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    Osama Bin Laden Killed

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    Russian Patriot
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    Osama Bin Laden Killed

    Post  Russian Patriot on Mon May 02, 2011 10:03 pm

    U.S. senator questions Pakistani intelligence knowledge of bin Laden's whereabouts
    23:54 02/05/2011


    WASHINGTON, May 2 (RIA Novosti) - Pakistani military and intelligence officials should answer many questions to prove that they did not know where Osama bin Laden had been hiding before he was killed in a U.S. raid on Monday, a senior U.S. senator said.

    The compound where the al-Qaeda leader was killed is located about 100 meters from a Pakistani military academy in the Pakistani city of Abbottabad, which has raised questions whether the Pakistani military could know where the world's most wanted terrorist was hiding.

    "There isn't any question that Pakistani officials, army and intelligence have a lot of questions to answer, given the location of the compound, the length of time he was there and that this facility was apparently built for bin Laden," Carl Levin, D-Mich., who heads the U.S. Senate's Armed Services Committee, told journalists in Washington on Monday.

    Controversial statements by U.S. and Pakistani officials over the raid make it difficult to assess the contribution of the Pakistani intelligence and military to the killing of bin Laden.

    After U.S. President Barack Obama announced that bin Laden was killed, U.S. intelligence officials told journalists in Washington that the Pakistani authorities had not been informed about the raid being prepared by the U.S. military.

    U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said later on Monday that a "close cooperation" with Pakistani special services helped the United States to "achieve our targets."

    The statement came amid media reports that a Pakistani helicopter had been shot down by unknown people close to bin Laden's compound in Abbottabad before two U.S. helicopters flew to the site.

    A photo of the crashed helicopter was published on the Internet, and witnesses were quoted by media reports as saying that they had seen the wreckage. Obama said no U.S. troops have been killed in the operation.

    Some military experts said the United States was unlikely to have informed the Pakistani authorities about the planned operation, because otherwise Laden would have escaped as a result of information leaks.

    http://en.rian.ru/world/20110502/163824828.html

    nightcrawler
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed

    Post  nightcrawler on Tue May 03, 2011 2:14 am

    What now??
    They leaving Middle East or not??
    Guess what now they are barking at us for being neglectful

    See here; what the wrold is thinking

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed

    Post  GarryB on Tue May 03, 2011 3:18 am

    The fact that it is near a military facility suggests to get to the compound you would probably have to get through half a dozen military checkpoints... which suggests either the military allowed him to come and go as he pleased, or he has been holed up there for a decade while the US and NATO have been playing around in Afghanistan.

    Either way he has done very little in the last few years except put out the odd video.

    I find it amusing the Americans are going on about Justice.

    It seems they can't read a dictionary or simply don't understand that words actually have specific meanings... what the US got was not justice... it was revenge.

    Justice would not involve killing thousands of Pakistanis and Afghans and Iraqis for the purpose of simply killing one guy.

    Al Queda is not OBL and lets face it with the twin towers falling down he simply got lucky... his previous attempts to bring the two towers down were pretty pathetic... the real danger is that who ever replaces him might actually be a bit more capable like a Chechen.

    Would be interesting to see the US's reaction to things like Finlands support of Chechen rebels if Umarov replaces OBL and takes on the western world and Russia.
    That pro chechen terrorist website based in Finland would disappear overnight.

    Short of alien invasion however I don't think there is much else that will bring the US and the EU closer to Russia... except perhaps a belligerent China... but I just don't see that happening... just as I didn't see Saddam as being a threat to world peace, nor Iran as a threat to world stability.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed

    Post  Vladimir79 on Tue May 03, 2011 12:47 pm

    nightcrawler wrote:What now??
    They leaving Middle East or not??
    Guess what now they are barking at us for being neglectful

    The US thinks ISI or the military was hiding him out. There are going to be repercussions for Pakistan.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed

    Post  nightcrawler on Wed May 04, 2011 11:01 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    nightcrawler wrote:What now??
    They leaving Middle East or not??
    Guess what now they are barking at us for being neglectful

    The US thinks ISI or the military was hiding him out. There are going to be repercussions for Pakistan.
    Yes I have been thinking over it...especially after Petraeus has warned that next fight will be WITHIN Pakistan!!
    Now he is CIA director what could be worse than that; but the death of OSAMA & the way it was executed lead to some doubts whether he was there in the first place or whether he already was killed.
    Plus the dungeons he was hiding was already scrutinised by our ISI back in 2005 dunno

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed

    Post  GarryB on Thu May 05, 2011 2:22 am

    Plus the dungeons he was hiding was already scrutinised by our ISI back in 2005

    I rather think that the Taleban would have folded overnight if there was not some support from the ISI.
    I rather doubt they would get support from the former Soviet republics to the north or the Chinese to the east or the Iranians to the west.
    Iran is probably the biggest winner in the US interventions in that the Taleban and Saddam were probably the greatest threats to Iran at the time.
    Now that Saddam has gone and the Taleban are weakened Iran will want there to be nothing that rocks the boat so the US will leave the area and they can start infiltrating both countries and to start neighbourly relations.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed

    Post  Russian Patriot on Thu May 05, 2011 3:12 am

    My take on the matter... Pakistan is not blind, I mean the ISI supports the Taliban and how could of they not known Bin Laden was there when a police station was 300 meters away, the main milltary academy 500 yards away, I mean you guys make the conclusion... Twisted Evil

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed

    Post  GarryB on Thu May 05, 2011 4:28 am

    Lets be honest however and face the facts that Osama Bin Laden attacked the US... he didn't attack Pakistan, so in many ways they had little reason to see him as the world threat the US made him out to be.

    And lets face it with the US sending drones into Pakistan airspace without permission and attacking vehicles and buildings... often killing innocent civilians... the US might call Pakistan its best ally in the war on terror but you get the feeling if the US didn't think Pakistan was useful to them any more they would drop them like a handful of excrement and rush away to find a hand basin to wash their hands.

    Look at Saddam or Gaddafi to see how quickly things can change from friends to bitter enemies and regime change.

    The irony is that the things you need to do to make that change are not always very obvious or clear and are based on the imagination and plans of the US... which they wont share.

    For Saddam one day he was the hero dealing with Iran for Uncle Sam and the next he was hanging from a rope...

    For Gaddafi one day he was courting French and British and US weapons companies all wanting to sell him products or help "develop the wealth of his country" (ie pinch their oil) and the next he gets demonstrations of the effectiveness of those weapons including the murder of his son and grand kids.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed

    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu May 05, 2011 9:15 am

    nightcrawler wrote:
    Yes I have been thinking over it...especially after Petraeus has warned that next fight will be WITHIN Pakistan!!
    Now he is CIA director what could be worse than that; but the death of OSAMA & the way it was executed lead to some doubts whether he was there in the first place or whether he already was killed.
    Plus the dungeons he was hiding was already scrutinised by our ISI back in 2005

    The facts are... UBL was there, Navy Seals killed him, US didn't notify Pakistan. That shows how little they trust Pakistan, now with UBL being found there after so many years of lies, their Congress is going to demand Pakistan get off their ass and start handing over suspects or they aren't going to get the next aid package.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed

    Post  GarryB on Fri May 06, 2011 2:53 am

    Or much more dangerous for Pakistan... US Congress asks why the US is still in Afghanistan when the goals were to remove the Taleban from power and get OBL... well both missions accomplished... lets run away and leave Afghanistan to what ever fate awaits it and leave others to clean up our mess.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed

    Post  nightcrawler on Fri May 06, 2011 6:02 am

    regarding ISI & its cooperation with Taliban:
    I must refute all claims of such collaboration...look at those terrorists they have killed more civilians in suicide attacks than were killed in total Indo-Pakistan wars!! Why would in the least we help them...yes there exists factions of militants [not necessarily Talibans] that we support of now are those fighting in Kashmir; not the Afghanistan. The problem is both these factions look alike physically...& where fails the target precision capability of drones..or may be they are doing this intentionally to destabilise Pakistan.

    Look we in the past helped Osama because we acquire lots of Arab fortune via him [that was a mistake; we regret it] but for now Osama has no penny in the least!!

    ...Alternatively Osama didn't even exists or was killed years before; this I must say is a pretext to LEGALLY justify US intervention within Pakistan boundaries on an International scale...

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed

    Post  GarryB on Fri May 06, 2011 6:21 am

    I wasn't criticising Pakistan... if the 11/9 attacks had happened in Pakistan I really don't think the US would have cared very much at all unless a lot of US citizens got killed.

    The US hired OBL in the 1980s to build and upgrade the tunnels in Afghanistan used to fight the Soviets... most of his money came from very lucrative contracts from the US and Saudi Arabia...

    No one has clean hands in all of this.

    ...but we know from experience that Americas attitude in such things is do as I say, not as I do, and they certainly are happy to point the finger at others while reticent to look at their own actions and realise they would often do exactly the same or worse in the same position.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed

    Post  Russian Patriot on Fri May 06, 2011 9:44 pm


    Al Qaeda confirms Osama bin Laden is dead


    Al Qaeda confirmed Osama bin Laden is dead in a statement appearing on a militant website. As Jeff Glor reports, the statement also vowed more attacks on the U.S.

    Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda statement confirming OBL's death. (CBS/AP)
    (CBS/AP) CAIRO - Al Qaeda on Friday confirmed the killing of Osama bin Laden and warned of retaliation, saying Americans' "happiness will turn to sadness."


    The confirmation came in an Internet statement posted on militant websites, signed by "the general leadership" of al Qaeda. The announcement opens the way for the group to name a successor to bin Laden. His deputy Ayman al-Zawahri is now the most prominent figure in the group and is a very likely contender to take his place.


    The statement, dated May 3, was the first by the terror network since bin Laden was killed Monday by U.S. commandos in a raid on his hideout in Abbottabad, Pakistan. The statement's authenticity could not be independently confirmed, but it was posted on websites where the group traditionally puts out its messages.


    The Killing of Osama bin Laden


    "The blood of the holy warrior sheik, Osama bin Laden, God bless him, is too precious to us and to all Muslims to go in vain," the statement said. "We will remain, God willing, a curse chasing the Americans and their agents, following them outside and inside their countries."


    "Soon, God willing, their happiness will turn to sadness," it said, "their blood will be mingled with their tears."


    There was no indication how the group will retaliate. Rather than making vehement cries of vengeance, the statement — entitled "You lived as a good man, you died as a martyr" — struck a tone of calmness and continuation. Though it included praise of bin Laden, much of the 11-paragraph statement was dedicated to underlining that al Qaeda would live on, depicting him as just another in a line of "martyrs" from the group.



    "It is impossible, impossible. Sheik Osama didn't build an organization to die when he dies," the statement read. "The university of faith, Quran and jihad from which bin Laden graduated will not close its doors," it added.


    "The soldiers of Islam will continue in groups and united, plotting and planning without getting bored, tired, with determination, without giving up until striking a blow," the statement.


    It said bin Laden was killed "along an established path followed by the best of those who came before him and those who will come after him."


    In an interview with Steve Kroft for Sunday's "60 Minutes" President Obama said he wouldn't release post-mortem images of bin Laden taken to prove his death, largely out of concern that they would fuel anti-U.S. sentiment in the Middle East.


    "It is important to make sure that very graphic photos of somebody who was shot in the head are not floating around as an incitement to additional violence or as a propaganda tool," the president said."We don't trot out this stuff as trophies.


    The president said he had discussed the issue with his intelligence team, including Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, and that they agree with the decision.


    In explaining his choice not to release the photo, Mr. Obama said that "we don't need to spike the football." He said that "given the graphic nature of these photos it would create a national security risk."


    In the statement posted Friday, al Qaeda also called on Pakistanis to rise up in revolt against its leaders to "cleanse the shame." It also said that an audio message bin Laden recorded a week before his death would be issued soon.


    The writers of the statement appeared unaware of the announcement by American officials that bin Laden's body had been buried at sea. The statement warned against mishandling or mistreating bin Laden's body and demanded that be handed over to his family, saying "any harm (to the body) will open more doors of evil, and there will be no one to blame but yourselves."


    © 2011 CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. The Associated Press contributed to this report.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/05/06/501364/main20060382.shtml


    More:

    Pakistan arrests dozens in Abbottabad

    Pakistani security forces arrested dozens of people yesterday, following Sunday's U.S. raid on Osama bin Laden's compound in Abbtotabad.


    According to a report from the Open Source Center, several Pakistani agencies conducted a joint operation in Abbottabad, arresting 40 people on suspicion of links to bin Laden.


    Participating were the Inter-Services Intelligence Agency, Military Intelligence, the Intelligence Bureau, and the Abbottabad Police.


    Official Pakistani sources were quoted as having referred to the arrests as the "second phase" of the operation that killed the al Qaeda leader.


    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-20060482-503543.html


    Still More:


    (CBS News) A downed helicopter may be yielding some information about new stealth technology, as the U.S. tries to get back what remains of their Black Hawk.


    One of the Black Hawks flown by an elite Army unit called Task Force 160 - which carried the Navy SEAL commandos - lost lift and was forced into a hard landing at Osama bin Laden's compound in Abbotabad, Pakistan. The pilot nudged the Blackhawk forward into a controlled crash - saving the mission from disaster, but sheering off the helicopter's tail section, reports CBS News national security correspondent David Martin.


    The SEALs were able to continue with their raid. Before they left, they left blew up as much of the Blackhawk as they could but had to leave the tail section intact.


    That gave aviation expert Bill Sweetman his first good look at a stealth helicopter.


    "I think nobody outside the classified community really knew that these existed," he told Martin.


    Special section: The killing of Osama bin Laden
    New Bin Laden intel includes train attack plots
    CIA spied on bin Laden from safe house


    Black Hawks are manufactured by the Connecticut-based Sikorsky, but the tail section left behind in Pakistan appears modified - possibly with technology developed for a stealth helicopter program that was cancelled, reports The New York Times.


    Sweetman points out some of the features that make it stealthy, like special materials covering the tail rotor hub to reduce the helicopter's radar signature.


    Sweetman, Editor in Chief for Defense Technology for Aviation Week, has written that published photos of the tail section show stealth-configured shapes on the boom and tip fairings, swept stabilizers, and a silver-loaded infra-red suppression finish.


    The tail rotor also has more than the usual number of blades -five or six - which evens out the distinctive whop-whop sound of a helicopter.


    "At a range of a couple hundred feet even, if you've got a bit of urban background noise, you're not going to hear it," said Sweetman.


    A prototype was built of the Boeing-Sikorsky RAH-66 Comanche helicopter (left), which was to herald a new generation of rotorcraft for the military, but the Army canceled the $8 billion program in 2004.





    The Pakistanis hauled the tail section away, so now the secret of the stealth helicopter is blown.


    Still, the Pentagon wants its helicopter back, and has asked Pakistan to return it.



    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/05/06/earlyshow/main20060391.shtml


    More:


    Source: 2.7 terabytes of data recovered from bin Laden compound
    Posted by Emily Rand 2 comments 1diggdigg Share E-mail Print Font
    (Credit: CBS) A law enforcement source tells CBS News that 2.7 terabytes of data were recovered from the laptops, computers, hard drives and other storage devices seized from the bin Laden compound. It's unclear whether all of the 2.7 terabytes are original files or if there are multiple copies of files. To put the amount of data recovered in perspective, just one terabyte of data could hold about 2,000 hours of audio or 220 million pages of text.

    Intelligence officials have not said how they are analyzing the data, but a DOD computer forensic analyst who works on computers captured on the battlefield tells CBS News forensic analysts are most likely using search indexing tools and software to rapidly analyze seized electronic devices to locate information of interest to the intelligence committee.


    Sources said much of the material seized in the daring raid was encrypted so the messages could not be read if they were intercepted.

    Among the material confiscated was al Qaida propaganda material including al Qaida messaging strategies to inspire and recruit new Jihadists. There is some indication that bin Laden was continuing to develop his strategy to utilize homegrown operatives that were intimately famiilar with the countries in which they lived. There was also material on current events, in an apparent effort to keep bin Laden abreast on news from around the world.



    Complete coverage: The Killing of Osama bin Laden



    The compound did not appear to have been used as a nerve center or a command and control post, but analysts are looking further to determine the extent of bin Laden's involvement in day to day decisions and long-term strategy.


    bin Laden had cash, phone numbers sewn in clothes

    The first priority, sources tell CBS News, is for analysts to determine if the mother-lode of data contains any actionable plots in the works against the U.S. and western interests. Analysts will also seek to identify any al Qaida operatives or extremists in the United States or elsewhere.






    A good portion of the material is being analyzed at CIA headquarters at Langley and at other intelligence community at sites around the world.






    Another top priority for analysts is to search for evidence of a connection between al Qaida and al Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP), in particular links between bin Laden and AQAP's leader Anwar al awlaqi, living in Yemen, and Nasir al-Wahishi, AQAP's operational leader.




    Digital forensic and evidence recovery specialists were part of the raid team---springing into action after the compound was secured. The team had to rapidly preserve everything, freezing everything on computers so that it didn't get wiped out. The recovery specialists had to be particularly careful before they unplugged the computers not to trigger software programs designed to destroy hard drives or delete data that may have been installed by bin Laden's people as protection.












    "The trick was to get it out fast but to preserve everything, a source said, "for intelligence purposes first but also for evidence for possible prosecutions,'' of terrorists.






    Sources say it could take weeks or months to get a handle on what the U.S. has and what the value of it is.


    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20060493-10391695.html


    And Finally:

    Bin Laden raid intel yields leads on al Qaeda No. 2 al Zawahiri


    Ayman al Zawahri headshot, chief deputy to Osama bin Laden, in an undated photo from Khost, Afghanistan.
    (Credit: AP)

    The intelligence community has obtained "positive intelligence" from the materials taken from Osama bin Laden's compound which is helping narrow down the locations of core al Qaeda leadership including the whereabouts of Ayman al Zawahiri, al Qaeda's former No. 2 man and a candidate to succeed bin Laden.


    The intelligence source said that there are "numerous" leads giving them locations but cautioned that they are fluid as al Qaeda leaders may be on the run, changing their locations.


    "It's not as easy as going to an address. They may not be there anymore but it helps a point of reference," the source said.



    Analysts are working around the clock scrutinizing the documents, knowing that the information may be perishable.


    The tribal of Pakistan targeted in the strike is called the Datta Khel, where senior al Qaeda leadership suspected of operating their training camps.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20060554-10391695.html
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed

    Post  nightcrawler on Fri May 06, 2011 11:01 pm


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    Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed

    Post  Pervius on Thu May 12, 2011 5:34 am

    The United States illegally targeted Kadafi in a strike and killed his sons and grandkids and almost killed Kadafi.

    That was in violation of the UN Resolution on just a no fly zone.

    The only reason Osama Bin Forgotten made the news is....propaganda to hide the fact the United States targeted Kadafi for assassination illegally.


    Osama Bin Forgotten isn't dead. He's sipping martini's in the Cayman Islands with Dick Cheney laughing at how stupid the world is.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed

    Post  IronsightSniper on Sat May 14, 2011 8:59 am

    Uh, you do realize that Kadafi's kid died 2 days before the United State's triumphant and decisive and overall very gratifying headshot of Osama Bin Ladin? Not to mention that the supposed assassination attempt was with missiles. Not to mention that no bodies were uncovered. So based on that, because no bodies of Kadafi's kid was found, we must assume he is sipping a Martini in the Cayman Islands along with Osama Bin Ladin and Ronald Reagen and maybe even Elvis? Christ people are dumb these days!

    Anyways, war is not over, Osama Bin Ladin is dead, another day, another fight.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed

    Post  Russian Patriot on Sat May 14, 2011 6:34 pm

    IronsightSniper wrote:Uh, you do realize that Kadafi's kid died 2 days before the United State's triumphant and decisive and overall very gratifying headshot of Osama Bin Ladin? Not to mention that the supposed assassination attempt was with missiles. Not to mention that no bodies were uncovered. So based on that, because no bodies of Kadafi's kid was found, we must assume he is sipping a Martini in the Cayman Islands along with Osama Bin Ladin and Ronald Reagen and maybe even Elvis? Christ people are dumb these days!

    Anyways, war is not over, Osama Bin Ladin is dead, another day, another fight.

    In support of what you say, even Al Qaeda admitted Bin Laden is dead!

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed

    Post  GarryB on Sun May 15, 2011 3:13 am

    The US government talks about honesty and openness and transparency... but the fact of the matter is that they routinely tell lies.

    They hunt down and try to arrest anyone that might reveal those lies... ask Wikileaks... or better still ask the major credit card companies why they refuse to do business with wikileaks anymore.

    If the US government wants to make conspirasy theorists fringe sideline loonies like they used to be it could start by stopping all this spin BS and start telling the truth... but of course telling a politician they have to tell the truth is like telling a catholic priest to keep his hands off the alter boys... the honest ones will and the dishonest ones will keep on doing it till they are caught.

    I don't believe most of the conspirasy theories... like explosives in the structure of the world trade centre, or that bush organised the attack in the first place.

    Having said that westerners that call it a silly conspirasy theory were happy to believe Putin personally poisoned that Russian guy in Britain with a poison worth hundreds of thousands of dollars a gram that could only have come from one place which the Russians control that is so radioactive that not only could it be identified on the body for years afterwards but could be used to find where everyone in contact with it had been too.

    Considering its value it wouldn't be even slightly possible that the guy was trying to smuggle it to make a bit of cash... putin himself must have done it.

    There is a story about a boy who cried wolf about a boy who gets bored looking after sheep and starts telling lies to entertain himself. The story ends with the boys death because no one believes him any more and a wolf kills him and his sheep.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed

    Post  nightcrawler on Tue May 17, 2011 9:41 am

    Ravi Rikhye in Orbat.com

    --------------

    The Pakistan Air Force and Operation Geronimo

    Forwarded by Major A.H. Amin (Pakistan Army, Retired). He received it from a former PAF officer he trusts.

    With the latest PAF press briefing whose distorted version appeared today on TV channels and in the electronic edition of various newspapers including The News Radars were inactive, not jammed: PAF, PAF's case has been totally messed up and it has been put on the back foot unnecessarily. It was simply bad PR; an would have been far better, with no possibility of laymen's interpretation and distortion of facts by uninformed journalists about matters technical. Like most of you, I have been following the matter over the past few days and would like to offer the factual story as far as is known, without trying to cover any mistakes or offering lame excuses on behalf of what was, formerly, my parent service.

    On the night of 2 May, four near-stealth/low observable MH-60 helicopters ingressed unobserved from Bagram to Abbotabad. (Some US websites displaying animated action include two Chinooks, which, to my mind does not make sense as it nullifies the rationale of the other two low observable MH-60s, unless the Chinooks also had stealth features). The helicopter package was able to exploit the blind areas inherent in radars over hilly/broken terrain, while their own low-observable structure helped no less. (It is not true that PAF radars were being given a rest to conserve their life, as has been reported in The News.) It must, however, be noted that it is the PAF's AEW Erieyes that are not operated round-the-clock during peacetime, else we would quickly wear them out.

    A package of 6-7 support aircraft including EC-130E/H, MC-130, AC-130, E-3 AWACS and, most ominously, a pair of fighters of unknown type (possibly F-15C), were orbiting in FATA area. It was easy to masquerade this package as the usual retinue of half a dozen Predators, Reapers and Global Surveyors that have been flying in the same area - with government approval and PAF clearance - over the last several years. There was, therefore, no question of this support package arousing any suspicion on this particular night.

    As the operation got under way, no Pak Army unit was present in the vicinity of the OBL compound. US assessment was that local Army units in Abbotabad would be able to react effectively, not before one hour at the earliest (to take orders and draw their weapons). It was also surmised that armed soldiers at quarter guards, guard rooms, etc would not leave their posts.

    When the firing started, local commanders at Abbotabad rushed to the scene and soon informed GHQ, who in turn got in touch with AHQ. The latter immediately scrambled a pair of F-16s but by the time these got to Abbotabad in about 15 minutes, the operation was over and the helicopters had departed. Without any help from ground radar, the F-16s did not know where to look, as they had no idea that the incursion had been from the west. As a matter of fact, an intrusion from the east was uppermost in their minds. The helicopters once again flew low, through radar gaps and were not spotted either by ground radar or the F-16s. The reality dawned too late that we do not have an antidote to a stealth raiding package. USA carrying out such an attack was the biggest surprise for the PAF as well as the Army.

    In some ways, it was fortuitous that PAF F-16s did not pick up the helicopters on their radars, or else the nearby patrolling US fighters would have made short work of them with their long range missiles, what with full communications and radar jamming support available to them.

    To say that it was a failure of the PAF to react potently is completely incorrect and unfair. It was simply beyond its technical means to handle fifth-generation warfare vs USA. If it is a failure, it is at the national policy level, whereby US was compelled to sideline its much-ballyhooed ally because of trust deficit.

    Editor's comment : Editor is quite familiar with the PAF and its capabilities. Everything the officer has said is fair and reasonable. In matters of defense the Pakistan press is much worse than the Indian press, which is quite bad. Editor is not surprised that the Pakistan press has got everything wrong. In case you are thinking but surely PAF/ISPR knew that the press would muck up the story, you have to remember Pakistan military PR is plain terrible.

    We cannot explain the MH-47 mystery, except to say the US has very few of the stealth MH-60s, possibly no more than four operational and perhaps a trainer. Its reasonable to assume it would not deploy more than two for the mission as US has global commitments.




    I know the above vid is in Urdu language; but certainly after two minutes you can see the wreckage of the downed plane which bear high resemblance with



    ...& not with this: (look at the tail rotors of wreckage)


    ...so therefore stealth had evaded our radars...ur views

    ahmedfire
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    Did U.S. forces use secret stealth helicopters in bin Laden raid?

    Post  ahmedfire on Thu May 19, 2011 12:27 pm

    They managed to penetrate Pakistani airspace, hover for 40 minutes, and flee undetected towards Afghanistan until the very last minute.

    And now, pictures of the wrecked helicopter that crashed in Osama bin Laden's compound may shed new light on how Navy SEAL raiders snuck into Abbottabad without alerting Pakistani forces - by using secret 'stealth' helicopters.

    Pictures of the downed chopper's heavily damaged tail section bear a striking resemblance to the smooth angular design of other stealth aircraft and have left aviation experts struggling to identify the unknown machine.


    Stealth: The strange design of the rotor tail has led many to speculate that U.S. Navy SEALs used a secret stealth helicopter in Sunday's raids



    Unknown: Distinctive features, such as the smooth and angular outer shell, covered rotor blades and pointed rear end have bamboozled aviation experts


    The pictures have left aviation experts scratching their heads, with several concluding it must be a new, as yet unknown helicopter design.

    Bill Sweetman, editor of Aviation Week said the pictures show a 'stealth-configuration' on the wrecked rotor housing.


    He said: 'Well, now we know why all of us had trouble ID'ing the helicopter that crashed, or was brought down, in the Osama raid.

    'It was a secretly developed stealth helicopter, probably a highly modified version of an H-60 Blackhawk.'

    Citing pictures shown on MailOnline, he added: 'Photos show that the helicopter's tail features stealth-configured shapes on the boom and tip fairings, swept stabilizers and a 'dishpan' cover over a non-standard five-or-six-blade tail rotor.

    'The willingness to compromise this technology shows the importance of the mission in the eyes of US commanders - and what we're seeing here also explains why Pakistani defences didn't see the first wave (at least) coming in.

    'No wonder the team tried to destroy it.'


    Standard: The UH-60 Black Hawk is a workhorse with U.S. forces, with over 1000 currently serving across the Army, Navy and Airforce




    Comparison: The rotor of the crashed 'stealth' helicopter (left) from Sunday's raid and a close up of a standard UH-60 Black Hawk helicopter


    It was previously thought that the Navy SEAL teams involved in last Sunday's attack used modified MH-60 Black Hawk or Sea Hawk variant helicopters in the raid - although the White House would not confirm or deny what type of helicopter was used.

    Initially the plan was for the SEAL teams to 'fast rope' from the hovering 'Black Hawks', but according to the White House and defence officials, one of the helicopters developed a mechanical fault and had make a 'hard landing'.


    Equipped: SEALs and other special forces have access to the latest military hardware, potentially explaining why they would have used an experimental or secret helicopter type


    ID: The rear end bears no resemblance to that of the Black hawk typically used by special forces

    As the U.S. special forces fled bin Laden's compound, they destroyed the crippled helicopter, leaving what they thought were only charred remains.

    Discussing the intriguing pictures, a writer for website Defense Tech dismissed speculation the new craft was a modified version of the MH-60.

    He said: 'All I’ll say is that it sure doesn’t look like it came off even a modified MH-60 Black Hawk. It looks like a stealthy new aircraft.'



    Previous: Experts have speculated the 'clasified' helicopter could be a descendant of the now abandoned RAH-66 Comanche stealth helicopter project - seen here in prototype testing

    Experts are now speculating the mysterious helicopter may be a descendant of the abandoned RAH-66 Comanche stealth helicopter project.

    The Comanche, in development since 1984, reached the working prototype phase before it was cancelled in 2004.

    It has been suggested that the military could have kept a few examples of the Comanche for use on high priority missions such as last Sunday's raid on the bin Laden compound.

    The UH-60 Black Hawk helicopter, manufactured by Sikorsky, first entered service with the U.S. army in 1979.

    Since then, the $44 million helicopter has become a workhorse across all branches of the American military, with U.S. forces currently operating 1,349.

    There are numerous variations on the basic design, with special forces typically using the highly modified MH-60 variant.

    The Black Hawk, which first began flying in 1978, has a crew of three or four and can carry 11 soldiers equipped for combat.


    Eyes: 'The Beast of Kandahar' i.e. the secretive RQ-170 surveillance drone, was said to have filmed the daring raid and transmitted it back to the President in real time

    The new 'stealth' helicopter may not have been the only secret weapon used last Sunday.

    Navy SEAL teams have access to the latest weaponry and have the pick of any hardware deemed necessary to carry out the job.

    It is alleged that during the killing of bin Laden in Abbottabad, the SEALS involved were supported by the Air Force's secretive RQ-170 pilot less drone- dubbed 'The Beast of Kandahar'.

    The Air Force denied the futuristic looking weapons existence until 2009 and has never released an official photo of the reconnaissance aircraft.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=g0R1ISQAmqk

    lulldapull
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed

    Post  lulldapull on Fri May 20, 2011 12:24 am

    Ahmed,......please stop speculating!

    There is no such thing as a stealth chopper. Especially when the U.S. now admits that two other support CH-47 Chinooks chock full of special forces troops landed in a deserted staging spot en route to Abbottabad. And there were 2 other regular UH-60's as well. That 'stealthy' chopper exists in the mind of gullible sunni muslims.

    In all more than 50-60 people on at least 5 choppers penetrated deep inside Pakistan, and next to a major garrison town, and they expect us to believe that 'Stealth' did it? And there was no reaction from scared to death thousands of fully armed Pakistani military personnel sleeping the night away, while the operation went on for almost an hour?? bhuwahahahaaaaaa.....Come on man...lol!

    The only 'Stealth' here is the well known fact about sunni muslim people get paid to shut down their traps/ radars, and look the other way, and letting their airspace & ass get violated.lol!

    Saudi, Pakistan, Jordan, Morrocco, Egypt, Tunisia, GCC..........all these countries are under occupation or on dole of the zionists/ imperialists to let them do whatever they want, kill/ rendition whoever they want, bomb them whenever they want, bring an 'Arab Spring' if they want to, and threaten whomever they want.

    Nothing stealthy about the operation....

    Gen Kiyani/ Pasha etc.... are all on the CIA payroll...(Therein lies the real stealth)..... lol!

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed

    Post  nightcrawler on Sat May 21, 2011 1:23 pm

    I didn't believe this stealthy crap; till I saw the live wreckage...wht not to believe then?

    The veracity of the following picture is 100% because the civil person you are seeing is correspondent of Geo News...

    Further proof..

    Mission helo was secret stealth Black Hawk

    By Sean D. Naylor - Staff writer
    Posted : Wednesday May 4, 2011 18:07:39 EDT

    The helicopters that flew the Navy SEALs on the mission to kill Osama bin Laden were a radar-evading variant of the special operations MH-60 Black Hawk, according to a retired special operations aviator.

    The helicopter’s low-observable technology is similar to that of the F-117 Stealth Fighter the retired special operations aviator said. “It really didn’t look like a traditional Black Hawk,” he said. It had “hard edges, sort of like an … F-117, you know how they have those distinctive edges and angles — that’s what they had on this one.”

    In addition, “in order to keep the radar cross-section down, you have to do something to treat the windshield,” he said. If a special coating was applied to the windshield it is “very plausible” that would make the helicopter more difficult to fly for pilots wearing night-vision goggles, he said. The helicopters carrying the SEALs arrived over the bin Laden compound at about 1 a.m. Monday local time. One crash-landed in the courtyard and was so badly damaged it was unable to take off again.

    That crash landing might have been caused by a phenomenon known as “settling with power,” which occurs when a helicopter descends too quickly because its rotors cannot get the lift required from the turbulent air of their own downwash. “It’s hard to settle with power in a Black Hawk, but then again, if they were using one of these [low-observable helicopters], working at max gross weight, it’s certainly plausible that they could have because they would have been flying so heavy,” the retired special operations aviator said, noting that low-observable modifications added “several hundred pounds” to the weight of the MH-60, which already weighs about 500 to 1000 pounds more than a regular UH-60 Black Hawk.

    The special operations troops on the bin Laden mission destroyed the stricken aircraft — most likely using thermite grenades — but the resultant fire left the helicopter’s tail boom, tail rotor assembly and horizontal stabilizers intact in the compound’s courtyard.

    Photographs of the wreckage taken the next day raced around the Internet, creating a firestorm of speculation among military aviation enthusiasts because the tail of the helicopter did not resemble any officially acknowledged U.S. military airframe.

    This was to be expected, the retired special operations aviator said. “Certain parts of the fuselage, the nose and the tail had these various almost like snap-on parts to them that gave it the very unique appearance,” he said. He and another source referred to the disc-shaped device that is seen covering the tail rotor in the photographs as a “hubcap.”

    If the radar-evading technology worked, it “would be a true statement” to say that the use of the low-observable Black Hawks was evidence that the United States gave Pakistani authorities no advance warning of the mission, the retired special operations aviator added.


    The low-observable program started with AH-6 Little Bird special operations attack helicopters in the 1980s, said the aviator. During the 1990s U.S. Special Operations Command worked with the Lockheed-Martin Skunk Works division, which also designed the F-117, to refine the radar-evading technology and apply it to the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment’s MH-60s, he said. USSOCOM awarded a contract to Boeing to modify several MH-60s to the low-observable design “in the ’99 to 2000 timeframe,” he said.

    Initial plans called for the low-observable Black Hawks to be formed into a new unit commanded by a lieutenant colonel and located at a military facility in Nevada, the retired special operations aviator said. “The intent was always to move it out west where it could be kept in a covered capability,” he said.

    USSOCOM planned to assign about 35 to 50 personnel to the unit, the retired special operations aviator said. “There were going to be four [low-observable] aircraft, they were going to have a couple of ‘slick’ unmodified Black Hawks, and that was going to be their job was to fly the low-observables.”

    SOCOM canceled those plans “within the last two years,” but not before at least some of the low-observable helicopters had been delivered to the Nevada facility, the retired aviator said. “I don’t know if it was for money or if it was because the technology was not achieving the reduction in the radar cross-section that they were hoping for,” he said. In the meantime, MH-60 Black Hawk crews from the 160th’s 1st Battalion, headquartered at Fort Campbell, Ky., would rotate to Nevada to train on the stealthy aircraft, he said.

    The low-observable MH-60s were armed with the same sort of door mini-guns as standard MH-60s, he said. “There was not a DAP conversion,” he added, referring to the MH-60 variant known as the Direct Action Penetrator, which is equipped with stub wings upon which can be fitted a variety of armaments.

    The early versions of the low-observable Black Hawks were not fitted with air-to-air refueling probes, the retired special operations aviator said. “The probe would disrupt the ability to reduce the radar cross-section,” he added. “There was no way to put some kind of a hub or cowling over the probe that would make it stealthy.” However, he said he did not know whether the models that flew the bin Laden mission had been equipped with such probes.

    USSOCOM spokesman Army Col. Tim Nye said his command had no comment for this story.
    http://www.armytimes.com/news/2011/05/army-mission-helocopter-was-secret-stealth-black-hawk-050411/

    GarryB
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed

    Post  GarryB on Sun May 22, 2011 7:07 am

    Why go to the expense and complication of creating a stealth helo if you also operate Chinooks with it?

    Or are there stealthy Chinooks too?

    The US special forces have modified aircraft like their heavylift helo with extra bits and bobs and indeed special modifications of the C-130 for Elint and as a gunship show they like to spend money on such things.

    I just don't understand why some people seem so interested in this?

    Perhaps to try to excuse the failure of the Pakistani air defences?

    I think it would be more likely that the US probably hacked the Pakistani air defence system through a back door they put in themselves and used that the same way the Israelis used a French backdoor to the Syrian air defence network a few years back.

    Rather than take out the system they simply turned radar antenna away from the flight path at the right time to let the aircraft in and out without being seen.

    Makes rather more sense to me.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed

    Post  nightcrawler on Mon May 23, 2011 7:11 pm

    Perhaps to try to excuse the failure of the Pakistani air defences?

    I think it would be more likely that the US probably hacked the Pakistani air defence system through a back door they put in themselves and used that the same way the Israelis used a French backdoor to the Syrian air defence network a few years back.

    Rather than take out the system they simply turned radar antenna away from the flight path at the right time to let the aircraft in and out without being seen.

    Makes rather more sense to me.
    Your justification is legit..but what I am pointing is the fact that US did tried an LO shaped heli in the raid [as is show by the wreckage]...& more still that US is anxious that the wreckage to be returned to US..& may not be diverted to China [for reverse engineering sort of things]

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed

    Post  lulldapull on Tue May 24, 2011 3:47 pm

    This guy Mohd. Bashir a neighbor of 'Osama' saw the whole operation from his roof top! lays out the truth regarding this whole false flag. It's poignant enough that when he says that the lone chopper came down on Osama's roof, disgorged about a dozen men and then took off circling around, and came back to pick up the dudes from the courtyard this time, and when it took off with everyone on board it exploded! everyone died, there were mangled bodies everywhere.
    Mr Bashir together with 200 other village folks saw dozens of dead bodies, and the chopper totally destroyed. The two other 'support choppers' that came in (chinooks or Sea Knights) later never landed and disappeared. Here's the proof(in the local language):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcDr7tBJ1bs

    Also he mentions that several guys from the same first chopper came around and warned all neighbors by knocking on the neighborhood gates and warned ppl not to come out or they'd get shot spoke fluent Pushto! Probably Afghan mercenaries working for the U.S. spec. ops. So his contention that even if they did find 'Osama' in that compound, when the chopper exploded everyone died! so how did they take 'Osama' back to the USS Carl Vinson?
    Pakistan army ppl were everywhere by that time and everyone was asked to leave the compound by them. So the U.S. version makes no sense at all. They are totally covering it up.

    The U.S. is a deceptive liar.....it lies to its own people, and it also lies to the whole world!

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