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    Mikoyan LMFS

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    sepheronx
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    Re: Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Oct 04, 2015 9:29 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    Alright, so Micran is the other company that makes them besides JSC Istok.  Odd thing is, Micran said their modules are used on MiG-35 Zhuk-A radar.  I thought Istok was the one that is used for the modules for MiG.  See, and this is where I was talking about information that is quite scewed.  As for cooling, they are using a method of liquid cooling from my understanding but it is still problematic.  They could have solved that issue though, I am not sure as I heard very little.

    Micran is probably Russia's largest semiconductor company with the most modern lithography machinery in Russia (and lobbying for another $1.5B to further modernize it) and a recent member of a special economic zone.  So expect to see more of their products.  Since they make GaN as they said, then it will probably corner the Russian market (maybe even Istok too would end up being merged or losing out).  Dunno what to think about that....

    Yeah they did say they are using liquid cooling, thing is what kind of liquid to they use, fluid mechanics and thermodynamics are as you know nasty areas of engineering, alot of math that barely makes any sense even to people that are actually into it. Also i belive they use single stage liquid coolant systems as anyone else at this point anyways but, buttt if they manage to figure out those on West proposed future two stage coolants...that would make their life alot easier.

    "Two phase-cooling systems outperform single-phase cooling systems for two key reasons. First, two-phase cooling takes advantage of not only the higher heat absorption capacity of the liquid (that is, sensible heat), but also the heat absorbed when the liquid vaporizes (that is, the heat of vaporization). Second, two-phase flow in cooling channels can support orders of magnitude higher heat flux than single-phase liquid flow at comparable coolant flow rates and thermal conditions. For some applications, a two-phase cooling system can operate with less than 50 percent of the flow rate required in single-phase systems. This directly translates into smaller pumps, fluid lines, and quick disconnects, and less pumping power, resulting in a much smaller thermal management system. The resulting higher energy dissipation capacity of a two-phase system is especially important for aircraft and pod applications where SWaP is critical."

    Source: http://mil-embedded.com/articles/two-phase-meets-challenges-modern-radar-applications/


    There is also gas cooling too, but I don't know if they use that in terms of radar systems at all.

    I am curious what Rostec will come up with. Since they have the funding and the facilities, I imagine they will come up with a cooling solution for Micran modules.

    BTW+ to you on the Micran pdf. Because it also has info on Micran's GaN modules which I have been trying to look for for sometime.

    Militarov
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    Re: Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  Militarov on Sun Oct 04, 2015 9:35 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    Alright, so Micran is the other company that makes them besides JSC Istok.  Odd thing is, Micran said their modules are used on MiG-35 Zhuk-A radar.  I thought Istok was the one that is used for the modules for MiG.  See, and this is where I was talking about information that is quite scewed.  As for cooling, they are using a method of liquid cooling from my understanding but it is still problematic.  They could have solved that issue though, I am not sure as I heard very little.

    Micran is probably Russia's largest semiconductor company with the most modern lithography machinery in Russia (and lobbying for another $1.5B to further modernize it) and a recent member of a special economic zone.  So expect to see more of their products.  Since they make GaN as they said, then it will probably corner the Russian market (maybe even Istok too would end up being merged or losing out).  Dunno what to think about that....

    Yeah they did say they are using liquid cooling, thing is what kind of liquid to they use, fluid mechanics and thermodynamics are as you know nasty areas of engineering, alot of math that barely makes any sense even to people that are actually into it. Also i belive they use single stage liquid coolant systems as anyone else at this point anyways but, buttt if they manage to figure out those on West proposed future two stage coolants...that would make their life alot easier.

    "Two phase-cooling systems outperform single-phase cooling systems for two key reasons. First, two-phase cooling takes advantage of not only the higher heat absorption capacity of the liquid (that is, sensible heat), but also the heat absorbed when the liquid vaporizes (that is, the heat of vaporization). Second, two-phase flow in cooling channels can support orders of magnitude higher heat flux than single-phase liquid flow at comparable coolant flow rates and thermal conditions. For some applications, a two-phase cooling system can operate with less than 50 percent of the flow rate required in single-phase systems. This directly translates into smaller pumps, fluid lines, and quick disconnects, and less pumping power, resulting in a much smaller thermal management system. The resulting higher energy dissipation capacity of a two-phase system is especially important for aircraft and pod applications where SWaP is critical."

    Source: http://mil-embedded.com/articles/two-phase-meets-challenges-modern-radar-applications/


    There is also gas cooling too, but I don't know if they use that in terms of radar systems at all.  

    I am curious what Rostec will come up with.  Since they have the funding and the facilities, I imagine they will come up with a cooling solution for Micran modules.

    BTW+ to you on the Micran pdf.  Because it also has info on Micran's GaN modules which I have been trying to look for for sometime.

    Well i assume, indirectly tho, this two stage liquid cooling uses vaporisation as cooling mechanism too, somewhat like our fridges do i guess. Oh, ty, glad to be of help.

    sepheronx
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    Re: Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Oct 04, 2015 9:39 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    Alright, so Micran is the other company that makes them besides JSC Istok.  Odd thing is, Micran said their modules are used on MiG-35 Zhuk-A radar.  I thought Istok was the one that is used for the modules for MiG.  See, and this is where I was talking about information that is quite scewed.  As for cooling, they are using a method of liquid cooling from my understanding but it is still problematic.  They could have solved that issue though, I am not sure as I heard very little.

    Micran is probably Russia's largest semiconductor company with the most modern lithography machinery in Russia (and lobbying for another $1.5B to further modernize it) and a recent member of a special economic zone.  So expect to see more of their products.  Since they make GaN as they said, then it will probably corner the Russian market (maybe even Istok too would end up being merged or losing out).  Dunno what to think about that....

    Yeah they did say they are using liquid cooling, thing is what kind of liquid to they use, fluid mechanics and thermodynamics are as you know nasty areas of engineering, alot of math that barely makes any sense even to people that are actually into it. Also i belive they use single stage liquid coolant systems as anyone else at this point anyways but, buttt if they manage to figure out those on West proposed future two stage coolants...that would make their life alot easier.

    "Two phase-cooling systems outperform single-phase cooling systems for two key reasons. First, two-phase cooling takes advantage of not only the higher heat absorption capacity of the liquid (that is, sensible heat), but also the heat absorbed when the liquid vaporizes (that is, the heat of vaporization). Second, two-phase flow in cooling channels can support orders of magnitude higher heat flux than single-phase liquid flow at comparable coolant flow rates and thermal conditions. For some applications, a two-phase cooling system can operate with less than 50 percent of the flow rate required in single-phase systems. This directly translates into smaller pumps, fluid lines, and quick disconnects, and less pumping power, resulting in a much smaller thermal management system. The resulting higher energy dissipation capacity of a two-phase system is especially important for aircraft and pod applications where SWaP is critical."

    Source: http://mil-embedded.com/articles/two-phase-meets-challenges-modern-radar-applications/


    There is also gas cooling too, but I don't know if they use that in terms of radar systems at all.  

    I am curious what Rostec will come up with.  Since they have the funding and the facilities, I imagine they will come up with a cooling solution for Micran modules.

    BTW+ to you on the Micran pdf.  Because it also has info on Micran's GaN modules which I have been trying to look for for sometime.

    Well i assume, indirectly tho, this two stage liquid cooling uses vaporisation as cooling mechanism too, somewhat like our fridges do i guess. Oh, ty, glad to be of help.

    That is a possibility as I have gone over with the local engineer and refrigeration mechanic at my office of the different types. My father explained in the past it was simply gas cooling they used when setting up the radar systems for air defense up in northern Canada.

    According to this:
    http://www.micran.com/news/326346/

    Talks about Micran's GaN modules. But the website is not listing it. I can only assume it is because they are keeping it really...secretive of the development of GaN modules as it is still under development stage.

    rtech
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    Re: Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  rtech on Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:49 pm

    Info stolen from keypub user crow11

    - Mig is working independently on its 5th gen plane
    - it is going to have a mass of 15 tonns (that is twice less then Pakfa)not sure if empty...
    - It is going to be revealed in 2016

    http://oborona.gov.ru/media/video/rusor2015102015

    sorry source is in russian info @ 9 min approximately

    Militarov
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    Re: Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  Militarov on Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:47 am

    rtech wrote:Info stolen from keypub user crow11

    - Mig is working independently on its 5th gen plane
    - it is going to have a mass of 15 tonns (that is twice less then Pakfa)not sure if empty...
    - It is going to be revealed in 2016

    http://oborona.gov.ru/media/video/rusor2015102015

    sorry source is in russian info @ 9 min approximately

    Probably a full size mockup in 2016. i guess, at least thats what i find plausible.

    Cyberspec
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    Re: Mikoyan LMFS

    Post  Cyberspec on Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:27 am

    Interesting news either way....at least we'll have an idea what it looks like

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