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    Russian population

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    NationalRus
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    Re: Russian population

    Post  NationalRus on Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:07 pm

    we have huge problems in all kinds of ways in ou population, huge problems with durugs alcoholism and a low birth rate under our slavic population...

    encouragement alone is not enough, we need to take drastic "encouragement", big support for families with children and without harsh cuts, since a low birth rate will pressure more and more the working class which pays the pension for the old, we need to flip the pressure here, families without children will get ther pension cut by 50% when they reach pension age, families with 1 child will get a 25% cut, with 2 children a normal one and with more then 3 wll get a 5% increese for every child

    i think that would be the most "encouraging" way to get this lazy scum of a population that doesn't care that our countrs is dying out but only wants to have a good time to have children

    how to fight alcoholism most effectivly we already descuced here in a thread i started

    and drugs? execute every drug dealer out ther point blank, and every drug user goes for 5 years in a hard labour camp, thailnd dealed with its drug problem in a someway similar way, worked excellent

    but that are for now only dreams under our left-liberal on country spiting don't give a shit regime

    Pervius
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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Pervius on Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:03 pm

    """ low birth rate under our slavic population."""


    Many young slavic girls walking around in 1980's nylon winter jackets in Russia.....they felt they didn't belong because they had no place to live...be....no one was in charge of helping them get DECENT employment able to help Russia's economy.

    Russian's treated them like dirt and didn't care, left them on the streets. No incorporation plan.

    Copy America's model. Welfare cards, Section 8 Government checks to get apartments. Russians would rent out apartments and make money off of the slavic population...the slavic population would have a feeling of belonging...

    It may be too late to fix where Russia went wrong. Then again America's model failed because even though +40 million Mexicans got free food, healthcare, roof over their heads.....they all still fly the Mexican Flag.

    Firebird
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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Firebird on Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:41 pm

    I think there are many complex issues with shrinking or "greying" populations in the established nations -whether they be Russia, the US, or elsewhere.

    Firstly, I wonder whether Russia's population is really that "small". The whole CIS is still about 300m. The problem is that the Warsaw Pact is gone, the Ukraine is well.. being the Ukraine lol ( ie outside the CSTO)
    And there are 3 billion rapidly developing Asians to the East.

    So maybe, Russia as part of a big, solid alliance would partly solve the problem.

    Secondly, I think you can argue that Russia is underpopulated. I wonder if there hadn't been a WW2, Russia may have had 25 or even 40m more people today, and be significantly richer.

    Thirdly, I wonder what would have happened if Russia had a Chinese style government backed population growth drive.
    _______________________________________

    As for the reason for this population shrinkage, I suspect its partly because of emigration and also sometimes because young people feel insecure about their economic future, in many developed countries. Britain, for example, has a huge problem of "non-breeding" amongst non-Asians. If Russia is economically strong long term and continues to asserts her influence, I'm sure the Slavic population will grow.

    It needs investment in human capital ie people. Something that Western style Capitalism is often oblivious to.
    A grand plan of Stalinist proportions, but attuned to the nuances of a supposedly globalised economy.

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:53 am

    Most western countries are suffering population decline, though that is hidden by immigration figures... but that often creates more problems than it solves.

    Considering the problems created by over population I really don't think it is actually a serious problem to actually care about as such.

    The real focus should be on quality of life, and economic development to make life easier and better to prevent "brain drain".

    There are plenty of people who will leave their home country for a better life for themselves and their children, and I can understand what they are doing and why they do it.

    The facts of the matter are however such people will always flit from place to place, the secret is to offer a safe healthy educated place to return to... that means dealing with crime, dealing with corruption, improving education and healthcare, improving infrastructure and creating jobs and making affordable housing so people will have the chance to own their own homes and feel safe.

    Regarding the borders with China... I say offer citizenship to the people crossing from China... give them a vote and a taste of economic freedom and they might stay and become good citizens.

    Firebird
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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Firebird on Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:51 pm

    The concern with large numbers of Chinese entering Russia, is whether they will show any form of loyalty to their new home. Isn't the big concern for Russia that underpopulation might mean perhaps problems with China many, many years in the future?

    If Chinese become the majority in Siberia, who's to say they won't cause unrest and political trouble many years in the future, and demand to become part of China?

    Maybe there's a smallish underpopulation issue in Russia. The problem is that pure Capitalism claims "the market solves everything". But that is garbage. Some centralised planning could see incentives for breeding, and within 30 yrs, Russia could have a massively larger indigeneous population, I think.

    The other question is how Russia should compete with political, economic and military blocs, that are larger in terms of population.

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:45 am

    The concern with large numbers of Chinese entering Russia, is whether they will show any form of loyalty to their new home. Isn't the big concern for Russia that underpopulation might mean perhaps problems with China many, many years in the future?

    The question you need to deal with is why did they move to Russian territory?
    What brought them?
    Lets face it, it could be for political freedom, to get a vote, for 1,000 people there might be 1,000 different reasons.
    The point is, don't treat them as second class citizens. Don't try to screw them economically. Treat them as equals and they will work hard and make it a better place for all.
    Give them citizenship, let them enjoy life and prosper, and work hard and have families.
    Help them to learn Russian, and learn about the local culture and encourage them to take part in that culture.

    If Chinese become the majority in Siberia, who's to say they won't cause unrest and political trouble many years in the future, and demand to become part of China?

    If you treat them as foreigners, illegals, then they might decide they want an independent country, but like the Albanians in Kosovo, they wont want to expand China, just like the Albanians don't want to be ruled from Albania... a few radicals might, but they will remain a minority.

    China is hardly going to support independent states in the region considering the situation in Tibet...

    The problem is that pure Capitalism claims "the market solves everything". But that is garbage. Some centralised planning could see incentives for breeding, and within 30 yrs, Russia could have a massively larger indigeneous population, I think.

    I totally agree that the capitalistic claims that markets self regulate is rubbish... little companies become swallowed up by bigger companies and pretty soon you have banks that are too big to fail... split them up into little bits and let parts of them fail then... natural selection.
    Personally I don't think Russia needs a much larger population as that can create as many problems as it solves.
    The real problems that need solving are things like proper infrastructure for everyone, and of course the old chestnut of the gap between the rich and the poor.

    The other question is how Russia should compete with political, economic and military blocs, that are larger in terms of population.

    By staying out of the WTO and making its own decisions about economic policy.

    The WTO screwed NZ, we dropped all subsidies and government support for industry and most of it disappeared over night. Now everything we buy is from China.

    Ogannisyan8887
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    Demographics See Improvement

    Post  Ogannisyan8887 on Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:21 am


    The Economic Development Ministry is proposing that the government sell land permits at tenders for investors that seek to build retail, office or industrial space, in order to streamline a cumbersome procedure that can take up to three years going from official to official, Minister Elvira Nabiullina said Tuesday.

    Under the amendments that the ministry submitted for the second reading of a land-use bill going through the State Duma, municipal and regional governments would list available land plots online and organize electronic tenders should investors show interest in the plots, she said at a Presidium meeting.

    "We hope the bill will be one of the most important steps to reduce administrative barriers for investment projects," Nabiullina said.

    Health and Social Development Minister Tatyana Golikova reported a record birthrate figure last month. She said women gave birth to 173,200 babies in August, or more than in any other month since the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. Golikova did not name the overall population dynamics so far this year, but said the mortality rate had declined 6.1 percent in this year's first eight months from the same period last year.

    The slump in agriculture has been overcome, and the 2011 grain harvest can restore Russia's position as one of the leading grain exporters, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin told the government Tuesday, Interfax reported. "Today one can say with confidence that the slump in agriculture, which arose as a result of two years of abnormal heat and drought, has been overcome. The final grain crops are estimated at 90 million tons. The figure was 61 million last year and 96 million the year before last, but 90 million tons is a very good, indicative result," Putin said.

    VEB will invest 2 trillion rubles ($60 billion) in Russia's economy through 2015, Putin, who oversees the country's state development bank, also said at the government meeting.

    That's equivalent to 2.8 percent of gross domestic product, he added.

    Deputy Prime Minister Igor Sechin requested that Putin instruct the Federal Tariff Service to establish tariffs for the refueling services at all airports without alternative complexes.

    "One of the key issues is the monopolization of the market for delivering fuel to airports. At a majority of Russian airports, operations are conducted by one refueling complex, which unilaterally dominates that market and supplies air carriers with a range of services with no alternatives," he said.

    Regional differentiation is frequently unjustified, he said. Refueling an aircraft in Volgograd costs 5,000 rubles, but at Pulkovo in St. Petersburg 1,000 rubles and at Sheremetyevo 1,700 rubles.

    Sechin requested that Putin order the Transportation and Economic Development ministries to speed up work on creating alternative refueling complexes at airports. He added that it is important to task the Transportation Ministry with ensuring sufficient fuel reserves at airports to permit uninterrupted operations for 10 days.


    http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/demographics-see-improvement/444460.html

    GarryB
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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:47 am

    All seems very positive... betcha the BBC and CNN wont bother carrying this story like they pounced on the previous stories about population decline in Russia...

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:11 am

    There's a good read on this subject on the blog below. The blog is worth following if interested in Russia related subjects.

    Russia Demographic Update VII
    http://www.sublimeoblivion.com/2011/10/24/russia-demographic-update-7/

    Looks like vice related deaths have dropped slightly below 1990 levels...the start of the crisis


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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Firebird on Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:07 pm

    I dunno, but one think Russia has, is a type of national unity. Nothing could be further from that in places like France and Britain.

    In Britain you've got grandchildren of Asian immigrants and they have no affinity whatsoever with Britain, only with Pakistan, the Muslim world or whatever. Even tho their quality of life might be way better than back in Asia.

    Russia's biggest long term potential threat may be from China. Chinese are very nationally proud, regardless of what govt they support. I just think this could be a disaster waiting to happen if Chinese came in in large numbers.

    There's no reason why Russia cant expand its own populn if the govt sets the right incentives. The next options are Slavic /European immigration with some Central Asians perhaps.And ofcourse alliances with similar groups - CSTO, India, Brazil and parts of Europe.

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GarryB on Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:44 pm

    People don't have children when the economy or environment is bad... once the economy gets going there will be no issues with lack of population.

    Regarding Chinese immigrants... we have plenty here in New Zealand and most consider themselves New Zealanders... even though when most arrived a hundred years ago for the gold rushes around the place they were treated very badly by my ancestors.

    They are not moving to Russia to expand China... they left China looking for a better life and if you give it to them and make them feel welcome and secure then they will be some of the best citizens you could wish for.

    In general the recent immigrants from China (ie last 50 years or so) the first generation that arrived had market gardens to produce fresh vegetables, or they opened shops to sell mostly fish and chips. Now they are expanding into Asian food as the local population realises what wonderful food they produce.
    The second generation... the children of the new immigrants are pushed hard to succeed in education which is highly valued amongst the entire Asian community, so the second generation Kiwis are often doctors and lawyers and professional people. It is not often you see Chinese names in the court news in the newspapers.

    Still there is racism against asians here, and it really annoys me... they tend to be a lot better citizens than we get from the Pasific Islands who have a very different work ethic and much lower opinion of education.

    My advise is to embrace you new citizens... protect them, treat them as fellow citizens. Help them integrate into your culture. There are likely things they can teach you and things you can teach them... normally stereotypes are negative, but keeping in mind that stereotypes are generalisations and will not be 100% accurate in every individual case (there likely are plenty of ratbags) my personal opinion of Chinese New Zealanders is that we really don't have enough of them.

    The the last Mayor for Dunedin is ethinically chinese BTW. (Peter Chin).

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  TheArmenian on Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:23 pm

    Monthly government child assistance payments were doubled to US$55, and a one-time payment of US$9,200 was offered to women who had a second child since 2007

    From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Firebird on Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:36 pm

    GarryB wrote:People don't have children when the economy or environment is bad... once the economy gets going there will be no issues with lack of population.

    Regarding Chinese immigrants... we have plenty here in New Zealand and most consider themselves New Zealanders... even though when most arrived a hundred years ago for the gold rushes around the place they were treated very badly by my ancestors.

    They are not moving to Russia to expand China... they left China looking for a better life and if you give it to them and make them feel welcome and secure then they will be some of the best citizens you could wish for.

    In general the recent immigrants from China (ie last 50 years or so) the first generation that arrived had market gardens to produce fresh vegetables, or they opened shops to sell mostly fish and chips. Now they are expanding into Asian food as the local population realises what wonderful food they produce.
    The second generation... the children of the new immigrants are pushed hard to succeed in education which is highly valued amongst the entire Asian community, so the second generation Kiwis are often doctors and lawyers and professional people. It is not often you see Chinese names in the court news in the newspapers.

    Still there is racism against asians here, and it really annoys me... they tend to be a lot better citizens than we get from the Pasific Islands who have a very different work ethic and much lower opinion of education.

    My advise is to embrace you new citizens... protect them, treat them as fellow citizens. Help them integrate into your culture. There are likely things they can teach you and things you can teach them... normally stereotypes are negative, but keeping in mind that stereotypes are generalisations and will not be 100% accurate in every individual case (there likely are plenty of ratbags) my personal opinion of Chinese New Zealanders is that we really don't have enough of them.

    The the last Mayor for Dunedin is ethinically chinese BTW. (Peter Chin).

    There's certainly lots that is commendable in Chinese culture, I study it myself. And aside from triads, Chinese immigrants don't bring in much bad at all. MUch good infact.But I'm just thinking if S East Russia became 70% Chinese or even pockets became highly "Chinese-ified". That would be a risk to Russia's national security, potentially.

    I know I few Russians with Chinese blood, and I wouldn't be that suprised if I had some too. I just think the safest way to increase popln would be to protect Russian culture and affiliation. That can include Chinese, Nordics, Slavs, and some Central Asians. But I think they, or their families have to think "I am Russian".

    Isn't there an old phrase from when Novo Russiysk emerged -"Papa is a Turk, Mama is a Greek, but ja is a Russki"?

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GarryB on Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:32 am

    That is half the problem isn't it?

    Fear they will rebel and steal your territory and you will start treating them differently.... taking natural precautions... etc.

    That alone will alienate them and make them a separate group... and that will actually make them more likely to want to separate.

    Treat them with respect... honour their culture as you introduce yours to them.

    Offer them what they can't get in China now... not just a vote every few years.

    Make them feel Russian... they will always be Chinese ethically... I feel like a New Zealander yet when I sign official documents I am forced to put my ethnicity as European New Zealander. I have never even been to Europe, though ethnically my genetic ancestors are all British (A mix of scottish, welsh, english, and irish), but I have no strong attachment to such places I have never been to.

    Ask me personally and I will tell you I am a New Zealander and would never consider moving to the UK. I have patriotic feelings for the Queen, but I am not British.

    I think the goal should be to make the Chinese immigrants in Russia feel like Russians of Chinese heritage... maybe not the first generation, but certainly the next few.

    Some of their cultural habits are nice... like always bring a small gift when visiting... some will of course be alien to Russian culture but some aspects would not hurt you to adopt yourselves... Asian food has become very popular here for example.

    Very simply what I am saying is when they form communities... welcome them as fellow citizens and listen to their problems and try to help them. If you shun them and they keep to themselves then the triads will take root and exploit their isolation.

    The Chinese love to gamble so set up a few casinos near the border might be a good idea too. Smile

    Besides who else wants to live in such a harsh climate?

    You wont get people from Thailand or Malaysia putting up with temperatures regularly below 20 degrees C. Smile

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    Krasnoyarsk becomes latest million inhabitant city in Russia

    Post  TR1 on Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:59 am

    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/16193/

    1 millionths inhabitant born Smile .

    К началу января 2012 года в России насчитывалось 12 городов, население которых превышало миллион: Москва, Санкт-Петербург, Новосибирск, Екатеринбург, Нижний Новгород, Самара, Омск, Казань, Челябинск, Ростов-на-Дону, Уфа и Волгоград. Помимо Красноярска вплотную к городам-миллионникам приблизились Пермь, Воронеж, Саратов, Краснодар и Тольятти.

    By the beginning of 2012, there were 12 cities in Russia with populations over 1 million: Moscow, St. Petersburg,Novosibirsk, Yekaterinburg, Nizhni Novgorod, Samara, Omsk, Kazan, Chelabinsk, Rostov, Ufa and Volgograd. Beside Krasnoyarsk, a number of cities are on the edge of joining this group: Perm, Voronezh, Saratov, Krasnodar, Tolyeti.

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:21 am

    So with all those cities on the verge of having 1 million inhabitants does that mean that Russias population is still collapsing?

    The Irony is that most western countries have ageing populations that are mainly propped up with immigration...

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Viktor on Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:04 am

    Best presentation of any Russian city I bumped on net.
    Kazan.


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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Viktor on Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:01 pm

    Well if you put worlds most educated nation in country with biggest landmass on earth with biggest natural resources and give it a Putin at the top than all together focus on earning money ... respekt

    Russia World’s Most Educated Country - Report


    A new report analyzing education systems put Russia at the top of the list of the world’s most educated countries.
    According to the Education at a Glance 2012 report drafted by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), 54 per cent of Russians aged 25-64 hold academic degrees.
    Russia, which is not an OECD member, is followed by Canada (51%), Israel (46%), Japan (45%) and the United States (42%).
    The report analyzed the education systems of the 34 OECD member countries, and those of Russia, Argentina, Brazil, China, India, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia and South Africa.
    Russian Deputy Prime Minister Igor Shuvalov said last week that the government has drafted a special program on Russia’s accession to OECD, which will most likely happen in 2014.

    http://en.rian.ru/russia/20120912/175919621.html


    And one more interesting link about Russian population without migration

    Russia's demographic situation without migration

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  flamming_python on Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:47 pm

    I'll make this short and sweet.

    Russia showed natural growth (more births than deaths) I think for the first time these last few months. Note that Russia's population has been growing for a couple of years now but that was because immigration tipped the balance. Not any longer. More and more regions are showing growth. Now all but 2 federal districts report more births than deaths (exceptions being the Central and North-West districts; these are the 2 most prosperous AFAIK). Up until very recently only the North Caucasian federal district could boast of that.

    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/21679/

    And Pervius - piss off

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GarryB on Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:27 am

    I am pleased things are turning around and that things are improving in Russia.

    I always knew the negatives were temporary, but I also think that there shouldn't be too much emphasis on only births compared with deaths.

    A healthy positive growth figure is good, but quality of life, education, health, and a low crime rate and of course dealing with substance abuse are all important things as well.


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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Viktor on Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:28 am

    GarryB wrote:I am pleased things are turning around and that things are improving in Russia.

    I always knew the negatives were temporary, but I also think that there shouldn't be too much emphasis on only births compared with deaths.

    A healthy positive growth figure is good, but quality of life, education, health, and a low crime rate and of course dealing with substance abuse are all important things as well.

    Well you have close 1000 kindergarten, schools, universities, playing ground, cultures centeres, and sporting centers opened up since the begging of the year.

    Besides doing good for youngsters it will give them some healthy hobby taking them away from criminal and drugs and alcohol. In time Russian sports results will be greater but at the same time way of thinking will shift toward more productive one for society as a whole.

    Today I also came across information that in comparison with 2006 in 2012 there are 3.8 times less deaths related to alcohol.

    Than you have info about 2006 year about 30 000 Russian committed suicide and last year that number decreased to 20 500.

    All this positive figures are results of work on broad range of subjects with and idea of increasing Russian population and its health.

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GarryB on Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:03 am

    It is very good news... if only technology could deliver more in terms of an easier life for everyone.

    The utopian views of Star Trek and Star Wars should be an inspiration... if only Hollywood was a controllable propaganda machine that could be use to inspire and encourage as well as excite and titillate.

    Sadly it is only motivated by greed and its own self interests (ie earning more money).

    Perhaps as part of the new Skolkolvo (spelling) concept they could perhaps add a media centre to promote the technologies and inventions developed at the centre.

    No point in deveoping new technologies if you don't market and promote it too.


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    Will population rise in russia?

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:39 pm

    Many people are saying that the days of russia are numbered and it will desintigrate into many independent countries(tatarstan, chechnya, yakutia, dagestan, etc and countries like finland estonia and japan will return their "occupied territories"). Is this plausible?
    oops Off Topic

    So does russia still have a negative population change or is it improving? Are there as many russians immigrating by the millions to america as there were in the 90s? Do you think people from various other countries will immigrate to russia as en masse as the US to go live the "russian dream" in the furture? At least it seems that various folk from the central asian republics are immigrating to russia but my russian granma tells me that theyre causing more problems than solutions just like the pakistanis are doing in Britannistan and the other new muslim colonies of europe.

    My hope is that if a new socialist government for people(preferably KPRF) in russia rises to power and improves the living standard maybe we will probably see people immigrating from the other former soviet republics and then even from eastern europe giving it a rivaling immigration rate to the USA and west europe.

    Optimism aside do you think the russian population will reach 150 million in the next 50-70 years?

    Moved to existing thread on the same topic: GarryB

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    Re: Russian population

    Post  Viktor on Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:57 pm


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    Re: Russian population

    Post  GarryB on Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:48 am



    Many people hope for the collapse of countries they see as an enemy still... their beliefs often have little to do with reality.

    150 million is not some magic number that when reached will create an open fair happy society.

    Russia has a few problems... just like any other country does.

    Personally I like Putin and I think he is pushing things along better than any other leader in the world... if he was a New Zealander I would prefer him to be our prime minister and I am sure there are a few Americans here who would vote him American president if he was an American citizen with American values and issues at heart.

    Half the problem is that the west sees growth as positive, stable level numbers as some sort of stagnation, and decline as a descent into poverty and chaos.

    The reality is that if you take away migration then most of the west has shrinking population problems too, but these problems are covered by immigration which as you mention causes its own problems.

    There are many people who will leave their country in search of a better place for their children, but with a growing economy and job creation in Russia I rather suspect the flood of people leaving the country for better employment prospects has dropped to a trickle. Of course there will always be those looking for a better climate or a thousands other different reasons... and that is fine.

    Of course things are not helped by the negative picture of Russia painted in the western media, but I am sure over time the real people will get tired of these sad old stereotypes and with contact through the internet those dumb white euro centric westerners will realise most people from Russia are just people, they are not satan worshipping baby eaters. They don't back Syria to spite the west. They back Syria because they have good relations with Syria and port facilities there. Just like the west has good relations with Saudi Arabia and has lots of facilities there despite that regime being nothing like a democracy. Iran and Syria give their people a vote and in many ways are much more moderate and tolerant societies than Saudi Arabia.

    The western media wont tell you that.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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    Re: Russian population

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      Current date/time is Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:05 am