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    Russian arms supplies to Syria:

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    Viktor

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  Viktor on Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:44 pm

    By the end of this year all 36 Pancir-S1 will be delivered.

    Then is up to Syrian army to use them as they know best.
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    nemrod

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  nemrod on Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:50 pm

    GarryB wrote:In peace time it would take a year or two to master such a system, in the current conditions I suspect it will be interesting to see if they can get it to perform properly.

    Such systems are very reliant on the tactics used and the quality of the people using it.

    U must be very well aware about russian's hardwares. I have no doubt about the quality of this weapon, however du to nearly two years gang's terrorist harassment against the national syrian army. I doubt that Syria can still afford to handle itself this sophisticated weaponry. Do not forget several that at least 15.000 syrian soldiers were dead against the gang-terrorists, and Syria is dived in horrible civil war.

    Hence, I suspect this task will be assigned to russian's staff in Syria.

    If there was not Russia's help, the gangsters mafia terrorists of Free Syrian Army, would be in Damascus, in order to allow USA to end up their Great Middle East's diabolic plan.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:37 am

    I suspect with much newer electronics and modern displays and controls these systems will be much easier to operate and maintain than previous models, but again in a civil war context they might have problems.


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    flamming_python

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  flamming_python on Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:00 pm

    The Pantsir is one system that's able to fend for itself; or rather - provide some serious fire support to neighbouring squads should it come under attack.

    Of course if you park it somewhere in a city or whatever, the advantage would be lost.
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    MIG31

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    Removed posts from Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria

    Post  MIG31 on Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:33 pm

    nemrod wrote:http://www.sana-syria.com/eng/22/2013/02/14/467212.htm



    MOSCOW, (SANA) – A Russian military source said Syria received a batch of anti-aircraft missiles and Panzer-C1 air defense systems at the beginning of the current year.

    The source said that the air defense systems were delivered in accordance with signed contracts between the two countries, pointing out that these systems were shipped to Syria by sea.

    Anatoly Isaykin, Director of the Russian Rosoboronexport Firm, stressed that technical military cooperation with Syria is progressing under international law, indicating that his country exported air defense systems to Syria according to signed contracts.

    Panzer-C1 air defense systems are highly accurate that could target all current and future air attack means available at an altitudeof 20 kilo meters high.

    The speed of each missile is 1300 meters per second, as the system allows striking four targets at once. It also could hit land and marine targets, and is to direct its fire from mobile and fixed sites.

    R. Milhem / H. Said


    I thought that Syria already has some Pantsir systems in their army arsenal, bought few years ago Suspect

    Austin

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    Russian Arms Trade Czar Says "War" Declared on Weapon Supplies to Syria

    Post  Austin on Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:45 am

    Russian Arms Trade Czar Says "War" Declared on Weapon Supplies to Syria

    Russia is facing a ‘real war’ aimed at hampering the country’s legal deliveries of weapons to Syria, the head of the Federal Service for Military and Technical Cooperation has said.

    “A real war has been declared against us,” Alexander Fomin told Ekho Moskvy radio on Friday without specifying who has declared the war.

    “The [Russian] ships are lured into ports and arrested there under various devised pretexts. When the ships are at sea, any insurance is canceled,” Fomin said adding that any attempts to deliver the contracted goods are being thwarted.

    Russia earlier said it will continue selling weapons to Damascus observing both international law and bilateral obligations, while some western countries are pushing for an embargo on Russian arms supplies to Syria, the largest importer of Russian weapons in the Middle East.
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  Viktor on Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:54 am

    Too pathetic from the west. Can not get over its little plan with Syria as things are not going as they thought they would.
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    Viktor

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    Syria and S-300

    Post  Viktor on Fri May 10, 2013 12:49 am

    Situation slightly reminds of the situation with Iran as Iran also ordered one full regiment consisting of 5 batteries

    for 800 million $. Syrian order is little larger but still with great impact on the region specially together with BUK-M2 and

    Pancir-S1.



    Shipments of missiles to Syria could destabilize Israel - Kerry


    John Kerry commented that appears in the media about the fact that Damascus allegedly paid the delivery of a Russian air defense systems S-300, the transfer of which the Syrian side could take place in the near future.


    ROME, May 9 - RIA Novosti, Natalia Shmakova. sale Syrian missiles could be a destabilizing factor for the security of Israel, said on Thursday the U.S. Secretary of State, John Kerry, commenting on the recent media information that Damascus allegedly paid the delivery of a Russian air defense systems S- 300, the transfer of which the Syrian side could take place in the near future.

    "Previously, we stated that the missiles are a potentially destabilizing factor, especially for Israel" - Kerry said at a joint press conference in Rome with Italian Foreign Minister Emma Bonino.

    However, he stressed that for its part the United States would prefer that Russia did not provide military aid to the regime of Bashar al-Assad.

    The newspaper Wall Street Journal on Thursday wrote that the Israeli authorities have warned the United States that Damascus allegedly began paying supplies from Russia six launchers and 144 missiles, the contract is estimated at $ 900 million. The agreement on the deal, according to the newspaper, was reached in 2010, and Syria recently made ​​its first payment for its execution.

    Earlier, the Russian Foreign Ministry has repeatedly stated that Russia completes delivery to Syria under the contract of air defense systems, but does not supply any weapons that could be used against the civilian population.



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    Viktor

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  Viktor on Wed May 15, 2013 6:30 pm

    Could get interesting in the coming months if something is not lost in the translation.

    If someone pays subscription - post article in full.

    Putin explained to Netanyahu why Russia shipping S-300 missiles to Syria - Kremlin spokesman


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    Sujoy

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  Sujoy on Thu May 16, 2013 12:31 am

    Viktor wrote:Could get interesting in the coming months if something is not lost in the translation.

    If someone pays subscription - post article in full.

    Sorry Viktor , the subscription link is not working at my end . That said I found something similar that has been published today by Alexey Eremenko in RIA Novosti

    If fresh media reports are true, Russia, Syria’s longtime supplier of military equipment, may soon provide Damascus – or already has – with advanced S-300 air defense systems, tipping the balance in the devastating 26-month conflict in the Middle Eastern country. But the “if” is a big one.
    The missile batteries would give Syrian President Bashar al-Assad’s regime a powerful weapon against foreign air strikes – one of the options being bounced around as a form of international intervention – and could fracture the fragile accord on Syria reached last week between Moscow and Washington, which hope to get the warring sides to negotiate.

    But verifiable information about the S-300 deal is desperately scant: Was there a deal at all? What did it cover? Has any part of it been implemented? For now, what we know about the S-300 saga, from its origins to its implications, has been based on disappearing documents, anonymous sources, rumors, approximations and misunderstandings.
    Here, RIA Novosti tries to unravel the mess and answer some of the big questions.

    - Is there really a deal to sell Russian S-300 systems to Syria? How do we know?
    Technically, it’s all hearsay. The only solid piece of evidence was a 2011 annual report by S-300’s manufacturer, the Nizhny Novgorod Machine Building Plant, which mentioned a contract for the missile systems for Syria. The report has since vanished from the plant’s website, but was cited by the respected Vedomosti business daily at the time as saying that the contract was worth $105 million and that an unspecified number of S-300 systems were slated for delivery between 2012 and early 2013.


    All other reports have been based on leaks by unnamed intelligence and diplomatic sources, including, most recently, in the prominent Russian daily Kommersant and the Wall Street Journal, which said last week that the deal includes four S-300 batteries and 144 missiles and has a price tag of $900 million, with deliveries to begin, possibly, by late summer. (One S-300 missile system is estimated by experts to cost some $115 million, plus $1 million or so per missile.)

    Damascus has never commented on the deal, and neither has the Russian arms export monopoly Rosoboronexport. The Russian Foreign Ministry has repeatedly said Russia is following through on existing contracts to supply defensive weapons, including air defense systems, to Syria, but never says what precisely they are. The lack of clarity leaves room for wild guesses: Maybe the S-300 deal was never in the cards. Or maybe a number of complexes have already been shipped over the past two years, as some media reports alleged in December.

    - Who decides whether the deal goes through? Can the international community or any third parties affect the sale?
    The deal is strictly between Moscow and Damascus – which is to say, it’s all in the hands of Russian President Vladimir Putin. International treaties on arms trade are few and far between, and tend to cover things like strategic weapons and cluster bombs, not air defense systems, however advanced they may be.

    Meanwhile, all attempts to ban arms sales to Syria via the UN Security Council have been blocked by Russia. Of course, there is behind-the-scenes haggling and arm-twisting, but that’s unofficial.
    - Why are the S-300s dangerous? They’ve been on the production line since 1978 – aren’t they outdated by now?
    The S-300 systems have been modernized repeatedly to remain state-of-the-art airplane- and rocket-destruction machines. The S-300PMU2 Favorit can launch six missiles at once, each capable of destroying aircraft flying at several times the maximum speed of the F-16 and F-22 fighter jets – the staples of the Israeli and US air forces, respectively – as well as intercepting ballistic targets.


    They can be suppressed or sabotaged by ground troops, but it is a tricky task. All this is to say, that the risk and cost of air attacks against Syria would rise dramatically.

    - Who are the targets?
    Not the Syrian rebels – they have no aircraft. And though you can technically reprogram the S-300 to hit ground targets, that would be akin to hammering nails with a tablet computer, given the price of $700,000 to $1.2 million per missile. However, any attempts by foreign powers to enforce a no-fly zone over Syria, as was done in Libya in 2011, would end in what Igor Korotchenko, the editor of the Moscow-based National Defense magazine, described as “dozens of destroyed aircraft and coffins covered by star-spangled banners. Unacceptable.”

    - What’s the possible time frame? How long until Assad can shoot foreign fighter jets out of the sky?
    The S-300 system deploys in five minutes – once it’s paid for, produced, tested, shipped, and manned by trained personnel. Some of this poses little problem: The Syrian government seems to have enough money in its pockets, and shipping from St. Petersburg to the Syrian port of Tartus takes about two weeks. That is, of course, provided the cargo does not get arrested in Finland, or the ship denied entry to European ports because its insurance was revoked – both true stories that happened to Russian ships reportedly carrying arms to Syria.

    Still, it would likely take a while before Damascus actually gets any missiles. The Wall Street Journal claims – citing US sources citing Israeli sources – that the shipments may begin arriving by August, while the London-based,
    Arab-language Al-Quds Al-Arabi newspaper said they are already in Syria, though still under Russian supervision. However, according to Russian arms experts, the manufacturer is unlikely to have ready-to-ship S-300 systems lying on the shelves: Whatever leftovers there were from a deal with Iran, scrapped in 2010, were long ago snatched up by other customers such as Algeria, according to Ruslan Pukhov of the Center for Analysis of Strategy and Technologies, a for-profit research group in Moscow. This means the systems would need to be produced and test launches conducted, a job that would take about a year, Pukhov said. Furthermore, dozens or even hundreds of staff would have to be trained to operate the complicated machinery, which should take about six months. This would push Assad’s most optimistic deadline of owning fully operable S-300 complexes to November at best, with spring of 2014 being a more realistic estimate.
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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  Cyberspec on Sat May 18, 2013 1:56 pm

    Seems the odds of Syria getting the S-300 have increased, judging by the flurry of reports. An interesting one is that of an ANNA correspondent (Abkhasian News Agency that reports on the Syria war) has apparently spoken to Syrian officers in Russia undergoing training on the S-300.

    Arab-American point of view...

    S-300 Air Defense: Don't Expect Russia to Stop Shipping Arms to Assad

    Syria agreed to purchase four S-300 antiaircraft missile batteries from Russia in 2010 for $900 million. The first shipment could come in three months and the final one by the end of the year. Syrian air defenses are already five times more sophisticated than Libya’s and 10 times more sophisticated than what NATO faced in Serbia.

    Full article below
    http://www.policymic.com/articles/40975/s-300-air-defense-don-t-expect-russia-to-stop-shipping-arms-to-assad

    And "Debka" the Israeli Izvestiya, claims they've already arrived in Syria

    Four Russian S-300 batteries shipped to Syria
    http://www.debka.com/newsupdate/4434/


    Viktor wrote:Could get interesting in the coming months if something is not lost in the translation.

    If someone pays subscription - post article in full.

    Putin explained to Netanyahu why Russia shipping S-300 missiles to Syria - Kremlin spokesman


    LINK


    I haven't got the original article but there is talk that Putin and Netanyahu had a "frank" discussion during which Netanyahu said Israel reserved the right to attack the S-300 sites while Putin apparently threatened to supply Syria with Iskander missiles if Israel continues it's aggressive policy
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  Viktor on Sat May 18, 2013 6:06 pm

    Now that it seems certain that S-300 missiles will be delivered to Syria it remains to see what type, how many and if any additional

    equipment.


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    TR1

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  TR1 on Sun May 19, 2013 3:57 am

    Ugh, not too happy about these news.

    Should deliver S-300 to the poor Iranians though.
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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun May 19, 2013 2:18 pm

    Personally I think it's great news if confirmed. They should have been shipped a lot earlier actually. It would make a foreign intervention less likely and hopefully lead to meaningful talks.
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    TR1

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  TR1 on Sun May 19, 2013 2:37 pm

    A few S-300 batteries won't make Syria invincible. If a well equipped enemy wants to take them out, chances they will.

    Potential bad publicity for S-300 is all I can see this ending in. As long as its S-300PM or something similarly elderly, no problem as bad though.

    Not to mention I am not amused at my tax money being used to protect Asad, but that is a whole-nother story.
    Somehow I doubt the Syrians are paying in cash, though I could be wrong.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  GarryB on Sun May 19, 2013 4:44 pm

    They should have been shipped a lot earlier actually. It would make a foreign intervention less likely and hopefully lead to meaningful talks.

    Times two... and I agree with TR-1 that Iran should get the missiles it paid for too... and believe it or not I am not saying this because I want to see dead US or Israeli pilots... I am saying this because the US is not really treating Syria with any real respect and perhaps if they have the capacity to stop interventions then it will make the US more inclined to talk rather than bomb.

    For those whining about supplying a dictator... he was elected you moron... how about the US stops supplying weapons to terrorists that are know to include Al Quada and Chechen separatists responsible for much worse.


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    Viktor

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  Viktor on Mon May 20, 2013 7:36 am

    Cyberspec wrote:Personally I think it's great news if confirmed. They should have been shipped a lot earlier actually. It would make a foreign intervention less likely and hopefully lead to meaningful talks.

    That blame is on Syria. They did not want to modernize their army before they settled debt issue from SU with Russia. And that took

    quite a long time.
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    Zivo

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  Zivo on Mon May 20, 2013 12:10 pm

    For those whining about supplying a dictator... he was elected you moron... how about the US stops supplying weapons to terrorists that are know to include Al Quada and Chechen separatists responsible for much worse.

    No words can describe the anger I have towards my government regarding their support for terrorists. Mad
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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  Cyberspec on Tue May 21, 2013 12:58 pm

    So where are the reports of clandestine flights by foreign aircraft to take advantage of these "massive" holes as in other previous similar wars? Not even recce UAV's which you would expect to see. Not that long ago (early 2000's), Israeli fighters were breaking the sound barrier over Damascus...
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  Viktor on Fri May 31, 2013 6:50 pm

    Another interesting thing. After EU lifted arms embargo on Syrian bandits, Russia is on supplying arms offensive in Syria.

    MIGs will be delivered.

    What is most interesting also is that Serbians believed that Syrian MIGs would be delivered to them (after they signed contract for

    6 fighters) and it was common belief that Syrian MIGs would be delivered to Iraq (contract apparently in preparation). With this new

    development it seems that

    - Syrian 24 MIG-29M
    - Iraq xx MIG-29M
    - Serbian 6 MIG-29M (in first phase)

    are all separate contracts and with 40 new MIG-35 for the Russian airforce, MIG is about to overthrow Gripen with the numbers ordered.


    Russia has promised to deliver to Syria MiG-29


    The Russian MiG-29 will be delivered by Syria in accordance with the contract. On it informs "Interfax" referring to the CEO of the corporation "MiG" Sergei Korotkov.

    According to him, to discuss the details of the contract for combat aircraft specially arrived Syrian delegation. "I think they will be delivered to Syria," - said Korotkov. He added that he planned to put about 10 MiG-29M (singles) and MiG-29M2 (doubles). Terms of the contract Korotkov did not elaborate.

    In 2007, Syria has ordered 24 Russian military aircraft MiG-29, but they are delivered so far have not been as on the regime of Bashar al-Assad have been introduced to international sanctions. Some of them in this regard, it was decided to sell to other countries, such as Serbia.

    In the summer of 2012 it was reported that Russia has postponed the delivery to Syria 20 combat helicopters Mi-25 to "normalcy" in the country. An informed source "Interfax" then stated that Moscow is concerned over the deteriorating situation in Syria and opposition to military activity, in which the Syrian authorities "can not guarantee safe acceptance of helicopters."

    March 1, 2013 the head of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSMTC) Alexander Fomin complained that Western countries are blocking all attempts to Russia to fulfill the agreement signed with Syria. "We have announced a very real undeclared war: our sea and air transport is arrested, under various pretexts, lured to the ports is blocked ... that is blocking any attempt to deliver the contracted goods "- then said Fomin.

    The confrontation between the regime of Bashar al-Assad and the opposition, which grew into a civil war going on in Syria since the spring of 2011. Russia in the conflict and trying to support Assad to give them financial and technical support, causing dissatisfaction Western countries supporting the opposition.


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    Corrosion

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  Corrosion on Fri May 31, 2013 9:43 pm

    ^^^ Lets see what hot-heads has to say regarding Mig29s
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    SOC

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  SOC on Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:36 pm

    GarryB wrote:I am saying this because the US is not really treating Syria with any real respect and perhaps if they have the capacity to stop interventions then it will make the US more inclined to talk rather than bomb.

    What. The US doesn't seem to be in a mood to do much of anything. Which I'm willing to bet is because more and more advanced air defense components have made their way into Syria. Chinese radars, Russian missiles, and modern ones at that...a far cry from the laughable IADS in place in Libya or Iraq. You can bet this has given the US pause, as they've never dealt with such a network before.

    Viktor wrote:EU lifted arms embargo on Syrian bandits

    Good. Now let the EU send weapons to the Syrian insurrectionists, and then we can all realize that EVERYONE has done it at some point, so idiotic arguments based on past actions by completely different administrations can be over and done with.

    Cyberspec wrote:Not that long ago (early 2000's), Israeli fighters were breaking the sound barrier over Damascus...

    Syria upgraded to Windows 8, making all of Israel's viruses worthless.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:51 pm

    What. The US doesn't seem to be in a mood to do much of anything.

    If the US stated that the Syrian rebels include Al Quada and that all support for them should stop you would suddenly see weapon and advisor support stop and the artificial uprising would collapse overnight.



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    Viktor

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  Viktor on Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:16 pm

    Batch of Yak-130 is prepared for shipment to Syria wrote:Combat training aircraft Yak-130, previously ordered Syria, ready to ship. This is with reference to a source in the Russian delegation at "Le Bourget" reports RIA Novosti Aircraft already built now "Irkut" and stand on the site of the plant. According to the source, so far only made ​​gliders, in that upon receipt of a positive "political solution" to install the engine and avionics, and then sent to Syria. The contract for the supply of the Yak-130 was signed in December 2011, so the June 18 press conference following the G8 summit, Russian President Vladimir Putin said that the supply of arms to Damascus are manufactured in accordance with international law.Advance payment for the first six aircraft at a rate of about one hundred million dollars was transferred in June: this is reported by the newspaper "Kommersant".Yak-130 allows you to train pilots piloting fighter of the fifth generation and generation "4 + +". The cost of one plane with almost an order of magnitude ($ 15 million versus 100-150) less than the cost of combat fighters. Installed on board digital control system to simulate the behavior of other aircraft, while the "glass cockpit" (instead of electro-mechanical devices are used MFDs) makes it possible to simulate even the other booths.Due to its technical characteristics, including speed, range and service ceiling, the Yak-130 combat aircraft is noticeably inferior, although is feasible to install it 3,000 kilograms of weapons on six hardpoints.
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russian arms supplies to Syria:

    Post  Viktor on Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:53 pm

    So another confirmation that S-300 is being shipped to Syria. Very Happy

    Contract on S-300 supplies not realised in full wrote:ST PETERSBURG, June 20 (Itar-Tass) - The contract on the Russian S-300 supplies to Syria has not been realised in full, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov told Rossiya-24 TV Channel on Thursday."We're fulfilling all our contracts. Till now the contract has not been realised in full, "Lavrov said.
    Lavrov also said that Western partners are unsure they would be able to convince Syrian opposition to participate in Geneva-2.
    "As for the timing / of the conference / we offer such terms that it would be possible to determine any particular purpose, but Western partners have asked not to do it," said the Minister. According to Lavrov, they've settled on the phrase "in the near future." This, ACCORDING to Lavrov,  is Due to the Fact That the Western Partners do not believe in Their special ability to "Prevail upon" the Opposition to Take Part in the Conference.

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