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    Su-25SM numbers

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    Werewolf
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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:19 pm

    TR1 wrote:There was mention of the SM3 being equipped with the Vitebsk-25 EW + DIRCM suit...but no sight of it yet.
    I think modernizing the birds without this suit is pointless.

    Vitebsk-25?

    What is the difference between Vitebsk (L-370) to that? Or just designation for fixed wing aircrafts?

    TR1
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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  TR1 on Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:23 pm

    No clue about details but this is what we have so far:

    "During the tests also confirmed the high efficiency of the new means of communication and a set of electronic warfare (EW) "Vitebsk-25." The complex, in particular, is equipped with a modern digital Jammer (TSSAP) A-370-3C, and can not only assess the radiation enemy radar, but also "inhibit" signals in a wide frequency range. In addition, the complex includes protection against missiles targeting the thermal head, which blinds the enemy ammunition with a laser beam."

    Though posters here think it is domestic version of President-S.

    Werewolf
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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:30 pm

    Hmm, could that also be the same jamming device on Ka-52 wingtip pods they were also designed for a brider spectrum to jam against radars.


    Edit: A very quick search, indicates that Ka-52 and Su-25SM will have the same jamming pods.

    http://survincity.com/2010/04/russian-air-force-will-protect-the-planes-and/


    Quote:
    ""The source said the newspaper, some elements "Vitebsk"Is already over 2-years installed on helicopters. Namely, the system L-370P-2 installed on the Ka-52 and A-370E-8 — Mi-8MTs. At the same time, the complex digital jammer is not adapted for helicopters and aircraft are only protected from thermal homing missiles. Besides, instead of laser projectors system Self-defense is using ordinary light.

    Fitted TSSAP planned to put on the Ka-52 in 2013. Then will begin the installation "Vitebsk" for transport helicopters Mi-26 and E-26T2. It is planned to make a version of "Vitebsk"For transport aircraft IL-476 (Il-76MD-90A).""


    So it said that Ka-52s are fitted with jammers only since 2013 of the TSSAP system which are also intented for Su-25SM's.

    TR1
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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  TR1 on Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:46 am

    http://alexeyvvo.livejournal.com/55603.html

    Tender for 5 Su-25s to be modernized to SM level.

    Viktor
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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Viktor on Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:31 pm

    Great  thumbsup 

    Russian Air Force will continue the modernization of the newest Su-25SM3

    Hannibal Barca
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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:46 pm

    They desperately need a new stealthy replacement for the SU25 and then they will be unbeatable.

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:44 pm

    Hannibal Barca wrote:They desperately need a new stealthy replacement for the SU25 and then they will be unbeatable.

    aa, stealthis no good for this type of aircraft. I would say heavy EW/ECM/ECCM variant with more efficiency. A stealth strike aircraft like Su-34 would be important though.

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  George1 on Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:04 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    Hannibal Barca wrote:They desperately need a new stealthy replacement for the SU25 and then they will be unbeatable.

    aa, stealthis no good for this type of aircraft. I would say heavy EW/ECM/ECCM variant with more efficiency. A stealth strike aircraft like Su-34 would be important though.

    Like USAF F-117?

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:11 pm

    Actually stealth would make little difference...aimed small arms fire will still hit it so armour is needed, and optically guided SAMs are defeated by DIRCMs.

    The low flying Su-25 is only in danger from radar guided threats in WWIII with enemy fighters packing AMRAAM.

    Any stealth it might have would be ruined by combat damage from small arms fire anyway...


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    Hannibal Barca
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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:13 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    Hannibal Barca wrote:They desperately need a new stealthy replacement for the SU25 and then they will be unbeatable.

    aa, stealthis no good for this type of aircraft. I would say heavy EW/ECM/ECCM variant with more efficiency. A stealth strike aircraft like Su-34 would be important though.


    Who said this? Stealth characteristics are very important to an attacking plane that need to penetrate repeatedly enemy defenses and is designed to be more or less constantly under enemy fire.

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Vympel on Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:12 pm

    Whatever happened to the talk of new production Su-25UBMs?

    http://www.airforce-technology.com/news/newsrussian-su-25ubm-aircraft-completes-flight-tests

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:27 pm

    Hannibal Barca wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    Hannibal Barca wrote:They desperately need a new stealthy replacement for the SU25 and then they will be unbeatable.

    aa, stealthis no good for this type of aircraft. I would say heavy EW/ECM/ECCM variant with more efficiency. A stealth strike aircraft like Su-34 would be important though.


    Who said this? Stealth characteristics are very important to an attacking plane that need to penetrate repeatedly enemy defenses and is designed to be more or less constantly under enemy fire.

    Su-25's are supposed to be CAS and dealing with at most, manpad or shory range foes. In other words, in an enviornment where heavy sams are not present. But in Georgian war case, they were using these in enviornments where Buk systems are involved, which Su-25 does not have the appropriate countermeasures for. In this case, Su-34 is what is supposed to be used, amd a stealth variant of that would be important. For Su-25 case, its supposed to be a cheap and heavy CAS aircraft to support troops.

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  TR1 on Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:46 pm

    Su-25s were mostly hit by MANPADS in Georgia. Modernizing the bird without the full DIRCM suit like on the Ka-52 is pointless IMO. At low alt MANPADs are still the most common threat.

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  a89 on Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:52 am

    Whatever happened to the talk of new production Su-25UBMs?

    I have been trying to get information on new production Su-25 but no details. Production should take place in Ulan-Ude, as the other capable factory is in Georgia. Alexander Mladenov states in his book (Su-25 - Osprey publishing) that the new aircraft will be received in 2015.

    Su-25s were mostly hit by MANPADS in Georgia. Modernizing the bird without the full DIRCM suit like on the Ka-52 is pointless IMO. At low alt MANPADs are still the most common threat.

    Ukraine is a good example. Ukrainian upgrade focuses on targeting system (30% improvement) but does not include a defence suit. A 1/3 of the active fleet has been shot down by MANPADS. Ukraine is definitely going to struggle activating Su-25 because facility that performed overhauled/modernizations is in Crimea.

    George1
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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  George1 on Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:35 pm

    Su-25 landing on highway. Primorsky Krai


    Cyberspec
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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Cyberspec on Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:38 am

    16 x Su-25SM3 entered service with a regiment of the Southern Military District

    Arrow http://military-industry.ru/aviation/3413

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  George1 on Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:04 am

    does anyone have info for the total number of su-25 serving in Russian air force?

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Cyberspec on Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:50 am

    Probably approaching 100 by now...but it's just my rough estimate. Haven't kept up with reports lately.

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  George1 on Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:01 am

    Cyberspec wrote:Probably approaching 100 by now...but it's just my rough estimate. Haven't kept up with reports lately.

    so low? i thought it would be around 200

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Cyberspec on Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:55 am

    Inside the Su-25SM3


    Viktor
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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Viktor on Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:31 pm

    5 Su-25SM given to Russian air base in Kyrgyzstan thumbsup

    Five "Rooks" Su-25SM expanded membership base "Kant" in Kyrgyzstan

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Kyo on Mon Dec 29, 2014 10:29 pm

    Apparently a new stealth CAS plane named "Hornet" is in the make to replace Su-25SM beginning 2020. Is this the so-called PAK-SHA?

    https://plus.google.com/photos/102549610567855022047/albums/6097933326642936209

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:43 am

    Kyo wrote:Apparently a new stealth CAS plane named "Hornet" is in the make to replace Su-25SM beginning 2020. Is this the so-called PAK-SHA?

    https://plus.google.com/photos/102549610567855022047/albums/6097933326642936209

    Not much of sense making a CAS plane, that is operating just few hundred meters at hot zones, stealth.

    A soldier in camoflauge jumping infront of you is not really "stealth".

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  Zivo on Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:49 am

    Werewolf wrote:
    Kyo wrote:Apparently a new stealth CAS plane named "Hornet" is in the make to replace Su-25SM beginning 2020. Is this the so-called PAK-SHA?

    https://plus.google.com/photos/102549610567855022047/albums/6097933326642936209

    Not much of sense making a  CAS plane, that is operating just few hundred meters at hot zones, stealth.

    A soldier in camoflauge jumping infront of you is not really "stealth".

    Well, how long do you think the A-10's would last in all out war with Russia, China, or anyone else with good AA capability? CAS aircraft need some serious updating to remain relevant , especially in the age of UCAVs.

    I've never seen a fan-made design I thought would work.  It'll be interesting to see what Russia comes up with. I don't think trying to stealthify a Su-25 is going to work, the design's going to have to be unique.

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    Re: Su-25SM numbers

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:05 am

    Zivo wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    Kyo wrote:Apparently a new stealth CAS plane named "Hornet" is in the make to replace Su-25SM beginning 2020. Is this the so-called PAK-SHA?

    https://plus.google.com/photos/102549610567855022047/albums/6097933326642936209

    Not much of sense making a  CAS plane, that is operating just few hundred meters at hot zones, stealth.

    A soldier in camoflauge jumping infront of you is not really "stealth".

    Well, how long do you think the A-10's would last in all out war with Russia, China, or anyone else with good AA capability? CAS aircraft need some serious updating to remain relevant , especially in the age of UCAVs.

    I've never seen a fan-made design I thought would work.  It'll be interesting to see what Russia comes up with. I don't think trying to stealthify a Su-25 is going to work, the design's going to have to be unique.

    I was thinking something on the lines of a modified Su-34, with thicker armor, engines that have it's exhaust speed scaled back and it's dry thrust increased so it can carry a heavier payload, and the back room converted in to a air-mobile UCAV control center.

    BTW if were talking about wars between the 3 military superpowers in the world, forget about conventional military weapons and strategy...tactical nukes will rule the day!

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