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    Su-30 for Russian Air Force

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    franco

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  franco on Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:07 am

    First 4 Su-30SM delivered this year arrive at Kursk. Will start forming the 2nd squadron.

    https://sdelanounas.rblogs/106560/

    Austin

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  Austin on Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:21 am

    Austin wrote:What does that video says , Is it firing the latest RVV-MD WVRAAM ?

    DOes any ones have speccs of BARS-R ? I read it has higher average power compared to BARS-M on Indian MKI ?

    Thanks

    Can any one answer the above query ? Thanks
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:07 pm

    Bars R is probably around similar performance to latest variant of Bars M, in that it has detection ratings of about 300km for 3m^2 targets, but uses mostly of Russian origin components compared to Bars M that was more tailored to India's needs.
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    Isos

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  Isos on Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:42 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Bars R is probably around similar performance to latest variant of Bars M, in that it has detection ratings of about 300km for 3m^2 targets, but uses mostly of Russian origin components compared to Bars M that was more tailored to India's needs.

    On wiki they quote a source that says Bars M has a range of 140 head on against a mig-29. They also say 400 km detection range and 200 km tracking range. But it is for sure better than 140km against a mig. The radar is a last generation PESA and with a very big antena. Real numbers are state secrets but it probably something like you said.

    What for sure is bad is the range of missiles. Having a radar with 400 km range but missiles that can go only 80km isn't good. They should start upgrading their su-30 fleets for r-77M. They are limited by the missiles so even a cheaper mig-29M could destroy them with the same missiles but with a cheaper and less capable radar.

    First see doesn't mean first shoot. Unless they have r-37 or r-77M.
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    medo

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:04 pm

    Bars-R radar was from the beginning modified for RuAF needs. Bars-M and BARS-R have the same Chelnok transmitter, which could operate at 7 kW peak power, but in export Bars-M peak power is limited to 4-5 kW. Russian Bars-R most probably have newer more capable processors, so it is for sure more capable than export radar and have longer range. After all RuAF Su-30SM detect F-22 in Syria at range longer than 40 km, what is far longer range than the one expected for Bars-M radar.
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    Hole

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  Hole on Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:22 pm

    The range of the missile depends on the speed and flight level of the aircraft. An R-27RE fired from an Su-30SM with a speed of M1,5 at an height of 12.000 m will fly longer than a R-27RE fired from an MiG-29 at lower Speed/height. If you can see further, you can bring yourself in a better position.
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    George1

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  George1 on Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:54 am

    franco wrote:First 4 Su-30SM delivered this year arrive at Kursk. Will start forming the 2nd squadron.

    https://sdelanounas.rblogs/106560/

    do we know where the MiG-29SMT fighters of Kursk regiment will go?


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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:34 am

    Isos wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:Bars R is probably around similar performance to latest variant of Bars M, in that it has detection ratings of about 300km for 3m^2 targets, but uses mostly of Russian origin components compared to Bars M that was more tailored to India's needs.

    On wiki they quote a source that says Bars M has a range of 140 head on against a mig-29. They also say 400 km detection range and 200 km tracking range. But it is for sure better than 140km against a mig. The radar is a last generation PESA and with a very big antena. Real numbers are state secrets but it probably something like you said.

    What for sure is bad is the range of missiles. Having a radar with 400 km range but missiles that can go only 80km isn't good. They should start upgrading their su-30 fleets for r-77M. They are limited by the missiles so even a cheaper mig-29M could destroy them with the same missiles but with a cheaper and less capable radar.

    First see doesn't mean first shoot. Unless they have r-37 or r-77M.

    90's data. Here is from more recent sources. I found it from other forum



    As for missile, later variants of R-27 had longer range. Over 100km.

    eridan

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  eridan on Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:20 am

    Hole wrote:The range of the missile depends on the speed and flight level of the aircraft. An R-27RE fired from an Su-30SM with a speed of M1,5 at an height of 12.000 m will fly longer than a R-27RE fired from an MiG-29 at lower Speed/height. If you can see further, you can bring yourself in a better position.

    In aim-120 case, the difference between a mach 1.5 launch and mach 0.8 launch at 10 km altitude will be 15-ish percent, range wise. Same 0.8 mach launch at 5 km altitude will make it reach 28% less. Same 1.5 mach launch will make it reach 29% less.

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    franco

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  franco on Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:00 pm

    George1 wrote:
    franco wrote:First 4 Su-30SM delivered this year arrive at Kursk. Will start forming the 2nd squadron.

    https://sdelanounas.rblogs/106560/

    do we know where the MiG-29SMT fighters of Kursk regiment will go?

    No, but should soon. Conversion will be complete by end of year.
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    Isos

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  Isos on Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:13 pm

    franco wrote:
    George1 wrote:
    franco wrote:First 4 Su-30SM delivered this year arrive at Kursk. Will start forming the 2nd squadron.

    https://sdelanounas.rblogs/106560/

    do we know where the MiG-29SMT fighters of Kursk regiment will go?

    No, but should soon. Conversion will be complete by end of year.

    Maybe in Syria for permanent location. Now the syrian base is part of russian air bases and the fighters there are meant to be returned to russia so they will need permanent fighters there.

    Syria also has mig so they can improve logistic and maintenance of syrian mig too which would increase the power of syria so increase the protection of russian bases in syria.
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    George1

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  George1 on Tue May 01, 2018 1:31 am

    And the bmpd article on these 4 Su-30SMs

    Spotters report that on April 26-27, 2018 four new Su-30SM fighter planes built for the Russian Air Force at the Irkutsk Aviation Plant (IAP) of PJSC Irkut Corporation (part of United Aircraft Corporation) departed from Irkutsk. The planes, presumably, have red board numbers from "51" to "54" (the probable serial numbers are from 10MK5 1509 to 10MK5 1512) and entered the 14th Guards Fighter Aviation Regiment of the 105th Mixed Aviation Division of the 6th Leningrad Red Banner Army Air Force and Air Defense West military district at the airfield Khalino (Kursk), marking the beginning of the rearmament of the second squadron of this regiment from the "Algerian" fighters MiG-29SMT.



    These are the first Su-30SM fighters built by the IAP in the 2018 program. Earlier, Deputy Minister of Defense of Russia Yuri Borisov said that the production program of the IAP provides delivery to the Ministry of Defense in 2018, 14 Su-30SM aircraft, including 12 for VKS, and two for the Russian Navy.

    Recall that in total since 2012, for the Ministry of Defense of Russia, 116 Su-30SM aircraft were contracted, of which 88 are intended for the Russian Air Force (VCS), and another 28 for the Russian Navy Aviation. Taking into account the four new fighter planes received, in the framework of the signed contracts so far, in total, 84 Su-30SM fighters were obtained, and Marine Aviation - 20. Thus, in 2015-2017, another eight Su-30SM fighters were delivered to Kazakhstan. According to available information, in 2018 a new contract is expected to be signed within the framework of the adopted State Arms Program for 2018-2027 for the supply of additional Su-30SM fighters to the Russian military aerospace and navy.

    The 14th Guards Fighter Aviation Regiment in Khalino (Kursk) received 12 Su-30SM fighters built by the IAP in 2017 (the red side plates from "71" to "82"), which allowed rearming the MiG-29SMT with one squadron of the regiment. Now rearmament has begun on the Su-30SM and the second squadron.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3181293.html


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    Militarov

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  Militarov on Wed May 02, 2018 12:09 am

    SU-30SMs are still being delivered with French Thales-Thomas VEH 3022 HUDs Suspect
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    Isos

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  Isos on Wed May 02, 2018 1:17 am

    Militarov wrote:SU-30SMs are still being delivered with French Thales-Thomas VEH 3022 HUDs Suspect

    The SM1 upgrade is supposed to make them 100% russian. But it's maybe cheaper to buy some parts abroad as they don't need to develop it specially if it is not a critical part like radar or IFF.
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    Hole

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  Hole on Wed May 02, 2018 11:34 am

    Isn´t there a Thales factory in Russia?
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    Militarov

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  Militarov on Sat May 19, 2018 9:32 pm

    Hole wrote:Isn´t there a Thales factory in Russia?

    Not to my knowledge.

    Even if there is... doesnt change a thing.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  Militarov on Sat May 19, 2018 9:33 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Militarov wrote:SU-30SMs are still being delivered with French Thales-Thomas VEH 3022 HUDs Suspect

    The SM1 upgrade is supposed to make them 100% russian. But it's maybe cheaper to buy some parts abroad as they don't need to develop it specially if it is not a critical part like radar or IFF.

    And HUD is not critical Very Happy?
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    Isos

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  Isos on Sat May 19, 2018 11:09 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    Militarov wrote:SU-30SMs are still being delivered with French Thales-Thomas VEH 3022 HUDs Suspect

    The SM1 upgrade is supposed to make them 100% russian. But it's maybe cheaper to buy some parts abroad as they don't need to develop it specially if it is not a critical part like radar or IFF.

    And HUD is not critical Very Happy?

    Well, it only shows informations to the pilots. It's far less critical than engines or radars. Once you have it inside the fighter you don't care about it anymore if it wirks it will work for the entire fighter's life.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  Militarov on Sat May 19, 2018 11:23 pm

    Isos wrote:

    Well, it only shows informations to the pilots. It's far less critical than engines or radars. Once you have it inside the fighter you don't care about it anymore if it wirks it will work for the entire fighter's life.

    HUDs require extensive maintenance actually, its quite complex device. Expensive too, to say at least.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Sun May 20, 2018 4:29 am

    The range of the missile depends on the speed and flight level of the aircraft. An R-27RE fired from an Su-30SM with a speed of M1,5 at an height of 12.000 m will fly longer than a R-27RE fired from an MiG-29 at lower Speed/height. If you can see further, you can bring yourself in a better position.

    Why did you say it that way?

    A MiG-29 can fly just as fast and just as high as a Flanker... the latter has a larger radar, which means they... on their own... could detect targets at greater ranges, but it has no way of firing missiles to greater ranges than the MiG.

    In fact during normal operations the MiG and the Flanker would be told to take off to intercept a detected threat together and could both pretty much accelerate and fly together for the intercept... the Flanker would probably pick up the target first on their radar but by the time it could launch a missile the Fulcrum would also have detected the target and also be able to fire with the same missile to the same distance...

    In Russian operations both would be vectored to a lunch position and neither would use their radar to give away their position and both would launch at the same time.

    The only real difference is that the Flanker can fly for longer periods of time to greater distances and carry more missiles...

    HUDs require extensive maintenance actually, its quite complex device. Expensive too, to say at least.

    New helmet mounted sights are going to make them less critical... plus Russian companies make HUDs too.


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