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    Mikoyan LMFS

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    GarryB
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    Re: Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  GarryB on Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:08 am

    Except that the LMFS is a rather old program... junior to the MFI and then MFS programs that led to the PAK FA program.

    It has already had lots of serious work done on it and many of the components on the Mig-35 will likely be part of it including the AESA radar.

    Sukhoi will already be busy with PAK FA including the unmanned version and likely a cat launched naval model too, plus the Su-25SM upgrade and replacement.

    I rather suspect this will be a MiG led programme.


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    Re: Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  Austin on Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:58 am

    LMFS purchase is documented in RuAF 2021-2025 program as part of Purchase of Frontline Aircraft

    http://www.aviaport.ru/news/2013/05/14/254804.html

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    Re: Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  GarryB on Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:34 am

    Having a cheaper numbers aircraft makes sense... later on as the technology matures it could be replaced with an unmanned aircraft but technology in datalinks and telecontrol need to be bullet proof to put all your eggs in that basket...


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    Re: Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  Viktor on Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:12 am

    GarryB wrote:Having a cheaper numbers aircraft makes sense... later on as the technology matures it could be replaced with an unmanned aircraft but technology in datalinks and telecontrol need to be bullet proof to put all your eggs in that basket...

    We saw what happened to American RQ-170 the stealthiest of all stealth  Very Happy

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    Re: Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  GarryB on Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:25 am

    Exactly... they forgot drones are supposed to be cheap and expendable.

    No point in building numbers planes that are more expensive than existing aircraft.

    By the time the LFS is ready for flight tests AESA modules should be in mass production in several factories in Russia being produced for aircraft, missiles, ships, and land vehicles, as well as satellites etc. The price per module should mean that multiple arrays will be able to be mounted all round the aircraft facing all directions at once giving 360 degree coverage in both active and passive mode... allowing detection and ECM features to be deployed immediately in any direction... and also to allow over the shoulder missile launches... imagine the aircraft flying along when a target appears behind at 60-80km distance... one option would be to turn 180 degrees and fire a medium range missile, but equally they could continue flying forward on their mission and fire a long range missile (R-37M) and have the missile turn 180 degrees at launch to engage the target while the aircraft accelerates away from the threat.


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    Re: Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  CaptainPakistan on Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:35 pm

    Ha ha ha at read firing R-37M, never gonna happen. Even the rear firing R-73 flopped due to inferior russian expertise.
    Btw its the K-37. R means production and its not in production. This is a common rookie mistake, so I dont blame you.

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    Re: Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  sepheronx on Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:37 pm

    CaptainPakistan wrote:Ha ha ha at read firing R-37M, never gonna happen. Even the rear firing R-73 flopped due to inferior russian expertise.
    Btw its the K-37. R means production and its not in production. This is a common rookie mistake, so I dont blame you.

    See GarryB, is this enough for you to understand the idiot is a troll.

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    Re: Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  TR1 on Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:43 pm

    Yeah he is blatantly baiting.

    Ban Smile .

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    Re: Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  CaptainPakistan on Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:10 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    CaptainPakistan wrote:Ha ha ha at read firing R-37M, never gonna happen. Even the rear firing R-73 flopped due to inferior russian expertise.
    Btw its the K-37. R means production and its not in production. This is a common rookie mistake, so I dont blame you.

    See GarryB, is this enough for you to understand the idiot is a troll.

    What about that is trolling? It is a correct statement. You want to ban someone for saying the R-37M is still in testing and doesn't fire backwards? Is this the Russian way? Hide the truth? The people on Pakistani Defence Forum are far better at debating and far more learned than the cry babies here. You lose a debate and then cry ban....



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    Re: Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  GarryB on Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:06 am

    The people on Pakistani Defence Forum are far better at debating and far more learned than the cry babies here. You lose a debate and then cry ban....

    I don't doubt your colleagues at Pak DEF are master 'de' baters, you are clearly one yourself with your master baiting here.

    Perhaps if you tried a bit harder however and actually read what I said instead of what you clearly just think I wrote we would have something sensible to talk about.

    Ha ha ha at read firing R-37M, never gonna happen. Even the rear firing R-73 flopped due to inferior russian expertise.

    I assume based on the second part of the sentence above you perhaps meant to write: Ha ha ha at rear firing R-37M, never gonna happen. Even the rear firing R-73 flopped due to inferior russian expertise.

    If you read what I actually said:

    they could continue flying forward on their mission and fire a long range missile (R-37M) and have the missile turn 180 degrees at launch to engage the target while the aircraft accelerates away from the threat.

    ie launch the missile in forward flight heading away from the tail chasing target threat and have the missile turn 180 degrees on launch to engage the targets behind the launch aircraft.

    Often called an over the shoulder shot and nothing to do with mounting missiles facing backwards on launch rails.

    And for your information the R-73, with its thrust vectoring rocket motor was the only missile the Russians found that could actually be fired backwards and still retain a lock on the target.

    Btw its the K-37. R means production and its not in production. This is a common rookie mistake, so I dont blame you.

    The R-37 was tested in the 1990s, it was cleared for service but did not enter service in large numbers because of a lack of funds... just test models for the few Mig-31Ms.

    The R-37M is the domestic version of the RVV-BD and is intended to fly extended distances on very specific missions.


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    Re: Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:33 am

    CaptainPakistan wrote:

    What about that is trolling? It is a correct statement. You want to ban someone for saying the R-37M is still in testing and doesn't fire backwards? Is this the Russian way? Hide the truth? The people on Pakistani Defence Forum are far better at debating and far more learned than the cry babies here. You lose a debate and then cry ban....

    You call the members here cry babies... violation of two rules. You have already been warned so welcome to Afbanistan.   welcome


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    Re: Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  George1 on Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:41 pm

    Mikhail Pogosyan: UAC is not developing a light fifth-generation fighter
    Russian Aviaton » Monday April 21, 2014 15:01 MSK

    The development of light fifth-generation fighter is not one of the top-priority projects of United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), Voenno-promishlenniy Courier reports with reference to the president of UAC, Mikhail Pogosyan.

    «I don’t eliminate the possibility of developing a light fifth-generation aircraft, but this project is not included in the roadmap of UAC», - Pogosyan said. He also noted that in the near-term UAC will continue the expansion of MiG-29 fighter’s capabilities and then upgrade it to MiG-35 version.

    The contracts with Russian and Indian Ministries of Defense for delivery of MiG-29K/KUB aircraft make “UAC focus on production of these fighters”, the corporation’s president added.

    Head of UAC also said that a vector of development will be defined after completion of work on MiG-29K/35 Family: the corporation will choose between development of a UAV and a light fifth-generation fighter.

    Speaking of possibilities for development of the light fifth-generation fighter, the president of UAC said that copying of US analogues is no god for many reasons. Soviet and Russian aircraft industry had always taken its own way in accordance with the current military doctrine, he added.

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    Re: Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  GarryB on Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:59 am

    That title is misleading.

    A more accurate title would be:

    Mikhail Pogosyan: UAC is not developing a light fifth-generation fighter right now.

    As explained in the article they are no currently working on a light 5th gen design because they are currently working on improving the MiG-29SMT and also further developing the MiG-35 and of course making MiG-29Ks for India and Russia.

    Once the MiG-35 is in service they will likely then make the decision as to whether they can actually make an affordable but also capable light 5th gen fighter, or if instead they decide to make cheaper unmanned armed aircraft to support heavier more expensive stealth fighters.

    Personally I think they have to be sensible and not try to make a light 5th gen fighter that is as capable as the PAK FA will be or better.

    The focus should be low purchase and operating costs. Reasonable stealth meaning small internal weapons capacity, with the idea that hundreds of light fighters should be able to quickly remove enemy air power from the skies and then revert to a less stealthy range of roles of numbers aircraft with external stores and fuel to extend range and engage large numbers of ground targets or air targets.

    The enemy will either have stealth aircraft which means lots of LMFS would be needed to deal with them in stealth configuration but they will not need to be heavily armed as the enemy wont be able to afford the same number of stealth aircraft as 4th gens.
    If the enemy has lots of 4th gen fighters then lots of LMFS with some clean and stealthy and lots of others flying relatively high with lots of external stores plus of course PAK FA all working together to deal with numbers of enemy fighters and other aircraft types.

    If the enemy is third world then after a few main radars are taken out stealth might not be needed so external heavy payloads can be used to bludgen the enemy quickly.

    Personally I don't see drones cutting it as being stealthy AND cheap AND capable... capable and stealthy is expensive...

    A lot of experience with MiG-35 should get them to a point where they can optimise systems and equipment for the LMFS and make it effective and cheaper.

    If the LMFS isn't 5 times cheaper than PAK FA then there is not point...


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    Re: Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  TR1 on Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:14 am

    MOD has not even decided if it wants a light fighter, an armed drone, or something else.

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    Re: Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  collegeboy16 on Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:32 am

    a light stealth fighter is the obvious choice. a drone is just getting ahead of themselves.

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    Re: Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:51 pm

    What is taking the MiG-35 so long? Russia needs to introduce the new technologies and start getting AESA out on the market, as it will reduce costs. They have working prototypes of the Zhuk A radar and obviously the N036 for PAK FA. So what is taking so long?

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    Re: Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  mutantsushi on Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:45 am

    At this point I don't see the value in putting into service the originally planned AESA array,
    sure the computer and everything for it is fine enough,
    but might as well go with the more advanced ceramic miniaturized TR modules that will be mass produced,
    likewise if it's taking longer may as well bring other newer subsystems into play, possibly DIRCM.

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    Re: Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:10 am

    What is taking the MiG-35 so long? Russia needs to introduce the new technologies and start getting AESA out on the market, as it will reduce costs. They have working prototypes of the Zhuk A radar and obviously the N036 for PAK FA. So what is taking so long?

    The rest of the aircraft.

    They have stated orders will start in 2016 which is not bad.

    In the mean time there will be MiG-29SMT which is constantly being improved, and the MiG-29K and MiG-29M2 which are also benefiting from work on the MiG-35.

    At this point I don't see the value in putting into service the originally planned AESA array,
    sure the computer and everything for it is fine enough,
    but might as well go with the more advanced ceramic miniaturized TR modules that will be mass produced,
    likewise if it's taking longer may as well bring other newer subsystems into play, possibly DIRCM.

    Exactly... plus if all their Army Helicopters are getting DIRCMs I would think the MiG-35 would have them too...


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    Re: Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  Viktor on Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:37 pm

    Well, something is in the pipeline and thats for sure  thumbsup 

    RAC MiG boss eyes fifth-generation fighter


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    Re: Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:38 pm

    Viktor wrote:Well, something is in the pipeline and thats for sure  thumbsup 

    RAC MiG boss eyes fifth-generation fighter


    The PAK-FA T-50 is about to be inducted soon, lets hope this means that he LFMS program is in the works.

    According to Paralay, originally this was supposed to be Mig's submitted design for the PAK-FA program, but I hope it's adopted (and tweeked) for the light (or low) fighter mix:









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    Re: Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  collegeboy16 on Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:01 am

    kinda like a smaller raptor with the nose flattened, cockpit extended and the intakes moved to the bottom.

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    Re: Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  Werewolf on Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:49 pm

    collegeboy16 wrote:kinda like a smaller raptor with the nose flattened, cockpit extended and the intakes moved to the bottom.

    Actually it is a Su-34 (front section) and T-50 mid/after section.

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    Re: Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:26 pm

    To me Mig's Pak-Fa design looks like a mix between Su-34 (Nose cone), F-22 (general LO stealth shaping of the air-frame from the top view), and F-16 (Side view of cockpit, and air intakes that are on the center-bottom of the fuselage).

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    Re: Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  TR1 on Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:42 pm

    Viktor wrote:Well, something is in the pipeline and thats for sure  thumbsup 

    RAC MiG boss eyes fifth-generation fighter


    Correction, MiG would love to have something in the pipeline as far as a new jet is concerned.

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    Re: Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  Viktor on Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:38 pm

    TR1 wrote:Correction, MiG would love to have something in the pipeline as far as a new jet is concerned.

    Where there is a will, there is a way  Very Happy 

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