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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:15 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    Let me rephrase that.
    Recent business news are showing that businesses are beginning to drop their College requirements for high paying jobs.

    The most recent report was about the need for new aircraft technicians, which according to my old man who was a former pilot, was a very high payed job.

    Also nurses and High Voltage technician are also both well payed, my cousin's a nurse and she expanded her house.

    True, but my point was: does everybody need an University diploma? you need job and money or education in arts? Mind that thsi thread is about family.So truck drivers, nurses or technicians have no right to have families or what?
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  AlfaT8 on Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:54 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:True, but my point was: does everybody need an University diploma? you need job and money or education in arts? Mind that thsi thread is about family.So truck drivers, nurses or technicians have no right to have families or what?

    No.
    If they actually study the "arts" then they better be damn sure they know what they're doing.
    Everyone has a right to family.
    Problem is, too many women are avoiding family, in their endless pursuit of Christian Gray.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GarryB on Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:21 am

    The most recent report was about the need for new aircraft technicians, which according to my old man who was a former pilot, was a very high payed job.

    Also nurses and High Voltage technician are also both well payed, my cousin's a nurse and she expanded her house.

    Nurses in New Zealand are not well paid and often go on strike because of that.

    The Aussies are fools then.

    You are suggesting forcing women to have children to increase the population size, but the Aussies are fools?

    Yea, let's go with the absolute extremes so you could make your case.

    You are living in a utopia... no student loan debt, high paying jobs, yet your women are not having children... you said make them... make implies force... giving no choice, so I gave you two examples of that sort of thing.... but you call that extreme.... so what are your plans to make women have babies?

    The birth rates continuing to drop all over the West and parts of the East, someone will have to make a Decision, and women will have to make babies.
    That's what's gonna happen, regardless of how anyone feels.

    Are you an idiot?

    If you can decide by government decree that women will have more babies then you are obviously a pre teen that does not understand how and why babies are made.

    Why waste time with decrees to have more babies... why not just make a decree that everyone is happy with everything...

    Why not.

    Because there is no sensible way of making women have babies without rather disgusting or illegal or immoral actions.

    Disolvable condoms? Ban condoms? Sell Asprin as a contraceptive pill? Public orgys where contraception is banned?

    Again, you seem rather young... if a reason to do something that is "Why not" then that reason will not stand up in court in your defence...

    If the Degree cannot guaranty you a well payed job, then it is worthless and an outright scam, unless it's an "Arts" degree, then it's just worthless.

    They made the loan so they gotta pay it off.

    You are young. Just because you have a degree does not mean the 200 other people going for the job don't have degrees too... in fact there are jobs that require a degree to even be considered for the job... in which case pretty much everyone applying for that job will have a degree... not lets say you are the employer... do you hire all of them? If you can't... which you obviously can't, you need to put these people through an interview process to see who would be most suitable... most will have the skills, but do they have the work ethic... can they work well with your existing team of people...

    The Bank, the house that they built with said loan.

    Yeah... it doesn't work that way... you can't get a loan from a bank and use the house you are going to build with the money from the loan as collateral... it doesn't work like that.

    Then they better have good jobs,... yes, such is life for those who want a house.

    So people who work minimum wage jobs like in retail should just rent all their lives?

    Old people also have assets and a pension, not sure what you mean by "the value of the family home?
    Your jobs are suppose to pay off the loans, if you don't want them around send them to an old folks home.

    Because when old people can't look after themselves and/or have no children to care for them, they go into an old folk home that will charge them probably $1,000 a week. Any assets or pensions the old buggers might have will be gone in a few years... so any kids they do have will get no inheritance...

    And house prices keep going up.

    Then go get them, without breaking the bank, Trade schools offer both and communities colleges should give you a good qualifications so you can get some good experience and go up from there.

    Trade schools are called Polytechnics here and their fees are not that different from Universities... and there is still no guarantee of a job at the end.

    Honestly, i think the IRS should do some deep investigation in those high priced universities, because the tax payer wants to know where their money is going.

    What tax? Universities are private here, not government run.


    A Nation is it's people and as it's people disappear so shall the nation.
    This is something the Eurotards will have to learn the hard way.

    Survival of the fittest... if a country needs to order its women to have children they don't want, then that country is not worth saving.

    Neither. Your skills do.

    You can be the most skilled person in the world and still not get the job. Communication and sales... you have to communicate to them that you can do the job, and fit in with their staff and think you are the best candidate for the job. Of course you could also be a lying bastard...

    Then how they can choose such job if they know they wond be able to pay back their debts? I hope they wont teach math. Of course they HAVE to take EXPENSIVE loans to get LOW PAID jobs? Im sure they have to.

    Not everyone thinks they will do a particular job they hate just for the money. Some people like to teach other people to do things and give them more opportunities...

    Of course some teachers should not be teachers because they have the knowledge but lack the capacity to communicate that knowledge to a wide range of people with different learning processes...

    of course how you can live when you're 24 without a house in suburbs, swimming pool, 2 cars (one for wifey one for you) , small airplane or chopper is optional but nice to have?
    Only in sch conditions you can have a child!

    Some people realise their 20s are the best years of their lives and they don't want kids till they are in their 30s... sometimes they don't get a choice...

    and you dotn have parents, family?!

    You could stay with your parents, but for how long? Are you parents living close to your work or is there a commute?

    in some countries there is a thing called life insurance...in most cases this is obligatory to take it where I live. So you're covered.

    Does life insurance pay out if you hurt your back and have to change career when you are 50?

    is there any problem to start while studying?

    If you could start while studying... why bother studying?

    There are odl fashioned thingys in western copro corpoworld called family. . What I've observed i my life kids going to university were either living with parents (if cash was tight) or in dorms or (if you're too rich for dorm) then you rent a room. OR flat with couple of friends. Thsi works with or without socialism. This works with or without family tho.

    Indeed, but paying rent and food and electricity and phone and your student loan does not leave much money each week for beer.

    And results in a student loan.

    That's simple you're dying out as effect your economy starts crumbling your state is in decline. Pace depends on decline rate.

    But the Russian population is increasing...

    Well, not sure how it is solved in NZ but here in Europe brain surgery is done by highly specialized surgeons not nurses.

    You seem to be reading what you want to read instead of what I am saying.... I never mentioned a nurse.

    I said:

    You are in hospital and the guy who is going to perform brain surgery tells you he never went to medical school... the fees were too high, so he did his degree part time on the internet from a university in the Cayman Islands... nighty night...

    The guy who is going to perform brain surgery on you tells you he never went to medical school because the fees were too high... the fact that I said he got his qualifications on the Internet with the assumption they were fraudulent is the point... it really does not matter whether he was pretending to be a nurse, a doctor, or a used car salesman...

    But if you have no money to study you either have to get merit scholarship or you educate within your means as nurse or technician. Does every kind in NZ need to be a doctor? there are no technicians or nurses?

    Practising Doctors generally have no problems in terms of paying back loans... their loans are big, but their salaries are big too.
    It is technicians and nurses who suffer because their training is not cheap, and the risks are just as high, but their salaries are not that great.

    True, but my point was: does everybody need an University diploma? you need job and money or education in arts? Mind that thsi thread is about family.So truck drivers, nurses or technicians have no right to have families or what?

    The reality is that the majority of jobs don't need a degree or diploma... traditionally it has just been a technique to cull the huge pile of applications for a job so they can reduce the number of people they have to interview... of course sometimes it works the other way... anyone with university education is eliminated from the list as being over qualified...

    If they actually study the "arts" then they better be damn sure they know what they're doing.

    Of course... university is all about getting a high payed job and nothing to do with actual education or learning or culture...
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  AlfaT8 on Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:18 pm

    GarryB wrote:Nurses in New Zealand are not well paid and often go on strike because of that.

    That's NZ problem.

    You are suggesting forcing women to have children to increase the population size, but the Aussies are fools?

    Yes, they are fools.
    How is my suggestion even comparable?

    You are living in a utopia... no student loan debt, high paying jobs, yet your women are not having children... you said make them... make implies force... giving no choice, so I gave you two examples of that sort of thing.... but you call that extreme.... so what are your plans to make women have babies?

    There will always be debt, we gotta live with it.
    Decent paying jobs.
    They aren't making children because they don't need men, ergo you have have to push them to get a man, by letting them face some consequence of sorts.
    For now they still have a choice, if the decline continues they WILL be stripped of this choice.
    All i am suggesting is to put some pressure, in order to hopefully avoid, what looks likely to be the inevitable.
    And yes, they are extreme.

    Are you an idiot?

    If you can decide by government decree that women will have more babies then you are obviously a pre teen that does not understand how and why babies are made.

    Why waste time with decrees to have more babies... why not just make a decree that everyone is happy with everything...

    If the existence of the Nation is threatened by a constantly collapsing birth rate, then it is the duty of the State to do what must be done.
    All we are doing today is kicking the can to the next generation hoping that they would solve this problem, so since we are doing that we shouldn't regret when this future generation does solve this problem by unfortunate means.

    Who's the Utopian again??
    Anyway it's because this "everyone is happy" thing (aka: the  present situation) has led directly to declining births.

    Because there is no sensible way of making women have babies without rather disgusting or illegal or immoral actions.

    Disolvable condoms? Ban condoms? Sell Asprin as a contraceptive pill? Public orgys where contraception is banned?

    Again, you seem rather young... if a reason to do something that is "Why not" then that reason will not stand up in court in your defence...

    Hardly, all you need is some consequences, you need the carrot and the stick.
    Heck, the Draft suggestion is neither immoral nor illegal, and nowhere near those silly recommendations

    And you seem to be rather blind that if the situation persist, hard decisions will have to be made.

    You are young. Just because you have a degree does not mean the 200 other people going for the job don't have degrees too... in fact there are jobs that require a degree to even be considered for the job... in which case pretty much everyone applying for that job will have a degree... not lets say you are the employer... do you hire all of them? If you can't... which you obviously can't, you need to put these people through an interview process to see who would be most suitable... most will have the skills, but do they have the work ethic... can they work well with your existing team of people...

    Then get a cheap degree and work from there, if we are talking about the States, there are also Trade schools.

    Yeah... it doesn't work that way... you can't get a loan from a bank and use the house you are going to build with the money from the loan as collateral... it doesn't work like that.

    It does here.
    Lot of homes and businesses are built and then used as collateral.
    If the business/home owner, cant pay off the loan they lose there house/office/store.
    Banks only care if you can pay off a loan, that's why couples have an easier time getting loans.

    So people who work minimum wage jobs like in retail should just rent all their lives?

    They should learn some new skills and get better payed jobs, if not they gotta rent or go home.
    Another one of my cousins is going through this very situation.

    Because when old people can't look after themselves and/or have no children to care for them, they go into an old folk home that will charge them probably $1,000 a week. Any assets or pensions the old buggers might have will be gone in a few years... so any kids they do have will get no inheritance...

    And house prices keep going up.

    Good, those few years could be used to make other arrangements.

    If they are in such unfortunate situation, no doubt they'll be no inheritance, although there might be a large life insurance check.

    Good, that means that more people will rent.

    Trade schools are called Polytechnics here and their fees are not that different from Universities... and there is still no guarantee of a job at the end.

    Dang, then find a cheap one, learn whatever makes money and go from there.

    What tax? Universities are private here, not government run.

    The money from student loans come from the Government, right?
    Ergo someone should find out where it's going.

    Survival of the fittest... if a country needs to order its women to have children they don't want, then that country is not worth saving.

    Death it is then, for such fools
    Survival doesn't care about your principals.

    Of course... university is all about getting a high payed job and nothing to do with actual education or learning or culture...
    In the States there is an insane number of fools that go to learn the "arts" and later can't find work for sh%t.
    So many useless degrees out there.
    So they better know WTF they are doing or they're F'ed.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:33 am

    GarryB wrote:Nurses in New Zealand are not well paid and often go on strike because of that.

    It's happening all over the world but dont worry it wont change much. lol1 lol1 lol1

    The point here is can they rent anything or buy appe
    For permanent nursing roles, the starting salary for newly qualified staff is currently in the range of NZ$40,000 to NZ $45,000 per annum and the top level is NZ$46,000 to NZ$63,000 per annum.

    So on begginign Nurse can buy a house for 9 years salaries and this is poor? affraid affraid affraid

    https://www.genevahealth.com/Find-Work/Permanent/International-job-seekers


    Figures released Wednesday by the Real Estate Institute of New Zealand indicate the median house price in Auckland is 835,000 New Zealand dollars ($547,000) while the median price across the country is NZ$550,000 ($361,000).

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/08/15/new-zealand-bans-foreigners-buying-homes/

    Nz $ = 0,57 €



    Neither. Your skills do.

    You can be the most skilled person in the world and still not get the job. Communication and sales... you have to communicate to them that you can do the job, and fit in with their staff and think you are the best candidate for the job. Of course you could also be a lying bastard...

    Well interview in 3-20 person company for electrician or plumber is like show us CV or show me how you do it? or paramedic?
    Communication and sales... you have to communicate to them that are salesmen's skills arent they?

    BTW laying bastards are best in politics and in law firms lol1 lol1 lol1

    From state perspective the best approach is programmes of retraining people. Especially with structural'long time joblessness and elderly people wanting to work.



    Then how they can choose such job if they know they wond be able to pay back their debts? I hope they wont teach math. Of course they HAVE to take EXPENSIVE loans to get LOW PAID jobs? Im sure they have to.

    Not everyone thinks they will do a particular job they hate just for the money. Some people like to teach other people to do things and give them more opportunities...


    OK then they shouldnt complain about loans this was clearly they had chosen such job. Not t mention this is not the reason not to have kids. BT teacher that hates kids affraid affraid affraid




    Some people realise their 20s are the best years of their lives and they don't want kids till they are in their 30s... sometimes they don't get a choice...

    Let's agree abptu something here: we taalk abut people who want or dont want to have kids. But never about those who cannot have. That is really sad especially if somebody wants to have kids Sad((


    and you dotn have parents, family?!

    You could stay with your parents, but for how long? Are you parents living close to your work or is there a commute?

    As long as it takes to get job and have own money? if you have job away then you earn money and can rent something.





    in some countries there is a thing called life insurance...in most cases this is obligatory to take it where I live. So you're covered.

    Does life insurance pay out if you hurt your back and have to change career when you are 50? [/quote]

    and you cannot insure about work disability at any age in NZ?




    is there any problem to start while studying?
    If you could start while studying... why bother studying?

    It is strange you dont understand difference between have experience and studying which gives you theoretical background. Which you unlikely get while working. I dunno how it is in NZ but in Poland on engineering directions they start from average 3rd year if they want to be good and have well paid job. I never heard thet in Poland any IT graduate really looks for a job long time. Most are tekn form university by companies before they graduate.


    There are odl fashioned thingys in western copro corpoworld called family. . What I've observed i my life kids going to university were either living with parents (if cash was tight) or in dorms or (if you're too rich for dorm) then you rent a room. OR flat with couple of friends. Thsi works with or without socialism. This works with or without family tho.
    Indeed, but paying rent and food and electricity and phone and your student loan does not leave much money each week for beer.

    And results in a student loan.

    Well so either you work on student job (in EU non taxed varies. In country I am now it is like €800 per month tax free) or parents who pay for your room, fod and tuition and sometimes pocket money. What is the problem with that?



    That's simple you're dying out as effect your economy starts crumbling your state is in decline. Pace depends on decline rate.

    But the Russian population is increasing...

    Slowly so far but yes. Because of growing birth rates and immigration. But will get low around 2030 because of 90s significant drop. There is program to support families but really massive immigration can help. Sucking 3-5 millions from Ukraine and 2-3 form other countries can surely help

    But if you have no money to study you either have to get merit scholarship or you educate within your means as nurse or technician. Does every kind in NZ need to be a doctor? there are no technicians or nurses?

    Practising Doctors generally have no problems in terms of paying back loans... their loans are big, but their salaries are big too.
    It is technicians and nurses who suffer because their training is not cheap, and the risks are just as high, but their salaries are not that great.
    Salary is bad so what is th ecost 30 k NZ$ yr?! jobelss rate is below 5 % mans companies actually look for people.


    https://www.payscale.com/research/NZ/Job=Engineering_Technician/Salary

    https://www.careers.govt.nz/jobs-database/health-and-community/health/pharmacy-technician/about-the-job

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-01/new-zealand-jobless-rate-fell-to-nine-year-low-in-first-quarter


    TO me it boils down to expectations. I never heard abut any country where live life as on TV soaps cry cry cry


    True, but my point was: does everybody need an University diploma? you need job and money or education in arts? Mind that thsi thread is about family.So truck drivers, nurses or technicians have no right to have families or what?

    The reality is that the majority of jobs don't need a degree or diploma... traditionally it has just been a technique to cull the huge pile of applications for a job so they can reduce the
    number of people they have to interview... of course sometimes it works the other way... anyone with university education is eliminated from the list as being over qualified...

    Good that we agree. For mot of jobs you dont need expensive education but a set of useful skills for the job.


    nothing to do with actual education or learning or culture...
    so why then cry you dont have well paid job? dunno dunno dunno either your family is rich or you just live your life within your means.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GarryB on Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:02 am

    So on begginign Nurse can buy a house for 9 years salaries and this is poor?

    You just said nurses starting salaries are up to 45K... are you trying to say that in just under 10 years they can afford to pay off a house?

    What about the 5 years of university training and the $150K student debt they probably have just to start with?

    They will also need a car to get to work... and little things like eating and probably over 10 years they might see a movie or have a holiday or something...

    And that assumes they can even get a full time job...

    Figures released Wednesday by the Real Estate Institute of New Zealand indicate the median house price in Auckland is 835,000 New Zealand dollars ($547,000) while the median price across the country is NZ$550,000 ($361,000).

    You wont get a house in Auckland for less than half a million, and if you do it would make a card board box look like luxury...

    But don't take my word... look at an advert for house loans from a New Zealand bank called the ANZ:



    Obviously you can't see all of the house, but in the full length TV advert as he says 1 million dollars the spouting collapses in the rain...

    Also amusing... the bank does not say... why are you buying such a shithole for that ridiculous price... it offers to help you get into a debt likely only a lottery win would save you from... in other words... buy the shithole and get into a lifetime of debt... with us... Wink an Australian bank operating in New Zealand...


    Well interview in 3-20 person company for electrician or plumber is like show us CV or show me how you do it? or paramedic?
    Communication and sales... you have to communicate to them that are salesmen's skills arent they?

    There are very few jobs where communication is not important...


    BTW laying bastards are best in politics and in law firms

    When you say best you mean most successful... in this case you could substitute best with "most evil".

    People who don't give a shit about right and wrong and just think it is their job to get their client off even if they are a child molesting murdering psychopath...

    Especially with structural'long time joblessness and elderly people wanting to work.

    When you reach retirement age often you are discarded by society, but while there are plenty who should really be discarded well before retirement age there are plenty who would like to keep working, or perform roles within society that are still useful.

    OK then they shouldnt complain about loans this was clearly they had chosen such job.

    Of course they should not complain... 40 years ago their 100K plus student loan for their course cost $250 a year to enrol in, but now it costs over $100K... why should they be bitter?

    They should just do the job that costs the least to learn to do and be happy. Rolling Eyes

    Not t mention this is not the reason not to have kids. BT teacher that hates kids

    In my experience most of the people I know who have had kids did it when their couples friends had kids... I want a house, I want a car... and my friend has just had a baby... I want one too. It almost never has anything to do with continuing the species.

    Let's agree abptu something here: we taalk abut people who want or dont want to have kids. But never about those who cannot have. That is really sad especially if somebody wants to have kids

    Of course... even people who don't want kids can sometimes get a surprise, but it is truly sad when a couple find that it is not an option. Not that just wanting kids and not being able to have them would make them perfect parents, but having them and not wanting them... well...

    As long as it takes to get job and have own money? if you have job away then you earn money and can rent something.

    And that depends on culture too.... I know a few Indian families where children work and save up money while still living with parents... when board costs are low or nothing and subsidised by parents then you can really save a lot of money if you are careful...

    There are benefits for the parents too... they can go on holiday without worrying, and would get help around the place too.

    and you cannot insure about work disability at any age in NZ?

    The people who would need it the most are the ones least likely to afford it...


    It is strange you dont understand difference between have experience and studying which gives you theoretical background. Which you unlikely get while working. I dunno how it is in NZ but in Poland on engineering directions they start from average 3rd year if they want to be good and have well paid job. I never heard thet in Poland any IT graduate really looks for a job long time. Most are tekn form university by companies before they graduate.

    It is probably different here because Otago University and Otago Polytechnic are here in Dunedin, so huge numbers of new graduates are being pumped out each year. It is also much better lifestyle to much bigger cities in NZ without problems of a really big city... when you have kids it is a nice place to move back to... so what tends to happen is most of those that get their degrees or whatever move away and get experience and start a family but often come back... with experience.

    There is not a huge abundance of jobs here, though the gigabit internet government push has really helped and lots of new IT companies are appearing here at the moment.

    Well so either you work on student job (in EU non taxed varies. In country I am now it is like €800 per month tax free) or parents who pay for your room, fod and tuition and sometimes pocket money. What is the problem with that?

    When I was a student you got about 50$ less per week than an unemployed person... and you paid income tax on that and also goods and services tax on everything you buy... and a nice big student loan to pay for tuition.

    Slowly so far but yes. Because of growing birth rates and immigration. But will get low around 2030 because of 90s significant drop. There is program to support families but really massive immigration can help. Sucking 3-5 millions from Ukraine and 2-3 form other countries can surely help

    You keep saying help, but how does that benefit Russia?

    TO me it boils down to expectations. I never heard abut any country where live life as on TV soaps

    When I was a young fellow losing a job was not the end of the world... you'd have another job by the end of the week... but loyalty was respected... spending 20 years in a job was a good thing... these days... what is wrong with you?

    Good that we agree. For mot of jobs you dont need expensive education but a set of useful skills for the job.

    The problem is that because education is so lucrative they are making things harder... in the old days, you left your kids with parents of family members, but these days they have child minding services... but those who work as child carers need education certificates and qualifications just to keep an eye on the little ones while their parents go to work to pay for it. You can't just keep a supervisory eye on the kids so they don't get hurt... you have to actively educate and stimulate their minds...

    Of course there are plenty of jobs where on the job training should be enough... half the crap I learned at university about the IT industry was bollocks... we learned how to do system proposals and develop prototype systems that could then be developed into custom designed software for an employer... in the real world that would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, so you just buy off the shelf programmes and adapt them to your needs...

    so why then cry you dont have well paid job? dunno dunno dunno either your family is rich or you just live your life within your means.

    Of course... only rich people should be educated in arts and history... and management and marketing and economics will become the dominant sectors in University politics... people becoming more cattle like every day... but what has higher learning got to do with quality education?
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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:39 am

    GarryB wrote:
    So on begginign Nurse can buy a house for 9 years salaries and this is poor?

    You just said nurses starting salaries are up to 45K... are you trying to say that in just under 10 years they can afford to pay off a house?
    What about the 5 years of university training and the $150K student debt they probably have just to start with?
    They will also need a car to get to work... and little things like eating and probably over 10 years they might see a movie or have a holiday or something...

    And that assumes they can even get a full time job...

    OK we might add  new real or non existing barriers. cmon.  In Europe we got something like rented flats and public transportation.  Not eveybody here starts as in US soap.

    BTW 3 years of nurse tuition fees = 3x8000 NZ$ not 150k.  Starting salary is ~40k $. And jobless rate is 6%? so 94% of people Have jobs. Isnt Nz govt looking to attract foreign nurses?

    If you want no risks then indeed best is to do nothing.









    Figures released Wednesday by the Real Estate Institute of New Zealand indicate the median house price in Auckland is 835,000 New Zealand dollars ($547,000) while the median price across the country is NZ$550,000 ($361,000).

    You wont get a house in Auckland for less than half a million, and if you do it would make a card board box look like luxury...

    and everybody needs to live in Auckland? and stillit is only 12 years of salary for inexperienced nurse... with a married couple you got 6 years. What a tragedy! and hpuse is not 6 bedroom? shit.  so how much is 100m apartment of house ? outside Auckland?





    Especially with structural'long time joblessness and elderly people wanting to work.

    When you reach retirement age often you are discarded by society, but while there are plenty who should really be discarded well before retirement age there are plenty who would like to keep working, or perform roles within society that are still useful.

    dodgers and crooks always find their way before those who are really in need. But this doesnt mean you shouldn't help those  who need it.  I didnt see much of grey haired specialists discarded. There are also programmes for people 50+ like tax or social security help for companies employing them. With demographic crisis taking down experienced people makes your economy suffer. Surely construction workers have to re-educate as i hardly can see 60y old carrying concrete slabs.






    OK then they shouldnt complain about loans this was clearly they had chosen such job.
    Of course they should not complain... 40 years ago their 100K plus student loan for their course cost $250 a year to enrol in, but now it costs over $100K... why should they be bitter?
    They should just do the job that costs the least to learn to do and be happy.  Rolling Eyes

    https://www.timeshighereducation.com/student/advice/cost-studying-university-new-zealand

    that's for foreign not locals.
    programme costs not year. P/Ais mor elett 6,5k NZ$
    undergtaduate arts/social - 20k NZ$
    engineering/science...........25k NZ$

    starting salary for technician is 40k+

    what is the rest of loan for? drugs? travelling around the world?







    In my experience most of the people I know who have had kids did it when their couples friends had kids... I want a house, I want a car... and my friend has just had a baby... I want one too. It almost never has anything to do with continuing the species.

    if you want your kids you dotn think about spices it would be strange at least. Wen you see a hot chick do you really think about dying ou population? or something more pleasant?   Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil

    that's how evilution works. Result of pleasant activities are called children. That's how evolution works  cheers  cheers  cheers





    Of course... even people who don't want kids can sometimes get a surprise, but it is truly sad when a couple find that it is not an option. Not that just wanting kids and not being able to have them would make them perfect parents, but having them and not wanting them... well...

    that's why adopting children should be better organized and people not wanting them should definitely have them Ever. But we talk here about thos majority of population which is prone to PR and lifestyle you promote in media.




    As long as it takes to get job and have own money? if you have job away then you earn money and can rent something.

    And that depends on culture too.... I know a few Indian families where children work and save up money while still living with parents... when board costs are low or nothing and subsidised by parents then you can really save a lot of money if you are careful...

    There are benefits for the parents too... they can go on holiday without worrying, and would get help around the place too.

    I'm not Indian but that's how is worked in socialism  cheers  cheers  cheers



    and you cannot insure about work disability at any age in NZ?

    The people who would need it the most are the ones least likely to afford it...

    Then again either you have helping family or you take a risk.




    It is probably different here because Otago University and Otago Polytechnic are here in Dunedin, so huge numbers of new graduates are being pumped out each year. It is also much better lifestyle to much bigger cities in NZ without problems of a really big city... when you have kids it is a nice place to move back to... so what tends to happen is most of those that get their degrees or whatever move away and get experience and start a family but often come back... with experience.

    There is not a huge abundance of jobs here, though the gigabit internet government push has really helped and lots of new IT companies are appearing here at the moment.

    official data says for 2018:

    GDP growth 3,9%
    jobless rate: 4,4%

    are you trying to say kids after engineering colleges cannot get any job?! surely in each country there are people who cannot but this is just fringe of population.



    When I was a student you got about 50$ less per week than an unemployed person... and you paid income tax on that and also goods and services tax on everything you buy... and a nice big student loan to pay for tuition.

    OK I'm not asking about you personal situation but in bulk where are parents? they kick out kids after 17th birthdays? I emanaverage population?




    Slowly so far but yes. Because of growing birth rates and immigration. But will get low around 2030 because of 90s significant drop. There is program to support families but really massive immigration can help. Sucking 3-5 millions from Ukraine and 2-3 form other countries can surely help

    You keep saying help, but how does that benefit Russia?

    and who is going to build northern route and all those highways, railways, factories ? who is gonna design all those fighters, jet liners or space rockets? hpo is gonna plow fields and gather crops?

    and who is to create internal market and buy flats, houses, cars?






    When I was a young fellow losing a job was not the end of the world... you'd have another job by the end of the week... but loyalty was respected... spending 20 years in a job was a good thing... these days... what is wrong with you?

    with me nothing? I've never spent more than 7 years in one company  too dangerous. Change is good. Well perhaps it is good to check how job market reacts for different age groups, what jobs you are perspective first? surely not everybody thinks about it. Job  market evolves. If you dont follow evolution you endanger your career  being a blacksmith in era of still works.  Loyalty is a story told by orpos. Samll companies? this might count in small ones but in large? c'mon they always preach about ethics but their owners often  end up in jails for cheats   thumbsup  thumbsup  thumbsup


    The problem is that because education is so lucrative they are making things harder... in the old days, you left your kids with parents of family members, but these days they have child minding services... but those who work as child carers need education certificates and qualifications just to keep an eye on the little ones while their parents go to work to pay for it. You can't just keep a supervisory eye on the kids so they don't get hurt... you have to actively educate and stimulate their minds...

    all true



    Of course there are plenty of jobs where on the job training should be enough... half the crap I learned at university about the IT industry was bollocks... we learned how to do system proposals and develop prototype systems that could then be developed into custom designed software for an employer... in the real world that would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, so you just buy off the shelf programmes and adapt them to your needs...

    second that




    so why then cry you dont have well paid job? dunno dunno dunno either your family is rich or you just live your life within your means.

    Of course... only rich people should be educated in arts and history... and management and marketing and economics will become the dominant sectors in University politics... people becoming more cattle like every day... but what has higher learning got to do with quality education?

    meh for capitalists they alwasy been  as for higher education- most of people dontneed it, why do need to have and expensive education to do fairly simple  job? You need in case  you're good enough to become a scientist.
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    Regular

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Regular on Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:40 am

    For me it was real eye opener to travel and observe todays people of the world. Big majority of people are nothing but clones.They are all only interested in alcohol, food, sex, holidays, luxury. China, Russia, USA. All the same.
    These people are just biomass, cattle that needa to be herded. Rich, poor. It doesn't matter. No need to symphatase with them.
    How we are supposed to explore space and progress if we are like pest, overpopulating and over-exploiting. Our only progress is towards our consumption.
    Strong leaders should emerge and guide them. They should build thrones out their skulls.
    As a species we aren't going anywhere, we need to progress and transcend above our animalistic desires. There's not enough research for genetic engineering, cloning and true AI. Even humans with todays technology could bread out superior subspecies that could replace certain type of peoples in society. I am talking about soldiers, politicians, doctors and etc.
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    franco

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  franco on Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:52 pm

    For lack of a better post to link this article, my main interest was the figures of Russians still living outside of Russia in the old USSR.

    https://russia-insider.com/en/russian-exodus-kazakhstan-over-nationalist-policies-continues-two-thirds-37-million-russians-wants
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:46 pm

    Putin signed a new concept of migration policy in Russia

    Russian President Vladimir Putin at the VI World Congress of Compatriots said that he signed a new concept of state migration policy, which will simplify the acquisition of Russian citizenship for compatriots.
    https://russian.rt.com/russia/news/569206-putin-migracionnaya-politika



    franco wrote:For lack of a better post to link this article, my main interest was the figures of Russians still living outside of Russia in the old USSR.

    https://russia-insider.com/en/russian-exodus-kazakhstan-over-nationalist-policies-continues-two-thirds-37-million-russians-wants




    BTW Not sure if those numbers about Russians in Ukraine are correct. 17%? Most of Ukraine till 2014 was talking in Russian. Half of Ukraine is Russian land given by Lenin to Ukrainian Republic. Later was Ukrop Khrushchev who "gave" Crimea to Ukraine.

    Firebird

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Firebird on Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:25 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:

    Putin signed a new concept of migration policy in Russia


    Russian President Vladimir Putin at the VI World Congress of Compatriots said that he signed a new concept of state migration policy, which will simplify the acquisition of Russian citizenship for compatriots.
    https://russian.rt.com/russia/news/569206-putin-migracionnaya-politika



    franco wrote:For lack of a better post to link this article, my main interest was the figures of Russians still living outside of Russia in the old USSR.

    https://russia-insider.com/en/russian-exodus-kazakhstan-over-nationalist-policies-continues-two-thirds-37-million-russians-wants




    BTW Not sure if those numbers about Russians in Ukraine are correct. 17%? Most of Ukraine till 2014 was talking in Russian. Half of Ukraine is Russian land given by Lenin to Ukrainian Republic. Later was Ukrop Khrushchev who "gave" Crimea to Ukraine.

    I think Russia needs to be RE-RUSSIFYING the Ukraine, Central Asia etc. NOT "de-Russifying" it. Especially given that so much of that land is historically Russian and was "given" to other Soviet republics. I hope Russia is prepared for any idiocy from Kazakstan. It seemed very late reacting to the hohol Banderite scum in the Ukraine.
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    Nibiru

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Nibiru on Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:40 pm


    I think Russia needs to be RE-RUSSIFYING the Ukraine, Central Asia etc. NOT "de-Russifying" it. Especially given that so much of that land is historically Russian and was "given" to other Soviet republics. I hope Russia is prepared for any idiocy from Kazakstan. It seemed very late reacting to the hohol Banderite scum in the Ukraine.

    I completely agree with Firebird. what Russia needs is to expand its power and influence throughout the former Soviet Union, this will help make it easier to absorb these countries in the future when Russia is powerful enough to retake it's lost territories as a result of the Soviet collapse.

    Also repatriating ethnic Russians back to Russia is not a bad idea, but it will deplete the presence of ethnic Russians in neighbouring former Soviet countries, which will result to decreased influence in these territories. I know that at Russia's current demographic situation, exporting ethnic Russians for the purpose of influence operations (like China) is not feasible, but this is something Russia needs to do in the future to make its territorial claims stronger especially in former soviet countries which are originally part of the Russian Empire.
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    Walther von Oldenburg

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:16 pm

    it should also be a good idea to make Russia attractive to foreigners other than guest workers from Central Asia

    Make it easier for people from Europe, especially Eastern Europe, to move to Russia.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:09 pm


    Actually Russian needs people who want to feel Russians, contribute and assimilate. Their ethnicity not necessarily is to be important thing here. Guy from Tajikistan or Armenia can be much more pro Russian then "western liberast" from St Peterburg.


    You are right ...partially IMHO ;-)

    Ukraine? Russian shouldn't be Russyficating Ukraine but not let banderize" them, that's enough. Similar to Belarus. Average Ukrainian without nazi-bandera police and brain washing can be friendly salo eater ;-)

    One thing is a must tho: in long term you have to support indigenous population growth and assimilation mechanisms.
    The rest is covered by economic opportunities. people come to earn and live nicely ;-)

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    Walther von Oldenburg

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:34 pm

    IMO without its western parts Ukraine would have long looked like Belarus - i.e. Russia in everything but name only.


    Stripping Ukraine of its human capital has already begun. Already everyone with any level of education has either left the country or is planning to leave (reform of immigraation law in Russia is aimed at Ukrainians mostly). Ukro government neeed to postpone population census until 2020 as to hide the scale of demographic collapse (last one was in 2001).


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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Nibiru on Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:58 pm


    video from vesti shows how difficult it is even for ethnic Russians to obtain residency permits in Russia, Putin has been promoting repatriation of Russians from abroad for many years and yet the whole process of obtaining citizenship is still plagued by corruption and many other hurdles.

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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:39 pm

    Nibiru wrote:
    video from vesti shows how difficult it is even for ethnic Russians to obtain residency permits in Russia, Putin has been promoting repatriation of Russians from abroad for many years and yet the whole process of obtaining citizenship is still plagued by corruption and many other hurdles.

    That's precisely why this law was passed. To remove barriers. Otherwise economy wont grow.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GarryB on Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:06 am

    Russia does not need to poach people from its neighbours, what it needs to do is focus on itself and stop trying to carry any of its hostile neighbours.

    When Russia becomes rather more successful Russian people around the place will realise it is not the place they left, or their families left and that there is something to go back to that offers a future for their children... but of course at the end of the day some people are not going to go back no matter what and that is fine... you don't want people who don't want to be there...

    You just need to make things as good as you can make them... and that is in the cities and in the country side... Russia does not need to invade anyone or destabilise anyone, what it needs to do is take the hints... who is opposing them... who is actively undermining them... trying to destabilise them...

    Cut relations with such countries until such time as they change their attitude and relations with Russia.

    Sell them things, but avoid buying their products and don't build strong ties with countries who wish you harm, because if you give them levers to pull to harm your economy they are likely to pull them.

    There are an enormous number of countries around the world who want to trade, but don't want to be told how to develop and progress as a nation... a Russian trade partnership where there are no demands for this or that would be a welcome change from what they get from western countries.

    It does not matter if the country you are selling wheat to is not rich... or you are selling nuclear power plants to is not rich... but food and electricity provide stability which is critical for their growth and development... and you can grow and develop together.

    Of course in 20 years time when you have replaced the EU and US in terms of trade and you are doing rather well you might need to send an aircraft carrier to Africa to protect your interests or protect an allies interests, but over time building trade links and selling products will make more than enough money to cover such requirements in the future.
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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Nibiru on Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:41 pm


    Here is a short video about how China is successfully dealing with Islamic radicalism in its own territory. How I'd wish Russia is doing the same thing, I think Russia's approach to Islamic fundamentalism is flawed and needs to be improved, Insurgencies are down thanks to relentless anti terror ops against militants throughout the North Caucasus and all other regions but still, if you look at Chechnya today despite all the infrastructure improvements, you can still feel an atmosphere of Islamic fundamentalism in every day life like dress code for chechen women, prohibition of alcohol, and non stop construction of New Mosques Rolling Eyes I know Russia is not an Atheistic country anymore but instead they can introduce Russian Orthodoxy to Muslims within the Russian federation while expanding the faith to Russia's immediate borders.

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    Walther von Oldenburg

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:48 pm

    Islam in Russia exists not only in Chechnya. There is also Tatarstan, Bashkiria and lots of migrants from Central Asia. They weren't a problem in Tsarist times, SOviet times and they are not a problem today.
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    Nibiru

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Nibiru on Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:15 pm

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Islam in Russia exists not only in Chechnya. There is also Tatarstan, Bashkiria and lots of migrants from Central Asia. They weren't a problem in Tsarist times, SOviet times and they are not a problem today.

    Areas with significant Islamic populations are a hotbed for Radicalism, Separatism and Violence. Chechnya in Russia, Bosnia in Yugoslavia, Xinjiang in China, Southern Thailand, Southern Philippines, Rakhine in Myanmar, Pakistan and Bangladesh successfully seceded from India, even Muslim majority countries like Indonesia has problem with Aceh islamic separatists, and this list is just the tip of the iceberg. Meanwhile in Islamic majority countries, there is an Overt and Covert effort to stifle minority religious groups and make Islam the supreme religious ideology, minority religions in Islamic countries continue to DECLINE, while Muslims continue to GROW in both Islamic and non-Islamic majority countries. In about 50 to 100 years there will be a complete Islamic takeover unless non-Muslims start to resist Global Islamization, it is like a ticking time bomb that will lead to a global catastrophic event.

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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:27 pm

    Nibiru wrote:
    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Islam in Russia exists not only in Chechnya. There is also Tatarstan, Bashkiria and lots of migrants from Central Asia. They weren't a problem in Tsarist times, SOviet times and they are not a problem today.

    Areas with significant Islamic populations are a hotbed for Radicalism, Separatism and Violence. Chechnya in Russia, Bosnia in Yugoslavia, Xinjiang in China, ............

    And if you bothered to do your homework you would know that Chechnia is exception to the rule in Russia

    As for Bosnia, those maggots are radicals because they are paid to be radicals.

    Give them better offer and they will all convert to Buddhism or Scientology as long as the check clears the bank.



    Nibiru wrote:........non-Muslims start to resist Global Islamization, it is like a ticking time bomb that will lead to a global catastrophic event.

    Well if fate of non-Muslims is in the hands of non-Muslims then I say that non-Muslims are screwed given their track record of waging jihad on Muslim behalf... Razz
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    Walther von Oldenburg

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:28 pm

    Cutting financial support from Gulf countries to Islamic radicals should be a priority together with banning all foreign educated clerics from preaching in the country.

    China has a total ban on all religious activity financed from abroad - Russia could enact something comparable + use diplomatic pressure to force Gulf countries to rethink some of their policies. Either stop financing terrorists or your F-15s will start falling from the sky en masse in Yemen.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GarryB on Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:02 am

    I seem to remember a while back that Saudi Arabia wanted to build a super mosque in Moscow... which kinda sounds funny when you say it... but I seem to remember the Russian response was sure... as long as we can build an enormous orthodox christian church in Mecca...

    They didn't build the Mosque.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:51 am

    GarryB wrote:Russia does not need to poach people from its neighbours, what it needs to do is focus on itself and stop trying to carry any of its hostile neighbors.
    +++

    Cut relations with such countries until such time as they change their attitude and relations with Russia.


    If you mean Ukraine ? technically Ukrainians, Russians and Belorussians are actually one nation divided among 3 states. Ukrainian society has been brainwashed by US since late 80s.
    As for attitude towards Russia - why do you think in US governed countries nation=govt?


    As for Russians abroad. There ar e millions in post-Soviet space. Many of them would gladly return. Why not to help them? especially that there is "hole of 90s" and even with decent fertility per woman number of children born will decrease not to mention working population size.

    PR related to country success can work in about one generation. In order to grow economy Russia needs more and quicker people who want to assimilate.



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