, 2016 11:17 pm

    George1 wrote:Order for nine modernized Su-25SM3

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1919182.html

    A little puzzling in that they are asking for tenders to modernize 9 planes to 25SM3 standard. And then talk about the 121st Aircraft Repair plant (Air Force owned) at Kubinka modernizing 40 Su-25 to SM3 standards by 2020.

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Militarov on Wed May 25, 2016 11:27 pm

    franco wrote:
    George1 wrote:Order for nine modernized Su-25SM3

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1919182.html

    A little puzzling in that they are asking for tenders to modernize 9 planes to 25SM3 standard. And then talk about the 121st Aircraft Repair plant (Air Force owned) at Kubinka modernizing 40 Su-25 to SM3 standards by 2020.

    And originally they were talking about 80 being modernised by 2020.

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Austin on Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:39 pm

    Su-25UBM

    http://arsenal-otechestva.ru/article/615-su-25ubm

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  franco on Sat Jul 16, 2016 9:41 pm

    Austin wrote:Su-25UBM

    http://arsenal-otechestva.ru/article/615-su-25ubm

    Unfortunately no mention of numbers being ordered because up to now only 1-3 have been or are being converted. Definitely more needed.

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  JohninMK on Sat Jul 23, 2016 4:11 pm

    Another Bulgarian Su-25, photo taken to celebrate Bezmer Air Base’s new runway, their home.


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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  jhelb on Sun Sep 25, 2016 9:05 pm

    This is good news. VITEBSK Active Protection System finally installed on Su 25 russia



    http://defence-blog.com/news/russian-su-25-aircraft-return-to-syria-with-vitebsk-active-protection-system.html

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  kopyo-21 on Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:23 am

    jhelb wrote:This is good news. VITEBSK Active Protection System finally installed on Su 25  russia



    http://defence-blog.com/news/russian-su-25-aircraft-return-to-syria-with-vitebsk-active-protection-system.html

    Like others, Syria becomes the battle field to test new weapons. Hope the Solt-25, the Vitebsk and the SVP-25 "Gefest & T" will run well. Actually the modernization package of Su-25SM3 perfectly matches for Su-22M4 but I am not sure who will want to upgrade the aircraft that come to the end-life-cycle like Su-22.

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  RTN on Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:28 pm

    jhelb wrote:This is good news. VITEBSK Active Protection System finally installed on Su 25  russia



    http://defence-blog.com/news/russian-su-25-aircraft-return-to-syria-with-vitebsk-active-protection-system.html

    Not necessarily. Su 25SM3 can still be targeted by RPG 30/32 or any other ATGM like Javelin,because they fly at very low levels. Vitebsk will not be of any help.

    I rather suspect the RuAF is installing Vitebsk APS in response to the shooting down of their Su 24 by the Turks.

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  JohninMK on Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:16 pm

    Interestingly the video that seemingly shows a Su-25 in Syria last week contains what looks to be the two seat version. The good old proven 'two pairs of eyes are better than one' approach.

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  GarryB on Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:07 am

    Like others, Syria becomes the battle field to test new weapons. Hope the Solt-25, the Vitebsk and the SVP-25 "Gefest & T" will run well. Actually the modernization package of Su-25SM3 perfectly matches for Su-22M4 but I am not sure who will want to upgrade the aircraft that come to the end-life-cycle like Su-22.

    I suspect Russia will have a few old Su-22s around the place... if somewhere like Syria or Iraq have them already and want more and want more capable models I suspect these will be the upgrades of choice.


    Of course a transition to a MiG-29 or Su-27 variant would be encouraged as an alternative no doubt.

    Not necessarily. Su 25SM3 can still be targeted by RPG 30/32 or any other ATGM like Javelin,because they fly at very low levels. Vitebsk will not be of any help.

    An unguided rocket like RPGs would have practically zero chance of hitting a low flying fixed wing aircraft... a hovering helo then yes, but a fixed wing aircraft... no.

    Against the IIR guided Javelin Vitebsk would be ideal in defeating it... and its pathetic range and low flight speed would again make the Frogfoot pretty safe anyway.

    I rather suspect the RuAF is installing Vitebsk APS in response to the shooting down of their Su 24 by the Turks.

    The main use of Vitebsk is against MANPADS, which are plentiful in the area. A Turk F-16 approaching with ill intent would likely be scanned with S-400 as the best deterrent.

    Besides... I doubt the Frogfoot would operate near Turkish airspace.

    Interestingly the video that seemingly shows a Su-25 in Syria last week contains what looks to be the two seat version. The good old proven 'two pairs of eyes are better than one' approach.

    The factory that makes the two seater is in Russia... the factory that made the single seater is in Georgia.


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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  RTN on Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:13 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    The main use of Vitebsk is against MANPADS, which are plentiful in the area. A Turk F-16 approaching with ill intent would likely be scanned with S-400 as the best deterrent.

    How will it defend against laser laser beam riding MANPADS, for example RBS-70? The RBS-70 missile has no seeker head at the front of the missile and the laser beam riding system in the tail of the missile is extremely difficult to jam.

    Same applies for Verba MANPAD. Missiles are guided to their targets using a three-channel optical seeker, which operates in the ultraviolet, near-infrared, and mid-infrared wavelengths.Moreover, the warheads of the VERBA contains three infrared sensors that are constantly cross-checking against one another to make it even harder for a target aircraft to disrupt the system.

    Ergo, the Vitebsk will not be able to defend the Su-25SM3 against MANPADS like RBS-70 & Verba

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  GarryB on Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:48 am

    How will it defend against laser laser beam riding MANPADS, for example RBS-70? The RBS-70 missile has no seeker head at the front of the missile and the laser beam riding system in the tail of the missile is extremely difficult to jam.

    That is totally different.

    ATGMs are slow and generally use IR sensors in their guidance. The Javelin has an IR sensor in its nose that can also be interfered with.

    The RBS-70 on the other hand is very fast and its optical sensor looks back at the launch platform rather that towards the target so it is far more difficult for the aircraft to defeat the guidance method.

    Detection of the laser of course could allow a powerful laser pulse to be directed at the launcher to damage the "optics"... ie blind the operator which would cause them to stop manually tracking the target and cause the missile to miss.

    Fortunately there are very few laser beam homing missiles out there arrayed against Su-25s at the moment.

    Same applies for Verba MANPAD. Missiles are guided to their targets using a three-channel optical seeker, which operates in the ultraviolet, near-infrared, and mid-infrared wavelengths.Moreover, the warheads of the VERBA contains three infrared sensors that are constantly cross-checking against one another to make it even harder for a target aircraft to disrupt the system.

    A bright laser in the frequency they operate at can obscure the target (aircraft)... just like a candle flame becomes invisible when placed in front of a bright spotlight...

    There wont ever be a 100% perfect defence or attack system... measure/counter measure is continuous game.

    Ergo, the Vitebsk will not be able to defend the Su-25SM3 against MANPADS like RBS-70 & Verba

    It might work against both, or it might not. There are certainly no Verba missiles in Syria and no foreign equivalents exist AFAIK. It might be possible there are some RBS-70, but not a huge number and you have to be in the right place at the right time to actually use it.

    More importantly the Gefest & T computerised bombing system will allow attacks from standoff ranges... making self defence rather easier and ground fire less effective.


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