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Russia floats out new missile frigate for Caspian Sea551

    Russia floats out new missile frigate for Caspian Sea

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    GarryB
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    Re: Russia floats out new missile frigate for Caspian Sea

    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:04 am

    Found these photos of models of Gepard vessels but there are so many different variants... from 1980s unstealthy old weapons, to new stealthy weapons and sensors and hull design.

    The Dagestan uses the old 76.2mm gun instead of the newer 100mm stealthy gun turret, the fact that it uses UKSK instead of Uran means they haven't done it all on the cheap... there is serious missile capability there...



    From this photo:
    A is the 14.5mm HMG positions
    B is Palma under a tarp cover.
    C seems to be a place they could fit Gibka or an AK gun turret.
    D is the UKSK launcher bins.
    E is the AK 176 turret.

    C could also be a position for the RBU-6000, or it could be fitted in front of the AK-176 turret.

    The positioning of the 14.5mm weapons suggest to me that they are primarily for use against light surface threats as such positions would be quite hazardous if the Palma above suddenly opened up with a burst of 30mm cannon fire to their side.

    runaway
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    Re: Russia floats out new missile frigate for Caspian Sea

    Post  runaway on Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:04 am

    medo wrote:Caspian sea is very rich with oil and gas, so I don't think it is a waste of money to secure this region.

    I think Russia is now more oriented in defending its near sea and coast than in projecting power overseas on in blue water.

    And thats a good priority, the Caspian is an important waterway, and this ship seems perfectly suited for it.
    As its relatively cheap, boost the Naval power in the region. Boost the local producers and workers, i would say its great.


    TheArmenian
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    Re: Russia floats out new missile frigate for Caspian Sea

    Post  TheArmenian on Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:35 pm

    Recent photo from the rear.
    What do you think the structure at the back is for?


    GarryB
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    Re: Russia floats out new missile frigate for Caspian Sea

    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:35 am

    Hard to say what the structure at the rear is.

    Perhaps it is a control room for the towed sonar countermeasures sweep system, or perhaps it was part of the design for vessels equipped with helicopters.

    With the position of the Palma I don't think they will put anything on top of it like a mast or anything.

    TheArmenian
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    Re: Russia floats out new missile frigate for Caspian Sea

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:00 pm

    How about another location for UKSKs?

    GarryB
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    Re: Russia floats out new missile frigate for Caspian Sea

    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:51 pm

    That is certainly possible.

    The doors at the very rear might just be access to the small part at the rear, with the main box area containing either UKSK launchers or perhaps Redut VLS tubes.

    Now that you mention it, a close look at the top edge of the main box area seems to suggest lots of hatches like the entire top has been segmented into hatches for a row of vertical launchers.

    The frame structure on the roof is interesting too... it is in the line of fire of the Palma system and if the rear section was for UKSK or Redut VLS systems then its presence would mean they could only fit two instead of perhaps three launcher pods.

    We need more photos and from different angles to be sure, but I think right now that you might be closer to the mark with your suggestion.

    The shape of it is quite strange though... the angled sides are strange like they should have angled weapon launchers leaning on them pointing up and backwards...

    medo
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    Re: Russia floats out new missile frigate for Caspian Sea

    Post  medo on Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:44 pm

    I don't know what will be there, but to replace helicopter pad with some structure for sure means there will be some important equipment.

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    Re: Russia floats out new missile frigate for Caspian Sea

    Post  GarryB on Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:25 am

    Keep in mind that this vessel, despite being referred to as a Frigate, because of where it is based and will operate is more like a really big patrol boat.

    90% of its time will be spent chasing caviar smugglers/poachers, and illegal fishing.

    Helicopters on board even small ships are useful, but not exactly cheap or compact in terms of the space they take up.

    For this vessel in the Caspian a land based helo or light fixed wing aircraft is cheaper and likely just as useful.

    I can understand them not fitting helicopter support facilities to this vessel considering where it is based and its likely roles.

    That is not to say they haven't put UAVs on board... many icebreakers have hand launched UAVs they can release to look for gaps and thin areas of ice... so it is not impossible that a few hand launched UAVs could be used to extend the vessels view beyond the radar horizon.

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    Re: Russia floats out new missile frigate for Caspian Sea

    Post  medo on Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:11 pm

    Vietnamese Gepards have helicopters and by size they are small frigates. Anyway I think helicopter would be still very useful although Caspian sea in closed sea or large lake, if someone more likes in that way and is divided between five states and rich with gas and oil. Helicopter would be a big help for ship on their duty in patroling and protecting oil fields.

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    Re: Russia floats out new missile frigate for Caspian Sea

    Post  runaway on Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:07 pm

    medo wrote:Vietnamese Gepards have helicopters and by size they are small frigates. Anyway I think helicopter would be still very useful although Caspian sea in closed sea or large lake, if someone more likes in that way and is divided between five states and rich with gas and oil. Helicopter would be a big help for ship on their duty in patroling and protecting oil fields.

    Agree, helicopter onboard is a huge capability.

    "The Gepard-class was designed from the outset as a lightweight, inexpensive export vessel. The Russians have offered five variants for foreign sale.
    Gepard 1: Helicopter platform (no hangar), VDS deleted.
    Gepard 2: Helicopter platform and hangar, VDS and SA-N-4 deleted.
    Gepard 3: Increased beam of 13.8 m., displacement increased to 2,100 tons full load, single forward-placed Kortik CIWS in place of AK-630s, helicopter hangar above VDS housing.
    Gepard 4: Unarmed version for search-and-rescue, though weapon mountings still in place.
    Gepard 5: helicopter platform (no hangar), increased range to 6,000 nmi (11,000 km) at 10 knots (19 km/h) knots, reduced speed of 23 knots (43 km/h), gas turbines replaced with 2 8,000 bhp (6,000 kW) diesels.

    The Vietnam People's Navy received in March and August 2011 two Gepard 3.9 class frigates originally ordered in 2006. They were built in Russia at Tatarstan's Gorky Shipbuilding Plant. Vietnam is currently examining a purchase of two more with the possibility that they will be built in Vietnam under license. [1] [2]
    "

    So a Missile frigate. Maybe they sacrifice the chopper for additional VLS.
    Not every ship needs a chopper, but at least some in a task force.
    If they have a few Gepards with choppers and a few Gepards with increased VLS capability, thats a good thought.


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    Re: Russia floats out new missile frigate for Caspian Sea

    Post  GarryB on Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:05 am

    I agree a helo adds enormous flexibility and capability to boats of all sizes, but they are also not cheap and when in restricted waters... the Caspian Sea can be considered a large lake in many regards... then it sometimes makes more sense to rely on land based aircraft when aircraft are needed.

    Vietnam will be using their vessels in deep water and might have a fairly large patrol area, which means having a helicopter traveling with them means it is available all the time will be useful.

    There will be hundreds of times more traffic moving past Vietnam than in the Caspian Sea, so the helicopter becomes a force multiplier.

    Lets face it... they have operated for years in the Caspian Sea and they know what they do or do not need... clearly they have decided they don't need a full sized helo... though of course a UAV could be carried for all we know... they are becoming quite common in Russia now.

    TheArmenian
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    Re: Russia floats out new missile frigate for Caspian Sea

    Post  TheArmenian on Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:50 am

    The third (and last) of the artillery ships (MAKHATCHKALA) for the Caspian fleet will be launched 1st quarter of 2012.


    medo
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    Re: Russia floats out new missile frigate for Caspian Sea

    Post  medo on Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:51 pm

    So soon will be all three in Caspian Sea. How is going next Buyan-M ship?

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    Re: Russia floats out new missile frigate for Caspian Sea

    Post  George1 on Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:12 am

    I see that Caspian sea is getting ships faster than black sea fleet

    GarryB
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    Re: Russia floats out new missile frigate for Caspian Sea

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:57 am

    Caspian flotilla is largely made up of rather smaller vessels, which are easier to built and quicker to build.

    There are plenty of plans for the Black Sea Fleet, and vessels on the way.

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