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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GarryB on Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:15 am

    Abortions are remains of the SU. They were free of charge, therefore most women didn´t care.

    Of course... when abortions are free then women will terminate a pregnancy... obviously if they had to pay for an abortion they would keep every child because there are no moral or ethical, or emotional factors... obviously a $5,000 abortion will put them off spending $200,000 for the next 18 years bringing up a child I mean it is just a no brainer.

    Every sperm is sacred of course, and forcing women to keep unwanted children is great for society... perhaps you could start a government service that pays women to have children that can be sold on the open market and make a profit for the women and the government and at the same time boost the population.

    Or just invite the bottom 10% income earners in China to come over the border and become Russian citizens?

    Or perhaps not care so much how quickly Russia is overpopulating the planet and indeed realise that earths resources are finite, while human population is growing exponentially... that is not a healthy equation for anyone...

    "Enough to fill 2 schools’: 700 kids died after falling from windows in Russia this year – ombudsman."

    But only one school if that school has more than 4 floors and windows that open.... clown

    How about make it a criminal offence to fall out a window?

    Firebird

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Firebird on Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:25 am

    https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicators/SP.DYN.IMRT.IN/compare?country=ru#country=br🇨🇳cz🇫🇷de🇷🇺gb:us

    Russia's infant mortality rate isn't hugely different to the USA, Britain etc.
    And its better than "emerging nations" like Brazil.

    I wonder if the windows stat was true or just a misquoted figure of speech.
    Russia does need to improve stuff like road and air safety and different things. But the West eg USA and Britain certainly has its problems too - gun crime, food banks, stabbings etc
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    Walther von Oldenburg

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:21 am

    Garry - I agree mostly except that thing about population.

    Earth's population is not exploding. In fact we are already past the most intensive phase of growth and birth rates all around the world are decreasing. China has birth rate of about 1.3 kids per women, India around 2.3 but it will also hit below replacement within a decade. We still see quite fast growth in Sub Saharan Africa but strictly becaise infant mortality is dropping. Actual birth rates aren't getting any higher.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:02 am

    That's why propagating healthy family model (3-4 kids) with focusing not on numbers but on supporting kids and educating them. Of course along with support programmes, Like job flexibility, support for pregnant women, families, property buying preferences, parents eave (also dads). iShoult be top now.


    As stop gap for Russia is targeted immigration, especially qualified workforce + programmes for assimilation.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GarryB on Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:54 am

    Earth's population is not exploding.

    For millions of years the number of people on this planet was tiny and from the 1800s to the 1930s despite a world war and a disease epidemic that killed 100 million people we doubled from 1 billion to 2 billion, and the last just under one hundred years it has gone from 2 billion to almost 8 billion.... in recent history it has been 10-12 years to add a billion people to the worlds population...

    If that is not a problem, I don't know what is...

    Personally I think Russias future would be better promoting quality of life and health and education rather than quantity....
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:39 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Earth's population is not exploding.

    For millions of years the number of people on this planet was tiny and from the 1800s to the 1930s despite a world war and a disease epidemic that killed 100 million people we doubled from 1 billion to 2 billion, and the last just under one hundred years it has gone from 2 billion to almost 8 billion.... in recent history it has been 10-12 years to add a billion people to the worlds population...

    If that is not a problem, I don't know what is...

    problem is when people dont read numbers but only tabloids' headlines. basis grow and fertility rates drop significantly. I is enough land and resources. The distribution of thereof sucks. Admitting this would negate all "anglosaxon democratic world order" and proving colonial imperialist system is on and doing well. Thats' why all mainstream propaganda talks about overpopulation.

    Average fertility rate dropped roughly twice from 1950 (5,05) to 2015 (2,49) and downward trend continues. Mind that 2,1 is reproduction level.
    https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rate


    Personally I think Russias future would be better promoting quality of life and health and education rather than quantity....

    Clearly you are fan of Greenland's way of life. But if Russia wants to be a pole in multipolar world it wotn work that way. Russia must grow much larger in terms of population as it affects economy development and military power. Numbers dont lie.

    Population density (people/km2)
    Russia.....................................9
    New Zealand............................18
    Brazil......................................25
    USA........................................33
    do you suggest Brazil is overcrowded? or USA? New Zealand has 2x bigger density than Russia. Not sure if they counted Uruk hai and hobbits tho lol1 lol1 lol1

    Russia can have easily 500mln population and still have population density between Brazil and the USA...




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    Walther von Oldenburg

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:23 pm

    Where woUld you put those people? Most of Russia is arctic wasteland... almost.

    Sub Saharan Africa has seen explosive demographic growth because applicaion of modern medicine, sanitation and agricultural techniques allowed the population to finally reach the carrying capacity of the environment - which is higher in tropical climate than in Eastern Europe.
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  AlfaT8 on Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:24 pm

    Been down this road before, anyway, if Russia wants more kids, then they need to put consequences for women who don't have kids.

    Too many people believe that giving women more money means they'll have more kids, this is a LIE, this will simply raise the woman's standards for a partner.
    Which means fewer men will live up to her standards, ergo making less kids instead of more.
    The Europeans fell for this Ruse like the suckers they are.

    Luckily, Russia isn't that stupid, although they placed benefits to those who actually have kids, they forgot to put consequences to those who don't.
    Too many people think that the lack of benefits, is the consequence, it's not.

    IMO, Russia should bring back the Draft for women, this Draft method is the best way for Russia to "persuade" women to get kids.

    Even the women who don't see this as a consequence, can use this as a possible way to find a quality partner, although i am not sure whether this is a good or a bad thing.
    Mostly, because of my lack of knowledge on Russian military culture.

    It really depends how the State wants to go with this.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:52 am

    Clearly you are fan of Greenland's way of life.

    I have no desire to become a battery hen...

    There is no value in having a lot more people... except from the perspective of people who aren't here yet.

    I think there are enough problems at the moment that more people will just make worse, not better.

    If 8.6% of the worlds population control something like 83 percent of the earths wealth and resources then increasing the population size will only make that worse.

    But if Russia wants to be a pole in multipolar world it wotn work that way. Russia must grow much larger in terms of population as it affects economy development and military power. Numbers dont lie.

    The numbers you give refute your own stance...

    Population density (people/km2)
    Russia.....................................9
    New Zealand............................18
    Brazil......................................25
    USA........................................33
    do you suggest Brazil is overcrowded? or USA? New Zealand has 2x bigger density than Russia.

    Are you suggesting that New Zealand is more powerful than Russia because we have a higher population density?

    Is Hong Kong the most powerful country on the planet because they are stacked vertically like rats in a small space that is not getting any bigger?

    Russia can have easily 500mln population and still have population density between Brazil and the USA...

    Why?

    You haven't said why a large population density is a good thing yet.

    Sub Saharan Africa has seen explosive demographic growth because applicaion of modern medicine, sanitation and agricultural techniques allowed the population to finally reach the carrying capacity of the environment - which is higher in tropical climate than in Eastern Europe.

    Such improvements often come with increased education, which leads to a decline in family numbers... having 20 children is necessary when more than half don't make it to their 10th birthday because you need a few to look after you in your old age, but if all 20 survived there would be a real problem keeping them all fed and clothed, so abortion or contraception become a useful tools to keep numbers manageable...

    Been down this road before, anyway, if Russia wants more kids, then they need to put consequences for women who don't have kids.

    Yeah... punish nuns...

    First you need to prove why an increasing population is a good thing to the people, but you also have to create a society where people think it would be a good environment where children can be brought up healthy and safe.

    IMO, Russia should bring back the Draft for women, this Draft method is the best way for Russia to "persuade" women to get kids.

    Can you explain why a larger population is so damn important... and don't bother with any bullshit about good for the economy... making people have kids they don't really want is going to lead to some fucking pissed off kids...

    Australia thought that the best solution for all these aboriginies having all these kids was to take them away and give them to nice white families so they could grow up and be good Australian citizens.

    That didn't really work and created a very unhappy generation of people...

    This social experiment shit is very Nazi and very German, but also very British and very Colonial...

    If you want Russian women to have kids then create an environment where one person can earn enough in one job to pay for a house and a car and support a wife and children.

    When two people need two jobs each just to eventually buy a house kids only come along by accident... and if someone gets sick there is serious problems and stress...
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    Hole

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Hole on Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:58 am

    We are close to the development of AI. Robots and Drones are everywhere. You don´t need 500 million people to be a great power. Pakistan, India, Indonesia got much more people than Russia and they are less powerful.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:08 am

    Hole wrote:We are close to the development of AI. Robots and Drones are everywhere. You don´t need 500 million people to be a great power. Pakistan, India, Indonesia got much more people than Russia and they are less powerful.

    No. Just no.

    First off, AI is a joke. It doesnt really exist as it still follows lines of code or takes code in a library structure and comes up with a follow up code to "teach" itself.

    As well, you end up making yourself susceptible to hacking and electronic warfare. See advanced RQ-170 drone and Iran.

    Robots also don't buy goods. Working humans do. No current exonomic model exists that would work we're everyone sits on their ass collecting welfare while government doesn't go broke because of that.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:19 am

    But equally, a country with 1.5 billion people has 1.5 billion people to look after and to fend for... China might be an economic power house, but country number one is there with 300 million people.... not 300 billion.

    Having a large population does not ensure or secure wealth or success...

    And I really don't think AI and robots are going to solve more problems than they create.

    People keep citing Azimovs rules for Robots, but I have seen a few robots and none of them appear to understand those rules let alone follow them and I see no reason why robots of the future would either.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:28 am

    GarryB wrote:But equally, a country with 1.5 billion people has 1.5 billion people to look after and to fend for... China might be an economic power house, but country number one is there with 300 million people.... not 300 billion.

    Having a large population does not ensure or secure wealth or success...

    And I really don't think AI and robots are going to solve more problems than they create.

    People keep citing Azimovs rules for Robots, but I have seen a few robots and none of them appear to understand those rules let alone follow them and I see no reason why robots of the future would either.

    Referring to US wealth is a joke cause their method of economics is where everything is going wrong. Debt = growth for them. Over inflated wages and value of cost of items, etc. Then of course it's their trade and control of business world wide.

    We have our engineers making robotics and AI for "shoppers convenience. No one here trusts robotics or "AI".
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    Hole

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Hole on Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:15 pm

    Building your economy on the consumption model leads to debt problems like in Amiland, Japan and so on.

    Productivity is important. In India or China you will see hundreds of people on a construction side doing things that in Germany or Russia one guy would do with a fork lift or a crane.

    Using robots and drones to do simple jobs, like delivering goods or helping at construction sides and so on, and computers to use things better would free up a lot of people to do more important things.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:11 pm

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Where woUld you put those people? Most of Russia is arctic wasteland... almost.

    ekhm I cannot agree with you on this topic. Below my point of view explaining why.

    1) Russia is a country with worlds over 10% arable grounds ( form 2012 so now even more) . With 2x higher arable land per person than in the USA?

    2) Surgut, Murmansk, Krasnoyarsk, Irkutsk, Yakutsk or Chelyabinsk do they qualify as arctic? check their climates. Yes Russians built cities in subarctic terrains and it seems to work for them. As long as you got technology, money and people to populate them.

    BTW Sverdlovsk is in arctic for you? (Siberian plain) pop 4,5milions?

    True that climatic conditions are not as mild as in Italy. They can be very harsh yet there is ~half of lands habitable.


    3) Google says 73% Russian population lives in urban areas. Most of large cities cloud grow 2-3 times within 50-80 years easily. Especially that with climate gets milder.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:37 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    There is no value in having a lot more people... except from the perspective of people who aren't here yet.
    I think there are enough problems at the moment that more people will just make worse, not better.
    If 8.6% of the worlds population control something like 83 percent of the earths wealth and resources then increasing the population size will only make that worse.

    interesting theory but doesn't explain why most populated countries are most powerful?




    But if Russia wants to be a pole in multipolar world it wotn work that way. Russia must grow much larger in terms of population as it affects economy development and military power. Numbers dont lie.

    The numbers you give refute your own stance...




    do you suggest Brazil is overcrowded? or USA? New Zealand has 2x bigger density than Russia.
    Are you suggesting that New Zealand is more powerful than Russia because we have a higher population density?

    You dont seem to understand a difference between  population and density.  Density is how crowded you live. Got it now? Russia having 300 million population  is still less crowded then
    Brazil. Roughly on level of NZ.



    You haven't said why a large population density is a good thing yet.

    I ve clearly chosen countries with extremely low to low population density. High to me is not god at all. Do you understand what high is?  

    South Korea......515
    Holland.............416
    Israel................404   lol1  lol1  lol1



    First you need to prove why an increasing population is a good thing to the people,

    childless families are the future Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil its so gay  lol1  lol1  lol1

    but you also have to create a society where people think it would be a good environment where children can be brought up healthy and safe.
    True, but not only money also promoting also family lifestyle.




    If you want Russian women to have kids then create an environment where one person can earn enough in one job to pay for a house and a car and support a wife and children.

    Well and why always mom have stay at home? like kids need no dad?!  affraid  affraid  affraid  c'mon There will be unlikely environment that 1 person can buy all. Of course depending on lifestyle. Thats why institution of family is for (aunties grandmas, grandpas)  cheers  cheers  cheers



    When two people need two jobs each just to eventually buy a house kids only come along by accident... and if someone gets sick there is serious problems and stress...
    That's called socialism where state takes care of such things.  What is actually good. I've lived part of my life there and wasnt bad at all unlike all US agents say  lol1  lol1  lol1
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:18 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Been down this road before, anyway, if Russia wants more kids, then they need to put consequences for women who don't have kids.
    IMO, Russia should bring back the Draft for women, this Draft method is the best way for Russia to "persuade" women to get kids.
    Yeah... punish nuns...

    First you need to prove why an increasing population is a good thing to the people, but you also have to create a society where people think it would be a good environment where children can be brought up healthy and safe.

    Can you explain why a larger population is so damn important... and don't bother with any bullshit about good for the economy... making people have kids they don't really want is going to lead to some fucking pissed off kids...

    Australia thought that the best solution for all these aboriginies having all these kids was to take them away and give them to nice white families so they could grow up and be good Australian citizens.

    That didn't really work and created a very unhappy generation of people...

    This social experiment shit is very Nazi and very German, but also very British and very Colonial...

    If you want Russian women to have kids then create an environment where one person can earn enough in one job to pay for a house and a car and support a wife and children.

    When two people need two jobs each just to eventually buy a house kids only come along by accident... and if someone gets sick there is serious problems and stress...

    Exceptions.

    Is that not the entire point of this thread?
    Not necessarily, you need an environment where women need to have kids.

    Like i said, is the increase in Russian population the point of this thread?
    If the state deems it necessary to increase the population, then their feeling don't matter, in the face of extinction any alternative is a better choice.

    Australia simply didn't want to invest in foster homes, typical cheap gov. invest as little as possible.
    This is assuming these kids didn't have parents to go back to.

    What??.... is society itself not a social experiment, where's this Nazi straw-man coming from??

    In short, you need to create an environment where the women are dependent on the man and said man has authority over them.
    A patriarchal society.

    Then drop the housing price, can someone like Putin not do that?
    Or get a loan?
    Either way, this is the common excuse, "house and family are too expensive", oh please, my parents are still paying off their loan.
    Although banks have become more strict on loans nowadays, at least where i live.

    I think you mean crippled in this context, and yea that would be a serious problem, luckily most of the times the kids are already working themselves, so they'll help.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GarryB on Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:50 am

    Productivity is important. In India or China you will see hundreds of people on a construction side doing things that in Germany or Russia one guy would do with a fork lift or a crane.

    You just said the opposite of what you probably intended to say.

    If one guy with a forklift or a crane can do the work of hundreds, then when you train hundreds in the work and buy hundreds of forklifts and cranes then you can do with 100 people in Germany or Russia what it would take thousands of people to do in India or China.

    Of course there are forklifts and cranes in India and China too.

    Productivity is getting the job done quickly and using the least resources needed.... if you want to have 1,000 people working on a farm to keep that farm operating normally then that is 1,000 times wages and food and accommodation, but if you have farm machinery and just have 10 people working that farm to the same or better level then you can use 1,000 people to work 10 farms with 10 times the productivity of the farm with all manual labour...

    Using robots and drones to do simple jobs, like delivering goods or helping at construction sides and so on, and computers to use things better would free up a lot of people to do more important things.

    But it also means when those robots and drones fail you need people to support and fix them, so instead of dumb manual labour which is cheap and abundant in poor countries, you need university educated electricians and mechanics to keep things going...

    interesting theory but doesn't explain why most populated countries are most powerful?

    8.3 percent of the population in the US control 80+% of wealth and power... adding people to the equation... say they come from over the southern border... does not add to the 8.6%, it adds to the rest that don't have wealth and power... and in most countries the figures are getting worse... the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer... how does more bodies improve that except adding bodies to the pool of conscription so foreign wars can earn the 8.6% more wealth and power...

    You dont seem to understand a difference between population and density. Density is how crowded you live. Got it now? Russia having 300 million population is still less crowded then
    Brazil. Roughly on level of NZ.

    So what are you trying to say... Russia needs more people and less land so its population density increases?

    I really don't think increased density makes a difference either... Japans economy is not that great and the aging population seem to prefer having sex with dolls and robots than with other people, so that is not going to help population stability either.

    I ve clearly chosen countries with extremely low to low population density. High to me is not god at all. Do you understand what high is?

    Your examples didn't prove your point either... they aren't powerful countries.

    childless families are the future... its so gay...

    Some families don't get a choice... but the world is hardly going to end if not every family has children.

    True, but not only money also promoting also family lifestyle.

    As long as it is white blue eyed people only of course.... yes sir

    Well and why always mom have stay at home? like kids need no dad?! affraid affraid affraid c'mon There will be unlikely environment that 1 person can buy all. Of course depending on lifestyle. Thats why institution of family is for (aunties grandmas, grandpas)

    Different cultures are different, but aunties will have their own kids wont they, and most grampas I know prefer to be out in the garden shed than chasing around a 4 year old.

    That's called socialism where state takes care of such things. What is actually good. I've lived part of my life there and wasnt bad at all unlike all US agents say

    I prefer socialism too... government should be about supporting people... and I don't mean handouts...

    But before demanding women start having lots of children... are the health and education systems up to the challenge, what about playgrounds and schools and parks... are all those houses in the city big enough... swimming pools, etc etc.

    If the state deems it necessary to increase the population, then their feeling don't matter, in the face of extinction any alternative is a better choice.

    Extinction is rather unlikely... certainly an extinction that does not include everyone (ie mushroom clouds silver lining)...

    Australia simply didn't want to invest in foster homes, typical cheap gov. invest as little as possible.
    This is assuming these kids didn't have parents to go back to.

    The parents were told their child died in childbirth and the kids were not told who their parents were.

    What??.... is society itself not a social experiment, where's this Nazi straw-man coming from??

    Is it the place of the government to take children from parents?

    In short, you need to create an environment where the women are dependent on the man and said man has authority over them.
    A patriarchal society.

    Why? Can he beat her up and rape her too?

    Then drop the housing price, can someone like Putin not do that?
    Or get a loan?

    Most powerful man in the Universe... he can rig elections anywhere... just a wave of his magic wand and house prices plummet... careful though the Americans might start blaming him for the 2008 economic problems too.

    Or get a loan?
    Either way, this is the common excuse, "house and family are too expensive", oh please, my parents are still paying off their loan.
    Although banks have become more strict on loans nowadays, at least where i live.

    Who can get a loan for a house... most will already have an enormous student debt... where is all this money coming from?

    And banks are reducing loans too...

    I think you mean crippled in this context, and yea that would be a serious problem, luckily most of the times the kids are already working themselves, so they'll help.

    So shift the problem to the next generation... they will have their parents debt as well as their own student debt and house debt on top of that... can you see how 8.6 percent of the population own 80% of the wealth and power... usually they own banks...

    And what disney story are you reading... what if they get sick and the kids are not old enough to work... the real world isn't that well organised...

    But you and others say pumping out kids will solve the problem... and I am asking how.
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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:08 am

    GarryB wrote:
    interesting theory but doesn't explain why most populated countries are most powerful?

    8.3 percent of the population in the US control 80+% of wealth and power... adding people to the equation... say they come from over the southern border... does not add to the 8.6%, it adds to the rest that don't have wealth and power... and in most countries the figures are getting worse... the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer... how does more bodies improve that except adding bodies to the pool of conscription so foreign wars can earn the 8.6% more wealth and power...

    What wealth?  money? money means nothing is there is nobody willing to work for those money. There is no wealth without people.  Money means nothing , resources (demographic, natural, work) is wealth. Wealth is foremost the function of  market size. Which in turn is related to size of population.

    More people is not only army. Distribution of IQ/skills is more less stable across population. If you have 1 genius on 100 and 10 good engineers. With 150mlns  you can build lunar stations, hypersonic missiles or poseidon drones. Luxemburg is rich, very. UAE too.  Show me any aerospace company? How many industrial robots or cars of own design do they make? What is their contribution to quantum computers or nuclear power tech? hypesronic tech? space exploration? genetics?





    You dont seem to understand a difference between  population and density.  Density is how crowded you live. Got it now? Russia having 300 million population  is still less crowded then
    Brazil. Roughly on level of NZ.

    So what are you trying to say... Russia needs more people and less land so its population density increases? [/quote]

    No. It means that with 3x size of population their density is very low and make and demographic potential to do any large projects is enormous.



    I really don't think increased density makes a difference either... Japans economy is not that great and the aging population seem to prefer having sex with dolls and robots than with other people, so that is not going to help population stability either.


    Japan - Population aging an economy is developing in whooping 0,5 % old people have unlikely risky pattern to investments and creation fo risky yet needed breakthrough. Show me what happens if Japan cannot import energy resources and food?


    Density of population means less arable lands  and less nature. Which in turn makes you dependent for outside world.  


    Population size = science economy industry military power tops. Population density - the lower the better comfort of living.



    childless families are the future... its so gay...  
    Some families don't get a choice... but the world is hardly going to end if not every family has children.

    True, but there is a huuuuuge difference between people without choice and people not willing to have kids although they have everything they need.  And true that world is nto going to end only when other families have 3-4 kids.






    True, but not only money also promoting also family lifestyle.
    As long as it is white blue eyed people only of course.... yes sir
    care t o elaborate?  Suspect  Suspect  Suspect




    Well and why always mom have stay at home? like kids need no dad?!  affraid  affraid  affraid  c'mon There will be unlikely environment that 1 person can buy all. Of course depending on lifestyle. Thats why institution of family is for (aunties grandmas, grandpas)

    Different cultures are different, but aunties will have their own kids wont they, and most grampas I know prefer to be out in the garden shed than chasing around a 4 year old.

    Some aunties do some aunties dont. Well then you prove my point. Those grampas dotn have neither family traditions nor ties. Most of grampas i know always help kids with raising grand children.  AFAIK the only reason why evolution let people to live after they cannot reproduce is .. raising grand children.



    But before demanding women start having lots of children... are the health and education systems up to the challenge, what about playgrounds and schools and parks... are all those houses in the city big enough... swimming pools, etc etc.

    3-4 is not lots its moderate yet positive. Why women only? to me there are 2 parents not women only. This is decision of 2 people not woman only.  Nobody is demanding anything, This is promoting lifestyle.  As I am for all that social infrastructure then I am not sure if we are thinking about same level?  In town I was raised there yes no swimming pool. Yet 5 lakes in walking distance. What is large houses? every kid needs 1 50m? room? otherwise you cannot have ? all shoes need to be Nike or Adidas, every kind needs in 18 to have a new luxury car and of course most expensive iphone.  And all vacations you need to travel around the world? no this is never going to be in any society.




    Who can get a loan for a house... most will already have an enormous student debt... where is all this money coming from?

    And banks are reducing loans too...

    In Europe there is something like free studies you know  lol1  lol1  lol1  ok you can pay like 500 € per year or so for admin costs.




    So shift the problem to the next generation... they will have their parents debt as well as their own student debt and house debt on top of that... can you see how 8.6 percent of the population own 80% of the wealth and power... usually they own banks...


    Your world must really suck. WTF you are talking about? Id never live in such world.  In  Europe here is still much more social. In town I live the average no kids per family is 3 (family I know). And both parents work nobody has education debts, education is for free (hehe in taxes) , most of people have 20-25 years mortgage  loans tho. Which is ~ 40%of  single av salary.  

    If people dont ride cars it is because they feel need to be eco and ride bikes/trains.
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  AlfaT8 on Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:10 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Extinction is rather unlikely... certainly an extinction that does not include everyone (ie mushroom clouds silver lining)...

    The heck do you think will happen with a continues decline in birth rate, something will have to give, and that will be to make women have kids.

    The parents were told their child died in childbirth and the kids were not told who their parents were.

    So the Chile situation, bunch of dumb Aussies.

    Is it the place of the government to take children from parents?

    If the parents can't take care of the kid, then yes.

    Why? Can he beat her up and rape her too?

    Nowadays even touching a woman is rape.
    With the continues declines in births, you either make the women have kids or you can do as the Eurotards did, and import their replacement and once the replacements take power, they will make the women have kids.

    Most powerful man in the Universe... he can rig elections anywhere... just a wave of his magic wand and house prices plummet... careful though the Americans might start blaming him for the 2008 economic problems too.

    So, he could do it.

    Who can get a loan for a house... most will already have an enormous student debt... where is all this money coming from?

    And banks are reducing loans too...

    Man you Westerner really screwed yourselves with that Student debt crisis.
    But since they have that debt, i would assume they also got a decent paying job, unless they were stupid enough to waste their college learning the "Arts".
    I would recommend going to a trade school or some community college instead.
    Recent business news are showing that businesses are beginning to drop their College requirements.

    Either way, in the scenario that you presented, we are dealing with an already married couple, the 2 of them could make a loan.
    Or you can take the extended family route and raise your kids at your parents house, but from what i heard this isn't really done so much in the States, because of some strange "Failure to launch" nonsense.

    That depends on the banks.

    So shift the problem to the next generation... they will have their parents debt as well as their own student debt and house debt on top of that... can you see how 8.6 percent of the population own 80% of the wealth and power... usually they own banks...

    And what disney story are you reading... what if they get sick and the kids are not old enough to work... the real world isn't that well organised...

    But you and others say pumping out kids will solve the problem... and I am asking how.

    It's the era of debt, what did you expect.
    Then hope that the parent payed of most of their debts, you don't get crippled for no reason.
    Don't get into that level of student debt to begin with.
    And pay-off the housing debt with your partner, assuming you have your own house, and if you gotta take care of that parent anyway, may as well rent out one of the houses.
    Socialism isn't the answer, period.

    Then their sh%t out of luck, send the kid away to live with someone else, and get help.

    If the problem is declining birth rates, then yes it will solve said problem.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:21 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    But since they have that debt, i would assume they also got a decent paying job, unless they were stupid enough to waste their college learning the "Arts".

    respekt respekt respekt

    damn I've just poured my coffee on kb




    I would recommend going to a trade school or some community college instead.
    Recent business news are showing that businesses are beginning to drop their College requirements.

    but then you are just a worker like high voltage technician or  nurse, paramedic not a white collar (on cash register tho) unshaven unshaven unshaven
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GarryB on Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:05 pm

    In Europe there is something like free studies you know lol1 lol1 lol1 ok you can pay like 500 € per year or so for admin costs.

    In the 1980s we had that... $250 tuition fees and study what you like except medicine and dentistry of course...

    Now a local is expected to pay between 6 and 8 thousand dollars a year in fees for any degree... it is only a matter of time before it hits European countries too...

    If the parents can't take care of the kid, then yes.

    The Australian government decided that abo parents were not capable of bringing up australian children because they are dumb natives and don't know what civilised is... they thought a white family upbringing would fix all the problems in the abo community... it made things much worse.

    People who no longer saw themselves as abo were rejected by whites because they were clearly abo, and they rejected abos themselves because they felt no connection to them and were different... but not different enough to be treated as whites.

    With the continues declines in births, you either make the women have kids or you can do as the Eurotards did, and import their replacement and once the replacements take power, they will make the women have kids.

    So rape gangs or seditives and artificial insemination?

    So, he could do it.

    Why would he want to do such a thing?

    Man you Westerner really screwed yourselves with that Student debt crisis.
    But since they have that debt, i would assume they also got a decent paying job, unless they were stupid enough to waste their college learning the "Arts".

    A degree does not get you a job... it gets you the interview.

    Student teachers will take most of their working careers to pay off their loans if they pay them off at the standard rate... it is just lots of income for someone.

    Either way, in the scenario that you presented, we are dealing with an already married couple, the 2 of them could make a loan.

    Who is going to give them a loan? What is their collateral?

    They have a student debt and no house... a mortgage on a house is just more debt...

    Then hope that the parent payed of most of their debts, you don't get crippled for no reason.

    What reason do people get Parkinsons or Altziemers?

    Old people have falls... So the cost of their care is going to burn up the value of the family home, so that wont pay off any student loans let alone contribute to any houses for the children...

    Don't get into that level of student debt to begin with.

    If you want a job it will either require work experience or qualifications... and you can't get experience without qualifications... sometimes even that is not enough... you need qualifications AND experience...

    And pay-off the housing debt with your partner, assuming you have your own house, and if you gotta take care of that parent anyway, may as well rent out one of the houses.
    Socialism isn't the answer, period.

    Free healthcare and free education mean the costs are eliminated and the standard of living is greatly improved... saw a video of a lady in an accident in the US and she pleaded with the people not to call an ambulance because she could not afford it... the bone was sticking out of her leg but she didn't want an ambulance... WTF is the point of having a super health system if you can't afford to use it?

    Then their sh%t out of luck, send the kid away to live with someone else, and get help.

    Get help? That is socialism isn't it?

    If the problem is declining birth rates, then yes it will solve said problem.

    You haven't properly explained by declining birth rates are actually a problem yet.

    but then you are just a worker like high voltage technician or nurse, paramedic not a white collar (on cash register tho)

    You are in hospital and the guy who is going to perform brain surgery tells you he never went to medical school... the fees were too high, so he did his degree part time on the internet from a university in the Cayman Islands... nighty night... Rolling Eyes
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  AlfaT8 on Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:25 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:but then you are just a worker like high voltage technician or  nurse, paramedic not a white collar (on cash register tho) unshaven unshaven unshaven

    Let me rephrase that.
    Recent business news are showing that businesses are beginning to drop their College requirements for high paying jobs.

    The most recent report was about the need for new aircraft technicians, which according to my old man who was a former pilot, was a very high payed job.

    Also nurses and High Voltage technician are also both well payed, my cousin's a nurse and she expanded her house.
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  AlfaT8 on Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:49 pm

    GarryB wrote:The Australian government decided that abo parents were not capable of bringing up australian children because they are dumb natives and don't know what civilised is... they thought a white family upbringing would fix all the problems in the abo community... it made things much worse.

    People who no longer saw themselves as abo were rejected by whites because they were clearly abo, and they rejected abos themselves because they felt no connection to them and were different... but not different enough to be treated as whites.

    The Aussies are fools then.

    So rape gangs or seditives and artificial insemination?

    Yea, let's go with the absolute extremes so you could make your case.

    The birth rates continuing to drop all over the West and parts of the East, someone will have to make a Decision, and women will have to make babies.
    That's what's gonna happen, regardless of how anyone feels.

    Why would he want to do such a thing?

    Why not.

    A degree does not get you a job... it gets you the interview.

    Student teachers will take most of their working careers to pay off their loans if they pay them off at the standard rate... it is just lots of income for someone.

    If the Degree cannot guaranty you a well payed job, then it is worthless and an outright scam, unless it's an "Arts" degree, then it's just worthless.

    They made the loan so they gotta pay it off.

    Who is going to give them a loan? What is their collateral?

    They have a student debt and no house... a mortgage on a house is just more debt...

    The Bank, the house that they built with said loan.

    Then they better have good jobs,... yes, such is life for those who want a house.

    What reason do people get Parkinsons or Altziemers?

    Old people have falls... So the cost of their care is going to burn up the value of the family home, so that wont pay off any student loans let alone contribute to any houses for the children...

    Old age mostly.

    Old people also have assets and a pension, not sure what you mean by "the value of the family home?

    Your jobs are suppose to pay off the loans, if you don't want them around send them to an old folks home.

    If you want a job it will either require work experience or qualifications... and you can't get experience without qualifications... sometimes even that is not enough... you need qualifications AND experience...

    Then go get them, without breaking the bank, Trade schools offer both and communities colleges should give you a good qualifications so you can get some good experience and go up from there.

    Get help? That is socialism isn't it?

    No, Social programs and Socialism aren't remotely the same, how many times does Denmark need to tell Bernie Sanders this.

    Free healthcare and free education mean the costs are eliminated and the standard of living is greatly improved... saw a video of a lady in an accident in the US and she pleaded with the people not to call an ambulance because she could not afford it... the bone was sticking out of her leg but she didn't want an ambulance... WTF is the point of having a super health system if you can't afford to use it?

    Free health care is very useful, but it won't cover everything.

    As for Free education, no clue, but putting these schools on the government tiet may not end well, Colleges already have odd departments and i don't think the schools will want to become government controlled.

    Where i live, schools are very cheap, but we still pay.
    Universities are the exception, But they're around the same price as community college in the States.

    Honestly, i think the IRS should do some deep investigation in those high priced universities, because the tax payer wants to know where their money is going.

    You haven't properly explained by declining birth rates are actually a problem yet.

    A Nation is it's people and as it's people disappear so shall the nation.
    This is something the Eurotards will have to learn the hard way.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:42 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    In Europe there is something like free studies you know  lol1  lol1  lol1  ok you can pay like 500 € per year or so for admin costs.

    In the 1980s we had that... $250 tuition fees and study what you like except medicine and dentistry of course...
    Now a local is expected to pay between 6 and 8 thousand dollars a year in fees for any degree... it is only a matter of time before it hits European countries too...

    possible but unlikely. Since 70 years in Europe is the same shit. Not all but many of public universities are free or some token money for locals. For EU but not local students you have fees too.

    In Ireland contribution fee (capped to 3k euros year).
    GDP PPP 80k $. Jobless rate: 6.1 %

    GDP PPP 53k$ Jobless rate: 3,9%


    Holland you have list below:
    https://www.mastersportal.com/articles/341/studying-in-the-netherlands-tuition-fees-and-funding.html

    Delft University of Technology - average tuition fees 2,000 EUR/year

    why so low? to get brain drain of course. Guess what is their GDP / per capita. BTW their population grows no do well ;-)




    A degree does not get you a job... it gets you the interview.
    Neither. Your skills do.



    Student teachers will take most of their working careers to pay off their loans if they pay them off at the standard rate... it is just lots of income for someone.
    Then how they can choose such job if they know they wond be able to pay back their debts? I hope they wont teach math. Of course they HAVE to take EXPENSIVE loans to get LOW PAID jobs? Im sure they have to.



    Either way, in the scenario that you presented, we are dealing with an already married couple, the 2 of them could make a loan.
    Who is going to give them a loan? What is their collateral?

    of course how you can live when you're 24 without a house in suburbs, swimming pool, 2 cars (one for wifey one for you) , small airplane or chopper is optional but nice to have?
    Only in sch conditions you can have a child!



    They have a student debt and no house... a mortgage on a house is just more debt...
    and you dotn have parents, family?!



    Then hope that the parent payed of most of their debts, you don't get crippled for no reason.
    Old people have falls... So the cost of their care is going to burn up the value of the family home, so that wont pay off any student loans let alone contribute to any houses for the children...

    in some countries there is a thing called life insurance...in most cases this is obligatory to take it where I live. So you're covered.



    Don't get into that level of student debt to begin with.

    If you want a job it will either require work experience or qualifications... and you can't get experience without qualifications... sometimes even that is not enough... you need qualifications AND experience...

    is there any problem to start while studying? Suspect Suspect Suspect



    Then their sh%t out of luck, send the kid away to live with someone else, and get help.
    Get help? That is socialism isn't it?

    There are odl fashioned thingys in western copro corpoworld called family. . What I've observed i my life kids going to university were either living with parents (if cash was tight) or in dorms or (if you're too rich for dorm) then you rent a room. OR flat with couple of friends. Thsi works with or without socialism. This works with or without family tho.




    If the problem is declining birth rates, then yes it will solve said problem.
    You haven't properly explained by declining birth rates are actually a problem yet.


    That's simple you're dying out as effect your economy starts crumbling your state is in decline. Pace depends on decline rate.




    but then you are just a worker like high voltage technician or  nurse, paramedic not a white collar (on cash register tho)

    You are in hospital and the guy who is going to perform brain surgery tells you he never went to medical school... the fees were too high, so he did his degree part time on the internet from a university in the Cayman Islands... nighty night...  Rolling Eyes

    Well, not sure how it is solved in NZ but here in Europe brain surgery is done by highly specialized surgeons not nurses. affraid affraid affraid

    But if you have no money to study you either have to get merit scholarship or you educate within your means as nurse or technician. Does every kind in NZ need to be a doctor? there are no technicians or nurses? Suspect Suspect Suspect


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