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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:28 am

    Either way, the fertility rates across the developed 1st world have been dropping for some time now, measures need to be taken.
    That's exactly what I said. Multi level support programme including heavy duty PR campaign.


    AlfaT8 wrote: Could be an attitude motivated by financial issue.
    no it wasnt.


    Is this the "Whataboutism" i have been hearing about recently.
    no idea what whataboutism is but my point was they earn big bucks , More, much more than their hubbies. And have kids, much more than most of so called "dependent" women.



    Also that YT exec is flippin insane, having a kid in her 40's is very dangerous.
    why? besides lower fertility of course, on both sides. Statistically of course.



    AlfaT8 wrote:
    It's gonna take a decade or two to get a house.

    there is a magical thing called mortgage loan ... if you work not as top specialist or manager in so called developed world buying a house in 10 years?! damn this must be cheap...
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:36 am

    AlfaT8 wrote:.....
    Also that YT exec is flippin insane, having a kid in her 40's is very dangerous.

    I missed this nugget of BS first time.

    So you are saying that my own mother is insane as well for giving birth in her 40's?

    Since by your own admission you still didn't even finish highschool maybe you should avoid adult topics for a little while more?
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:23 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Either way, the fertility rates across the developed 1st world have been dropping for some time now, measures need to be taken.
    That's exactly what I said. Multi level support programme including heavy duty PR campaign.

    As far as i can see this path is worth taking, but will take a long time and doesn't guarantee results.
    While putting women in a position where they have to make babies will most certainly give results.

    AlfaT8 wrote: Could be an attitude motivated by financial issue.
    no it wasnt.

    Really, every time i hear someone say they don't want kids, they all put emphasis on the financial issue.
    Must be a culture thing.

    Is this the "Whataboutism" i have been hearing about recently.
    no idea what whataboutism is but my point was they earn big bucks ,  More, much more than their hubbies. And have kids, much more than most of so called "dependent" women.

    Google it.
    They are irrelevant for they are the exceptions not the norm.
    As the statistics have shown.

    Also that YT exec is flippin insane, having a kid in her 40's is very dangerous.
    why? besides lower fertility of course, on both sides. Statistically of course.

    Risk of child having down syndrome or some other birth defect, go up after 30 more so after 40.
    Also it's a fairly expensive affair IVF, hormone treatments,ect.

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    It's gonna take a decade or two to get a house.

    there is a magical thing called mortgage loan ... if you work not as top specialist or manager in so called developed world buying a house in 10 years?! damn this must be cheap...
    Not really a money issue, but the government only gives out land on a waiting list and that will take a decade or so, thanks to migration.
    There's also buying private property, but they are way more expensive, and to put the Cherry on top of the cake, the banks don't give out loans to single people, well off or married people only, mostly because the banks want to make their money back.
    And my family already mortgaged what we have and that's just to pay off debt.


    Last edited by AlfaT8 on Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:32 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:.....
    Also that YT exec is flippin insane, having a kid in her 40's is very dangerous.

    I missed this nugget of BS first time.

    So you are saying that my own mother is insane as well for giving birth in her 40's?

    Since by your own admission you still didn't even finish highschool maybe you should avoid adult topics for a little while more?

    Yes, because over 40 the risk to the mother and the child are pretty high.

    Hahaha..... you think i am in the States, hell no.

    Been working for a decade now, just going to get some degrees i need.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:29 am

    [quote="AlfaT8"]

    Yes, because over 40 the risk to the mother and the child are pretty high.
    /quote]

    like what?
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:42 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Either way, the fertility rates across the developed 1st world have been dropping for some time now, measures need to be taken.
    That's exactly what I said. Multi level support programme including heavy duty PR campaign.

    As far as i can see this path is worth taking, but will take a long time and doesn't guarantee results.

    Nothing guarantees anything in real life. This however has brought results in Russia, France, UK or Sweden. Without PR yet, I mean affecting attitude towards s having children. More medial support to families is needed too.


    While putting women in a position where they have to make babies will most certainly give results.

    and is there ny country to make shift back to force women to be dependent?! Any examples? ok Afghanistan doesn't count. Let's focus on Russia.




    Really, every time i hear someone say they don't want kids, they all put emphasis on the financial issue.

    culture thing is more about creating of stable relationships. Money and stability in economy not being poor and without place to live is also important. What is very important in hierarchy of needs. look As for rest does that image ring the bell? or Russian in 90's .. Russia wa s loosing population like 1,000,000 per year... now things changed. Surprisingly  Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil  because of more stability and faith in future.







    They are irrelevant for they are the exceptions not the norm.
    As the statistics have shown.

    the same refers to your examples of women dependent on men...


    Risk of child having down syndrome or some other birth defect, go up after 30 more so after 40.
    Also it's a fairly expensive affair IVF, hormone treatments,ect.

    whataboutism you call it right? true is drops with age but you still can have kids ? Risk of Down syndrome is higher too (but after 40 not 30 Very Happy but you have stable financially and emotionally for kids. Not favelas or druggy commune.
    a) not all need it (perhaps 45+ is must) - but yes fertility drops with age, Down Syndrome ?Risk is higher so what they should not give births or what?
    b) you want of not the fact is women (and men alike) are having more kids when they get older


    c) IVF costs money but this is only money right? (check state support AFAIK in Russia was discussion already about it not sure outcome yet tho Smile From ethical reasons IVF to me has to be unde rone condition - no frozen embryos/ no killing embryos. All you get all you use. Or let others use...there are many couples who want kids but cannot have....

    d) Russia definitely has to fight abortion. Still 600 children are bieng killed each year!!! let them use contraceptives or botn more 9perhaps ony for adoption ) you can have not only better ethically but also 100-200k kids mor each year.


    BTW if you want to buy a c-class car (say 30 k euro) or a house (~300,000) euro or go for nice vacations (family like 1k per person)  you dont say 3k for IVF is expensive right?
    We are talking  about EU.
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    Hole

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Hole on Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:34 pm

    Abortions are remains of the SU. They were free of charge, therefore most women didn´t care.
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:07 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:Nothing guarantees anything in real life. This however has brought results in Russia, France, UK or Sweden. Without PR yet, I mean affecting attitude towards s having children. More medial support to families is needed too.

    France is F'ed, they opened the gates and now the foreigners are propping up their birth rates, before that the City of Amor was trying to live up to it's name, now cat-calling and wolf-whistling are a punishable offense.  lol1
    The UK even with the help from migrants they're expected to weaken, and the Brits are currently a minority in their own capital.
    Sweden's in an even worst situation than France, even civil war is expected.
    Russia's spike was thanks to the recovery.

    While putting women in a position where they have to make babies will most certainly give results.

    and is there ny country to make shift back to force women to be dependent?! Any examples? ok Afghanistan doesn't count. Let's focus on Russia.

    Sure, when it works, it doesn't count apparently.
    Put a mouse in a corridor with only one exit and they'll more than likely take that path.

    Really, every time i hear someone say they don't want kids, they all put emphasis on the financial issue.

    culture thing is more about creating of stable relationships. Money and stability in economy not being poor and without place to live is also important. What is very important in hierarchy of needs. look As for rest does that image ring the bell? or Russian in 90's .. Russia wa s loosing population like 1,000,000 per year... now things changed. Surprisingly  Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil  because of more stability and faith in future.

    Yes and now that "change" has worn out, births are currently Stagnant and are projected to fall.
    And the 90's recovery ain't gonna happen again, now what?


    They are irrelevant for they are the exceptions not the norm.
    As the statistics have shown.

    the same refers to your examples of women dependent on men...

    Most of Africa, most of the middle-east except Turkey and Iran (numbers for turkey are all over the place?).

    From what i can see, the more civilized a countries becomes the lower the Births, i hope, i am wrong.  Suspect
    So this is where the arguments against egalitarianism is coming from.

    Papua New Guinea is an interesting case, so is the Philippines, although abortion is illegal and marriage is pretty strict.
    And Bolivia.

    Risk of child having down syndrome or some other birth defect, go up after 30 more so after 40.
    Also it's a fairly expensive affair IVF, hormone treatments,ect.

    whataboutism you call it right? true is drops with age but you still can have kids ? Risk of Down syndrome is higher too (but after 40 not 30 Very Happy but you have stable financially and emotionally for kids. Not favelas or druggy commune.
    a) not all need it (perhaps 45+ is must) - but yes fertility drops with age, Down Syndrome ?Risk is higher so what they should not give births or what?
    b) you want of not the fact is women (and men alike) are having more kids when they get older


    c) IVF costs money but this is only money right? (check state support AFAIK in Russia was discussion already about it not sure outcome yet tho Smile From ethical reasons IVF to me has to be unde rone condition - no frozen embryos/ no killing embryos. All you get all you use. Or let others use...there are many couples who want kids but cannot have....

    d) Russia definitely has to fight abortion. Still 600 children are bieng killed each year!!! let them use contraceptives or botn more 9perhaps ony for adoption ) you can have not only better ethically but also 100-200k kids mor each year.


    BTW if you want to buy a c-class car (say 30 k euro) or a house (~300,000) euro or go for nice vacations (family like 1k per person)  you dont say 3k for IVF is expensive right?
    We are talking  about EU.

    a) Sure go ahead role the dice, it's their call, there are also people who play Russian Roulette for fun.
    b) Sure because women don't need no man and focus on their careers, and the risks keep going up and birth rates keep going down.
    c) I barely understand what you wrote, but from what i can make out, the state will subsidize this?
    d) Yea, the abortion thing really surprised me, i thought Putin would have smashed that industry to dust by now.

    IVF, hormone treatments, ect. how much will that add up.
    Car loans and Home loans are one thing, but would the Banks give you a loan for this if there is a risk that you wont be able to pay the Bank back once the kid is born, sounds like you need to be well-off to begin with for them to clear the loan.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:20 pm

    Hole wrote:Abortions are remains of the SU. They were free of charge, therefore most women didn´t care.

    After Stalin AFAIK... But here you cannot force anything. Newton laws of motion teaches us: actuon-reaction. Ony long, expensive PR campaign (movier, press, media, govt + social cover ) can bring results.
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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:46 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    The UK even with the help from migrants they're expected to weaken, and the Brits are currently a minority in their own capital.
    Sweden's in an even worst situation than France, even civil war is expected.


    well those rumors about civil war is  for years and nothing happens. Not immigrants are problem but their integration. And fucked up policy/ideology but deep governments.




    Put a mouse in a corridor with only one exit and they'll more than likely take that path.



    so you want to degenerate Russia to level of Afghanistan?! r=to make a hell for women? and make children hated not loved cherished and long-awaited? and ekhm I am glad Russia will never does it  



    Yes and now that "change" has worn out, births are currently Stagnant and are projected to fall.
    And the 90's recovery ain't gonna happen again, now what?

    you dont look at macroeconomic and demographical situation right?




    From what i can see, the more civilized a countries becomes the lower the Births, i hope, i am wrong.  Suspect
    So this is where the arguments against egalitarianism is coming from.


    In Japan is not really egalitarian right? look at their fertility rate? or compare Greece/Italy which are way less egalitarian than UK or Scandinavia.  This is not about money women earn but about freestyle you are promoting + social support. I just cannot understand why men cannot stay and home an take care of kids when a woman earns a lot?! Or they can both work and take care of kids? WFT where's the problem?




    a) Sure go ahead role the dice, it's their call, there are also people who play Russian Roulette for fun.


    Why women shall decide? dotn you know that having a child requires a pair / marriage? It is nto about fun. sometimes you dont meet your spouse when you 12 years old and you dont start sex before 14.

    b) Sure because women don't need no man and focus on their careers, and the risks keep going up and birth rates keep going down.

    No they dont.  show me that uneducated teenagers in UK have same birth rate as educated women which are successful in careers and in stable relationships? and what numbers say?




    IVF, hormone treatments, ect. how much will that add up.
    saving peoples lives how much it  will add up? dont you understand that many people want to have kids but cannot due to environmental problems? come to EU an live here you'll see.




    Car loans and Home loans are one thing, but would the Banks give you a loan for this if there is a risk that you wont be able to pay the Bank back once the kid is born, sounds like you need to be well-off to begin with for them to clear the loan.
    No it it the same thing you can afford car or vacations you can afford kids.  Of course social support helps a lot . But if you dont want to have kids you wont have.

    In most of EU countries in EU IVF is around 3k euro. This is all you spend.
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  AlfaT8 on Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:15 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:
    The UK even with the help from migrants they're expected to weaken, and the Brits are currently a minority in their own capital.
    Sweden's in an even worst situation than France, even civil war is expected.

    well those rumors about civil war is  for years and nothing happens. Not immigrants are problem but their integration. And fucked up policy/ideology but deep governments.

    Years?, you mean the last few in particular.
    Sure, it's not the migrants it's everything else other than the migrants, heard it all before.

    Put a mouse in a corridor with only one exit and they'll more than likely take that path

    so you want to degenerate Russia to level of Afghanistan?! r=to make a hell for women? and make children hated not loved cherished and long-awaited? and ekhm I am glad Russia will never does it.

    Well their method shows results.
    But we are not at such a low level where that will be required,...... yet.
    Do the the Draft put in the loopholes and see births go up.

    Yes and now that "change" has worn out, births are currently Stagnant and are projected to fall.
    And the 90's recovery ain't gonna happen again, now what?

    you dont look at macroeconomic and demographical situation right?

    No, i am looking at the birth rates, and i see stagnation, granted a few more years are needed to confirm.
    And Demographically a population decline looks likely.

    From what i can see, the more civilized a countries becomes the lower the Births, i hope, i am wrong.  Suspect
    So this is where the arguments against egalitarianism is coming from

    In Japan is not really egalitarian right? look at their fertility rate? or compare Greece/Italy which are way less egalitarian than UK or Scandinavia.  This is not about money women earn but about freestyle you are promoting + social support. I just cannot understand why men cannot stay and home an take care of kids when a woman earns a lot?! Or they can both work and take care of kids? WFT where's the problem?

    I don't think conservatism is anti-egalitarian, strangely their births completely collapsed, after the 1946 constitution.
    Wiki also mentions there's even a debate going on about women education and the decline in birth.
    Too close to call IMO, since it's right after the war, so the war itself could still be blamed.

    Uhm, the Greek birth rate went down in 1967, then stabilized in the 70s, but completely collapsed in the early 80s, and around this time the 1983 new family law was passed, which provided for gender equality in marriage, and abolished dowry and provided for equal rights for "illegitimate" children. Adultery was also decriminalized in 1983. The new family law provided for civil marriage and liberalized the divorce laws.

    In Italy the Italian births completely collapsed in the 70s around that time, Divorce in Italy was legalized in 1970, Adultery was decriminalized in 1969, Law No. 151/1975 provided for gender equality within marriage, abolishing the legal dominance of the husband in 1975.

    Shocked  Shocked ........ god i hope i am wrong.

    a) Sure go ahead role the dice, it's their call, there are also people who play Russian Roulette for fun.

    Why women shall decide? dotn you know that having a child requires a pair / marriage? It is nto about fun. sometimes you dont meet your spouse when you 12 years old and you dont start sex before 14.

    No, but they should meet them by 22 and 24, unless someone is focusing on their career.  Wink

    b) Sure because women don't need no man and focus on their careers, and the risks keep going up and birth rates keep going down.

    No they dont.  show me that uneducated teenagers in UK have same birth rate as educated women which are successful in careers and in stable relationships? and what numbers say?

    Not in the UK, but most in the 3rd world are uneducated and they show promise.
    In the UK it's less births and more abortions in that age.
    The older, the riskier and the lower the births, this is the trend we are seeing.
    What next, is 50 and 60 gonna be the new 30 and 40?

    IVF, hormone treatments, ect. how much will that add up.
    saving peoples lives how much it  will add up? dont you understand that many people want to have kids but cannot due to environmental problems? come to EU an live here you'll see.

    Looking at the charts, not many enough.

    Car loans and Home loans are one thing, but would the Banks give you a loan for this if there is a risk that you wont be able to pay the Bank back once the kid is born, sounds like you need to be well-off to begin with for them to clear the loan.

    No it it the same thing you can afford car or vacations you can afford kids.  Of course social support helps a lot . But if you dont want to have kids you wont have.

    In most of EU countries in EU IVF is around 3k euro. This is all you spend.  

    Quite convenient then, let's hope they remember to preserve there eggs before 30.[/quote]
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:56 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    well those rumors about civil war is  for years and nothing happens. Not immigrants are problem but their integration. And fucked up policy/ideology but deep governments.

    Agreed, policy of globalist elites nto immigration to blame.  Yes yes yes same people who propagating atomization of society, homo marriages, circular economy especially where it makes no sense or forced. And invented eugenics too Smile




    so you want to degenerate Russia to level of Afghanistan?! r=to make a hell for women? and make children hated not loved cherished and long-awaited? and ekhm I am glad Russia will never does it.

    Well their method shows results.
    But we are not at such a low level where that will be required,...... yet.
    Do the the Draft put in the loopholes and see births go up.
    [/quote]

    not better do as Isrelis do?

    Fertility rate 3.13 where Jews and Muslims are on pair actually. Can you say that Israeli women are uneducated, poor or not servicn in army?  it is all about attitude + wise social support. Nothing else.




    No, i am looking at the birth rates, and i see stagnation, granted a few more years are needed to confirm.
    And Demographically a population decline looks likely.


    and you know that number of kids in 90' dropped significantly oopsi now those kids are 20-30 yo and since there is less of them number biths on statistical women (more granmas less youngsterz) is decreasing.
    Population is increasing just birth rate - death rate will be couple of years negative.





    In Japan is not really egalitarian right? look at their fertility rate? or compare Greece/Italy which are way less egalitarian than UK or Scandinavia.  This is not about money women earn but about freestyle you are promoting + social support. I just cannot understand why men cannot stay and home an take care of kids when a woman earns a lot?! Or they can both work and take care of kids? WFT where's the problem?

    I don't think conservatism is anti-egalitarian, strangely their births completely collapsed, after the 1946 constitution.

    [/quote]

    So now constitution to blame? what lack of army and fleet or what precisely?  



    Uhm, the Greek birth rate went down in 1967, +
    In Italy the Italian births completely collapsed in the 70s around that time, Divorce in Italy was legalized in 1970, Adultery was decriminalized in 1969, Law No. 151/1975 provided for gender equality within marriage, abolishing the legal dominance of the husband in 1975.

    That's great that women are not oppressed as in wahabit countries. People should want to have kids not to be forced to. But to you this is the only way to have kids?
    You know in socialist countries was pretty positive demographics and no oppression of women (dont know about Romania tho/0 On my block families with 2 kids were minority, 3-4 was medium and 5-7 "optimists" Smile







    No, but they should meet them by 22 and 24, unless someone is focusing on their career.  Wink

    bon courage then  looking for your wife then Razz Razz Razz



    Not in the UK, but most in the 3rd world are uneducated and they show promise.
    promise of what? talib Afghanistan? no thanks I wouldn't like my daughters live in such society. Neither think any normal country decided on such idiocy and cruelty.




    IVF, hormone treatments, ect. how much will that add up.
    saving peoples lives how much it  will add up? dont you understand that many people want to have kids but cannot due to environmental problems? come to EU an live here you'll see.

    Looking at the charts, not many enough.
    [/quote]



    even if 10 for the whorl country it is worth. It tells other people look there is hope is anything gets worse. Dont you wanna  help people to have kids because this makes their life to have sense? to have happy families and loved kids?  or just breed them like cattle?! kind of eugenics with oppressed women, men hating their jobs and many street who have neither health services nor education (vide Afghanistan)?!





    The older, the riskier and the lower the births, this is the trend we are seeing.
    What next, is 50 and 60 gonna be the new 30 and 40?
    +
    Quite convenient then, let's hope they remember to preserve there eggs before 30.

    You see a difference between 50yo and 30 yo or not? I mean in terms of biological clock? What you saying here is not based on facts I am afraid. Only your imagination. Show me that 30 yo cannot have kids on their own? with data
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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Hole on Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:15 pm

    The birth rate in Israel is high because of right-wing settlers. They are extremists. And they don´t care about womens rights.
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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:13 pm

    Hole wrote:The birth rate in Israel is high because of right-wing settlers. They are extremists. And they don´t care about womens rights.
    Do you have any numbers to support this thesis?
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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Hole on Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:21 pm

    Some docs i´ve seen over the years. This settlers are a nasty bunch. Just two things to do: kill palestinians and reproduce. All expenses Paid for by the government (= Amiland and EU [Germany]).
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  AlfaT8 on Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:13 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    well those rumors about civil war is  for years and nothing happens. Not immigrants are problem but their integration. And fucked up policy/ideology but deep governments.
    Years?, you mean the last few in particular.
    Sure, it's not the migrants it's everything else other than the migrants, heard it all before.
    Agreed, policy of globalist elites nto immigration to blame.  Yes yes yes same people who propagating atomization of society, homo marriages, circular economy especially where it makes no sense or forced. And invented eugenics too Smile

    Whateve, i am just gonna stay the hell away from Eurostan.


    so you want to degenerate Russia to level of Afghanistan?! r=to make a hell for women? and make children hated not loved cherished and long-awaited? and ekhm I am glad Russia will never does it.
    Well their method shows results.
    But we are not at such a low level where that will be required,...... yet.
    Do the the Draft put in the loopholes and see births go up.

    not better do as Isrelis do?

    Fertility rate 3.13 where Jews and Muslims are on pair actually. Can you say that Israeli women are uneducated, poor or not servicn in army?  it is all about attitude + wise social support. Nothing else.

    Both you and i want the Israeli model, but we are not seeing the same thing, in my view it is their Draft that keeps their births in line, while in yours it is attitude and social support.

    Israel is an odd duck, they seem to have adopted much of the equal rights thing, but still manages to keep their births up, while others show a complete collapse in births when doing so.
    After looking into it, the only other factor i can see is the Rabbinical Court, which only approved marriages between Jews in Israel conducted in accordance with the Orthodox interpretation of halakha.
    And the only way a divorce could happen is if the Husband gives consent (aka: the Get) , although the woman could bring up a case in the Rabbinical Court, but this is very rare.
    They also have a marriage contract, which includes an optional but "Binding" Prenuptial Agreement, in which they outline how things will be split in the event of the marriage is dissolved

    This very much reminds me of the Sharia councils (courts) in Britain, although in that case the British law has no say.

    IMO, it is still the Draft that is contributing to this rise, but these Religious institutions also play a part.

    No, i am looking at the birth rates, and i see stagnation, granted a few more years are needed to confirm.
    And Demographically a population decline looks likely.

    and you know that number of kids in 90' dropped significantly oopsi now those kids are 20-30 yo and since there is less of them number biths on statistical women (more granmas less youngsterz) is decreasing.
    Population is increasing just birth rate - death rate will be couple of years negative.

    Let's hope that's the case

    I don't think conservatism is anti-egalitarian, strangely their births completely collapsed, after the 1946 constitution

    So now constitution to blame? what lack of army and fleet or what precisely?

    Womens rights (egalitarian policies), in that constitution.

    Uhm, the Greek birth rate went down in 1967, +
    In Italy the Italian births completely collapsed in the 70s around that time, Divorce in Italy was legalized in 1970, Adultery was decriminalized in 1969, Law No. 151/1975 provided for gender equality within marriage, abolishing the legal dominance of the husband in 1975.

    That's great that women are not oppressed as in wahabit countries. People should want to have kids not to be forced to. But to you this is the only way to have kids?
    You know in socialist countries was pretty positive demographics and no oppression of women (dont know about Romania tho/0 On my block families with 2 kids were minority, 3-4 was medium and 5-7 "optimists" Smile

    If you want to raise births, then yes, putting some pressure as well as some benefits will do the job (aka: the Stick and the Carrot).
    Which Socialist countries?
    Romania's births completely collapsed in the 90's and fell a bit further, because of the 2008 financial crisis, that said, they've been on the decline since at least the 70s,... odd?
    Found it, it was the Pro-natalist policy in the 60s, it had caused a sharp increase in births, but things went very wrong afterwards, can't find any info on how they implemented their Natalist policy

    No, but they should meet them by 22 and 24, unless someone is focusing on their career.  Wink

    bon courage then  looking for your wife then Razz Razz Razz

    Nope, financial realities, i think i already described them. ;-P

    Not in the UK, but most in the 3rd world are uneducated and they show promise.

    promise of what? talib Afghanistan? no thanks I wouldn't like my daughters live in such society. Neither think any normal country decided on such idiocy and cruelty.

    If birth rates continue to drop, then your daughter or perhaps grand-daughter, isn't gonna have much of a choice.

    Looking at the charts, not many enough.

    even if 10 for the whorl country it is worth. It tells other people look there is hope is anything gets worse. Dont you wanna  help people to have kids because this makes their life to have sense? to have happy families and loved kids?  or just breed them like cattle?! kind of eugenics with oppressed women, men hating their jobs and many street who have neither health services nor education (vide Afghanistan)?!

    That's what we are trying to avoid.
    I ain't advocating the Afghan model, more like the Israeli model, but we have different views on that.
    In Russia's case they already placed the benefits (the Carrot) now all they need is to put the Draft (the Stick), and see those numbers go up.
    How high those numbers go depends on the policy, if all go's well, Russia will have a very precise method to control their Demographics.

    The older, the riskier and the lower the births, this is the trend we are seeing.
    What next, is 50 and 60 gonna be the new 30 and 40?
    +
    Quite convenient then, let's hope they remember to preserve there eggs before 30.

    You see a difference between 50yo and 30 yo or not? I mean in terms of biological clock? What you saying here is not based on facts I am afraid. Only your imagination. Show me that 30 yo cannot have kids on their own? with data

    It's the trend of the older people having the kids and how this trend, if continued will worsen, the age will keep going up and the births will keep dropping.
    Looks like Downies isn't much of an issue, but miscarriages are the real terror (20% in their 30s and 50% in their 40s  Shocked )
    https://health.howstuffworks.com/pregnancy-and-parenting/pregnancy/issues/pregnancy-at-different-ages-20s-30s-and-40s.htm
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:00 am

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    Agreed, policy of globalist elites nto immigration to blame.  Yes yes yes same people who propagating atomization of society, homo marriages, circular economy especially where it makes no sense or forced. And invented eugenics too Smile

    Whateve, i am just gonna stay the hell away from Eurostan.
    [/quote]


    meh , not disintegrate EU but change main ideology. Look at Austria, Poland, Hungary... there is still hope



    Israel is an odd duck, they seem to have adopted much of the equal rights thing, but still manages to keep their births up, while others show a complete collapse in births when doing so. /quote]
    not sure about now but Israel was pretty socially oriented country... everywhere where is both medial and financial support for families there is growth.





    No, i am looking at the birth rates, and i see stagnation, granted a few more years are needed to confirm.
    And Demographically a population decline looks likely.
    and you know that number of kids in 90' dropped significantly oopsi now those kids are 20-30 yo and since there is less of them number biths on statistical women (more granmas less youngsterz) is decreasing.
    Population is increasing just birth rate - death rate will be couple of years negative.

    Let's hope that's the case

    if not you let more immigration and will reverse negative trend anyway. But looking at Russian leadership there will be fairly strong push to keeping fertility as high as possible.





    You see a difference between 50yo and 30 yo or not? I mean in terms of biological clock? What you saying here is not based on facts I am afraid. Only your imagination. Show me that 30 yo cannot have kids on their own? with data

    It's the trend of the older people having the kids and how this trend, if continued will worsen, the age will keep going up and the births will keep dropping.
    Looks like Downies isn't much of an issue, but miscarriages are the real terror (20% in their 30s and 50% in their 40s  Shocked )

    Yes still you can read many celebrities have kids after 40. You forget there is genetic engineering and resulting precision medicine. Is lat motherhood good? if people are to be only bread like animals not. If you meant of emotional development of kids perhaps better. Much better.

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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  AlfaT8 on Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:57 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:meh , not disintegrate  EU but change main ideology. Look at Austria, Poland, Hungary... there is still hope

    I said Eurostan, not Eastern-Europe.  Wink

    Israel is an odd duck, they seem to have adopted much of the equal rights thing, but still manages to keep their births up, while others show a complete collapse in births when doing so.
    not sure about now but Israel was pretty socially oriented country... everywhere where is both medial and financial support for families there is growth.

    I looked at the map, and the only places that show any form of growth was France and Ireland, France's situation looks bleak with the recent clampdown on even cat-calling and wolf-whistling and Ireland just went full-retard with their Abortion vote, so they're screwed as well.

    Overall, i don't see this throwing money at women thing yielding any real results.

    Let's hope that's the case

    if not you let more immigration and will reverse negative trend anyway. But looking at Russian leadership there will be  fairly strong push to keeping fertility as high as possible

    Yes, and eventually get replaced, like the British will in 2050.
    Thank Christ for that, Russian leadership still believe in their people, unlike many Western countries.

    You see a difference between 50yo and 30 yo or not? I mean in terms of biological clock? What you saying here is not based on facts I am afraid. Only your imagination. Show me that 30 yo cannot have kids on their own? with data

    It's the trend of the older people having the kids and how this trend, if continued will worsen, the age will keep going up and the births will keep dropping.
    Looks like Downies isn't much of an issue, but miscarriages are the real terror (20% in their 30s and 50% in their 40s  Shocked )

    Yes still you can read many celebrities have kids after 40.  You forget there is genetic engineering and resulting precision medicine. Is lat motherhood good? if people are to be  only bread like animals not. If you meant of emotional development of kids perhaps better. Much better.

    And those celebrities aren't even making a dent in the grander stage.
    Dude, were not able to do that yet, and medical progress in general is incredibly slow.
    Ask the mothers, who commit in their 30s and 40s.
    We are not at that stage yet, heck we'll be long dead before that becomes a necessity, unless sh%t really hits the fan, Mad Max style
    Pushing a Draft on them, isn't "breeding them" they'll still get to be parents just at a younger age.
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    flamming_python

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  flamming_python on Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:21 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:Israel is an odd duck, they seem to have adopted much of the equal rights thing, but still manages to keep their births up, while others show a complete collapse in births when doing so.
    After looking into it, the only other factor i can see is the Rabbinical Court, which only approved marriages between Jews in Israel conducted in accordance with the Orthodox interpretation of halakha.
    And the only way a divorce could happen is if the Husband gives consent (aka: the Get) , although the woman could bring up a case in the Rabbinical Court, but this is very rare.
    They also have a marriage contract, which includes an optional but "Binding" Prenuptial Agreement, in which they outline how things will be split in the event of the marriage is dissolved

    That's from:

    a). Their large Orthodox population, whose values and ways of life are fairly similar to that of conservative religious Muslims if not even more stringent.
    b). Their large population of settlers in the West Bank and so on, who are also religious and live a traditional lifestyle not too far removed from say the Amish in the US, albiet with more modern comforts. Maybe a little how Americans lived on the frontier and mid-West.
    c). Their own religious Muslims

    Some of these people might have adopted the equal rights thing too, particularly from among group b, but they still life their life in a way at odds to it so you get the sort of family preferences that you get.

    But if you take their actual cosmopolitan population in Tel-Aviv, Haifa or indeed in any town in Israel proper, they are very similar in values and lifestyle to what you'll see among any urban affluent population, and their fertility rates and increasing preference for having kids later in life will reflect that.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:02 pm

    flamming_python wrote:But if you take their actual cosmopolitan population in Tel-Aviv, Haifa or indeed in any town in Israel proper, they are very similar in values and lifestyle to what you'll see among any urban affluent population, and their fertility rates and increasing preference for having kids later in life will reflect that.

    "late kids" ? As long as this keeps demographics positive who cares? lol1 lol1 lol1 "late kids" are usually better off in terms of emotional stability and money for development.
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  AlfaT8 on Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:41 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:But if you take their actual cosmopolitan population in Tel-Aviv, Haifa or indeed in any town in Israel proper, they are very similar in values and lifestyle to what you'll see among any urban affluent population, and their fertility rates and increasing preference for having kids later in life will reflect that.

    "late kids" ?    As long as this keeps demographics positive who cares?  lol1 lol1 lol1  "late kids" are  usually better off in terms of emotional stability and money for development.

    I actual forgot about this thread.
    Anyway, late kids aren't gonna be positive for demographics, unless it's "late" for the man, while the woman is much younger.

    As for the Orthodox population, i keep hearing about them, but i got no solid numbers.
    I could only conclude that the Rabbinical Courts are having a similar effect to the Sharia courts.
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    Walther von Oldenburg

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:39 pm

    Any info on the progress of Afrikaner/Boer resettlement to Russia?

    par far

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  par far on Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:46 pm

    "Enough to fill 2 schools’: 700 kids died after falling from windows in Russia this year – ombudsman."


    https://www.rt.com/politics/439220-over-700-children-fell/
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:06 pm

    No matter what you do, you can't fix stupidity.

    I guess make it a law to prevent windows from opening?
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    Hole

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Hole on Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:57 pm

    Make it a criminal offence tu build houses with windows. thumbsup

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