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    Rafale and EF Typhoon vs Su-35S

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    Austin
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    Re: Rafale and EF Typhoon vs Su-35S

    Post  Austin on Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:25 am

    Weapon Load and Imp System

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    Re: Rafale and EF Typhoon vs Su-35S

    Post  GarryB on Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:00 pm

    Interesting, but they haven't been updated to include the RVV-BD, or its domestic equivalent.

    The export missile has a range of 200km against an 8g target and 280km for an 8 g target for the domestic model.

    You would assume against a non manouvering large aircraft like AWACS or inflight refuelling tanker, that the effective range would become about 300km for the export missile and perhaps 350km for the domestic against 2g targets.

    Also the fact that Rafale has a slightly better thrust to weight ratio and lighter wing loading does not change the fact that the Flanker has 3D thrust vectoring that should allow it to perform manouvers that would stall a Rafale.

    Even if it was fitted with 3D thrust vectoring nozzles the Rafale would have the disadvantage of having its engines close together, which would greatly reduce the effect of differential thrust.

    In other words if you pull your nose up and stall so the airflow isn't moving over your wings or your control surfaces then the only way you can manouver the aircraft is by directing the thrust and getting the plane to turn in response. In a full stall the control surfaces no longer push against the air flowing over them and turn the aircraft so to roll the aircraft one engine nozzle goes down and the other goes up and the aircraft rotates. By separating the engine nozzles you increase the turning force they apply to the aircraft, so even with the same amount of power the Flanker would roll faster than the Rafale in the stall and would get its nose onto targets faster.

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    Re: Rafale and EF Typhoon vs Su-35S

    Post  Austin on Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:06 pm

    Check flight testing Rafale

    http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/flight-test-dassault-rafale-rampant-rafale-334383/

    I wish they did such report for Su-30MKI or Su-35 , its a good PR

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    Re: Rafale and EF Typhoon vs Su-35S

    Post  GarryB on Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:20 pm

    Buying planes these days is just as political as it is about the aircraft itself.

    Australia is a case in point... it buys Hornets because it is American oriented. It would be much better off with late model Flankers... in the 1990s the Russians not only offered Su-34s to replace their F-111s, but also the Su-27M (the first Su-35) and cooperation in developing a new long range AAM... which was either R-37, or KS-172.

    But no, they still have their F-111s, they have Hornets and Super Hornets and they are buying F-35s.

    ...the cost of which could have paid for all the Su-34s and Su-35s they wanted and still left them with change.

    If they had taken the offer I am sure the US would not have been friendly, but who is going to invade Australia?

    They likely would have been offered a share in the FFGA program together with India and would have pushed forward the timescale for the Su-34 and Su-35 by about 10 years.

    They'd likely be making AESAs now.

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    Re: Rafale and EF Typhoon vs Su-35S

    Post  SOC on Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:29 pm

    GarryB wrote:But no, they still have their F-111s

    Those have been retired for a year or so now, maybe a bit longer.

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    Re: Rafale and EF Typhoon vs Su-35S

    Post  Austin on Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:19 am

    Rafale Naval Rampup ( via Air International )

    Part1
    Part-2
    Part-3
    Part-4
    Part-5
    Part-6



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    Re: Rafale and EF Typhoon vs Su-35S

    Post  ahmedfire on Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:00 pm


    The lower RCS is an advantage, but not as large as initially seems. Remember you need to have a signature 16 times less to half the detection range. There is no way a Silent Hornet will ever operate with 16 times lower RCS than a Su-35 in combat. And the Su-35 has radar detection advantage that outweighs that in any case.

    ok lower RCS on SH will counter high detection range to flanker radar , SH has AESA radar that is adventage against jamming contrary to flanker radar , so lower RCS with AESA radar are first steps to win in an air- air fight as i think ,

    High flanker radar energy is adventage ,but also disadventage as the flanker will be like sun in the sky ,evry one will see it , so asilent attack against flanker using ir missiles will be ahigh risk against it .

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    Sergei Bogdan on the Su-35 vs Rafale

    Post  Cyberspec on Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:52 pm

    Is a fighter better than ours, let us say, the French Rafale? -

    I would not really want to answer the following questions - it's a very philosophical question, but rather a matter of tactics ... But if you do not become personal, - regarding the French Rafale or the American aircraft F-xx - is something I'm still going to tell you. Our plane is classified as heavy fighters, accordingly, it may take a large amount of fuel - 11.5 tons, which is two tons more than can take Su -27. At about the same cost in fuel consumption it can last longer in a air battle. Another point, the Su-35 has a 14-point suspension, we can take on board eight tons of weapons.

    There are other points, but I do not want to hurt anyone's feelings. Once again I want to stress the importance of the tactical use of the aircraft.

    http://ria.ru/interview/20130622/945066770.html

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    Re: Rafale and EF Typhoon vs Su-35S

    Post  nemrod on Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:07 pm

    Cyberspec wrote: Is a fighter better than ours, let us say, the French Rafale? -

    I would not really want to answer the following questions - it's a very philosophical question, but rather a matter of tactics ... But if you do not become personal, - regarding the French Rafale or the American aircraft F-xx - is something I'm still going to tell you. Our plane is classified as heavy fighters, accordingly, it may take a large amount of fuel - 11.5 tons, which is two tons more than can take Su -27. At about the same cost in fuel consumption it can last longer in a air battle. Another point, the Su-35 has a 14-point suspension, we can take on board eight tons of weapons.

    There are other points, but I do not want to hurt anyone's feelings. Once again I want to stress the importance of the tactical use of the aircraft.

    http://ria.ru/interview/20130622/945066770.html

    If the Rafale is better than the SU-35 ? It is very difficult to judge, as the Rafale is an excellent aircraft, as the SU-35, the difference is only the pilot's skills. Training, training, tactic, a good Phantom II's pilot could down a SU-35, Mig 29, Rafale, as a good Mig 17's pilot could down an F-22, F-35, Typhoon.
    Didn't we see, during a recent US-Indian exercice, a Mig 21 bison outclassed F-15, and even if US dared, a Mig 21 bison could easily downed an F-22.
    As The indian pilots are very well trained.
    For me the SU-35 with a good pilot is able to overcome any western aircraft. Unfortunetly, the contrary is true too.
    Could russians design a new aircraft like SU-35 without pilot abble to overcome any aircraft ? I know, I dream, but it would be helpfull respekt 


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    Re: Rafale and EF Typhoon vs Su-35S

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:07 pm

    nemrod wrote:
    If the Rafale is better than the SU-35 ? It is very difficult to judge, as the Rafale is an excellent aircraft, as the SU-35, the difference is only the pilot's skills. Training, training, tactic, a good Phantom II's pilot could down a SU-35, Mig 29, Rafale, as a good Mig 17's pilot could down an F-22, F-35, Typhoon.
    Didn't we see, during a recent US-Indian exercise, a Mig 21 bison outclassed F-15, and even if US dared, a Mig 21 bison could easily downed an F-22.
    As The Indian pilots are very well trained.
    For me the SU-35 with a good pilot is able to overcome any western aircraft. Unfortunately, the contrary is true too.
    In the case of the Rafale and Su-35 i agree, when the technical level of the aircraft are similar the decisive factor for victory or loss will be the skill of said aircrafts pilot.
    In the case of so called lower class or previous Gen aircraft against the next Gen, the decisive factor would not only be the pilots skill, but also the level of modernization of the aircraft as well,  lets say your flying a Mig-29 with little to no ECM/MAWS/ACM, mid range radar/missiles, Short range IRST and stationary ground Radar support  against an invading F-15 with long range radar/missiles, advance EW systems, and AWACS support, the result of the engagement is clear, unless the Mig can close the gap although without proper ECM/MAWS/ACM that is unlikely. (ala Iraq)Sad 

    Could Russians design a new aircraft like SU-35 without pilot able to overcome any aircraft ? I know, I dream, but it would be helpfull respekt 
    Don't think so, the idea of unmanned aircraft being able to do the job of manned aircraft is interesting and all, but in my opinion as long as your fighting an adversary the has strong EW capabilities, the possibility of your flying robot death machine being turned against you will always be their.Neutral

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    Re: Rafale and EF Typhoon vs Su-35S

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:54 am

    Who knows?  Considering a Rafale can defeat an F-22 with TVC, it can probably hold its own against Su-35 as well.  



    One must realise, French fighter pilots fly 180hrs a year, our pilots only get a fraction of that unless they are instructors.


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    Re: Rafale and EF Typhoon vs Su-35S

    Post  TR1 on Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:06 am

    Currently French pilots are getting tops around 150 hours per year....and with current cuts, only 40 of those will be on fast jets!

    Russian units that fly new birds will be flying at least that (Kursk pilots already flew 150 hours pr year in 2012) and AFAIK that is all in fast jets.

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    Re: Rafale and EF Typhoon vs Su-35S

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:04 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:Who knows?  Considering a Rafale can defeat an F-22 with TVC, it can probably hold its own against Su-35 as well.  



    One must realise, French fighter pilots fly 180hrs a year, our pilots only get a fraction of that unless they are instructors.  

    I read somewhere that around last year, the average flight hours was around 120h for Russian pilots, which is a huge step up from the average of 80 or less in less than 10 years ago.

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    Re: Rafale and EF Typhoon vs Su-35S

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:27 pm

    TR1 wrote:Currently French pilots are getting tops around 150 hours per year....and with current cuts, only 40 of those will be on fast jets!

    Russian units that fly new birds will be flying at least that (Kursk pilots already flew 150 hours pr year in 2012) and AFAIK that is all in fast jets.

    Over the last year hours were cut to 150, but that isn't permanent.  The proposed plan is for second tier fighter pilots to cut to 40hrs on their aircraft and 140 in advanced trainers.  The first tier would retain 180hrs on their aircraft.  This is something we already do but even our instructors don't exceed 150.  The difference is our junior pilots are lucky to fly 50hrs and our simulators in service do not compare to that of the French.  New ones are only just arriving and not enough by far.  We should observe how France implements our tiered model and take notes, i am sure it will end up being superior to our corrupt training system. The way we treat our pilots disgusts me.


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    Re: Rafale and EF Typhoon vs Su-35S

    Post  nemrod on Sat Jun 13, 2015 10:39 pm

    SU-35's most dangerous adversary -with Rafale-. I wish to understand what the russian specialist say, but unfortunetly, there is no english translation. If someone among you could translate or to say us what it was said in this video.



    The EAF Typhoon is very dangerous because this fighter is very manoeuvrable, I know that Mig-35, and SU-35 too.

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    Re: Rafale and EF Typhoon vs Su-35S

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Jun 14, 2015 12:11 am

    nemrod wrote:SU-35's most dangerous adversary -with Rafale-. I wish to understand what the russian specialist say, but unfortunetly, there is no english translation. If someone among you could translate or to say us what it was said in this video.



    The EAF Typhoon is very dangerous because this fighter is very manoeuvrable, I know that Mig-35, and SU-35 too.

    1.) Step one: click on the 'Youtube' icon on the bottom right corner of the video to get to the main youtube website.

    2.) Step two: click on the 'CC' caption icon on the dark blackish-grey bar at the bottom of the youtube video. It should automatically have Russian captions setting on.

    3.) Step three: click on the 'gear-cog' emblem to the right of the 'CC' captions icon to bring up video options. A transparent grey box should show up with some options, within that a dark grey box their is a white bar that has a 'Subtitles/CC' title to the left of it. Click on the black 'down arrow' and a white box should pop with caption/subtitle options, and click on the very bottom option with a grey divider line above...it should say 'Translate Captions'. It should bring up a dark grey box with a title 'Translate...', with a white bar with the name of languages. Click on the language bar, then scroll down till you find 'English'. Click on that, then click 'OK'.

    ...After you complete those steps you should get rough translations, however keep in mind it's far from perfect...it has a hard time translating fast speech, slurred words, some trouble with accents and slang...but with that being said you should get a good enough rough translation that you can get a basic understanding on what they're talking about.

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    Re: Rafale and EF Typhoon vs Su-35S

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:54 am

    The problem is the Youtube translator is terrible!

    In short, he says the Su-35 is better as multirole aircraft while the Eurofighter is more optimised for A-A and the Su-35 will be able to detect and lock onto the EF much earlier thanks to it's powerful radar

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    Re: Rafale and EF Typhoon vs Su-35S

    Post  OminousSpudd on Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:53 am

    Going from Cyberspec's summary of the video... (You'll be lucky if Google translate on Youtube videos is even close to on topic, definitely WIP)

    Implying that the Eurofighter would be an issue to the Su-35S is kind of funny. For a start the EF is hardly fielded in adequate numbers (essentially a European F-22/F-35) and really isn't a threat in A2A due to it's manoeuvrability, pretty sure the Flanker-E has a far better performance at both spectrums of AoA (high and low speed limits), and it's thrust-to-weight (empty) ratio is 1.3 approx as opposed to the EF's 1.25 approx. As for BVR combat we know the Su-35 dominates all legacy platforms here.



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    EF Typhhon vs Su-35S

    Post  medo on Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:33 am

    Eurofighter is a multirole fighter and both Eurofighter and Rafale have good maneuverability. But in my opinion, both Su-30SM and Su-35 are better air dominance fighters with more powerful radars and IRST sensors, with equal ESM equipment and more powerful jammers, not to say, they have better agility with TVC engines, which Eurofighter and Rafale don't have.

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    Re: Rafale and EF Typhoon vs Su-35S

    Post  George1 on Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:26 am

    Here are some comparisons of Su-35 from a relative site

    Rafale vs Su-35

    Facts – Dassault Rafale vs Sukhoi SU-35

    Sukhoi SU-35 is cheaper.
    Dassault Rafale is more economical.
    Sukhoi SU-35 is faster.
    Sukhoi SU-35 is better armed.
    Dassault Rafale is better dogfighter.
    Dassault Rafale is smaller than Sukhoi SU-35.


    Eurofighter vs SU-35


    Facts – Eurofighter Typhoon versus Sukhoi SU-35
    Sukhoi SU-35 is cheaper.
    Eurofighter Typhoon is more economical.
    Eurofighter Typhoon is faster.
    Sukhoi SU-35 is better armed.
    Eurofighter Typhoon is better dogfighter.
    Eurofighter Typhoon is smaller than Sukhoi SU-35.

    Of course anyone can question the conclusions above


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    Re: Rafale and EF Typhoon vs Su-35S

    Post  higurashihougi on Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:53 am

    Sukhoi SU-35 is cheaper.
    Dassault Rafale is more economical.
    Sukhoi SU-35 is cheaper.
    Eurofighter Typhoon is more economical.

    What the heck is going on ? Why EU carnards are more economical ?

    Dassault Rafale is better dogfighter.
    Eurofighter Typhoon is better dogfighter.

    What the f*** is this shit ?

    EU carnard is better dogfighter ?

    Can EU carnard do Corba or can they achieve high AoA like Sukhoi and MiG ?

    At high AoA, the vertical stabilizer of EU carnard is completely blocked by the hull and wings, and therefore lost its function. EU carnard cannot achieve high AoA like MiG-25/31, MiG-29/35, Su-27...37, and F-15.

    High AoA is vital in maneuverability and dogfight. And that means, EU carnard's dogfighting is pathetic.

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    Re: Rafale and EF Typhoon vs Su-35S

    Post  GarryB on Thu Dec 31, 2015 9:59 am

    I call BS on the dogfighter crap...

    With any aircraft that does not have thrust vectoring engines you can only turn so far before the air separates from your conventional control surfaces and instead of generating a turning force your control surfaces start generating drag.

    With thrust vectoring there is no such thing as a stall... point your nose at the target and launch a missile.... the end.

    BTW don't underestimate the cost factor... costing five times less means you can have five times more...


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    Re: Rafale and EF Typhoon vs Su-35S

    Post  medo on Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:36 pm

    Dassault Rafale is better dogfighter.

    Eurofighter Typhoon is better dogfighter.

    I don't think so. For now Indian Su-30MKI in air exercises show, that it is equal in dogfight with them and Su-35 is lighter and with lower drag than Su-30MKI and have more powerful engines with 3D TVC.

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