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    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News

    Cyberspec
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    Post  Cyberspec on Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:32 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:Mi-8 AMTSh-VN said to include various improvements based on the Syrian experience....
    It's likely to be used in the planned Aviation Brigades for the VDV and SOF

    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News - Page 12 Dlya_vdv_sozdadut_vertoletnuyu_boevuyu_mashinu_desanta_1

    Contract signed for first 10 samples to be delivered in 2020/21

    https://www.aex.ru/news/2019/6/27/198978/
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    Post  Cyberspec on Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:07 pm

    Interesting...

    Mi-8 with "Bosfor-2" jammer

    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News - Page 12 228206
    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News - Page 12 8umWogR
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:19 pm

    Interesting... also note it retains its under wing pylons so presumably it can be fully armed as well....
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    Post  Cyberspec on Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:26 am

    GarryB wrote:Interesting... also note it retains its under wing pylons so presumably it can be fully armed as well....

    Yes, looks like it...

    __________

    Not sure if this is the right place for this?

    General parameters of the future high speed helo

    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News - Page 12 File
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:27 am

    Cyberspec wrote:....

    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News - Page 12 File


    Well image definitely fits the original description.

    Anyone​ care to guess why they opted for intermeshing rotors?

    They have so much experience with coaxial ones I always assumed that setup will be default.
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    Post  Cyberspec on Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:56 am

    Could be just one of the candidates
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    Post  x_54_u43 on Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:25 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Cyberspec wrote:....

    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News - Page 12 File


    Well image definitely fits the original description.

    Anyone​ care to guess why they opted for intermeshing rotors?

    They have so much experience with coaxial ones I always assumed that setup will be default.

    Perhaps lower height overall and less mechanical complexity?

    We saw how one of the future technologies being researched for Russian helos was electric drive, an intermeshing rotor system would take that to full effect.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:14 pm

    I am not seeing anything... are you using this forums upload function with an image or are you hotlinking?
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    Post  AMCXXL on Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:55 am

    Cyberspec wrote:Mi-8 AMTSh-VN said to include various improvements based on the Syrian experience....
    It's likely to be used in the planned Aviation Brigades for the VDV and SOF

    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News - Page 12 Dlya_vdv_sozdadut_vertoletnuyu_boevuyu_mashinu_desanta_1

    This helicopter has improvements for opérate in special conditions , as deserts with heat and dry , or mountain with high alttitude



    The VDV lost all its squadrons in 2010 and will not have aviation again

    Even the composite squadron of the academy of the VDV in Ryazan it became dependent on the Command of the Aviation of Military Transport (KVTA)


    Now, all the aircrafts assets are in the VKS or the Navy

    The Army Aviation (Helicopters) were transfered to VVS in 2003

    Also the Aviation of Missile Tropps (RVSN) , NBQ Troops (RKhBZ) , Space Troops (KB) and VDV troops , wrere transfered to VVS about 2010.


    So now , VKS service all the other branches of the armed forces
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    Post  Cyberspec on Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:20 pm

    AMCXXL wrote:The VDV lost all its squadrons in 2010 and will not have aviation again...

    Never say never....they're planning on bringing back separate Aviation Brigades (mainly helicopters and some light transports) under VDV command or at least allocated for their use by the VKS. The idea is to increase the use of helicopters instead of just mass division sized parachute jumps as in the Soviet period

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    Post  AMCXXL on Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:33 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:
    AMCXXL wrote:The VDV lost all its squadrons in 2010 and will not have aviation again...

    Never say never....they're planning on bringing back separate Aviation Brigades (mainly helicopters and some light transports) under VDV command or at least allocated for their use by the VKS. The idea is to increase the use of helicopters instead of just mass division sized parachute jumps as in the Soviet period



    The aviation of VDV is the VTA comand (more than one hundred of Il-76 for preferent service to the VDV) and the Army Aviation of VKS , with 4 brigades and 8 regiments , totalling more than 300 Mi-8AMTSh and Mi-8MTV-5 assault helicopters (out of more than 400 ordered in total for receive until end of 2020)

    With the existing units in the VKS, the total number of helicopters will be over 1500 when units are completed. Not place for more

    Thet you say is very old, of 2010 or before,  when started the supply of Mi-8AMTSh and Mi-8MTV-5 to the tropos


    Bondarev changed totally the Air Force , He changed VKS a lot and for the better. Not come back

    The current complete name of each Military Mistrict are called oficially:

    Joint Strategic Command of XXXXX Military  District

    This means is a joint forcé, not more subdivisions of the Aviation Forces, all are under the same joint command


    The airborne tropps already work joint the VKS aircraft
    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News - Page 12 Mi-8am10
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    Post  George1 on Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:20 pm

    Russia’s new Mi-38 transport helicopters to start arriving for troops in 2019

    https://tass.com/defense/1073004
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:30 am

    Russia’s new Mi-38 transport helicopters to start arriving for troops in 2019

    Wow, that was a bit quicker than I expected... will be interesting to see how quickly they can get other variations out too.

    Not sure if this is the right place for this?

    General parameters of the future high speed helo

    Now I can see it... hmm... with the tail pusher blades and the angle of the blades out the sides you could only safely approach this helicopter from the front, and on a ship it would be a very stupid design because on a ship the biggest danger with a helo is the tail rotor, well with this helicopter it is not just the tail rotor it is also the main rotor blades out to the sides... so a shift in wind direction has that tail rotor swinging around on the deck but also those main rotor blades swinging low over the deck in all directions.

    I rather suspect this is for land based only ops and is probably one option... they will normally put up multiple designs so they can properly evaluate advantages and disadvantages directly before making their decision.

    x_54_u43 mentions electric motor direct drive rotors, but that would actually be an advantage for the coaxial arrangement... with intermeshing blades you need to seriously control rotor speed because both sets of blades cross arcs and could therefore hit the other set of blades if they were running faster than the other set.

    With fully coaxial blades like they normally use speeding up or slowing down one set of blades is yaw control and it is vastly superior to conventional helicopters because above about 50-60km per hour the tail rotor has little to no effect as the aerodynamic forces of the air flowing over the helicopters shape has vastly more effect on where the nose is pointing. In comparison the Ka-50 or any other coaxial rotor helo can turn at will by speeding up or slowing down one set of rotors as obviously each set of rotors has enormous momentum and can turn the aircraft against the force of wind flow up to about 100km/h in any direction... for a transport that is not important but for an armed helo being able to point your nose at a target in most flight conditions is very useful... like a fighter aircraft... it was a feature they talked a lot about with the Commanche design... until the figures for the Hokum were revealed and then the Americans shut up about how useful it was.

    The reason the Hokum has limited rotation of its gun was because its pedal turns at low speed were so fast and responsive... they didn't need a turret so they could locate the gun mount near the cg and get a much much more accurate weapon because it shakes the aircraft around much less when firing... even compared with the Havoc which is a similar aircraft weight and the same gun.

    The main problem with coaxials is of course the height to keep the blades apart, and a complex and heavy gearbox to manage rotor speed and rotation.

    With electric motors you don't need gearboxes and just regulate electrical power to change blade rotation speed and blade angle etc etc.

    I suspect they will reveal this design in the hope of getting a foreign partner to help develop it and give it a chance if it loses the competition for the Russian programme... for the same reason the Mi-28 was revealed about 4-5 years before the Ka-50 because the Ka-50 was the hot favourite and won the competition for the replacement of the Hind... of course later on requirements for night ops meant a two seater was needed, hense the Ka-52. (night and bad weather flying is a full time job for the pilot so you need another crew member to hit targets etc)
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    Post  AMCXXL on Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:36 am

    George1 wrote:Russia’s new Mi-38 transport helicopters to start arriving for troops in 2019

    https://tass.com/defense/1073004

    I doubt it very much, at the moment there are only prototypes and after that you have to do the state tests.

    The MiG-35 is still with the state tests despite carrying announcing that "have been delivered to the troops" for two or three years

    The most probable is Mi-38 will be handed over to the tropos after the Mi-8 of the same factory end the replacement  of the regiments and brigades
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:06 am

    AMCXXL wrote:
    George1 wrote:Russia’s new Mi-38 transport helicopters to start arriving for troops in 2019

    https://tass.com/defense/1073004

    I doubt it very much, at the moment there are only prototypes and after that you have to do the state tests.

    The MiG-35 is still with the state tests despite carrying announcing that "have been delivered to the troops" for two or three years

    The most probable is Mi-38 will be handed over to the tropos after the Mi-8 of the same factory end the replacement  of the regiments and brigades

    Handed to the troops for state tests most likely.
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    Post  AMCXXL on Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:13 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    AMCXXL wrote:
    George1 wrote:Russia’s new Mi-38 transport helicopters to start arriving for troops in 2019

    https://tass.com/defense/1073004

    I doubt it very much, at the moment there are only prototypes and after that you have to do the state tests.

    The MiG-35 is still with the state tests despite carrying announcing that "have been delivered to the troops" for two or three years

    The most probable is Mi-38 will be handed over to the tropos after the Mi-8 of the same factory end the replacement of the regiments and brigades

    Handed to the troops for state tests most likely.

    The state test are made not only by the ministry of defence, also by the Ministry of Industry in order to certificate the aircraft. After that, the aircraft are usually stored in Zhukovsky aerodrome of the Gromov Technological Institute

    here:
    https://www.google.es/maps/@55.5729445,38.1474438,835m/data=!3m1!1e3

    In the case of helicopters, really i am not sure were are stored at the end, in some cases in the onw factory
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    Post  Cyberspec on Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:32 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:Mi-8 AMTSh-VN said to include various improvements based on the Syrian experience....
    It's likely to be used in the planned Aviation Brigades for the VDV and SOF

    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News - Page 12 Dlya_vdv_sozdadut_vertoletnuyu_boevuyu_mashinu_desanta_1


    The Mi-8 AMTSh-VN helicopters are to receive the 'LSZ-8VN' self-protection system....haven't heard about this one before.


    The helicopters were to defense systems "lsz-8VN", which is able to detect the launch of missiles at the helicopter, jamming and emission of heat decoys

    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/2019918152-N67WP.html
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    Post  George1 on Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:49 am

    The new Mi-26 in arctic coloring

    A photo taken by the famous Rostov spotter Erik Romanenko of a photograph of a factory tested new heavy Mi-26 transport helicopter built for the Russian Ministry of Defense at Rostvertol JSC (part of Russian Helicopters JSC) in Rostov-on-Don. the helicopter has a characteristic "Arctic color" and tail number "71 red".

    According to the author of the image, "this is the second Mi-26 to receive such a coloring."

    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News - Page 12 Mi-2610

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3797467.html
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    Post  Isos on Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:10 am


    Rob Lee
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    Russian Helicopters announced that it will unite its Mil and Kamov design bureaus into a single structure, the National Center for Helicopter Engineering (NTsV), which is expected to be completed by 2022. The new center will be based at Mil's facilities.

    https://tass.ru/ekonomika/6987647/amp?__twitter_impression=true
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:40 am

    Cyberspec wrote:
    Cyberspec wrote:Mi-8 AMTSh-VN said to include various improvements based on the Syrian experience....
    It's likely to be used in the planned Aviation Brigades for the VDV and SOF

    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News - Page 12 Dlya_vdv_sozdadut_vertoletnuyu_boevuyu_mashinu_desanta_1

    Contract signed for first 10 samples to be delivered in 2020/21

    https://www.aex.ru/news/2019/6/27/198978/

    I didn't really have a good look at this image when you posted it but now that I do it looks interesting in that there is no DIRCM turrets on the wing tips as with other models, but what I found interesting was the armament... what appears to be an iron bomb on the inner pylon but the large red fairing suggests a guided weapon... laser or optical? Then of course the 80mm rocket pod and the ATAKA/SHTURM/Krisantema ATGM in a pack of four missiles with a Kord HMG on top of the weapon pylon.

    I have seen other guns mounted in that position on other Soviet helos... there was one version of the Ka-29 where a 30mm cannon was located where this Kord was fitted and of course it only had two weapon pylons... in that case with a rocket pod and four ATGMs of the Shturm or Ataka models.

    I wonder what other above the pylon gun mounts they can use... 30mm and 40mm grenade launchers? 23mm and 30mm cannon? The new 57mm grenade launchers? Perhaps even an 82mm gun/mortar mount with boosted recoil management to reduce the impact of the recoil.

    The location of the guns above the weapon wing arms suggests the ammo feeds could be located to lead into the main cabin so a large supply of ready to fire ammo could be carried if needed inside the main cabin.

    It could carry tens of thousands of rifle calibre rounds or several thousand grenades or HMG or cannon rounds if needed.

    With guidance kits for unguided rockets they could have the inner pylon fitted with 2x 5 shot 122mm rocket pods and then 2x 20 shot 80mm rocket pods and the outer pylon could be either ATGMs like Shturm or Ataka which are cheap but accurate and powerful enough for most targets on the battlefield, or you could go for two x 32 shot 57mm rocket pods.

    With terminal guidance you could loft these rockets out to max range to stay out of small arms fire range, yet with guided rockets the high probability would still be excellent... an enemy toyota light ute with a HMG on the back could be taken out with a single 57mm rocket for 4-5km range for instance...
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:11 am

    Cyberspec wrote:Interesting...

    Mi-8 with "Bosfor-2" jammer

    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News - Page 12 228206
    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News - Page 12 8umWogR

    Didn't really look closely at this image either and just saw the boxes mounted above the wing pylons... I didn't look at the full sized images and notice that weird metal frame antenna mounted behind the flare launchers and the other much smaller antenna mounted slightly further back on the tail boom...

    Thanks for posting... Smile Interesting.

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