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    Russian arms supplies to Syria:

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    As Sa'iqa

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  As Sa'iqa on Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:43 pm

    Indeed, the Israelis got nervous when Syria started talking about getting S-300, so they must have some respect for this system.

    BTw How hard it is to jam russian SAM systems? I've heard that NATO managed to jam BUK.
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    Viktor

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    Here are explanations from romanian commandant about the S-300 and their efficiencies.

    Post  Viktor on Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:25 pm

    As Sa'iqa wrote:Indeed, the Israelis got nervous when Syria started talking about getting S-300, so they must have some respect for this system.

    BTw How hard it is to jam russian SAM systems? I've heard that NATO managed to jam BUK.

    Nato has been playing with single systems but never has it seen anything like whole Russian AD network as such can only be found in

    - Russia Laughing Laughing Laughing
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  Viktor on Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:16 pm

    Batch of Yak-130 is prepared for shipment to Syria wrote:Combat training aircraft Yak-130, previously ordered Syria, ready to ship. This is with reference to a source in the Russian delegation at "Le Bourget" reports RIA Novosti Aircraft already built now "Irkut" and stand on the site of the plant. According to the source, so far only made ​​gliders, in that upon receipt of a positive "political solution" to install the engine and avionics, and then sent to Syria. The contract for the supply of the Yak-130 was signed in December 2011, so the June 18 press conference following the G8 summit, Russian President Vladimir Putin said that the supply of arms to Damascus are manufactured in accordance with international law.Advance payment for the first six aircraft at a rate of about one hundred million dollars was transferred in June: this is reported by the newspaper "Kommersant".Yak-130 allows you to train pilots piloting fighter of the fifth generation and generation "4 + +". The cost of one plane with almost an order of magnitude ($ 15 million versus 100-150) less than the cost of combat fighters. Installed on board digital control system to simulate the behavior of other aircraft, while the "glass cockpit" (instead of electro-mechanical devices are used MFDs) makes it possible to simulate even the other booths.Due to its technical characteristics, including speed, range and service ceiling, the Yak-130 combat aircraft is noticeably inferior, although is feasible to install it 3,000 kilograms of weapons on six hardpoints.
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  Viktor on Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:53 pm

    So another confirmation that S-300 is being shipped to Syria. Very Happy

    Contract on S-300 supplies not realised in full wrote:ST PETERSBURG, June 20 (Itar-Tass) - The contract on the Russian S-300 supplies to Syria has not been realised in full, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov told Rossiya-24 TV Channel on Thursday."We're fulfilling all our contracts. Till now the contract has not been realised in full, "Lavrov said.
    Lavrov also said that Western partners are unsure they would be able to convince Syrian opposition to participate in Geneva-2.
    "As for the timing / of the conference / we offer such terms that it would be possible to determine any particular purpose, but Western partners have asked not to do it," said the Minister. According to Lavrov, they've settled on the phrase "in the near future." This, ACCORDING to Lavrov,  is Due to the Fact That the Western Partners do not believe in Their special ability to "Prevail upon" the Opposition to Take Part in the Conference.

    LINK
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  Viktor on Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:39 pm

    Now we know.

    Source: S-300 components for Syria can not be used as a weapon РИА Новости http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20130904/960645518.html#ixzz2dvIgNUw9
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    zg18

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  zg18 on Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:09 am







    http://azlok.livejournal.com/842049.html

    VDV equipment for Syria? BMD-2 and Nona?

    The guy who took fotos says , there are airborne troopers besides marines on board of BDKs. Any additional info?

    etaepsilonk

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  etaepsilonk on Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:43 pm

    Very nice, thanks for sharing  Smile 
    But are we absolutely sure that those vehicles are Russian VDV's? I mean, the uncovered BMD looks very clean, like brand new...
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    TR1

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  TR1 on Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:38 pm

    Who else could they be for?

    They have been modernizing/capremonting a bunch of BMDs lately, could be those.

    etaepsilonk

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  etaepsilonk on Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:46 pm

    TR1 wrote:Who else could they be for?

    They have been modernizing/capremonting a bunch of BMDs lately, could be those.

    They could also be destined for Syrian army, compactness and high P/W ratio could theorically make them pretty capable SF support vehicles. Just speculating...
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    TR1

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  TR1 on Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:02 pm

    They are also paper armored, and in general far less suitable to the rigors of sustained urban war than BMP-2.

    I would be shocked if when they finally decided to send armor to Syria, it would be BMDs!

    etaepsilonk

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  etaepsilonk on Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:13 pm

    TR1 wrote:They are also paper armored, and in general far less suitable to the rigors of sustained urban war than BMP-2.

    I would be shocked if when they finally decided to send armor to Syria, it would be BMDs!

    I have explicibly stated that they could be used for SF support  Neutral 
    And that wouldn't be urban combat, but rather, operations in the countryside.
    Remember those ambushes of SAA coming from time to time. How much you wanna bet, that those are specops work?  Smile 
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    TR1

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  TR1 on Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:42 pm

    I just don't see how it would be any better than BMP-2 in this scenario. Practically speaking BMD is no more mobile in the type of environment the Syrians would use it.

    The whole point of the vehicle is air-drop, it sacrifices a lot to get that. BMP simply doesn't have to make that sacrifice.

    Remember in A-stan the VDV used BMDs exactly for ambush type scenarios and such, but replaced them with BMPs as time went on, simply because they were sturdier vehicles that held up better to the tough terrain.
    BMD is just too light.

    etaepsilonk

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  etaepsilonk on Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:49 pm

    TR1 wrote:I just don't see how it would be any better than BMP-2 in this scenario. Practically speaking BMD is no more mobile in the type of environment the Syrians would use it.

    The whole point of the vehicle is air-drop, it sacrifices a lot to get that. BMP simply doesn't have to make that sacrifice.

    Remember in A-stan the VDV used BMDs exactly for ambush type scenarios and such, but replaced them with BMPs as time went on, simply because they were sturdier vehicles that held up better to the tough terrain.
    BMD is just too light.

    I think, that Syrian environment isn't nearly as rough as Afghanistan... heck, only western part has mountaneous terrain in the first place, so, not really comparable.
    Syria:
    http://www.vidiani.com/maps/maps_of_asia/maps_of_syria/detailed_topography_map_of_syria.jpg

    And Afghan
    http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/images/maps/AfghanistanRelief.png
    Compared to BMP, BMD is faster, has better fuel efficiency, is harder to spot, while having the same firepower.
    And besides, motorized SF uses technicals and light jeeps anyway, so, that paperthin armor would actually be an improvement, don't you think? Smile
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    zg18

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  zg18 on Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:20 pm

    etaepsilonk wrote:And besides, motorized SF uses technicals and light jeeps anyway, so, that paperthin armor would actually be an improvement, don't you think? Smile

    You do have a point.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:37 am

    I don't think they would send BMDs to Syria unless the VDV wanted to use them themselves.

    As TR-1 pointed out the BMDs are very light vehicles and in Afghanistan the VDV rapidly swapped them for BMP-2s as quickly as they could... it has better armour, better fire power with more ammo and more room for troops and is available in up armoured models.

    Don't get me wrong, the BMDs are light enough to be air transported and dropped so most of the time the choice is BMD or truck or jeep so the BMD is superior to these alternatives, but shipped to Syria I would say an up armoured BMP-2 and BMP-3M would be more useful.. especially the latter with its 100mm gun.
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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  Cyberspec on Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:42 am

    Apparently the deliveries (incl. armoured vehicles) have been increasing lately...


    In recent weeks Russia has stepped up supplies of military gear to Syria, including armored vehicles, drones and guided bombs, boosting President Bashar Assad just as rebel infighting has weakened the insurgency against him, sources with knowledge of the deliveries say.

    ...

    "Dozens of Antonov 124s [transport planes] have been bringing in armored vehicles, surveillance equipment, radars, electronic warfare systems, spare parts for helicopters, and various weapons including guided bombs for planes," a Middle East security source said.

    "Russian advisers and intelligence experts have been running observation UAVs around the clock to help Syrian forces track rebel positions, analyze their capabilities, and carry out precision artillery and air force strikes against them," said the source, who declined to be identified.

    Vyacheslav Davidenko, spokesman for Russia's arms export monopoly Rosoboronexport, said they could not comment on arms deliveries to Syria.

    Russia Increasing Military Equipment Deliveries to Syria, Sources Say

    etaepsilonk

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  etaepsilonk on Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:00 pm

    OK, let's consider this:
    If bmps are far more useful, than bmds, then what the heck are bmds doing in syrian port?  Rolling Eyes 

    Coz with peacekeeping operations, you mostly see Russkies with BTRs, trucks, and occasional bmp-1. And for usual sentry duty, that peacekeepers mostly do, it's not like you need much more, especially NONAs  Rolling Eyes 
    And what's the point of using nonas in peacekeeping, what those Russians are gonna do, storm Aleppo?


    To further support my theory, I must mention, that if Russia decides to support Syria militarily, most Syrian units, let's be frank, are useless for more sophisticated operations, which would require such sophisticated equipment. And that leaves only elite units, Republican guard, special forces.
    I wonder how suck crack units would utilize VERY compact, VERY mobile, VERY cross-country-able, and IFV level firepower vehicle??

    Maybe to roam countryside, attack isolated FSA checkpoints, interdict supply convoys, do reconaissance for airforce and BM force, ambushes?

    And I remind you that quite a few post Soviet countries (such as Moldova) actually uses BMDs despite having no airborne force....


    To answer Garry's quiestion about Afghanistan, again, terrain in this country is very rocky. Then BMDs were going through such terrain, especially at high speed, they risked having their thin hulls penetrated by edgey rocks. However, in Syria, terrain is MUCH less maountaneous, and pretty much in western part anyway.

    Now, of course, I don't deny, that for day-to-day use, BMPs (and BTRs) are far more suitable. However, for specialized ambushes, hit-and-run operations, and so on, BMD is much better.
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    medo

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  medo on Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:16 pm

    Doesn't naval infantry also use those Nonas as VDV?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:55 am

    OK, let's consider this:
    If bmps are far more useful, than bmds, then what the heck are bmds doing in syrian port?

    More to the point the exposed model in the photo with optics boxes on the roof of a turret but no obvious armament are the secret recon versions of the BMD which were not widely photographed even in the 1990s when they tended to show everything else.

    Perhaps they are surplus to requirements but too sophisticated to dump?

    Perhaps they are forward deploying vehicles there for VDV to use and have likely sent "observers" from the various branches of special forces to help the Syrian government the way the western governments likely sent "observers" to assist the rebels.

    They might be there for current observers or future observers.

    They clearly don't want their deployment to be a secret as any satellite would see them...

    Doesn't naval infantry also use those Nonas as VDV?
    Since 8.8.8 the cooperation between VDV and RNI has greatly increased and AFAIK they actually regularly exercise together.

    The thing is that unless they were actually planning air drop operations BMPs would be far more numerous [ie available]... cheaper... and better armoured and roomier.

    This to me suggests they are surplus to requirements...

    etaepsilonk

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  etaepsilonk on Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:53 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    OK, let's consider this:
    If bmps are far more useful, than bmds, then what the heck are bmds doing in syrian port?

    More to the point the exposed model in the photo with optics boxes on the roof of a turret but no obvious armament are the secret recon versions of the BMD which were not widely photographed even in the 1990s when they tended to show everything else.

    Perhaps they are surplus to requirements but too sophisticated to dump?

    Perhaps they are forward deploying vehicles there for VDV to use and have likely sent "observers" from the various branches of special forces to help the Syrian government the way the western governments likely sent "observers" to assist the rebels.

    They might be there for current observers or future observers.



    LOL... Wouldn't you think, that it would be much more convenient to allow Syrian forces themselves handle the operations, instead of being accused to be "supporters of the evil assad regime" by the west?
    Not even mentioning domestic political backlash, if those forces would begin to suffer casualties.

    BTW, thanks for information about recon bmd  respekt  I was myself thinking that something is not standart with that exposed vehicle, but thought it was just me being silly  Embarassed
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    medo

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  medo on Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:51 pm

    I think we miss anouther posibility. Considering, that in Novorossiysk are both naval infantry and 7th VDV division, they could also have exercises together and VDV training naval shipment as well as naval infantry training para droppings.

    etaepsilonk

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  etaepsilonk on Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:28 pm

    medo wrote:I think we miss anouther posibility. Considering, that in Novorossiysk are both naval infantry and 7th VDV division, they could also have exercises together and VDV training naval shipment as well as naval infantry training para droppings.

    ...Srsly? Rolling Eyes 
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    TR1

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  TR1 on Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:45 pm

    Well I for one am pretty convinced these vehicles have nothing to do with Syria.

    etaepsilonk

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  etaepsilonk on Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:52 pm

    Bloody hell... I just opened the link and the first word was "Novorossiysk"...  cry 
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    medo

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  medo on Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:03 pm

    etaepsilonk wrote:
    medo wrote:I think we miss anouther posibility. Considering, that in Novorossiysk are both naval infantry and 7th VDV division, they could also have exercises together and VDV training naval shipment as well as naval infantry training para droppings.

    ...Srsly? Rolling Eyes 

    Naval infantry also do trainings with parashute jumping. VDV and Naval infantry have trainings together, since both are in Novorossiysk. 7th VDV division also do mountain trainings.

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