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    Viktor
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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Viktor on Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:39 am

    I guess this will help also.


    Russia halts imports of Monsanto corn over cancer fears

    KomissarBojanchev
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    Re: Russian population

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:53 am

    GarryB wrote:

    Many people hope for the collapse of countries they see as an enemy still... their beliefs often have little to do with reality.

    150 million is not some magic number that when reached will create an open fair happy society.

    Russia has a few problems... just like any other country does.

    Personally I like Putin and I think he is pushing things along better than any other leader in the world... if he was a New Zealander I would prefer him to be our prime minister and I am sure there are a few Americans here who would vote him American president if he was an American citizen with American values and issues at heart.

    Half the problem is that the west sees growth as positive, stable level numbers as some sort of stagnation, and decline as a descent into poverty and chaos.

    The reality is that if you take away migration then most of the west has shrinking population problems too, but these problems are covered by immigration which as you mention causes its own problems.

    There are many people who will leave their country in search of a better place for their children, but with a growing economy and job creation in Russia I rather suspect the flood of people leaving the country for better employment prospects has dropped to a trickle. Of course there will always be those looking for a better climate or a thousands other different reasons... and that is fine.

    Of course things are not helped by the negative picture of Russia painted in the western media, but I am sure over time the real people will get tired of these sad old stereotypes and with contact through the internet those dumb white euro centric westerners will realise most people from Russia are just people, they are not satan worshipping baby eaters. They don't back Syria to spite the west. They back Syria because they have good relations with Syria and port facilities there. Just like the west has good relations with Saudi Arabia and has lots of facilities there despite that regime being nothing like a democracy. Iran and Syria give their people a vote and in many ways are much more moderate and tolerant societies than Saudi Arabia.

    The western media wont tell you that.

    sorry for the double topic Embarassed

    well good to here that


    GarryB
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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GarryB on Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:08 am

    I guess this will help also.

    Good news.

    That Monsanto company sounds like a monster anyway.

    I don't like genetically modified food, and it makes me suspicious when they put big money into stopping laws to make them admit to using genetically modified products... what have they got to hide?

    I particularly hate their reported treatment of farmers in the US and Canada... they seem to love to stick it to the hard working farmers... damn suits.

    sorry for the double topic

    It happens... thanks to Viktor for providing the link I used to find where it should have gone... Smile


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    Re: Russian population

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:20 pm

    People say that the food produced in the communist block was many times worse than the western food but my grandparents and my mother say that the quality standard of the fruits and vegetables made in the kolkhoz and the candy, soft drinks, etc. were much better since they lacked the tens of Es, substitutes, and artificial flavors than the crap we buy today.

    Today we might have larger choice of garbage to pick but we dont have the choice to buy a truly quality product that lacks the contents I mentioned above.

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:20 am

    People say that the food produced in the communist block was many times worse than the western food...

    Yeah, lots of people in the west seem to be experts on communism, yet I remember talking to a lot of people from the Eastern Block during the last 10-15 years on the internet and many of them remember communist times with nostalgia.

    Of course they might be happier now, but during the 90s they missed the rule of law and the stability.

    The huge irony is that China is evidence that communism can coexist with the west, and can actually thrive... in fact I would say that democracy, or more accurately consumerism works best when there is a cheap plentiful labour source able to make consumer items at affordable prices. There needs to be a slave or poor class or group to create products for the masses but without needing to be paid at a livable wage because that would make the consumer items too expensive.

    For a while there was a rumour in Europe that Japan might rise up and use its money and technical knowhow to invest in Russia where there was a large group of trained and educated workers that would be willing to work for very low wages (in comparison to Japanese wages for Japanese workers)... particularly they feared that Japan would again become an aircraft leader like it was in WWII, and expand into aerospace technologies.

    Never happened of course.


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    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  chenzhao on Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:38 am

    There needs to be a slave or poor class or group to create products for the masses but without needing to be paid at a livable wage because that would make the consumer items too expensive.

    ——I have to say , In recent years, this trend has changed. Today anybody who wants start a factory in China, must pay more and comply with more strictly labour laws. From wikipedia, year 2008's Russia's minimum wage was aroung $130 monthly. And here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_in_Peoples_Republic_of_China
    is minimum wage in China by different provinces. Most province's minimum wage standard is nearly the same as Russia's in 2008.


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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GarryB on Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:43 am

    ——I have to say , In recent years, this trend has changed.

    Yes, and no.

    The trend is for change but the game remains the same.

    50 years ago the cheap crap came from Japan and South Korea, and they used the investment to build and grow their economies. As they earned money standard of living rose and the workers demanded rights and the costs got higher and they got to a point where they couldn't be the cheap place to make stuff any more... so they went for quality and started with their own products too. TVs, cars, consumer electronics, etc etc. The rich western companies shifted from Japan and South Korea to other countries... Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia... right now most computer Hard Drives are made in Thailand, China, many of these countries use the investment and don't make cheap crap any more... they make quality products and have dragged themselves up though hard work and smart choices.

    Wages alone are not a good indicator of standard of living... you need to allow for living costs... a poor weekly wage is fine if it is cheap to live... equally a high weekly wage is not a great thing if 75% of it goes to pay rent.


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  flamming_python on Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:04 pm

    chenzhao wrote:
    There needs to be a slave or poor class or group to create products for the masses but without needing to be paid at a livable wage because that would make the consumer items too expensive.

    ——I have to say , In recent years, this trend has changed. Today anybody who wants start a factory in China, must pay more and comply with more strictly labour laws. From wikipedia, year 2008's Russia's minimum wage was aroung $130 monthly. And here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_in_Peoples_Republic_of_China
    is minimum wage in China by different provinces. Most province's minimum wage standard is nearly the same as Russia's in 2008.


    Dunno about minimum wage but Chinese average wage is 2-3x smaller than Russian.

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:55 pm

    Sorry GarryB,
    but calling China a communist state is like calling any western country a real democrisy.
    A real communist state never existed also the majority were totalitarian socialisms and ignored mostly basic aspects of communism which had its citizens as the center of how a communist state can be established.

    Same goes for the west they don't give a **** what people want, the big decisions are kept away from its citizens like we had in Germany with the ESM and now we are slaved to Brussel and they can take 780 bln Euro per year without any questioning without any sue or anything german citizens can do.

    We only have leaderships who try to be the center of a state, which is a contradiction to the idea of a country with a government.

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GarryB on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:36 am

    I quite agree Werewolf, but for the purposes of this discussion China is technically a communist governed country.

    Democracies like to kid themselves that giving their citizens a vote every 3 to 7 years makes them democratic, and that ability to remove governments from power somehow equates to freedom for the people.

    Of course real freedom comes from money... the rich are free... the poor are enslaved... in fact here in New Zealand if you have to work a second job to pay the rent then that job gets secondary tax... no matter how much you earn... so that second job gets taxed like you are rich... at 33 cents in the dollar... and everything you spend it on has Goods and Services Tax at 15% on the remaining 77 cents you get left with... often is simply doesn't work out to be worthwhile taking on a second job...


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    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Corrosion on Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:20 pm

    And the funny part is in a democracy, any Tom, Dick votes even if he doesn't know what a gross national product is and voices his dumb opinion to elect a person that will in turn decide the future of a country. Its like being operated by a doctor with a illegal degree, acquired without actual studies .

    There is a reason why this planet is getting messed up. Another funny part in a capitalist society, using PRECIOUS natural resources and making shit out of it, which ends in landfill or some junkyard, only to exchange some paper notes made out of a tree from one person to another and it is called growth.

    Rant over. Cool

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:29 am

    ... the uninformed voter... with the sophistication of marketing and sales propaganda in the west is it any wonder why they generally feel so superior...

    Western culture thinks it is the pinnacle of human evolution, yet it has so much to learn from others and is so closed to learning those lessons.


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:00 am

    GarryB wrote:I quite agree Werewolf, but for the purposes of this discussion China is technically a communist governed country.

    Democracies like to kid themselves that giving their citizens a vote every 3 to 7 years makes them democratic, and that ability to remove governments from power somehow equates to freedom for the people.

    Of course real freedom comes from money... the rich are free... the poor are enslaved... in fact here in New Zealand if you have to work a second job to pay the rent then that job gets secondary tax... no matter how much you earn... so that second job gets taxed like you are rich... at 33 cents in the dollar... and everything you spend it on has Goods and Services Tax at 15% on the remaining 77 cents you get left with... often is simply doesn't work out to be worthwhile taking on a second job...

    Well,
    for the part with the democrazy is the big misunderstanding of a real democracy.
    The point is democracy vs democrazy is quoted in one sentence which is:
    Allowed to vote or have a choice


    I am honest there is no kind of a president which rules the whole country. And i am talking especially about US and NATO countries.
    He is ordered by his advisers who obeys hell knows whom.
    I am pretty sure and the evidences are all pointing to that, he intelligence agencies have more power than the president and wich obey orderes which are given to them.

    Voting every couple years makes those countries as democratic as wearing an uniform to a real soldier.

    It's only the shiny appearance.

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Corrosion on Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:00 pm

    Not related to Russia so slightly off topic but some good points about democracy mentioned here about democracy in India

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=CH0k-ZNinxQ&feature=endscreen

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  flamming_python on Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:58 pm

    Basically I think that the common people organizing into political parties and running them in accordance with their interests and views, and the rest of the less active general population voting for them is the right idea. It's a good idea in theory. Trouble is that few countries pull it off fairly and most don't even bother but just exploit it in order to give their political/elite class false legitimacy. Maybe just a few minor European nations come vaguely close, that's it.

    For the rest, voting is either the opium of the masses or national tradition (like in America), where the common people whether individually or together have no real means by which to influence their elite and their decisions beyond some superficial ones.

    Or where voting is restricted only to a very narrow political spectrum/choice of existing political parties - and for which a great deal of money or sponsorship from people with money is needed to even buy your way into a position of influence in one of those much less establishing your own political platform (like in Britain, America and most of Europe).

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Viktor on Sat May 25, 2013 4:45 am

    All the measures giving results.


    Russia’s Birth Rate up 5.6% in 2012 - Health Minister


    MOSCOW, May 25 (RIA Novosti) - The birth rate in Russia grew by 5.6 percent year-on-year in 2012, Russian Health Minister Veronika Skvortsova said on Friday.

    “In 2012, birth rate increased by 5.6 percent - from 12.6 to 13.3 [births] per 1,000 people,” she said.
    She added that the number of abortions fell by 5.5 percent, or by 53,900, due to state measures to support pregnant women living in difficult circumstances.

    About 3,000 babies were born with the aid of advanced assisted reproductive technologies, the minister said.
    LINK

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  gaurav on Sat May 25, 2013 4:58 pm

    All the measures giving results.

    No Population growth

    “A natural population loss of 2,573 was registered in 2012 in the country,” the ministry said.
    During the 12 months of 2012, over 1,896,000 children were born, which is 102,400 (5.7 percent) more
    than in 2011 – the highest figure since 1990, the ministry said. (It was not immediately clear whether
    the ministry meant this was the highest growth rate or the highest increase in absolute terms.)
    At the same time, deaths numbered more than 1,898,000 in 2012, down 26,200 (1.4 percent) on 2011.

    2 million deaths in 1 year it is 100 Syria wars combined together , almost WWII(many times more ..) scale losses.
    NO wonder why so many talk of Zombie population in Russia.
    (acute ageing people surviving in Russia, and also young inactive people)

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Firebird on Sat May 25, 2013 5:32 pm

    This is the Western globalism disease. And connects up with the economy thread.

    If young Russians have no jobs, or poor quality jobs, and dont have their own homes, I think its pretty obvious theyre gonna have no plans to marry/reproduce etc.

    Give them good jobs, and social incentives to have kids, and Russians will reproduce.
    And there will be even less incentive to import labour from the 3rd World. Very simple.

    Britain's cities are moving towards majority African/Asian and minority white.
    Indigeneous people dont reproduce very much. Its largely down to the view that they cant afford to.

    And its exactly the bizarre globalist policies that cause this.

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  gaurav on Sat May 25, 2013 5:52 pm

    This is the Western globalism disease. And connects up with the economy thread.

    If young Russians have no jobs, or poor quality jobs, and dont have their own homes, I think its pretty obvious theyre gonna have no plans to marry/reproduce etc.

    Give them good jobs, and social incentives to have kids, and Russians will reproduce.
    And there will be even less incentive to import labour from the 3rd World. Very simple.

    Britain's cities are moving towards majority African/Asian and minority white.
    Indigeneous people dont reproduce very much. Its largely down to the view that they cant afford to.

    And its exactly the bizarre globalist policies that cause this

    Thou art holy soul.

    Alas something related to reality spoken on Russia.

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sat May 25, 2013 8:30 pm

    GarryB wrote:I quite agree Werewolf, but for the purposes of this discussion China is technically a communist governed country.

    Since Deng Xiaoping usurped power China has been another corporate authoritarian empire similar in some aspects to the british empire with huge privatization, exploitation of the working class even worse than in the US, very poor living conditions and the government doing very little about it unlike during the vast nationalization, improvement of working and living conditions.

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Regular on Sat May 25, 2013 8:46 pm


    Sorry, but most of Your assumptions about Russia aren't truth. For example it's nothing to do with some mystical western globalism disease. Reproduction - it's not middle ages. Having children early puts enormous strain and doesn't help studying nor in climbing up career. No wonder people try to sort their lives first. There is not a big advantage in having massive population, they should rather concentrate on quality not quantity. To be honest Russians in Soviet union were totally different people than they are now. I'm not idolising, but higher morals, less profanity, and healthy society.

    GarryB wrote:I quite agree Werewolf, but for the purposes of this discussion China is technically a communist governed country.

    Democracies like to kid themselves that giving their citizens a vote every 3 to 7 years makes them democratic, and that ability to remove governments from power somehow equates to freedom for the people.

    Of course real freedom comes from money... the rich are free... the poor are enslaved... in fact here in New Zealand if you have to work a second job to pay the rent then that job gets secondary tax... no matter how much you earn... so that second job gets taxed like you are rich... at 33 cents in the dollar... and everything you spend it on has Goods and Services Tax at 15% on the remaining 77 cents you get left with... often is simply doesn't work out to be worthwhile taking on a second job...
    Interesting, but I know quite a few British and Irish people working in NZ and they consider wages and rent to be better than in their countries.

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Firebird on Sat May 25, 2013 9:53 pm

    Regular wrote:
    Sorry, but most of Your assumptions about Russia aren't truth. For example it's nothing to do with some mystical western globalism disease. Reproduction - it's not middle ages. Having children early puts enormous strain and doesn't help studying nor in climbing up career. No wonder people try to sort their lives first. There is not a big advantage in having massive population,

    Well once again you are talking nonsense.
    And why is that? Because Lithuanian emigrants like you, along with Indians and Fillipinos have benefited quite nicely from the bizarre brand of globalism.

    And finally, its nothing to do with "sorting lives out first". Having kids can be less than a year out for mothers, and no time whatsoever for fathers. The fact is, they see that the sums dont add up for having families. Do some research.Unemployed/struggling 1st world males arent gonna choose to have kids in large numbers. Suggesting otherwise is ridiculous. Do some research. And no-one has kids while at college, so your other claim is also irrelevant.. and wrong.

    Finally there's an essential requirement for reproduction. Otherwise u get a greying population and no workers to keep the country afloat. But hey.. dont let facts get in the way of your sales pitch...

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Regular on Sun May 26, 2013 2:55 am

    [quote="Firebird"][quote="Regular"]
    Well once again you are talking nonsense.
    I presume You know better deal about things than me ?

    And why is that? Because Lithuanian emigrants like you, along with Indians and Fillipinos have benefited quite nicely from the bizarre brand of globalism.
    Cry me a river. At least I'm working and not claiming asylum money. UK is eager to dish money left and right and people feel no shame taking them. My input generates income for British company. Money I've spend cycles through UK market. No, I don't buy milk from China or toilet paper from Pakistan. I use local services and I prefer local products as British market probably has best quality food products I've ever seen. Even if Mark & Spencer is poor's man luxury retailer, standards are way above where I am from and with a fraction of price. UK didn't have to provide me with education or skills, I came here with all knowledge I need and good working ethics and that I can offer and that is it. As far as I am concerned, Britain is lucky to have me and especially my wife as she is big spender. My country is paying it for not being able to create us same conditions and loosing good share of money.

    And finally, its nothing to do with "sorting lives out first".

    Strange thing that is very popular excuse for married people who still don't go for baby. Academic people for example.
    Having kids can be less than a year out for mothers, and no time whatsoever for fathers.
    You must be kidding, right? It's not only about popping baby on dirty concrete floor somewhere in Ukraine's hospital. It takes a bit longer to RAISE a child. Leaving all responsibilities to child's mother is not really smart idea too. Very eastern European way to be honest :/

    The fact is, they see that the sums dont add up for having families. Do some research.Unemployed/struggling 1st world males arent gonna choose to have kids in large numbers. Suggesting otherwise is ridiculous. Do some research.
    Are you really Brit cause you speak utterly rubbish. HERE IT'S MORE PROFITABLE TO BREED LIKE RABBIT. Should I give You links to gov sites? Council house, tax returns, income support, housing benefits, allowances.. Not to mention how much you get if You are single parent.. Half of the guys in my gym are on benefits, have children and still sit around in gym all day not looking for work or education
    And no-one has kids while at college, so your other claim is also irrelevant.. and wrong.
    Not sure if You are serious, college time means loads of action in Dorms. Even our geeks in IT groups got burned. Same here, Liverpool turns into big whorehouse, no need to go for Thailand.
    Finally there's an essential requirement for reproduction. Otherwise u get a greying population and no workers to keep the country afloat. But hey.. dont let facts get in the way of your sales pitch...
    Greying population could be doing all FINE in some countries. It depends if their economy relies on big labour force. Breeding like Chinese probably wouldn't best thing in Russia, cause typical Chinese peasant has no better life conditions than homeless alcoholic bomzh in Rubliovka.
    Situation in Russia is still far way from being bad like in Norway. Russia imports low skilled, low paid, lazy-ass gastarbaiters just because they are cheaper than tools they wield. They are usually backwards people without no education and there are no respect towards them, I think they are called churki, ruberoidi and etc. I'm not racist but I got that general feeling while staying in Pushchino from academic people!

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  BTRfan on Sun May 26, 2013 6:45 am

    Pervius wrote:They don't have it as bad as the US.

    Russia, like the US...had to bring in fresh DNA. Now to end the Islam and bring it into their favor...this is what will occur.

    Russia will draft all those muslim men into their military, send them into some war where they want them all to die. Then the Russian young men kept back at home...will have many young muslim girls to care for...open them up and allow them to drive...create many new babies with good undamaged DNA. By giving those muslim girls more freedom, education, credit cards to shop...they will adopt their new thing...Russia. Then they will have to work to pay off their shopping bills.....Russia survives.

    Now what will America do with all it's Latino's it brought in...who also don't want to melt into the melting pot? Same thing.

    So maybe...the US/Russia will have some fake war in some country....that neither wants to win.....they just want to kill off all the males....so they get access to a good DNA pool and fix the damage that was done in the "Cold War" when everyone was pouring chemicals all over which ended up destroying our DNA.

    It's the ONLY option which can put Humpty Dumpty back together again.

    So hmmm....where can Russia/US send all these male muslims/latino's off to die?...and not want them to come back alive?

    C-H-I-N-A.

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    “If our buildings, our highways, and our railroads should be wrecked, we could rebuild them. If our cities should be destroyed, out of the very ruins we could erect newer and greater ones. Even if our armed might should be crushed, we could rear sons who would redeem our power. But if the blood of our White race should become corrupted and mingled with the blood of Africa, then the present greatness of the United States of America would be destroyed and all hope for civilization would be as impossible for a Negroid America as would be redemption and restoration of the Whiteman's blood which had been mixed with that of the Negro.”

    -- Theodore G Bilbo 1947 [Democrat US Senator from Mississippi]

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  TR1 on Sun May 26, 2013 7:42 am

    That's not racist at all.

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