Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Arjun News Thread

    Share
    avatar
    aksha

    Posts : 66
    Points : 73
    Join date : 2015-05-30

    Re: Arjun News Thread

    Post  aksha on Sat Jan 30, 2016 7:21 am

    Improving the Arjun's already great suspension

    http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com.au/2011/11/improving-arjuns-already-great.html

    One of the distinctive features of the Arjun tank is its hydro-pneumatic suspension, distinct from and far more advanced than the "torsion bar" arrangement that conventional MBTs ) feature. The Arjun's suspension provides a smoother ride, making the tank a more stable gunnery platform that permits more accurate engagement of targets whilst on the move.

    The Arjun Mark II features an enhanced version of the Arjun's well-proven hydro-pneumatic suspension, with the new one designed for a 70-tonne load. This is part of an improved "running gear", including the road wheel mountings, the road wheels, axle arms and shock absorbers.

    The new suspension has already been tested in the recent trials and run for 1,300 kilometers. In order to obtain an accurate comparison with the earlier suspension, the trial tank was fitted with both: the old suspension on the left side and the new one on the right. The photographs --- in which the new suspension still looks new while the old suspension looks somewhat the worst for wear (not surprising; 1,300 km is a lot of running!) --- point to a successful upgrade.

    The Arjun's suspension will be practically all-Indian. The road wheels, which continue to be built by Sundaram Industries, have been improved with better manufacturing and bonding processes for the rubber. Tractor Engineeers Ltd (TENGL), an L&T company, is doing parallel development of the Arjun track (imported so far), including development of one of the most difficult running gear technologies: the track pins.

    I am amused at the many who appear to believe that the Arjun is "built entirely of foreign components" that are "hammered together in India". This kind of view is rooted in a deep lack of understanding of the processes of indigenisation. It is true that almost 60% of the cost of the Arjun goes on imported components. Practically all of that goes on just three components --- the power pack; the gunner's main sight (GMS); and the gun control equipment (GCE). Almost all the Arjun's other 10,000-odd component are sourced from Indian industry, which is rising to the challenge. More support from the government, in terms of better procurement procedures, would accelerate this.
    avatar
    aksha

    Posts : 66
    Points : 73
    Join date : 2015-05-30

    Re: Arjun News Thread

    Post  aksha on Sat Jan 30, 2016 7:26 am












    avatar
    aksha

    Posts : 66
    Points : 73
    Join date : 2015-05-30

    Re: Arjun News Thread

    Post  aksha on Sat Jan 30, 2016 8:38 am

    visuals from the arjun mk2's recent trials in 2015







    avatar
    aksha

    Posts : 66
    Points : 73
    Join date : 2015-05-30

    Re: Arjun News Thread

    Post  aksha on Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:30 am







    avatar
    aksha

    Posts : 66
    Points : 73
    Join date : 2015-05-30

    Re: Arjun News Thread

    Post  aksha on Sat Jan 30, 2016 10:15 am

    writeup on the origins of Kanchan armor from the horses mouth, its creator

    My Tryst with Indigenous Armour Development

    http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-981-10-0119-2_54
    Born little after India’s independence, as a child,
    I used to imagine and feel that I owned the
    whole great country. My father was a respected school headmaster who used to get respectful
    salutations from members of nearly every house situated all along a seven kilometer long
    path of walk to his school through hills and fields. He would reciprocate with appropriate
    affectionate words without stopping his walk. It was a thrill to walk with him. My mother
    would often be cheerfully singing tunes and hymns while taking care of the small farm, all
    the workers, children, cows and guests with infinite patience and love. It was a great joy to do
    every type of work to help her and receive her blessings. Early in the morning, every day,
    father would gently wake me up by teaching me shlokas, maths, words, spellings and
    grammar while sitting by my bedside even as I lay on the bed with closed eyes, and end the
    day similarly at night. This process I believe gaveme many things, including a habit of not
    wasting a single moment from the time one wakes upto the moment one falls asleep.

    At the age of 14, I joined Sri Ramakrishna Mission Balakashram at Mangalore where the
    rigorous discipline of perfectly doing all the chores along with studies toughened the mind-
    body system. Here I had the chance to tutor (free)classmates and younger students, which
    increased my grasp on the subject and also strengthened my self-confidence.

    In 1967, I joined the B.Tech programme at IIT Madras. Here, I concentrated totally on
    understanding the principles and deeper aspects rather than on securing grades. This quest
    made me read a large number of books and to some extent journals available in the Institute
    library where I would often sit up until it closed late in the night. After B.tech, I secured
    admission with scholarship to do PhD at Washington State University, but, when I learnt that
    USA had sent its 7th fleet in readiness to attack India during the Bangladesh conflict, I
    changed my mind. Instead, I went to IISc Bangalore to study M.E from where DMRL
    recruited me.

    At DMRL, for the first six months or so, I visited
    all the groups and glanced through all the
    books and journals and generated hundreds of resear
    ch ideas. Initially I worked on TEM and
    intermetallic alloy systems. One day, Dr. V.S. Arun
    achalam, who had joined as our new
    director called me aside and in his characteristic
    excited way asked me whether I prefer to
    work on pure science and maybe hope to get a Noble
    prize one day, or work on an important
    development work. Because of the training at IIT, p
    roud to be an engineer, I immediately
    chose the latter path.

    Next day Dr. Arunachalam called me to his office and excitedly explained the scattered notings in his little diary
    about the Chobham armour trials shown in a hazy way in England to the visiting Chief of Army Staff and asked me if we can quickly develop and demonstrate a similar one. Though I knew nothing, I sensed that every atom in my body was excited.
    First I made a quick dash to TBRL, ARDE and weapons related laboratories studying all available reports and papers to understand the nature of the threats and their operating principles and mechanisms. To find some solution, I went into a contemplative enquiry mode and scanned the rather difficult journals such as “Journal of Applied Physics” at the libraries in IISc and TIFR to look for sound principles based on which one can construct appropriate armour materials on our own ab initio. Various ideas such as Konda’s effect, deflection of shockwaves, splitting of the jets, avoiding momentum multiplication, using extremely high viscosities of glass like substances, facilitating lateral dispersal of momentum and energy, breaking up the projectiles or deflecting the proje ctiles etc. were conceived. Appropriate tailor made materials and structures were thought of. It was realized that while in most engineering materials and applications we need to maximize strength, sometimes strength and toughness, in armour we need to maximize the product of strength, ductility and the volume that participates in energy absorption. Increased speed of plastic wave and increased homogeneity of strain that accompanies it is critical. These are unique requirements. Further,it was observed that while homogeneous deformation is key for maximizing energy
    absorption, inhomogeneous flow is desirable for momentum absorption such as in the case of HEAT and for turning or breaking the shots. For dissipating or absorbing shocks, layered structures should be preferred. Accordingly, many new materials and structures were conceived and made.

    The first results of the trials on the HEAT rounds came within a few months and, may be for
    the beginner’s luck, were truly fantastic. Soon, larger samples were made and tested at PXE
    Balasore. The plates not only defeated the HEAT rounds but also withstood the KE, APDS
    rounds. The round was trapped inside. To see what happened to it, the plate was brought to
    DMRL. It was cut open the same night to see what actually happened to the shot. I and Dr. Arunachalam walked from Lab Quarters to DMRL at well past midnight to examine the plate from inside. To our shock, the shot was not inside, hiding, but had actually broken up to fine dust!


    It was an exciting beginning. A comprehensive and confident programme thus began at
    DMRL. Using a variety of starting materials such as ceramics, hard steels, tough composites, and
    energetic explosives, the armour programme advanced in many directions to meet a host of
    challenging requirements. Success after success came in the form of armour system for MBTArjun and its continuously improving features. For T-72 Ajeya and for T-90 the required armour technology was developed indigenously. Armour for light vehicles, helicopters and many other applications like lancer helicopter, Vijayanta tank, ICV-Abhay and Mi-17
    helicopters also emerged out of the programme to meet the requirements. It gives great satisfaction and excitement to me and my research team.


    More than 20,000 tonnes of various armour materials have been produced to meet the various requirements. An Armour Technology Centre has been set up in the 700 acres of land specially acquired for the purpose.

    There are a few critical factors which I believe have contributed to the above successes in the tryst with indigenous armour development:
    1.Full trust, support and freedom provided by the organization.
    2.From the user’s side, the area of protection is one thing that is close to the heart of every member from soldier to the chief, and evokes spontaneous, deeply supportive and encouraging responses.

    My heartfelt acknowledgement is to my family and wo rk related family whose unfathomabledepth of emotions, support and commitment has enabled the attainment of deeply satisfying results in my tryst with destiny in the service of the nation, which reconfirms my childhood feeling that I indeed own the whole country is correct. I also acknowledge that while something has been do ne, there is a lot more to be done and forever so.

    Jai Hind]
    avatar
    aksha

    Posts : 66
    Points : 73
    Join date : 2015-05-30

    Re: Arjun News Thread

    Post  aksha on Sat Jan 30, 2016 11:05 am



    recent exercise, T90, Arjun mk2, T72 present

    i will not translate the news commentry, because the media mixed up which is T90 and Arjun
    Not only they say Arjun as T-90 but then show T-72 as Arjun. Then they even say Arjun was made in Russia before but is now made in India


    but the visuals are good
    avatar
    Werewolf

    Posts : 5357
    Points : 5588
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: Arjun News Thread

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Jan 30, 2016 7:33 pm

    There was for obvious reasons a big fall of interest in this very thread due to the essence and core of indian tabloitism along with the PR department that has published to many bad examples of how not to propagate stuff that were coined untrue or even opposite. The entire core of "T-90 relaxed parameters" already shows the core of propaganda here like the till this very date INDO stronkkk crew that keeps on repeating disadvantages which were ironed out almost a decade ago.

    The only interesting would be the thermobaric round and what effect it has on tanks and how high probability of Mission kill or (tank/crew damage) it can achieve.
    avatar
    aksha

    Posts : 66
    Points : 73
    Join date : 2015-05-30

    Re: Arjun News Thread

    Post  aksha on Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:59 am

    Werewolf wrote: The entire core of "T-90 relaxed parameters" already shows the core of propaganda here like the till this very date INDO stronkkk crew that keeps on repeating disadvantages which were ironed out almost a decade ago.


    the relaxed parameters were taken from the CAG report to the Parliament , 2015
    and the CAG will not lie to the parliament.

    its not as if some news paper or magzine published it


    the same CAG criticized the LCA heavily, i don't see any favouritism.
    and all the reprts i have cited
    cite named sources within the army instead of reports citing unnamed sources
    avatar
    Werewolf

    Posts : 5357
    Points : 5588
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: Arjun News Thread

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:57 pm

    aksha wrote:
    Werewolf wrote: The entire core of "T-90 relaxed parameters" already shows the core of propaganda here like the till this very date INDO stronkkk crew that keeps on repeating disadvantages which were ironed out almost a decade ago.


    the relaxed parameters were taken from the CAG report to the Parliament , 2015
    and the CAG will not lie to the parliament.

    its not as if some news paper or magzine published it


    the same CAG criticized the LCA heavily, i don't see any favouritism.
    and all the reprts i have cited
    cite named sources within the army instead of reports citing unnamed sources

    Sure they won't lie, like they will not pre-taylor trails like IA never did before. Rolling Eyes
    avatar
    sepheronx

    Posts : 7252
    Points : 7546
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 28
    Location : Canada

    Re: Arjun News Thread

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Jan 31, 2016 3:16 pm

    aksha wrote:
    Werewolf wrote: The entire core of "T-90 relaxed parameters" already shows the core of propaganda here like the till this very date INDO stronkkk crew that keeps on repeating disadvantages which were ironed out almost a decade ago.


    the relaxed parameters were taken from the CAG report to the Parliament , 2015
    and the CAG will not lie to the parliament.

    its not as if some news paper or magzine published it


    the same CAG criticized the LCA heavily, i don't see any favouritism.
    and all the reprts i have cited
    cite named sources within the army instead of reports citing unnamed sources
    Yeah, they lie.  Actually, when it comes to India, they tend to lie a lot.  Hence why generals are always caught with corruption charges.  Then again, half of the government of India is heavily corrupt too.
    avatar
    Militarov

    Posts : 5538
    Points : 5579
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: Arjun News Thread

    Post  Militarov on Sun Jan 31, 2016 3:22 pm

    aksha wrote:
    Werewolf wrote: The entire core of "T-90 relaxed parameters" already shows the core of propaganda here like the till this very date INDO stronkkk crew that keeps on repeating disadvantages which were ironed out almost a decade ago.


    the relaxed parameters were taken from the CAG report to the Parliament , 2015
    and the CAG will not lie to the parliament.

    its not as if some news paper or magzine published it


    the same CAG criticized the LCA heavily, i don't see any favouritism.
    and all the reprts i have cited
    cite named sources within the army instead of reports citing unnamed sources

    Indians and their "within the army sources". I bet Bofors, Beretta, Tatra, Dassault and Rafale (Israeli company) know their names, probably phone numbers too Very Happy


    Last edited by Militarov on Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
    avatar
    Pinto

    Posts : 874
    Points : 931
    Join date : 2015-05-16
    Location : India

    Re: Arjun News Thread

    Post  Pinto on Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:20 pm

    well read the some very unfortunate remarks by sr members here but they are forgetting that it was same india, same generals and same ministry of defence with which Russians have bagged orders worth 60b$ so far and many more expected but if such is the thinking of russian govt too then only god can save the Indo-Russian relations from downfall
    avatar
    sepheronx

    Posts : 7252
    Points : 7546
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 28
    Location : Canada

    Re: Arjun News Thread

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:26 pm

    Pinto wrote:well read the some very unfortunate remarks by sr members here but they are forgetting that it was same india, same generals and same ministry of defence with which Russians have bagged orders worth 60b$ so far and many more expected but if such is the thinking of russian govt too then only god can save the Indo-Russian relations from downfall
    Russia didnt beg anybody.  More like India acting like a spoiled child and demanding more than it deserves for co production, then decides to cancel amd just outright purchase an item from someone else with 0% tech transder rather than getting at least. 30% or more tech transfer.  As well, same gov that can be given money for a decision or same gov with people in Punjab authorities who openly deal in illegal activity like drug trade, whom have people in high rank military units that sell drugs as well, and then have their cars stolen (somehow survive while everyone else killed) and then attackers can attack an airforce base afterwards using his car to get in.

    Oh, yes, no corruption here.

    BTW, Russia suffered same stuff in 90's, they managed to deal with a lot of it.  If India continues its fight against corruption, it too will be dealt with.
    avatar
    Pinto

    Posts : 874
    Points : 931
    Join date : 2015-05-16
    Location : India

    Re: Arjun News Thread

    Post  Pinto on Sun Jan 31, 2016 5:38 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    Pinto wrote:well read the some very unfortunate remarks by sr members here but they are forgetting that it was same india, same generals and same ministry of defence with which Russians have bagged orders worth 60b$ so far and many more expected but if such is the thinking of russian govt too then only god can save the Indo-Russian relations from downfall
    Russia didnt beg anybody.  More like India acting like a spoiled child and demanding more than it deserves for co production, then decides to cancel amd just outright purchase an item from someone else with 0% tech transder rather than getting at least. 30% or more tech transfer.  As well, same gov that can be given money for a decision or same gov with people in Punjab authorities who openly deal in illegal activity like drug trade, whom have people in high rank military units that sell drugs as well, and then have their cars stolen (somehow survive while everyone else killed) and then attackers can attack an airforce base afterwards using his car to get in.

    Oh, yes, no corruption here.

    BTW, Russia suffered same stuff in 90's, they managed to deal with a lot of it.  If India continues its fight against corruption, it too will be dealt with.

    i never said Russia begged i used the work bagged means clinched the deal or acquired Smile
    avatar
    sepheronx

    Posts : 7252
    Points : 7546
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 28
    Location : Canada

    Re: Arjun News Thread

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Jan 31, 2016 5:42 pm

    Pinto wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    Pinto wrote:well read the some very unfortunate remarks by sr members here but they are forgetting that it was same india, same generals and same ministry of defence with which Russians have bagged orders worth 60b$ so far and many more expected but if such is the thinking of russian govt too then only god can save the Indo-Russian relations from downfall
    Russia didnt beg anybody.  More like India acting like a spoiled child and demanding more than it deserves for co production, then decides to cancel amd just outright purchase an item from someone else with 0% tech transder rather than getting at least. 30% or more tech transfer.  As well, same gov that can be given money for a decision or same gov with people in Punjab authorities who openly deal in illegal activity like drug trade, whom have people in high rank military units that sell drugs as well, and then have their cars stolen (somehow survive while everyone else killed) and then attackers can attack an airforce base afterwards using his car to get in.

    Oh, yes, no corruption here.

    BTW, Russia suffered same stuff in 90's, they managed to deal with a lot of it.  If India continues its fight against corruption, it too will be dealt with.

    i never said Russia begged i used the work bagged means clinched the deal or acquired Smile
    My point stands.  I have faith India will eventually clean house from all these colonial era families who control the country.  First step was mody and getting the Ghandi family out.

    On an unrelated note, ill be landing in Delhi on Feb 19 or 20.  I leave the 18th but due to time differences, it will be more than likely I land the 20th.  I for one look forward to see Jaipur and Haridwar.
    avatar
    Pinto

    Posts : 874
    Points : 931
    Join date : 2015-05-16
    Location : India

    Re: Arjun News Thread

    Post  Pinto on Sun Jan 31, 2016 5:49 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    Pinto wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    Pinto wrote:well read the some very unfortunate remarks by sr members here but they are forgetting that it was same india, same generals and same ministry of defence with which Russians have bagged orders worth 60b$ so far and many more expected but if such is the thinking of russian govt too then only god can save the Indo-Russian relations from downfall
    Russia didnt beg anybody.  More like India acting like a spoiled child and demanding more than it deserves for co production, then decides to cancel amd just outright purchase an item from someone else with 0% tech transder rather than getting at least. 30% or more tech transfer.  As well, same gov that can be given money for a decision or same gov with people in Punjab authorities who openly deal in illegal activity like drug trade, whom have people in high rank military units that sell drugs as well, and then have their cars stolen (somehow survive while everyone else killed) and then attackers can attack an airforce base afterwards using his car to get in.

    Oh, yes, no corruption here.

    BTW, Russia suffered same stuff in 90's, they managed to deal with a lot of it.  If India continues its fight against corruption, it too will be dealt with.

    i never said Russia begged i used the work bagged means clinched the deal or acquired Smile
    My point stands.  I have faith India will eventually clean house from all these colonial era families who control the country.  First step was mody and getting the Ghandi family out.


    Lets see bro the wind of changes for good are flowing in India, it would more powerful if the present govt failed to deliver

    Corruption is a major irritant now and public is very sensitive to it now so political parties better watch out. But Russia not getting couple of deals like MRCA decided in 2012 or helicopters like apache or chinook is not the end of world for the relations between our countries. In 80's too India bough MIG 29 and Mirages 2000 in 2 years

    Relations with US are primarily to check mate china belligerence in Indian ocean, china-pak nexus and SCS. Closer Russia-China relations since past decade or so have not been able to undermine trusted Indo-Russian relation likewise closer Indo-US relations will never hamper our relations
    avatar
    aksha

    Posts : 66
    Points : 73
    Join date : 2015-05-30

    Re: Arjun News Thread

    Post  aksha on Mon Feb 01, 2016 5:53 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    aksha wrote:
    Werewolf wrote: The entire core of "T-90 relaxed parameters" already shows the core of propaganda here like the till this very date INDO stronkkk crew that keeps on repeating disadvantages which were ironed out almost a decade ago.


    the relaxed parameters were taken from the CAG report to the Parliament , 2015
    and the CAG will not lie to the parliament.

    its not as if some news paper or magzine published it


    the same CAG criticized the LCA heavily, i don't see any favouritism.
    and all the reprts i have cited
    cite named sources within the army instead of reports citing unnamed sources
    Yeah, they lie.  Actually, when it comes to India, they tend to lie a lot.  Hence why generals are always caught with corruption charges.  Then again, half of the government of India is heavily corrupt too.


    corruption is an issue in the armed forces , i agree

    but has there been any case against the past for curruption
    give me at least one instance and i will beleive the CAG lied


    one of the jobs of the CAG is also to act as anticorruption body



    now,
    you say that the CAG is corrupt and hence it lied

    who will pay the pay the CAG to do a hitjob against the T90 vis-a-vis the arjun??
    the only answer that comes to my mind is DRDO.

    but that answer is comical.
    they barely have enough funds to hire enough scientists and engineers to run the labs.

    besides if the DRDO had that kind of money to pay bribes the LCA would have already been in service a good five years back, the arjun would have been inducted in thousands ,not to mention a variety of other projects.

    that theory doesn't make any sense


    besides the DRDO has been the greatest victim of corruption

    on the Arjun project itself.
    why did the army want a 120mm rifled gun with manual on the arjun when they could have asked for 125 mm smooth bore like on the T90
    sharing the same gun would have solved a lot of problems instantaneously,
    including the ability to use already available Russian rounds and
    cannon launched missiles.
    the army could have rectified this on the Arjun mk2 , but no they still wanted a 120 mm rifled bore gun.



    another example is the siphoning of funds meant for the Kaveri engine ,
    the prvious government, alotted the funds on paper while the actual funds were used for free lunch schemes to ensure that the party won the next elections.
    the same was done to the navy's fuel subsidy


    again why was the kaveri cancelled??
    it should have been taken to its logical conclusion
    whatever the time or the funds required.


    as far as Arjun mk2 is concerned ,
    in my view at least 500 should be inducted.
    India cannot fight on imported muscle forever.

    unfortunately only the Indian navy seems to understand .
    they have supported indegenous programmes through thick and thin.
    they have been rewarded in many cases.





    avatar
    Werewolf

    Posts : 5357
    Points : 5588
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: Arjun News Thread

    Post  Werewolf on Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:02 pm

    Arjun is a finished project, finished like failed. Going for rifled guns only decreases firepower and increases costs for absolutley nothing worth. Already smoothbore fired rounds are barely to not possible to penetrate enemy MBT's at first and effective engagement ranges, a rifled gun will only worsen this and APFSDS,HEAT and GLATGM's will decrease its penetration power significantly at the same time wear down gun barrel.


    Mindstorm

    Posts : 771
    Points : 948
    Join date : 2011-07-20

    Re: Arjun News Thread

    Post  Mindstorm on Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:58 pm


    aksha wrote:give me at least one instance and i will beleive the CAG lied

    Why on earth someone here should insinuate that CAG lied ? Razz ........How if what CAG revealed, even if in some way and rightly "defensive" of the made-in-India technological efforts, don't would had involuntarily collapsed to theirs inner foundations the ridiculous mountain of pathetic LIES that some mercenary indian media operator, selling himself to forign interests misrepresenting facts and events to influenciate Indian public opinion, had uttered in the representation of the comparative trials; lies that still today some people is still incapable to abandon after having repeated them for years Laughing


    When a particular indian media operator .....with definitely too much western "friends" and love for the collection of foreign money samples, for so say Laughing .........had sustained, with the usual reference to the by now mythical "unnamed indian offiicials" present at the event Rolling Eyes that :



    "India’s home-built Arjun tank has emerged a conclusive winner from its showdown with the Russian T-90."

    and

    "....from multiple sources who were involved in the trials that the Arjun tank has outperformed the T-90 on every crucial parameter."


    several people in the knowing here and elsewhere questioned strongly this ,at best ,phantasious representation of the event in question , do you know the sort of things that happen when the data ,coming from the same trials, at the maker of one of the MBT involved paint a situation at the exact opposite.

    Those are just some of mine past interventions on the subject :



    http://www.russiadefence.net/t2333p255-t-90-mbt-news

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t2333p555-t-90-mbt-news

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t2333p570-t-90-mbt-news


    What should surprise indian military enthusiasts is that Arjun MKI managed to lose ....i repeat LOSE....the comparative trials, in practically ALL the area taken into examination (even the Fire Power one !!) in spite its vectronic suit,and partially mechanical one, enjoyed more than 14 years development advantage, that its mass was maintained as low as possible (with the MKII it is now at over 67 tons with the same propulsion engine, transmissions and track wideness Rolling Eyes ) and in spite the requirements of those trials was conceived, through a playing field horribly twisted at Arjun favour and not the opposite , to not highlight the horrendous efficiency disbalance between the two MBTs at Arjun disfavour how i have clearly pointed out; disbalance that Arjun could never compensate in any way cause its unlucky western design philopsophy genetic heritage.

    I seriously doubt that Arjun MKII could come at tank biathlon 2016 and even get a chance to play in the same league with a modernized T-72B3 (leaving out T-90MS/AM) in spite costing several times more ; anyone can upgrade without any problem the vectronic suit and some mechanical and armor elements to today performances but none can do the same with am outweighted ,badly designed and conceived inherent structure.





    avatar
    aksha

    Posts : 66
    Points : 73
    Join date : 2015-05-30

    Re: Arjun News Thread

    Post  aksha on Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:35 am

    as an indian i will beleive WHAT THE CAG SAYS

    favouratism to indegenous products did not stop the same CAG from strongly criticizing the LCA

    you can beleive as you want


    i will still take the arjun mk2 .

    india cannot fight on foreign muscle forever.



    avatar
    Werewolf

    Posts : 5357
    Points : 5588
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: Arjun News Thread

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:02 pm

    aksha wrote:as an indian i will beleive WHAT THE CAG SAYS

    favouratism to indegenous products did not stop the same CAG from strongly criticizing the LCA

    you can beleive as you want


    i will still take the arjun mk2 .

    india cannot fight on foreign muscle forever.




    Carrying a dead pet around and pretending it is alive will not help the defense of your country either. Arjun is a dead project even Indian authorities know that. FMBT programm is hard indication after 30 years of failure of Arjun with a design philosophy that can only be marked as a failed tank design. attempted a Leopard 2 with almost all open front of weak points, trying to safe it by using a small volumetric armor arrangement around the already weakpoints similiar to russian design but the entire tank is a failure in design, no changes in design can be made at this point.

    Mindstorm

    Posts : 771
    Points : 948
    Join date : 2011-07-20

    Re: Arjun News Thread

    Post  Mindstorm on Wed Feb 03, 2016 8:03 am

    aksha wrote:as an indian i will beleive WHAT THE CAG SAYS



    Yes, then you believe that Arjun MKI have LOST the comparative trials : 75.01 for T-90S against 72.46 for Arjun MKI , to the exact contrary of what sustained for years by mercenary indian media operators.



    Even in the area (fire power) where its much more up-to-date vectronic suit should have given to it a wide advantage over its opponent, even discounting the advantage of T-90S in missile firing capability (that is already operational since day one, tested and included in its cost.....a very low cost), the difference would have amounted instead to a bit more than a single point , 25.77 to 24.50, in Arjun favour , if you put the exact same tank crew, before, in a T-90S and ,after, in a modernized one, T-90MS with "Kalina" (...... for not name something much, much more advanced in work for new unified heavy brigade family  Very Happy ), in the same trials the final results would have been crushingly lopsided in T-90MS favour .


    What Indian tax-payers should ask to CAG is to publish the results (that someone know....  Very Happy ) in the other area of the trial ,so that public opinion could become aware if in those comparative trials Arjun would have gained the upper hand even in only ONE of them  Rolling Eyes


    Even more Indian taxpayers should pretend from CAG to point out why Indian MoD do not order a SERIOUS comparative trials, taking into account all truly cardinal characteristics of the two weapon platforms in a possible large scale war scenario ,instead of one like that in 2010 clearly conceived to allow the Arjun, and its enormous baggage of inherent western design-related disadvantages, to lose of only few points.

    This is what is call an even playing field :


    http://www.russiadefence.net/t2333p570-t-90-mbt-news


    1) Force the platoon of Arjun to come to the testing range using the same, identical  number (and occupy the same, identical space aboard) of Indian strategic mobilization assets - aircraft, train, ship, tractor trailers etc… -required to the 14 T-90S , so to render evident the simply crushing strategic mobilization speed overmatch and the crucial sector force density in the event of a war, between T-90S and Arjun.

    2) Provide the 14 Arjun’s platoon with the same ,identical Indian Army human resources  -42 tankers and not 33% more as required by the Arjun ,cause its  western genetic pool heritage-  required to the T-90S platoon , with also the same identical furniture for them (food, coverage, energy generators, clothes etc….) and with the related carrying vehicles. The results will be very interesting……

    3) Measure the exact distance covered by the 14 Arjun platoon with the same identical amount of fuel provided to the T-90S, at the same conditions.  Moreover Indian Army should also provide the two groups with the same ,identical number of fuel resupply  vehicles for the entire duration of the trials so to simulate repeated fuel resupply in time of war and measure the total distance covered by the two groups. I manage already now to figure the faces….


    4) Provide the two groups with equal number of repair vehicles with fixed number ,volume and weight of spare parts (at example replacement for damaged armor blocks , ERA tiles, transmission, engines, axis, tracks ,rollers, tires etc… within a prefixed volume and weight limit) so to simulate logistical needs in response to battle and environmental damages  for conflicts of different duration. The result would be very, very interesting.

    5) Measure the weight , fuel/oil requirement and strategic lift requirements for all the auxiliary engineering vehicles  ( recovering vehicles, bridging vehicles, amphibious fording etc) supporting the operation of the two MBT’s groups of different weight .  

    6) Let both group to transverse different roads , canals bridges ,and enemy over-ditch passages  representative of both national and potential enemy ones and take account of how many of them sustain their weight ( with good peace of the comically abused nominal ground pressure argument).

    7) Last  but not least : produce three-dimensional targets with the exact 3D size of the two tanks and conduct the fire at the shooting range allowing those targets to move ,exactly as in the reality, changing continuously and in a totally arbitrary way their speed and direction long different land morphology . That would allow also to simulate the different  capability to change more and more faster those variables by part of the two tanks in reason of the different torque potential available ,the different inertial mass and the maximum solicitation limit for the suspensions) and video-record the entire fire session. At the end of it measure with precision the number and placement of any hit and, from the video recording, the distance and direction of any miss. The cold results of a similar realistic test would cause majority of easily gullible “tin-can yelling” zombies  to fall in complete depression, even more because would become immediately evident  the dramatic effects that similar huge difference in target area would have in the exchange ratio between peer opponent employing MBT constructed around the two different philosophy.



    Try to read post 268

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t2333p255-t-90-mbt-news



    Arjun is an important project for India, not for its inherent military value, but for the technological experience in developing a domestic MBT; under this point of view the selection of a western-like design, obviously much less efficient, but much more simple and less problematic ,having less volumetric constrictions , was a good choice.


    That, of course, do not cancel the hard reality that any serious general or military scientist know......is sufficient to see the technical requirement and limits that Indian MoD has put for the FMBT  Wink


    Last edited by Mindstorm on Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
    avatar
    Pinto

    Posts : 874
    Points : 931
    Join date : 2015-05-16
    Location : India

    Re: Arjun News Thread

    Post  Pinto on Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:27 pm

    In short time India will order more modified T 90 and in future armata, my take Smile
    avatar
    max steel

    Posts : 2967
    Points : 2998
    Join date : 2015-02-12
    Location : South Pole

    Re: Arjun News Thread

    Post  max steel on Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:25 pm

    DefExpo 2016 live mobility demonstration Arjun Mk II I MBT tank Kestrel 8x8 APC Humvee Tata MPV


    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10512
    Points : 10989
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Arjun News Thread

    Post  George1 on Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:57 pm

    India Successfully Tests Next-Gen Arjun Battle Tank’s Strike Capabilities

    The Indian Army looks set to be going ahead with the indigenously developed Arjun MK 2 Main Battle Tank going by the successful trials being reported in by defense scientists.

    New Delhi (Sputnik) — Sources told Sputnik that defense scientists of the Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO) saw the successful test of an anti-tank weapon with a strike range of five kilometers at a testing facility in Orissa state. Scientists test-fired high explosive anti-tank weapon from Arjun MK 2 in salvo mode against a decommissioned tank. Sources said the test was successful and it had the desirable impact on the target.

    DRDO scientists have been developing the Arjun MK 2 Main Battle Tank since 2012. Arjun MK 2 is said to be a substantially improved and more capable version of the Arjun MK 1, 118 of which are now in delivery. But the Army has a problem with the weight of the tank: it weighs approximately 68 tons with scientists trying to lighten the load. Sources said scientists will use indigenously developed lighter high nitrogen steel in the baseline hull of the tank. They will also use all-aluminium road-wheels instead of all-steel road wheels and ventilators to reduce the weight.

    Defense sources told Sputnik that the Indian Army wanted Arjun MK 2 to weigh 50-55 tons but the DRDO has conveyed its inability to bring it down to that level. The Army is said to have objected to the tank's 68 ton weight, saying it was too heavy and limited the area where it can be deployed.

    In February this year, Bharat Electronics had unveiled a remote controlled weapon station (RCWS) for 12.7 mm gun of MBT Arjun Mk II battle tank at Aero India 2017 in Bengaluru. This enabled the soldier to aim and fire at aerial targets from the safe interiors of the battle tank. Presently, the 12.7 mm guns of all tanks are manually operated. The RCWS is armed with the 12.7 mm Russian NSVT heavy machine gun. Other weapons like 7.62 mm MG can also be fitted with it.

    https://sputniknews.com/military/201704071052396493-india-test-tank-arjun/


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov


    Sponsored content

    Re: Arjun News Thread

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:36 pm