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    Su-30 for Russian Air Force

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    George1
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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  George1 on Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:16 pm

    medo wrote:I wonder if Russian MoD will also buy more Su-30M2 in KNAAPO for two seater trainer.

    I think they will since the first 4 were intended for trainers for Su-27SM3

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  TR1 on Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:23 pm

    medo wrote:I wonder if Russian MoD will also buy more Su-30M2 in KNAAPO for two seater trainer.

    Hopefully not with N-001.

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  George1 on Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:14 am

    http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=ru&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://lenta.ru/news/2011/11/10/su30m2/&usg=ALkJrhhphDHzornsvd6eKU7rk59xH2WQPA


    The airbase in the Krasnodar Territory will receive ten Su-30M2


    Air Base of the Southern Military District, stationed in the Krasnodar region, until the end of 2011 will receive a ten Su-30M2, said in a press release from the Ministry of Defense of Russia. In the early summer of this year, AFB has already delivered two of the aircraft. Through the delivery of new equipment in 2011, Aviation Park Krasnodar database updated by half.

    About what kind of an air base in question was not specified. Probably refers to the 6972 th Air Base of the 4th Army Air Force and Air Defense Forces, based at the airfield Krymsk. The composition of the fleet consists of the base Su-27.

    Earlier it was reported that the compound and part of the Eastern Military District received more than one hundred units of new and upgraded aircraft and helicopters. In particular, the troops received two Su-30M2 and 46 Su-27SM. Among the helicopter parts were transferred to the Ka-52 "Alligator", Mi-8AMTSh, Ka-226, Mi-26, "Ansat" and Mi-28N "Night Hunter".

    Factory testing of the Su-30M2 was completed in September 2010, a few months later the plane was the acceptance test. Su-30M2 is based on the Su-30MK2 and optimized to attack ground and sea targets. From the basic version of the Su-30M2 long-range flight is different and more sophisticated on-board equipment.

    Su-30M2 is capable of speeds up to 2.1 thousand kilometers per hour, and its combat radius of more than 1.5 thousand kilometers. The Su-30 is armed with 30-millimeter cannon, and has 12 suspension points for missiles and bombs.


    Any info about new Su-30M2 deliveries?

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  Sujoy on Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:54 am

    Under the contract, Irkut Corporation will build for Russia’s Ministry of Defense 30 planes of this type by 2015.

    But why did the Defense Ministry choose the Su-30’s....?


    The Su-30, properly speaking, is an entire family of aircraft and the most famous Russian-made (not to be confused with Soviet-made) fighter plane outside of Russia. It was developed in the Soviet Union on the basis of the Su-27UB combat trainer aircraft as a command plane for Air Defense air regiments flying ordinary Su-27 interceptor aircraft.

    In 1993, its export version, the Su-30K, was developed, sparking record demand and the sale of several hundred planes.

    The family is further subdivided into two parts: the “Chinese” Su-30MKK/MK2, which were produced in Komsomolsk-on-Amur and exported to Venezuela, Indonesia, Uganda, Vietnam, and of course China; and the “Indian” Su-30MKI, manufactured in Irkutsk and purchased by India, Algeria and Malaysia.

    The model ordered by the Russian military is a “localized” version of the “Indian” Su-30MKI. Earlier, Komsomolsk-on-Amur delivered to the Air Force four “localized” Su-30MK2’s.

    As a basic platform for the multirole heavy fighter aircraft, the Su-30MKI is remarkable primarily for its universality. It boasts a so-called “open architecture”, making it relatively easy to add new systems in the basic electronic equipment and to use advanced guided weapons (supplied by different manufacturers).

    The Su-30MKI sports a Russian radar and optic locator, French navigation and heads-up display systems, Israeli EW and weapon-guidance systems, and Indian computers.

    The “Chinese” line is based on a different logic that prescribes parallel installation of new systems that fall short of full integration.

    Most likely, the military is attracted by how easy it is to add different weapons and equipment to the Su-30MKI, transforming it into an attack fighter-bomber, a heavy interceptor aircraft, or something else.

    It is hard to pinpoint who exactly ordered these 30 aircraft. The contract was signed by Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov and Irkut President Alexei Fedorov. After the signing ceremony, Serdyukov commented that the planes would “increase the Air Force’s combat power.”

    By contrast, Fedorov went on record as saying last summer that the Defense Ministry was going to order 40 aircraft. Later the press reported, citing the Irkutsk aircraft plant’s general director Alexander Veprev, that the deliveries were likely to be made in two installments: the first 28 aircraft were intended for the Air Force and another 12 as an option for naval aviation. Air Force C-in-C Alexander Zelin confirmed the figure of 28 in fall 2011.

    As we can see, the first batch of Sukhoi-30’s has been purchased. The remaining 12, as some military sources intimated to the press, were intended for the Black Sea Fleet’s naval aviation.

    Given that naval aviation has seen cuts in combat aircraft, it seems logical to reinforce it with heavy Su-30SM two-seaters that are efficient both in air-to-air combat and against ground and surface targets.

    Thus far, however, there is no mention of plans to buy the Su-30 for the Navy. Possibly the option will be realized later.

    There is another simple explanation for choice of the Su-30MKI. Irkut has been churning out these planes for 10 years thanks to its completely streamlined production method. This means that its products are of high quality, relatively cheap (which pleases the Defense Ministry in particular) and will be supplied on time.

    It is one thing if, in order to make 30 aircraft, you have to breathe life into an idling plant, to fine-tune (or develop anew) your technological method, buy additional equipment, and – still worse – hire personnel. But it’s quite another if you have been manufacturing standardized aircraft for years and years and can easily divert your workforce to produce an “improved” modification for your own country’s Air Force. The cost of this batch on the side is dramatically lower.

    This approach (buying quickly and on the cheap what can be produced immediately) has been growing in popularity in the Russian military. We have mentioned the Su-30M2 combat trainer aircraft intended for the Russian Air Force. The same goes for the carrier-based MiG-29K, which in its present form was developed for the Indian Navy.

    This approach is logical in its own way. The military expects certain fundamentally new models that are being tested with some degree of success. The Air Force is eying the T-50, the fifth-generation fighter aircraft, and the Navy has been trying to get into shape its Lada project involving the construction of non-nuclear submarines. The Land Forces have boycotted the purchases of all currently existing armor models, urging manufacturers to invent something totally new.

    In the meantime, the Armed Forces will buy cheap, mass-produced, well-equipped, military hardware, like the Su-30SM.

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  TR1 on Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:35 pm

    George1 wrote:http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=ru&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://lenta.ru/news/2011/11/10/su30m2/&usg=ALkJrhhphDHzornsvd6eKU7rk59xH2WQPA


    The airbase in the Krasnodar Territory will receive ten Su-30M2


    Air Base of the Southern Military District, stationed in the Krasnodar region, until the end of 2011 will receive a ten Su-30M2, said in a press release from the Ministry of Defense of Russia. In the early summer of this year, AFB has already delivered two of the aircraft. Through the delivery of new equipment in 2011, Aviation Park Krasnodar database updated by half.

    About what kind of an air base in question was not specified. Probably refers to the 6972 th Air Base of the 4th Army Air Force and Air Defense Forces, based at the airfield Krymsk. The composition of the fleet consists of the base Su-27.

    Earlier it was reported that the compound and part of the Eastern Military District received more than one hundred units of new and upgraded aircraft and helicopters. In particular, the troops received two Su-30M2 and 46 Su-27SM. Among the helicopter parts were transferred to the Ka-52 "Alligator", Mi-8AMTSh, Ka-226, Mi-26, "Ansat" and Mi-28N "Night Hunter".

    Factory testing of the Su-30M2 was completed in September 2010, a few months later the plane was the acceptance test. Su-30M2 is based on the Su-30MK2 and optimized to attack ground and sea targets. From the basic version of the Su-30M2 long-range flight is different and more sophisticated on-board equipment.

    Su-30M2 is capable of speeds up to 2.1 thousand kilometers per hour, and its combat radius of more than 1.5 thousand kilometers. The Su-30 is armed with 30-millimeter cannon, and has 12 suspension points for missiles and bombs.


    Any info about new Su-30M2 deliveries?

    Old news, that was a journalistic mistake. The planes were Su-27SM3 and a few Su-30M2.

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  George1 on Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:46 pm

    Κaliningrand enclave will also receive Su-30s? Or other type of aircraft?

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  George1 on Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:36 pm

    Su-35 is also a multirole fighter. Su-30 is a 2-seater airborne command aircraft as well. I think Su-30 complements Su-35. Just as EA-18G complements FA-18E/F in US Navy

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  TR1 on Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:52 pm

    The Growler is a specialized EW aircraft, the Su-30 is not.

    From what we have seen the Su-34 is the likely candidate for EW aircraft in RuAF.

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:33 am

    In my opinion RuAF ordered both Su-35 and Su-30SM in the same way, to have single seat Su-35 air defense fighter and two seat miltirole Su-30SM fighter. I think Mig-29M2 or Mig-35 will also be two seat multirole fighter.

    To maximise ground attack capacity their fighters often operated in a swing capacity, so they would start operations as fighters to clear the skies of enemy aircraft, and once that was done to a reasonable level they would switch to dumb bomb loads and concentrate on enemy ground forces... this was with the Mig-21, and Mig-23 etc.

    The Su-35 is not just a fighter, it is a fully multi role aircraft and fully capable of carrying a guided air to ground load or an dedicated air to air load depending on its mission.

    The main reason for the Su-30SM purchases were stated at the time, which was there was no two seat Su-35 operational trainer, so the Su-30SMs would be used as operational trainers and also a range of other roles because both aircraft are fully multirole types.

    For the Mig-35 and the Mig-29M2 there is no need for another aircraft for operational training... they will most likely (if they buy 48 fighters) then 8 will likely be 2 seaters and the remaining 40 will be single seat aircraft.

    In the swing role a modern Mig 29M2/35 or Su 35 or Su-30SM is both far more capable than previous generations of Russian/Soviet fighters/interceptors, but are also far more capable in the swing role, being able to carry a range of guided air to ground weapons.

    As George1 points out the original Su-30 was used exclusively by the PVO as an interceptor/command type aircraft where it could use its large radar and dedicated radar operator to manage air interceptions where ground radar coverage was sparse. Very simply the Su-30 would operate with its radar scanning for targets while a group of fighters with lessor radars... Su-27s or perhaps Mig-29s would operate with it with their radars turned off, though they could use their IRSTs silently to confirm target information transmitted from the Su-30s.

    In a real conflict you would not use the Su-30SM for training, you would equip it with AAMs and also equip your Su-35s with AAMs and meet the enemy. You would likely send in Mig-29M2s or Mig-35s as well as Su-25s to hit ground targets on the front line, while the Su-34 would be hitting critical targets deep within enemy territory.

    Once the enemy air power had been degraded either directly in combat with the Flankers and Fulcrums, and indirectly by Su-34 attacks on large airfields as well as cruise missile attacks of course, then the Su-35s and Su-30SMs would go to CAP and then SEAD and then strike missions as the fight moves into enemy territory.

    I have read they were looking at a Tu-22M3 based EW aircraft, but they decided in the end to use the Il-76 as an EW aircraft because of the extra power it could generate. For SEAD and other tactical missions an EW model of the Su-24 would currently be the in service aircraft, though I have no doubt there will be an Su-34 model if there is not one already.

    There were plenty of rumours about the Su-34 in Georgia in 2008 after the Tu-22M3R was shot down, but I have not seen anything official.


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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  Sujoy on Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:13 am

    George1 wrote:Su-35 is also a multirole fighter. Su-30 is a 2-seater airborne command aircraft as well. I think Su-30 complements Su-35. Just as EA-18G complements FA-18E/F in US Navy

    SU 30 is also a multi role aircraft . They are been purchased by the RuAF as a stop gap arrangement before the induction of the T 50 . Once the T 50 are inducted they will perform the air superiority role currently being carried out by the SU 30 & the SU 35 will carry out the air dominance role.

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:15 pm

    No.

    The Su-30 is not a multirole aircraft, it is described as a long range interceptor fighter.

    The Su-30M and later models added multirole capability with radar upgrades that allowed the engagement of ground targets with guided weapons.


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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  Sujoy on Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:12 pm

    I was referring to the SU 30 SM of the RuAF . The earlier variant SU 30 is no longer a part of the RuAF.

    The SU 30 SM is basically the Russian variant of the famous SU 30 MKI and are therefore multi role just like it's Indian counterpart . With the exception of the Israeli avionics on board the Indian SU 30 MKI ( SU 30 SM sports Russian avionics) there are no differences between the two. Check these links below from RIA NOVOSTI


    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120322/172317814.html

    http://en.rian.ru/infographics/20120301/171609225.html

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:51 pm

    The Su-35 is not just a fighter, it is a fully multi role aircraft and fully capable of carrying a guided air to ground load or an dedicated air to air load depending on its mission.

    Of course Su-35 is fully multi role aircraft, but considering RuAF is buying Su-34 and larger number of Su-30SM, which will also create their independent squadrons, you could be sure single seat Su-35 as well as PAK FA will be used in RuAF as dedicated air defense fighters, while ground attacks and multi role missions will be reserved for Su-34 and Su-30SM, who also have very long range.


    As George1 points out the original Su-30 was used exclusively by the PVO as an interceptor/command type aircraft where it could use its large radar and dedicated radar operator to manage air interceptions where ground radar coverage was sparse. Very simply the Su-30 would operate with its radar scanning for targets while a group of fighters with lessor radars... Su-27s or perhaps Mig-29s would operate with it with their radars turned off, though they could use their IRSTs silently to confirm target information transmitted from the Su-30s.


    RuAF/IADS have only 6 of those Su-30. Also after modernization Mig-31BM is better suited plane for this type of job. Even basic Mig-31 operate in groups, where 1 is command and they share radar picture and data through datalink. Su-35 and PAK FA will also work in the same way in Russian IADS.

    Su-30SM will be as two seat multi role aircraft be better suited for RuAF operations outside Russian air space, where it could with its big Bars or Irbis radar also work as command plane for smaller Migs, as well as interceptor, SEAD platform or ground attack plane.



    To maximise ground attack capacity their fighters often operated in a swing capacity, so they would start operations as fighters to clear the skies of enemy aircraft, and once that was done to a reasonable level they would switch to dumb bomb loads and concentrate on enemy ground forces... this was with the Mig-21, and Mig-23 etc.

    Depend on the war itself. If there is no contact between ground forces, than your air force will first clear the sky of enemy planes and than attack ground targets. But if it start with ground forces contact, than your AF have to support your ground forces immediately although the sky is full of enemy planes. In that case it is fine to have dedicated AD fighters, who protect ground attacking planes.

    Of course, if Russia is attacked, than all planes able to carry and use AAMs will be at first used for AD duties.


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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:40 pm

    I was referring to the SU 30 SM of the RuAF . The earlier variant SU 30 is no longer a part of the RuAF.

    They haven't crashed, why do you think they are withdrawn?

    The PVO had about a dozen or so, I don't think their requirements have changed since.

    The SU 30 SM is basically the Russian variant of the famous SU 30 MKI and are therefore multi role just like it's Indian counterpart . With the exception of the Israeli avionics on board the Indian SU 30 MKI ( SU 30 SM sports Russian avionics) there are no differences between the two. Check these links below from RIA NOVOSTI

    Smile I am familiar with the Su-30SM, I was talking about the Su-30.

    Of course Su-35 is fully multi role aircraft, but considering RuAF is buying Su-34 and larger number of Su-30SM, which will also create their independent squadrons, you could be sure single seat Su-35 as well as PAK FA will be used in RuAF as dedicated air defense fighters, while ground attacks and multi role missions will be reserved for Su-34 and Su-30SM, who also have very long range.

    Do you think the Russian AF will spend a small fortune on new multirole aircraft and new guided weapons and then simply continue with single role training? If single seat F-16s can engage ground targets then why can't Su-35s?

    As the force shrinks in numbers then units will be reduced and combined. Units that operated Su-17s and Mig-27s are already dispanded, but front line aviation needs fighters and aircraft with attack capability.

    With modern systems and modern weapons the Su-35 should be able to engage air and ground targets at the same time.

    Complex missions like fly to an area and engage any enemy ground forces and then provide top cover for the aircraft coming after you become possible.

    RuAF/IADS have only 6 of those Su-30. Also after modernization Mig-31BM is better suited plane for this type of job. Even basic Mig-31 operate in groups, where 1 is command and they share radar picture and data through datalink. Su-35 and PAK FA will also work in the same way in Russian IADS.

    Su-30 was cheaper than a Mig-31 and like a mini AWACS offers the ability to provide AWACS functions to an air group away from ground radar control. Operating with a group of Su-27s it would fit in much better than the Mig-31 because it is basically an Su-27UB with a better radar fitted.

    Su-30SM will be as two seat multi role aircraft be better suited for RuAF operations outside Russian air space, where it could with its big Bars or Irbis radar also work as command plane for smaller Migs, as well as interceptor, SEAD platform or ground attack plane.

    Su-30SM is a different aircraft optimised for a range of different roles. The Su-30 compliments the Su-27 as a big brother that makes the Su-27s more effective and more useful in the single role of air to air combat because neither have nor need guided air to ground capability.

    The Su-30SM on the other hand, as you both point out is a fully multirole aircraft as a junior to the multirole Su-35.

    Very simply the Su-30 is for the PVO which doesn't care about ground attack, it is air defence and so its only use is mini awacs.
    The Su-30SM on the other hand is not for the PVO, its primary use is a cheaper two seat Su-35 that can be used as an operational trainer, and also as a multirole aircraft especially where a two seat configuration is useful.

    Of course proper 5th gen avionics should reduce the pilots workload to the point where a two seat Su-35 or PAK FA should not be needed... which means the only real reason for buying the Su-30SM is operational trainer.

    Of course, if Russia is attacked, than all planes able to carry and use AAMs will be at first used for AD duties.

    The early model Mig-29s and Su-27s would carry air to air weapons because they are not well equipped to hit ground targets. The newer and upgraded models however are fully multirole so a flight could be launched against an enemy ground breakthrough threat with air to ground weapons but also air to air weapons so both air and ground targets can be engaged as they are found. There will be some aircraft in the flight group with only AAMs, and there might be aircraft within the group with only defensive AAMs, but the whole idea of multirole is to be adaptable and do both missions at once.

    Otherwise there is no point in multirole.


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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  Sujoy on Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:26 am

    GarryB wrote:They haven't crashed, why do you think they are withdrawn?

    The PVO had about a dozen or so, I don't think their requirements have changed since.

    Neither crashed nor withdrawn , simply upgraded.The original SU 30 was a testbed fighter . They have now all been upgraded to Su 30 SM or SU 30 M2

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  TR1 on Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:03 am

    Sujoy wrote:
    GarryB wrote:They haven't crashed, why do you think they are withdrawn?

    The PVO had about a dozen or so, I don't think their requirements have changed since.

    Neither crashed nor withdrawn , simply upgraded.The original SU 30 was a testbed fighter . They have now all been upgraded to Su 30 SM or SU 30 M2

    The original Su-30s (of which there are barely a handful) are in the same state that they were delivered, so no upgrades I am afraid. SM program was only carried out on Su-27 and Su-27UB.
    Su-30M2 is the domestic Su-30MK basically, so the new Su-30SMs will be quite a bit more sophisticated.

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  Sujoy on Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:34 pm

    TR1 wrote:The original Su-30s (of which there are barely a handful) are in the same state that they were delivered, so no upgrades I am afraid. SM program was only carried out on Su-27 and Su-27UB.
    Su-30M2 is the domestic Su-30MK basically, so the new Su-30SMs will be quite a bit more sophisticated.

    So why are they keeping these aircrafts ? Interceptor roles are being carried out by MIG 31 and MIG 29 is the air superiority aircraft . As I said in my previous post that SU 30 was just a testbed aircraft . It was an evolution of the SU 27 & sometime during the mid nineties it was christened Su 30. Also Irkut supplies to India ( among others) & Knappo supplies to China ( among others ) . Who did the RuAF purchase the SU 30 from ? For what ? Simply to serve as a long range interceptor ? That would be strange because when India wanted to purchase only the SU 30 , Irkut offered the Su 30 MKI a truly multi role aircraft . This makes sense because you get a tremendous bang for your buck .

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:51 pm

    Do you think the Russian AF will spend a small fortune on new multirole aircraft and new guided weapons and then simply continue with single role training? If single seat F-16s can engage ground targets then why can't Su-35s?

    Of course Su-35 could engage all targets and is multi role, but that doesn't mean it will not be used for one main job. In Soviet times they have Air Force and Air Defense aviation with their own fighters. In Russia they join those two aviations together, but creating VKO (air and space defense), modernization of Mig-31 and single seat Su-35 and PAK FA could show a tendency, that Russia still want to have a core of independent air defense fighter units integrated in VKO. Their role will be primarily air defense and of course could also do ground attacks, when needed.

    Su-30SM squadrons could be part of regular RuAF, where they will work as true multi role fighter.



    but the whole idea of multirole is to be adaptable and do both missions at once.

    Multi role means, that plane could do various roles and missions, but not necessary at once. When plane is in dogfight, pilot will be concentrated on air combat and not on ground targets, however modern and multirole fighter is.

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  TR1 on Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:00 pm

    Sujoy wrote:
    TR1 wrote:The original Su-30s (of which there are barely a handful) are in the same state that they were delivered, so no upgrades I am afraid. SM program was only carried out on Su-27 and Su-27UB.
    Su-30M2 is the domestic Su-30MK basically, so the new Su-30SMs will be quite a bit more sophisticated.

    So why are they keeping these aircrafts ? Interceptor roles are being carried out by MIG 31 and MIG 29 is the air superiority aircraft . As I said in my previous post that SU 30 was just a testbed aircraft . It was an evolution of the SU 27 & sometime during the mid nineties it was christened Su 30. Also Irkut supplies to India ( among others) & Knappo supplies to China ( among others ) . Who did the RuAF purchase the SU 30 from ? For what ? Simply to serve as a long range interceptor ? That would be strange because when India wanted to purchase only the SU 30 , Irkut offered the Su 30 MKI a truly multi role aircraft . This makes sense because you get a tremendous bang for your buck .


    They received them back in the early 90s, keep in mind this was before the MKI was available.
    At least they are airworthy, the small batch of Su-35s that the RuAF got in the 90s is grounded.

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    Su-30 fighter in RuAF

    Post  GarryB on Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:00 pm

    Neither crashed nor withdrawn , simply upgraded.The original SU 30 was a testbed fighter . They have now all been upgraded to Su 30 SM or SU 30 M2

    That wouldn't make sense, the Su-30 were used by the PVO, the PVO would have no need for multirole aircraft... Sptifires and Hurricanes fighting the Battle of Britain were not fitted out for long range fuel tanks and 50kg bombs... they were interceptors, not strike aircraft.

    The original Su-30s (of which there are barely a handful) are in the same state that they were delivered, so no upgrades I am afraid. SM program was only carried out on Su-27 and Su-27UB.

    That makes sense... apart from an upgrade to make them compatible with newer AAMs like R-77 they were already well suited to their role.

    So why are they keeping these aircrafts ? Interceptor roles are being carried out by MIG 31 and MIG 29 is the air superiority aircraft

    The PVO has long operated a mix of aircraft including Mig-29s and Su-27s and Mig-31s. The Su-30 was intended to work with Mig-29s and especially Su-27s to give them the same independence as the Mig-31 has. The advantage of the Su-30 is that it is really just an Su-27UB with a better radar so you can base it with an Su-27 unit with no logistics problems at all.

    The PVO are not interested in ground targets so Mig-29SMT and Su-27SM and Su-30SM upgrades don't interest them much, it is FA or Frontal Aviation that could use multirole aircraft the most and why upgrade Su-30s they don't have when they have plenty of Su-27UBs to convert into multirole Su-30SMs.

    As I said in my previous post that SU 30 was just a testbed aircraft .

    No. It entered small scale service, they had about a dozen.

    It was an evolution of the SU 27 & sometime during the mid nineties it was christened Su 30.

    Not an evolution. It was a two seat Su-27... it was an Su-27UB with a better radar that acted like a cheap Mig-31 which at the time were the only interceptors that had a good enough radar to operate independently of ground control... the Mig-31 had the radar operator in the back as did the Su-30.

    Who did the RuAF purchase the SU 30 from ? For what ? Simply to serve as a long range interceptor ?

    The PVO or air defence arm of the Russian Air Force buys their own planes... The Tu-128 fiddler, the Su-9, Su-11, and Su-15 are PVO only aircraft that were dedicated interceptors. The Su-30 was a PVO plane. The later Su-30M was a multirole aircraft the rest of the Russian AF might be interested in and is buying now, but the Su-30 was and is an interception management aircraft.

    Before the Su-30 an interception by PVO Su-27s or Mig-29s would involve a GCI officer sitting in a van looking at radar screens showing data from ground based radar. With the Mig-31 the guy in the van was moved to the rear seat of the aircraft with a better view of the ground and low flying threats, and of course the Su-30 is the same thing... the guy from the van is in the back of the Su-30 and he directs the Su-27 or Mig-29 flight group to the targets and controls the fight.

    As I said before AWACS does not just mean airborne radar... that is AEW or airborne early warning. AWACS means airborne early warning and control... in other words the radar guy controls the engagements... the difference is that instead of the control guy sitting in a Sentry, he is in the back of an Su-30...

    That would be strange because when India wanted to purchase only the SU 30 , Irkut offered the Su 30 MKI a truly multi role aircraft . This makes sense because you get a tremendous bang for your buck .

    India probably wanted a heavy interceptor like an F-15C... which the Su-30 could pretty much emulate, and would have been cheaper and simpler. Obviously with an Su-30 in service instead of Su-30MKI then India would need to rely more on their Mirage 2000s in the strike role, and likely an SMT upgrade of the Mig-29s would have been more urgent.

    With the Su-30MKI they get a much more capable and sophisticated multirole aircraft.

    In Soviet times they have Air Force and Air Defense aviation with their own fighters.

    In Soviet times there was the PVO Strany which was a dedicated air defence force that was a branch of the Air Force.

    Now they have the new Aerospace Defence Force, which perform the air defence and space defence functions, yet they don't have their own interceptor aircraft.

    It appears that the interceptors remain with the Air Force but are under the control of the VKKO, so they would operate from Air Force airfields, but their direction and control would be from the Aerospace Defence forces.

    Their role will be primarily air defense and of course could also do ground attacks, when needed.

    I disagree, and agree at the same time... first you said that aircraft, while being multi role can be used operationally for single roles... which I agree with... just because a PAK FA can carry air to ground weapons doesn't mean it will always fly with air to ground weapons just in case they are needed. It will be operating on specific missions, so when it is on a SEAD mission then long range ARMs will fill the main weapon bays for many of the aircraft in the flight and the remainder will carry AAM to help protect the aircraft going after enemy SAMs and Radars. The primary mission is to defeat SAM sites and most aircraft involved in the mission will have weapons for that purpose, but some aircraft in the flight will focus on protecting the other aircraft by eliminating enemy air threats.

    The thing is however the VKO are not interested in enemy SAM systems or enemy tank units, the VKO will be looking exclusively for air threats and will scramble the aircraft under its control to intercept aircraft or cruise missiles or whatever. The Russian AF will allocate aircraft to the control of the VKO, so Mig-31s will be sitting fuelled and armed ready to take off at the first sign of a threat 24/7... even if they are upgraded BM models they wont be carrying ARMs or laser guided bombs, they will have AAMs. Equally in each of the 4 military districts there will be aircraft under the control of the VKO that might be Mig-29s or Su-27s or Su-35s for that matter and when they are operating under the control of the VKO they will be focussed on aerial targets. They will never be called off from an interception to engage an enemy tank unit that is breaking through somewhere... the Russian AF will have a range of aircraft and in fact the Army might even respond with Iskander type solutions to such a threat as it is rapid and they control it and there is no need for SEAD preparation when you use a missile.

    Su-30SM squadrons could be part of regular RuAF, where they will work as true multi role fighter.

    Yes, exactly. Su-30s would be useful to the VKO, but their focus on one role makes them less interesting to the rest of the Air Force. Their single focus of role will likely make them much cheaper for the VKO yet they do the job the VKO needs to get done.

    Multi role means, that plane could do various roles and missions, but not necessary at once. When plane is in dogfight, pilot will be concentrated on air combat and not on ground targets, however modern and multirole fighter is.

    Quite true, but an Su-35 on an intercept mission in enemy territory suddenly gets painted by an enemy SAM can launch ARMs if it is carrying some and then launch long range AAMs at the target it was supposed to be on the mission to find (ie troop transport, or AWACS etc etc).

    It is very unlikely that an interception mission turns into a mud moving exercise, however it is perfectly normal for Soviet fighters to deliver dumb bombs and then fly fighter cover as the rest of the flight deliver air to ground ordinance. In the case of a Mig-21 the effectiveness of the dumb bombs would not be that great and assuming 2 x 250kg bombs and one external fuel tank that leaves two AAMs and cannon for top cover.

    With an Su-35 a couple of laser guided 1,500kg bombs with plenty of wing stores for AAMs and jammer pods and other ordinance means multi role becomes much more viable.

    At least they are airworthy, the small batch of Su-35s that the RuAF got in the 90s is grounded.

    Indeed the PVO was like the Strategic Rocket Forces... even when there was no money they still managed to get funding to keep going.


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    George1
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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  George1 on Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:22 pm

    Su-30SM multi-role fighter performed its maiden flight

    Su-30SM fighter developed by Sukhoi design bureau and intended for Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) performed its first flight today; the jet took off from the airfield of Irkutsk Aviation Plant – the branch of Irkut Corporation (forming part of United Aircraft Corporation), said in the joint statement of Irkut Corporation and Sukhoi Company. AEX.ru

    The jet was piloted by the test-pilots of Sukhoi Company:

    - captain – Kostin Sergey Vladimirovich, class 1 test-pilot;
    - navigator – Malovechko Pavel Nikolaevich, the honored test-pilot of Russia.

    The sortie duration was 2 hours. The flight was successful.

    "The multi-role super-maneuverable Su-30SM fighter is the member of Su-30MK family. The specialists of Sukhoi design bureau tailored the jet in accordance with the requirements of Russian air forces in the area of radar, radio communication and state identification systems, catapult seat and some support systems. The aircraft armament has also been changed. The contract on delivery of 30 multi-role Su-30SM fighters during a period until 2015 was signed by Russian MoD and Irkut Corporation in March 2012", - said in the statement.

    The RF Minister of Defense, Anatoly Serdukov, stated that the acquisition of advanced super-maneuverable two-seated Su-30SM fighters will significantly improve the air forces’ combat strength. In addition, the jet’s capabilities will help improve the quality of pilot training, which is very important in light of increasing the purchase amount of the next-generation combat aircraft.

    http://www.ruaviation.com/news/2012/9/21/1225/

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:14 pm

    Good news.

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  SOC on Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:16 pm

    Same images, different link:

    http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/pictures-irkut-launches-su-30sm-test-campaign-376814/

    Also, the Su-30Ks were returned in 2003? No they weren't. 14 were stored on a ramp at Pune in May 2011, with the remaining 4 stored at Bareilly.

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  George1 on Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:08 pm

    Second Sukhoi Su-30SM Fighter Jet Joins Flight Tests

    A second Sukhoi Su-30SM advanced multirole fighter successfully carried out its maiden test flight on Monday, the manufacturer said.

    The first Su-30SM made its first flight on September 21 as part of a comprehensive testing program for the aircraft that has been upgraded for the Russian Air Force.

    “The second fighter jet has joined the flight tests,” the Irkut corporation said. “The flight continued for an hour and 40 minutes and went smoothly.”

    The Su-30SM is a two-seat version of the earlier Su-27UB and the MKI model supplied to India, and is capable of air-to-air and air-to-ground missions with a wide variety of precision-guided munitions.

    The aircraft features thrust-vectoring engines to enhance maneuverability and meets the Russian Air Force's specific requirements.

    Russia's Defense Ministry signed a contract with Irkut in March for the delivery of 30 Su-30SM multirole fighter aircraft by 2015.

    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120925/176217559.html

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    Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:38 pm

    This is nice to read that there are two Su-30SM flying. What about Su-30M2 from KNAAPO? Will RuAF buy more of them or just those 4 with Su-27SM3? There were rumors that Su-30M2 will serve as training two seater for Su-27SM/Su-35.

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