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    Su-30 for Russian Air Force

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    marcellogo

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  marcellogo on Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:26 pm

    Seem me that the thing work on that pattern:

    Actual Su-30SM order will be completed before the end of year.
    They contracted a new one for the next three years.
    Press- published news of signing of contract .
    Another source published the additional news of the installation of -117S engine.
    Everyone in the forum rejoiced.
    Gunship democracy raised the issue of "Why nothing on Su -34"?
    Everyone started bickering.

    Maybe the most probable aswer would be: given that actual order of Su-34 is still far to be completed, they are not making provision to sign another one a.t.m. so no news on it.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:08 am

    PapaDragon wrote:....... Su-30​ will be getting most orders because it became mass-use model (like F-16 is for USA)

    So far Su-34 is procured in larger numbers then Su-30SM isnt it? does it mean that tactical bomber is more important now for Russia?



    Su-34 will also see large production since it's only aircraft in it's class available (tactical bomber) and because it performes beyond all expectations

    you mean like bombing US bred & fed terrorists moderate opposition?
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:13 am

    Isos wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:Better option would be a Su-35 dual seater to replace Su-30SM. While upgrades to Bars radar makes it nearly same performance as Irbis, it still would create commonality of parts and thus make things much cheaper for maintenance and spares.

    What parts are different ? Electronics and airframes are different but I doubt they need spare parts to replace that as it last for the entire life.

    Mechanical parts should be the same inside the sukhoi family.

    Both engine looks ok and they are made by the same company so they probably share as much part as possible.

    Su-30 is bought because it is cheaper than su-35 and capable enough for 95% of the scenarios russia could face. The other 5% is fighting stealth aircraft, thay's why they buy fewer su-35 and now su-57.

    One quick note - Su-30SM is apparently more expensive than Su-35. Su-35 comes out to $27M per aircraft while Su-30 is roughly ~$30M per aircraft.
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    Hole

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  Hole on Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:48 pm

    They charge the extra seat. Laughing
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    Isos

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  Isos on Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:10 pm


    One quick note - Su-30SM is apparently more expensive than Su-35. Su-35 comes out to $27M per aircraft while Su-30 is roughly ~$30M per aircraft.
    Back to top

    confused

    Your data looks weired. Su-30 is weaker than su-35, only advantage is the 2nd seat. If su-35 was cheaper they would have bought more of them instead of su-30. They would have even developed a two seat version.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:18 pm

    Su-30SM carries some tech from Su-30MKI like the French heads up display to reach commonality in some parts. In end it was pointless and so they are looking to integrate Su-35 hud. Such little things increased prices more than they should.
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    medo

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:29 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Su-30SM carries some tech from Su-30MKI like the French heads up display to reach commonality in some parts. In end it was pointless and so they are looking to integrate Su-35 hud. Such little things increased prices more than they should.

    No, Su-30SM carries some tech from Su-30MKM for Malaysia, which use French HUD, Russian central computers, L-150 Pastel RWR, etc. Indian Su-30MKI have Israeli HUD, Indian RWR and a mix of Israeli, French and Indian avionics. Su-30MKM have only Russian and French components.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:38 pm

    my mistake.

    Point still stands. Su-35 is all Russian, and more capable than Su-30SM. Su-30SM (later builds) and then SM2 are supposed to carry all Russian components.
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    LMFS

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  LMFS on Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:53 pm

    Last Su-30SM contract this year for ca. 70 billion Rubles means 1.94 billion or roughly 28 USD million per plane at the current exchange rate.
    MoD ordered 50 Su-35 in 2015 for "more" than RUB 60 billion, that would be 1.2 billion Ruble or (astonishingly) 17 USD million per plane. They were nevertheless sold for more than 100 USD million to China
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:20 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:....... Su-30​ will be getting most orders because it became mass-use model (like F-16 is for USA)

    So far Su-34 is procured in larger numbers then Su-30SM isnt it? does it mean that tactical bomber is more important now for Russia?

    Su-34 will also see large production since it's only aircraft in it's class available (tactical bomber) and because it performes beyond all expectations

    you mean like bombing US bred & fed  terrorists moderate opposition?

    VKS has loads of Su-22 Su-24 bombers from the 60s that need replacement ASAP and Su-34 is what will replace them. Fighter fleet is much younger on averae (80s and up) so there is les of a pinch there. Hence Su-34 take priority over fighters for now.

    As for bombing moderates, that's how the game is played.  It's all in the game.  Cool


    LMFS wrote:...Last Su-30SM contract this year for ca. 70 billion Rubles means 1.94 billion or roughly 28 USD million per plane at the current exchange rate.
    MoD ordered 50 Su-35 in 2015 for "more" than RUB 60 billion, that would be 1.2 billion Ruble or (astonishingly) 17 USD million per plane. They were nevertheless sold for more than 100 USD million to China

    Now can you imagine how cheap VKS gets Su-30 for?   thumbsup




    Last edited by PapaDragon on Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:46 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Su-24 not Su-22)
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    LMFS

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  LMFS on Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:38 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:Now can you imagine how cheap VKS gets Su-30 for?   thumbsup
    Well, actually I got disorientated by the apparently ridiculous procurement price of the Su-35 instead... Suspect

    I guess the contracts of MoD with state-owned companies are to be taken with a pinch of salt. In any case, an aircraft like the Su-30SM for less than 30 million is an absolute bargain.
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    franco

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  franco on Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:42 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:....... Su-30​ will be getting most orders because it became mass-use model (like F-16 is for USA)

    So far Su-34 is procured in larger numbers then Su-30SM isnt it? does it mean that tactical bomber is more important now for Russia?

    Su-34 will also see large production since it's only aircraft in it's class available (tactical bomber) and because it performes beyond all expectations

    you mean like bombing US bred & fed  terrorists moderate opposition?

    VKS has loads of Su-22 bombers from the 60s that need replacement ASAP and Su-34 is what will replace them. Fighter fleet is much younger on averae (80s and up) so there is les of a pinch there. Hence Su-34 take priority over fighters for now.

    As for bombing moderates, that's how the game is played.  It's all in the game.  Cool


    LMFS wrote:...Last Su-30SM contract this year for ca. 70 billion Rubles means 1.94 billion or roughly 28 USD million per plane at the current exchange rate.
    MoD ordered 50 Su-35 in 2015 for "more" than RUB 60 billion, that would be 1.2 billion Ruble or (astonishingly) 17 USD million per plane. They were nevertheless sold for more than 100 USD million to China

    Now can you imagine how cheap VKS gets Su-30 for?   thumbsup


    What Su-22 bombers?
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:45 pm

    franco wrote:.......What Su-22 bombers?

    Oh crap, it's Su-24 not Su-22 Embarassed
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  JohninMK on Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:55 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    franco wrote:.......What Su-22 bombers?

    Oh crap, it's Su-24 not Su-22  Embarassed
    You were getting a wee bit too close to the Tu-22 too and fro on the other thread Smile Smile
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:09 am

    JohninMK wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    franco wrote:.......What Su-22 bombers?

    Oh crap, it's Su-24 not Su-22  Embarassed
    You were getting a wee bit too close to the Tu-22 too and fro on the other thread Smile Smile

    Need to sleep more... Smile

    VKS should really start giving these things nicknames, can't keep up with all the numbers

    marcellogo

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  marcellogo on Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:40 am



    So far Su-34 is procured in larger numbers then Su-30SM isnt it? does it mean that tactical bomber is more important now for Russia?


    VKS has loads of Su-22 Su-24 bombers from the 60s that need replacement ASAP and Su-34 is what will replace them. Fighter fleet is much younger on averae (80s and up) so there is les of a pinch there. Hence Su-34 take priority over fighters for now.

    As for bombing moderates, that's how the game is played.  It's all in the game.  Cool




    Now can you imagine how cheap VKS gets Su-30 for?   thumbsup



    For what I know all the Su-24 actually in service in the VKS are M model from 1981-1993, so about the same age of legacy Fulcrum and Flankers.
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    AMCXXL

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  AMCXXL on Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:07 am

    New batch of Su-30SM underway
    "zveno" with Nº57,58,59,60 already fly  thumbsup
    Only two more Su-30SM are necesary for complete 14 IAP at Kursk
    The number of Su-30SM received is 90 for the VKS and 112 in total including Navy
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    George1

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  George1 on Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:39 pm

    AMCXXL wrote:New batch of Su-30SM underway
    "zveno" with Nº57,58,59,60 already fly  thumbsup
    Only two more Su-30SM are necesary for complete 14 IAP at Kursk
    The number of Su-30SM received is 90 for the VKS and 112 in total including Navy

    the known contracts are 88 Su-30SM for Air Force and 28 for Navy. Since we are over 88 for Air Force do we have a new contract and for how many birds?
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    AMCXXL

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  AMCXXL on Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:00 pm

    George1 wrote:
    AMCXXL wrote:New batch of Su-30SM underway
    "zveno" with Nº57,58,59,60 already fly  thumbsup
    Only two more Su-30SM are necesary for complete 14 IAP at Kursk
    The number of Su-30SM received is 90 for the VKS and 112 in total including Navy

    the known contracts are 88 Su-30SM for Air Force and 28 for Navy. Since we are over 88 for Air Force do we have a new contract and for how many birds?


    The contracts are signed by high political officials of Ministry of Defence (goverment), not for the Airforce or Navy (soldiers)
    So in the end, the MoD can tell how to distribute the airplanes, since the difference is basically the painting
    The contracts signed by the Ministries must be published in the official newspaper of the state of Russia, and I have not read anything that the distribution of the aircraft was published there, only 36 aircraft for the MoD
    Also since the end of 2014-beginning of 2015, many things have changed and it is not clear that when the contract was signed it was thought to re-equip Kursk in full

    I have found the original post of bmpd about the signature of the contract in 2015 https://bmpd.livejournal.com/1828574.html
    The headline is: The contract for another 36 Su-30SM fighter jets for the Russian Defense Ministry
    Later he said:
    Thus, the total number of Su-30SM fighter planes contracted since 2012 for the Russian Defense Ministry has reached 116 aircraft, of which 96 are for the Russian Air Force (VKS), and another 20 for the Russian Navy aviation
    And at the end:
    UPD:According to Aleksey Nikolsky, a well-known journalist of the Vedomosti newspaper, out of 36 Su-30SM aircraft of the new contract, only 28 cars are designed for Russian military aviation, and eight more for Russian Navy aviation. Thus, as a result of the total number of 116 Su-30SM fighter planes contracted since 2012 for the Russian Defense Ministry, 88 are designed for the Russian Air Force (VCS), and another 28 for the Russian Navy Aviation


    And here is the matter: "According to a well-known journalist"
    The problem is to take the press articles as if they were facts, when often they are only hypotheses, rumors, or predictions
    After, these supposed news are repeated thousands of times throughout the web and in the end they seem absolute truths

    However. although this speculation may be true in 2015, in 2018 it has been proven wrong, the facts are that by the end of 2018 MoD will have received at least 114 aircraft of which 92 will be in the VKS and 22 in the Navy


    Another "apparent contradiction" is that the 36 contract should be finalized before the end of 2018 (time limit) and as announced, this year will be handed over 14 , and other two planes will remain pending for 2019
    The contracts oblige both parties to comply with them, but nothing prevents modifying, advancing or delaying the fulfillment of the contracts if it is of "mutual agreement", which in this case means: as decided by the Russian government


    Looking at the previous contracts it makes more sense that the distribution is actually 32 VKS and 4 Navy
    The first contract of 30 was 24 for a regiment (Domna) and 6 for Lipetsk-Akhtubinsk
    The second contract of 30 was 24 for another regiment (Millerovo) and 6 for Dzemgi-Vladivostok, although 4 of Millerovo were transferred to the GLITs
    It makes sense that of the contract of 36 were 32 for the VKS (24 Kursk + 8 Kubinka TSAPT) and the last 4 for the Navy

    So the Navy would be 24 (2 squadrons), although in 2016 two planes were sent to the 279 KIAP regiment to replace their 2 Su-27UB
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    George1

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  George1 on Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:40 pm

    anyway since we have 112 delivered in total and we expect another 2 for Russian Air Force by the end of 2018, the total number for Russian Naval Aviation will be 22 (as it is now) or 24 (it remains to know where the last 2 Su-30SM will go)
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    AMCXXL

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  AMCXXL on Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:00 pm

    George1 wrote:anyway since we have 112 delivered in total and we expect another 2 for Russian Air Force by the end of 2018, the total number for Russian Naval Aviation will be 22 (as it is now) or 24 (it remains to know where the last 2 Su-30SM will go)


    The reasonable is next year Navy receive probably 4 Su-30SM for complete the squadron of Chernyakhovsk, 2 fulfill the current contract and 2 begining the new contract expected to be signed in next months
    I would bet that if next year another 12-14 Su-30SM are delivered, there will be 4 for the Navy and then 8-10 for the VKS
    After that , in 2020 or 2021 until 2025, the Navy should start receiving more aircraft once it has two brand new squadrons operating and the following just should be a simple replacement of Su-24 machines by Su-30 in already existing squadrons

    Apparently, at this moment the VKS does not need too many planes after completing the Kursk regiment.
    At least no more regiments have been announced (which would be totally new).
    The only combat unit that has MiG-29 is Yerevan and it is not clear if there they will receive one squadron (or all) of the remaining MiG-29SMT from Kursk or perhaps could receive also Su-30SM.
    Anyway, this does not seem to be in a hurry since Yerevan has renewed its MiG-29 park with repaired machines and should hold with them at least until 2020

    For the moment, only Millerovo should receive some more Su-30SM for complete the theorical number of 24 and Besovets will also need a "zveno" when receives all the Su-35 of the endowment.
    Perhaps Lipetsk also receives a couple of additional Su-30SM, since until now it only has 4
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    George1

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  George1 on Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:22 pm

    @AMCXXL bmpd article says that probably a new contract has already been signed for Su-30SMs

    The 14th Guards Fighter Aviation Regiment in Kursk received four more Su-30SM fighters

    The press service of the Western Military District reported on September 10, 2018 that the link of the Su-30SM fighter aircraft entered the combat composition of the aviation regiment of the Western Military District (ZVO), based in the Kursk region. Fighter pilots received four multipurpose fighter aircraft of the "4 ++" generation at the Irkut plant and flew in one day from the airfield in the Irkutsk region.

    In 2017, the first air squadron of the Kursk Aviation Regiment was completed. At present, the rearmament of the military unit is almost complete. Fighters MiG-29SMT, which replaced the fighter of a new generation, will continue to carry combat duty to protect the state border along with a new type of aircraft in 2018. The aircraft fleet of the regiment will be fully re-equipped before the end of this year. In total, it will include a couple of Su-30SM fighters.



    The bmpd comment. Thus, the Fourteenth Guards Fighter Aviation Regiment of the 105th Mixed Aviation Division of the 6th Leningrad Red Banner Army Air Force and Air Defense of the Western Military District at the airfield Khalino (Kursk) received the next four Su-30SM aircraft builders built for the Russian Civil Aviation Commission in Irkutsk (IAZ) of PJSC Irkut Corporation (part of United Aircraft Corporation) and made a separate transfer from Irkutsk According to known data, the flight was actually made on September 8. The aircraft have red board numbers "57", "58", "59" and "60" (registration numbers RF-81768, RF-81769, RF-81770 and RF-81771 respectively, the alleged serial numbers with 10MK5 1517 for 10MK5 1520). The numbers and inscriptions on the airplanes are plotted according to a new standard scheme for the Russian military aerospace, which looks very ill-considered.

       Earlier, in the course of 2018, six new Su-30SM fighters built for the Russian Civil Aviation Commission at the IAZ for the state defense order of 2018 arrived in Kursk in the course of 2018 - on April 27, four fighter jets with red onboard numbers from "51" to " 54 "(serial numbers from 10MK5 1509 to 10MK5 1512), and on July 3 came two more aircraft with red onboard numbers" 55 "and" 56 "(the probable serial numbers are 10MK5 1515 and 10MK5 1516). Until then, in 2017, the 14th Guards Fighter Aviation Regiment received 12 Su-30SM fighters built by the IAZ (red side plates from 71 to 82), which allowed rearming the MiG-29SMT with one squadron of the regiment. Now re-equipment is being carried out on the Su-30SM and the second squadron. The total number of Su-30SM in the regiment reached 22 units.

    Recall that in total since 2012, for the Ministry of Defense of Russia, 116 Su-30SM aircraft were contracted, of which 88 are intended for the Russian Air Force (VCS), and another 28 for the Russian Navy Aviation. Taking into account the new fighter planes received, in the framework of the signed contracts, in the framework of the signed contracts, so far there have been 90 Su-30SM fighters in total, and for Naval Aviation - 22. Another eight Su-30SM fighters were delivered to Kazakhstan in 2015-2017. Apparently, an additional contract was concluded already within the framework of the adopted State Arms Program for 2018-2027 for the supply of additional military aircraft of the Su-30SM fighter aircraft to the Russian Air Force and the Russian Navy.

       Earlier, the former Deputy Minister of Defense of Russia Yuri Borisov said that the production program of the IAZ provides for delivery to the Ministry of Defense in 2018, 14 Su-30SM aircraft, including 12 for the aerospace and two for the Naval Aviation. Thus, to date under the program of 2018, the IAZ delivered 10 SU-30SM planes to the military aviation center, and two planes - to the Naval Aviation (the latter two with the blue 76 and 77 onboard numbers arrived on July 1 in the 72nd Aviation base of aviation of the Baltic Fleet to the Chernyakhovsk airfield in the Kaliningrad Region).

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3337538.html[/b]
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:27 am


    I told you guys, Su-30SM will be Russia's equivalent of F-16: mass produced affordable fighter jet that will be used for everything. With slight difference that it's a massive twin-engine monster. thumbsup

    They really made best of what was once a bad situation. By going with Su-30SM they exploited price drop generated by contract with India for Su-30MKI version.
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    George1

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  George1 on Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:02 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    I told you guys, Su-30SM will be Russia's equivalent of F-16: mass produced affordable fighter jet that will be used for everything. With slight difference that it's a massive twin-engine monster. thumbsup

    They really made best of what was once a bad situation. By going with Su-30SM they exploited price drop generated by contract with India for Su-30MKI version.

    USA also has F/A-18E/F as mass produced for the Navy Very Happy
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    AMCXXL

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  AMCXXL on Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:56 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    I told you guys, Su-30SM will be Russia's equivalent of F-16: mass produced affordable fighter jet that will be used for everything. With slight difference that it's a massive twin-engine monster. thumbsup

    They really made best of what was once a bad situation. By going with Su-30SM they exploited price drop generated by contract with India for Su-30MKI version.

    Of course not, the Flanker family is the "equivalent" to F-15 family if it is possible to compare Russian planes with Western ones

    Su-30 can asume the paper of F-15E strike-Eagle and Su-27/35 the with the classic F-15

    Russia has declined the use of ligth figthers , F-16 probably cannot be compared even with MiG-29 that would be closer to an classic F-18

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