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    Russian military undecided whether to match US Χ-37 spaceplane

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    Ogannisyan8887

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    Russian military undecided whether to match US Χ-37 spaceplane

    Post  Ogannisyan8887 on Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:10 pm

    Official: Russian military undecided about whether to match latest US spaceplane

    By Vladimir Isachenkov


    MOSCOW — The Russian military closely monitored last year's flight of a new U.S. spaceplane but hasn't decided whether it needs a similar craft, a top general said Thursday.
    Russia's Space Forces chief, Lt. Gen. Oleg Ostapenko, was quoted by Russian news agencies as saying that the military knows all about the orbital manoeuvrs of the U.S. X-37B unmanned spaceplane during its maiden flight of more than seven months.
    The U.S. Air Force said the primary purpose of the flight, which ended in December, was to test the craft itself, but classified its actual activities in orbit, leading to speculation about whether it carried some type of spying system.
    Ostapenko said Russia has conducted preliminary work on a similar design but that no decision has been made on whether it needs such a craft. "Time will show whether we shall imitate that project, but everyone must remember that there always is a counteraction to any action," he said.
    Military analysts have been skeptical about Russia's ability to mount a response to the new U.S. robotic spacecraft.
    Russia's ability to match the latest Western weapons designs has been weakened because its defence industries were hurt by the post-Soviet industrial meltdown and lack of modern technologies. But Ostapenko said efforts are under way to develop a missile defence system.
    "Works are in progress to build prototypes and test some parts, systems and components," Ostapenko said, adding that the military has been testing prospective missile defence weapons at a Soviet-era testing range that Russia leases from Kazakhstan. He gave no specifics.
    Ostapenko's comment followed Defence Minister Anatoly Serdyukov as saying Wednesday that Russia is working to develop its own missile defence system.
    Russia has a Soviet-designed system of interceptor missiles to protect Moscow from ballistic missiles, but analysts say that the shield is outdated and has limited efficiency.
    The Kremlin has criticized U.S. plans for space-based weapons, saying they could trigger a new arms race. Moscow also has voiced concern about the prospective U.S. missile shield, fearing it could erode its nuclear deterrent.
    NATO has approved a plan for a U.S.-led missile defence in Europe last fall and invited Russia to join. Russia's President Dmitry Medvedev was receptive of NATO's proposal but didn't make a definitive commitment.
    Medvedev has warned that the failure to reach agreement on a joint European missile shield with Russia may force it to deploy new offensive weapons and trigger a new arms race.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian military undecided whether to match US Χ-37 spaceplane

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:01 am

    They really need to think long and hard about this before they blow large amounts of money on it.
    This sort of technology could have many useful commercial spinoffs, but it could just as easily be a huge money pit too.

    The Buran shuttle is a case in point of enormous irony.

    When it was built they had the benefit of experience from the US Space shuttles advantages and faults so they made a much better craft. The problem was that they didn't really need it because they had the Mir space station.

    At the time the US only had rockets so the Space Shuttle was their only option for manned use for a week or so experiments.

    The Soviets on the other hand had a string of space stations that ended in Mir (though technically the ISS is Mir 2) and therefore didn't need a space shuttle.

    The huge irony is the name... space shuttle.

    Makes it sound ideal for supporting a space station but in actual fact it is enormously expensive and really only useful for very precise orbital release of satellites or the recovery of satellites and of course to repair hubble.

    It is 20 times more expensive than the small cargo rockets the Soviets used to support their space station.

    The irony is that the Soviet Buran corrected most of the Space Shuttles problems and would have been ideal to use to build the ISS but only a couple were made and one lost in an accident (the hangar collapsed on it), so after one flight in automatic mode the Buran was not used again.

    The difference between SS and Buran is that SS are large heavy aircraft that need an enormous external fuel tank and two solid rocket boosters to get airborne. Solid rocket fuel is quite toxic and very expensive and once it is going you can't shut it down.
    The main engines are in the SS and weigh about 10 tons which after launch are dead weight for the entire trip.
    The main fuel tank is recovered and goes and gets checked and put back into shape and reused... which is expensive.
    The Buran on the other hand is a glider that sits on an Energyia rocket. The difference is that when building the 300 ton ISS in space actually fitting pieces together in zero gravity is fiddly and slow, so the larger the pieces you can take up already assembled the better. With the Buran you can take the 110 ton Buran off the Energyia and put a large part of the space station on it in a fairing and launch it in one piece.

    You could put it together much quicker and easier.

    But of course the main reason they built the Buran was that they suspected the SS was actually a military aircraft and might be used to attack Moscow with a nuclear bomb so they wanted the same capability.

    They spent an enormous fortune designing and building something they ended up not using... and because they didn't use it it became neglected and by the time they could have used it it was not in a fit state to be used even if they could afford to.

    They are currently working on a nuclear propulsion unit for use in a space tug to help clear the rubbish in orbit and also for future long flight missions... I would think once that is ready then building more spacecraft will become much more interesting.

    Pervius

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    Re: Russian military undecided whether to match US Χ-37 spaceplane

    Post  Pervius on Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:45 pm

    The Polyus really was the predecessor of the X-37b. A military space tool. Russian President forbid it's laser from being used in space to prevent a Military Space Build Up. After it's guidance malfunctioned and burnt up in reentry the project was abandoned. Russia didn't want to militarize space.

    Then America goes and launches the X-37b. Looks like Russia should have fixed Polyus's guidance software and put in space long ago eh?

    The militarization of space has begun.

    Vann7

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    Re: Russian military undecided whether to match US Χ-37 spaceplane

    Post  Vann7 on Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:05 am

    never new the Buran space shuttle was being build as a military weapon and that it was so advanced
    the things it could do..in space.. Shocked  



    anyone knows if Russia have plans to design another space shuttle?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian military undecided whether to match US Χ-37 spaceplane

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:18 am

    The only reason Buran got built was because the Russians thought the US Space Shuttle was a military weapon.

    75% of its launches were with classified payloads that were secret so they weren't that wrong, but they thought it might be used as a space fighter for taking out enemy satellites or capturing them like in that bond movie. they also thought it could be used as a bomber.

    Once they realised it wasn't very practical as a bomber the funding largely stopped.

    As a shuttle from earth to a space station the US Space Shuttle is a horrible failure... grossly expensive and inefficient. For fixing Hubble or retrieving satellites for repair then it is excellent.


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    George1

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    Re: Russian military undecided whether to match US Χ-37 spaceplane

    Post  George1 on Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:19 am

    we must also note that Buran was unmanned

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    Re: Russian military undecided whether to match US Χ-37 spaceplane

    Post  Vann7 on Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:00 am



    SO is there any hope for Russia to revive their space shuttle program?
    that was the coolest thing imo that Russia ever made. Very Happy And it could even launch mini projectiles
    armed with nukes from its belly .. Shocked That was indeed like science fiction but made it real.

    my top wish will be...

    1)Russia to revive space shuttle but far more ambitious.. with the capability to lift 300 tons of cargo to space..
    and the ability to go to the moon orbit and deploy a base there.

    2)that could be used for space tourism.

    3)a new giant space station in space that could be used to build Giant space rockets to mars.. or mini cities in space.






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    GarryB

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    Buran military spacecraft

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:51 am

    we must also note that Buran was unmanned

    It was designed to be operated by a human crew, but its only flight was done on autopilot.

    SO is there any hope for Russia to revive their space shuttle program?

    Not the old system, but having a really powerful energyia rocket you could piggy back payloads like Buran onto would be very useful for constructing a large space ship in earth orbit to launch towards Mars or the moon.

    my top wish will be...

    Building large space craft in space and then ferrying fuel to fuel it up while in orbit and then launching it to orbit the moon or Mars would be cool and useful, but not cheap.

    perhaps it could be a BRICSA program.

    But I don't expect us to get anywhere in terms of tech progress in the next 40 years at this rate. So we'll be stalled for a good
    80 years. It seems to me to be an industry culture problem and not the result of physical barriers. I haven't seen any radical
    designs proposed by NASA or the RSA.

    Actually technology has moved forward in many areas, but in terms of propulsion and radiation protection we need some ground breaking leaps.

    rather than spin the craft, the ideal will be ion engines that generate say 0.5 g acceleration. this would make the trip to mars or anywhere else much shorter and also make life easier on a spacecraft.

    In zero g there is no natural air circulation... if you stay in one place with no fans blowing air around the place you would quickly suffocate as the carbon dioxide built to toxic levels around you.

    Even minor levels of g force would allow a proper natural air circulation to be created... making fans less necessary.

    I see the current innovation as the privatization of space, demonstrated by SpaceX etc.

    Also the potential for mining would create growth...


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    Viktor

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    Re: Russian military undecided whether to match US Χ-37 spaceplane

    Post  Viktor on Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:40 pm

    Nice  thumbsup


    EKO: Russia is developing a response to the US space plane bomber

    Russia is developing a response to the American system of the X-37, said on Saturday, deputy commander of the East Kazakhstan region on defense, Major General Kirill Makarov.

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    Re: Russian military undecided whether to match US Χ-37 spaceplane

    Post  Vann7 on Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:42 pm

    Viktor wrote:Nice  thumbsup


    EKO: Russia is developing a response to the US space plane bomber

    Russia is developing a response to the American system of the X-37, said on Saturday, deputy commander of the East Kazakhstan region on defense, Major General Kirill Makarov.

    I wish Russia didn't was so reactionary and developing things only to counter it when Americans
    Do it.. or testing it.  The X-37 could easily be used to launch nuclear attacks from space and will not follow a ballistic trajectory , but instead a near straight line.  from Top to down. it could also be used to shutdown satellites or sabotage them.. like putting into orbit 100kg of tnt , near every enemy satellite , like a road side bomb but in space. and could be detonated by control remote.. lets say destroy 10-20 satellites without warning at the same time.. Any nation that lose its satellites will have no way to do precision nuclear attacks or conventional ones at long range.


    The future is on space , militarization of it.. is the only way ,to keep Americans on its place..
    It will break treaties for sure . but they do it too.. they are militarizing Russian borders.
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    Project Canada

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    Re: Russian military undecided whether to match US Χ-37 spaceplane

    Post  Project Canada on Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:40 pm

    US to develop reusable spacecraft to launch military satellites quickly & cheaply



    Don't have anything to do with Russian space program but the successful creation of this spacecraft from a hostile nation to Russia will cause great disadvantage for Russia and potentially deal severe damage to the prospects of RF's space industry. I do hope Russia has a rival program for this cheap satellite lunch system
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian military undecided whether to match US Χ-37 spaceplane

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:43 pm

    Yeah, much like their shuttle program, right? Haha. And Russia can launch minisats with a MiG-31....

    It wont be both. Either it will be cheap or reusable.

    They seem to have quite the ambitions. With also facing reduced budgets and importing engines.

    Ill wait to see it to believe it.
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    max steel

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    Re: Russian military undecided whether to match US Χ-37 spaceplane

    Post  max steel on Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:00 pm

    Exactly I agree with seph dont get carried away by looking their desirable projekts. They were hyping over a new hypersonic arclight missile and later they terminated it.
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    kvs

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    Re: Russian military undecided whether to match US Χ-37 spaceplane

    Post  kvs on Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:25 pm

    Project Canada wrote:US to develop reusable spacecraft to launch military satellites quickly & cheaply


    In four years? Please put the crack pipe down, RT, Boeing et al.

    The current level of funding ($6.5 million) indicates pure paper research and not development work.



    mutantsushi

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    Re: Russian military undecided whether to match US Χ-37 spaceplane

    Post  mutantsushi on Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:33 pm

    If this was about cheap for commercial market, it would be funded by NASA, not US DOD.
    US DOD launches on legacy rockets are crazy expensive, so cheap by that standard doesn't mean shit re: commercial market.
    Russia probably should continue to pursue it's re-usability projects, and their next-gen natural gas fueled launcher enables that.
    (less deposits on engine allowing more re-usability)
    But the competition there is commercial producers like SpaceX, the ULA/BlueOrigin project, and ESA, not US DOD babies.
    SpaceX's reusability is incidentally the least efficient, trying to return the entire launcher, ULA (and now ESA) plan to return only engines.
    Angara supposedly is aiming for 20% cheaper than Proton, and I just don't expect more than 1 competitor to beat it on price,
    with dynamics of commercial market needing 3 vendors, that means Russia will be on board, regardless.

    This US DOD project seems more about their military needs, they want to be able to re-launch these ASAP,
    probably aiming to be able to re-populate their sat fleet after some is taken out by attack or natural event,
    and "cheap" here is cheap in contrast to alternative, keeping equivalent fleet in storage/maintenance ready to launch,
    vs. re-usable craft that can re-launch in order to achieve same launch rate in 2 weeks, for example.
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    BlackArrow

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    Re: Russian military undecided whether to match US Χ-37 spaceplane

    Post  BlackArrow on Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:15 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Project Canada wrote:US to develop reusable spacecraft to launch military satellites quickly & cheaply


    In four years?   Please put the crack pipe down, RT, Boeing et al.  

    The current level of funding ($6.5 million) indicates pure paper research and not development work.



    They don't need 4 years, such a spacecraft already exists Have you never heard of X-37B?

    I don't see why they can't easily adapt such a spacecraft for satellite launches.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-37#X-37B_2



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    kvs

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    Re: Russian military undecided whether to match US Χ-37 spaceplane

    Post  kvs on Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:50 pm

    BlackArrow wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    Project Canada wrote:US to develop reusable spacecraft to launch military satellites quickly & cheaply


    In four years?   Please put the crack pipe down, RT, Boeing et al.  

    The current level of funding ($6.5 million) indicates pure paper research and not development work.



    They don't need 4 years, such a spacecraft already exists Have you never heard of X-37B?

    I don't see why they can't easily adapt such a spacecraft for satellite launches.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-37#X-37B_2




    Where do you think the salaries of the researchers come from? Over a 5 year period project the salary costs alone are
    several million dollars. And both government agencies and private companies pay their workers from transient project
    money so you can't claim that they get their salaries from somewhere else.

    Converting this toy into a full scale craft will take hundreds of millions of dollars if not billions. It takes 300 million
    dollars to do a single research satellite launch and that does not include the cost of developing and building the satellite.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Russia is developing a response to the US space plane bomber

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:39 pm

    BlackArrow wrote:
    They don't need 4 years, such a spacecraft already exists Have you never heard of X-37B?

    I don't see why they can't easily adapt such a spacecraft for satellite launches.

    The X-37B can't be adapted to launch satellites because it IS a satellite (albeit a maneuvering and re-usable one).  It has no appreciable engines of its own (only the equivalent of an orbital insertion stage), and it requires an (expendable) Atlas EELV to get into orbit.  Any reuseable vehicle used to deliver satellites into orbit also needs to deliver ITSELF to orbit, and therefore requires far greater launch mass for a given payload than an expendable system.  Any satellite small enough to fit within the payload range of a X-37-style rocket rider could be launched quicker, cheaper and more reliably on a light launcher, eg a Rokot-type silo-based launcher with storable propellents, kept on standby like an ICBM, onto which a containerised payload could be deployed.

    Any reusable satellite launcher for significantly bigger payloads would require a vehicle more like the Shuttle or Buran, and that certainly will NOT be cheap.
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    George1

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    Re: Russian military undecided whether to match US Χ-37 spaceplane

    Post  George1 on Sun Oct 04, 2015 1:33 pm

    VKS: US spaceplane X-37B - a simple object for monitoring Russia

    According to the Chief of Staff of the Army 15 videoconferencing, look for X-37B - this is a very simple task. Kosmoplan so big that his every move much, he said.

    MOSCOW, October 3 - RIA Novosti. The Russian space monitoring system to easily see the slightest movement of the American perspective spaceplane, said on Saturday, the army chief of staff 15 FSI (special purpose), Major-General Anatoly Nestechuk.

    Earlier it was reported that an unmanned orbital spaceplane developed the X-37 Boeing's interests the US Defense Department. Since 2010, the United States carried out a three-run devices Series X-37B. The main mission of the mini-shuttle is considered to be the ability to deliver small loads into space, as well as intelligence activities. At the disposal of the US Air Force is now two devices X-37B. The last mission, launched in December 2012, lasted a record 675 days.

    Space Forces Day annually celebrated in Russia on October 4.

    "It is for us the easiest task - to look for the X-37B. It is so big that it is to turn left or right, we have already noted his every move", - said Nestechuk in the "General Staff" radio RSN.

    Previously also reported that Russia is developing the project, which will be the answer to the American system of the X-37.


    Talking about the space control system, it is also noted that the Space Forces are actively monitored to ensure that the International Space Station (ISS) collided with space debris, and sometimes even have to re-examine these colleagues from the United States.

    "Just recently, the US side has given information about the dangerous proximity of the International Space Station with one of the space debris - the probability of convergence was very large. The specialists of space control system of our compounds have been translated and performed work on the analysis of the situation, and we have issued almost zero probability this dangerous approach - check us a little bit, too, in their ability to perform tasks in this direction, "- said Nestechuk.

    "Until today, maybe we have enough funds, but brains - Mathematics - allows very high quality", - he added.

    Space surveillance systems (SKKP) was established to monitor the satellites and other space objects and is the main catalog of space objects. This is a basic element of Russia's unified information system for the global monitoring of the situation in outer space. SKKP In addition, this system consists of a single early-warning system (EWS), as well as power and missile (ABM) and the defense (PVO).

    https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=2&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20151003/1296222546.html&usg=ALkJrhj4nPpaI5n15Skt49hXyYKBTufH9g


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    kvs

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    US wants to weaponize near Earth space

    Post  kvs on Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:07 am

    https://consortiumnews.com/2015/12/04/who-wants-to-weaponize-outer-space/

    The US wants to have primacy in everything. But it is going to get an existential shock if it thinks it can dominate Russia
    in space. It is opening a Pandora's box from which it will never recover.

    This idiocy of the self-described "hyper-power" is epic. They kill off the ABM treaty thinking that they can neutralize
    Russia's nuclear forces. Now they want to go down the path of parking nukes in orbit (think of Teller's nuclear detonation
    driven gamma ray laser platforms). Do they expect to be safe and secure from Russian orbiting weapons platforms?
    Do these retards really believe that Russia has no ability to respond? They should consider the performance of the
    S-400 vs. their latest Patriot system. But being retards they have no capacity to engage in such evaluations.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian military undecided whether to match US Χ-37 spaceplane

    Post  Militarov on Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:26 pm

    "The United Nations General Assembly has approved a Russian-led resolution calling for nations to refrain from being the first to deploy weapons into outer space, in spite of U.S. resistance and European silence on the proposed measure, the Foreign Ministry said in a statement. The resolution was first drafted by Russia in 2014, but was rejected by the United States and other nations last year, and then again this year, when the draft resolution was considered by a GA committee focusing on issues of arms control.

    On Tuesday, 129 nations represented in the General Assembly voted to adopt the measure, which was co-sponsored by 40 nations — including China and Syria — and is known as the “no first placement” initiative. “It is noteworthy that the only government objecting to the substance of our initiative is the United States, which for many years has stood in almost complete isolation trying to block successive efforts of the international community to prevent an arms race in outer space,” the Foreign Ministry said. The initiative calls on nations to refrain from being the first to place military weapons in outer space, thereby preventing a new and potentially devastating arms race between the world's leading space-faring nations — Russia, China and the United States, who are all working on space weapons.


    Europe, which has an effective multi-national space program of its own, has consistently abstained from ruling on the Russian proposal. The United States maintains that Russia's resolution does not adequately define space weapons, and ignores an entire class of ground-launched space arms — such as anti-satellite missiles tested by China. The resolution is nonbinding, but calls for negotiations held at the Conference on Disarmament in Geneva to put forth a legally binding international treaty preventing weapons from being deployed in space, and calls on all states to adopt national commitments to the resolution."


    Source: http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/un-backs-russian-proposal-ban-weapons-space-us-stands-opposed/ri11745
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    Project Canada

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    Re: Russian military undecided whether to match US Χ-37 spaceplane

    Post  Project Canada on Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:50 pm

    If this will give Russia a stronger MAD capability by deploying nukes in space as well, then maybe go ahead with it. Imagine Russia parking dozens of megaton warheads above Pindostani heads Laughing
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    max steel

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    Re: Russian military undecided whether to match US Χ-37 spaceplane

    Post  max steel on Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:44 pm

    USSR loved lasers in the last decades of its life, so they did a lot of experiments with it. Laser tank projects were a common thing that day - famous Szhatiye or Sangvin -they generated a lot of data, etc.

    For example, initially in response to Shuttle USSR scientists wanted to launch not Buran, but Spiral. Politicians were too afraid of that project and closed it prior to Buran.

    Allow me to illustrate the idea:






    The most interesting thing that project's idea included a manoeuvrable space fights! It was a fighter too! USSR seriously thought about a space Star Wars like wars and kept testing technologies for this project.

    That was like golden age of USSR military science. When System already emerged, from the school till the Design Bureau. Soviets were not afraid of difficult task - for example Spiral project required a hypersonic carrier plane - "well, ok, let us design one, oh, i have an idea!", something like that.
    And there were a lot of project with very brave ideas. For example USSR wanted to crush Tomcat once and for all and designed a ballistic-takeoff heavy carrier based fighter.

    The philosophical idea behind it was "You can not win the race if you concentrate on pursuing. You have to use shortcuts and concentrated on surpassing". This is why USSR extensively researched sometimes too brave concepts - search for a shortcut.
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    George1

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    Re: Russian military undecided whether to match US Χ-37 spaceplane

    Post  George1 on Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:06 am

    The US Air Force’s unmanned X-37B space plane has now spent more than 500 days orbiting the Earth, without statement or explanation.

    The 29-foot unmanned plane is part of the Air Force's orbital program. Launched May 20, 2015, it is the program's fourth flight (hence its other name, OTV-4 for Orbital Test Vehicle-4). The first OTV took flight in 2010 and spent 224 days in orbit; two others brought the total number of OTV days in orbit before 2015 to 1,367, according to the Air Force.

    The full purpose or intent of the program? The US Air Force remains mum.

    Read more: https://sputniknews.com/military/201610111046238374-spaceplane-reaches-500-days/


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