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    Arjun Tank News Thread

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    Austin

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    Arjun Tank News Thread - Page 2 Empty T-90 vs Arjun

    Post  Austin on Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:28 pm

    yeah I agree a close to 70 T tank is a monster in it self low on accleration high on fuel thirst , affecting its tactical mobility and range , hope that number is wrong not quite sure why it should jump from 58.5 T to 67 odd ton , unless they are doing something radical which is not the case , the only weight addition is ERA which is K-6 and that will not add 5 odd tons but 2-3 at best , one report spoke of 62 T which looks more like it to me.

    Beyond that all good , i am eagerly waiting to see T-90AM and Arjun Mk2 in the months and years ahead.
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    Arjun Tank News Thread - Page 2 Empty Arjun Mark2 upgrade

    Post  Austin on Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:43 am

    Here is some reliable and definitive information regarding Arjun Mark2 upgrade , the capabilities listed are pretty much on par with T-90MS although the weight is substantially higher.

    Heavier, more lethal Arjun tank poised for trials

    Upcoming modifications on the Arjun Mark II

    Can some one tell me what is the advantage and disadvantage of having a heavier tank , for eg both Israel Merk 4 and Arjun are 65T tank , in terms of tactical ability of a tank to fight in open and urban environment and cross country mobility and logistics , is a lighter tank like T-90MS with 48.5 tank is a better or worse option then say a heavier tank like Merk , Abrams or Arjun ?

    Thanks
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    Arjun Tank News Thread - Page 2 Empty Not a Russian Tank but here is some reliable and definitive information regarding Arjun Mark2 upgrade

    Post  GarryB on Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:34 am

    Weight on its own is a bad feature.

    Weight has been claimed in the past by western "experts" to be an advantage because it suggests armour, so the heavier western tanks were better armoured so the penalty of the extra weight was compensated for by better protection.

    In the case of Soviet vs western tanks of the past that has been true because in their efforts to maximise "frontal armour" the Soviet designers have tended to shave off weight to the sides and rear angles where no tank on earth is as well protected as it is from the front.

    The tank is a combination of three factors... armour, firepower, and mobility and the ideal tank has all three... ie excellent protection from all threats, the firepower to see anything at long range and kill anything at long range and the ability to move over almost any ground quickly and efficiently.

    One of the reasons the T-34 was seen as such a good tank was because it combined excellent armour for the time, with good firepower and excellent mobility. It managed this feat via sloped and therefore more efficient armour, a big engine and a big gun.

    Other tank designs sacrifice one or other feature and are not so balanced... the Tiger had excellent protection and excellent firepower but fairly poor mobility.

    Most British tanks of WWII had poor firepower but generally good armour. The post war tanks have traditionally had pretty rubbish engines and transmissions, but generally good armour and good guns.

    Needless to say the Russians developed the T-34 as a medium tank that is similar in weight to a modern Bradley IFV. The current state of the art Russian MBT is similar in weight to the Panther or the KV-1... they clearly know what they are doing.

    Their main weakness has been thermal sights and the French have provided a solution that frogleaps them up to the current state of the art. Soviet and Russian tanks were all given night vision equipment but it was all passive image intensification stuff of limited range.

    I wonder if the Indian Army will bother with upgrading their T-90s to an AM like standard... it would probably be more useful to them, I think to have their T-72s and T-90s using common components and systems and ammo etc, so perhaps applying a unifying upgrade to both vehicles might be the best solution all round for them.
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    Arjun Tank News Thread - Page 2 Empty To digress from topic first pictures of Arjun Mk2 is released

    Post  Austin on Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:17 pm

    To digress from topic first pictures of Arjun Mk2 is released

    https://redcdn.net/ihimizer/img534/2564/imgarjun2crop2.jpg

    These are i suppose initial version lacking all the features of Arjun Mk2.
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    Arjun Tank News Thread - Page 2 Empty FMBT replaced with Arjun

    Post  suryakiran on Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:53 am

    Army proposes to scrap Future Main Battle Tank: instead build successive models of the Arjun

    The indigenous project to build a Future Main Battle Tank (FMBT) is being quietly buried by the army. Instead, the army’s tank directorate has proposed keeping faith with the home grown Arjun tank, while incrementally improving it into the future backbone of the army’s strike forces.

    Senior army sources tell Business Standard that the Directorate General of Mechanised Forces (DGMF), which oversees the army’s tank force, has formally proposed that the Arjun be gradually improved through successive models --- Mark II, Mark III, Mark IV and so on --- rather than attempting a major technological leap into the unknown, which is what the FMBT would be.

    Full article
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    Post  Austin on Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:20 pm

    Came across this on youtube

    Failed Tank Series

    The Arjun Part-1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5aDMvZbTWY
    The Arjun Part-2 https://youtu.be/CxG0heg-TU4
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    Arjun Tank News Thread - Page 2 Empty Discovery channel has made a documentary on Arjun

    Post  Austin on Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:58 pm

    Discovery channel has made a documentary on Arjun some good video and details

    https://youtu.be/namaXdSc8K0
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    Post  Austin on Sat May 18, 2013 5:37 pm

    An interesting write up , since the author has acquaintance with Arjun program , commanded the T-72 regiment and was also involved with T-90 procurement

    The Arjun Saga

    http://www.geopolitics.in/june2012.aspx
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    Post  Mindstorm on Mon May 20, 2013 1:16 pm

    Austin wrote:An interesting write up , since the author has acquaintance with Arjun program , commanded the T-72 regiment and was also involved with T-90 procurement

    The Arjun Saga

    http://www.geopolitics.in/june2012.aspx




    I would be very glad to see ,only one time, an official involved in weapon selection program for MBTs ,so deeply different in design concept, getting the courage to produce a comparison taking coldly into account EFFECT ON THE BATTLEFIELD and, above all, at THE SAME RESOURCES (material and human) employed ,of the selection of one of the other.



    Fact 1 : With the same crew's unit with which you can man 900 Arjun MK-I/II (or similar western-like "heavy" MBT ) you can man 1200 T-90S/MS


    Fact 2 : With the same financial resources necessary to procure Arjun MK-I/II you can procure from 1,4 to 1,9 times as much T-90S/MS


    Fact 3 : For unavoidable volumetric and weight factors, the same strategic ferry-asset capable to transport or sustain an Arjun MK-I/II (or similar western-like "heavy" MBT) can transport/sustain 1,5 to 2 times how much T-90S/MS


    Fact 4 : With the same fuel necessary to move 3 Arjun MK-I/II for 100 km you can move of the same distance about 4,2/4,6 T-90M/MS


    Fact 5 : Target area offered to enemy direct fire by part of Arjun MKI/II (or similar western-like "heavy" MBT) is much greater than that offered by T-90S/MS


    Fact 6 : Cost and time to repair hull/turret damages to a T90S/MS is immeasurably lower than that to conduct the same repair on Arjun MKI/II (or similar western-like "heavy" MBT)



    Now, if someone would attempt to establish the best investment for tax money in MBTs it should take into account the same resources employed and the operative capabilities obtained with it.


    Do you want to establish what public Indian money expenditure, between Arjun and T-90S, is more efficient in achieving the best target hit percentage in unitary time?

    Well, place 36 Arjun MKI/II and 48 T-90S/MS (same number of Indian tank crew and Indian tax-money taken into account) at a shooting range and measure the time necessary to hit 100 target for the former group and the latter.


    Do you want to establish what public Indian money expenditure, between Arjun and T-90S, offer the best strategic mobility and sector Armored Force's density in unitary time?
    Well, set a time and a strategic ferry asset (air-lift, ship-transport , rail transport or all of the three together) and measure how much Arjun MKI/II or T-90S/MS was present on the target sector at the same distance when the set time elapse.


    Do you want to establish the overall exchange ratio and PHit of a direct fire engagements between the two design, involving the same public Indian money expenditure and Indian lives taken into account ?
    Well, put 36 Arjun MKI/II and 48 T-90S/MS in the Rajasthan desert and let those two group shoot one against the other in mobile engagement with training rounds (or, even better, better colored powder ones) and measure the number and placement of hit for each MBT -....the result of this test ,also with same number of tanks, would be obviously equally one-sided in T-90’s favour-.

    And so on with: logistic burden and length, average time and cost for battle damages repair, tactical mobility, mobilization times etc.... or even better COMBINE all the up-mentioned trials : transport the three equivalent groups of Arjun and T-90S, with theirs necessary logistic vehicles, with three different strategic ferry asset in a sector ; after leave them proceed for 200-300 km long local road and off-road environment, leave each group engage the "opposing" one with the actual number of MBT present in the intended sector, collect "damaged" vehicles and repair them allowing to return in the battles in the subsequent days.
    The result would be simply CRUSHING.



    Now THIS, is a serious , analytical approach to military value assessment of two different systems with the same role, the problem is that a similar ,cold , strictly parametrical procedure for comparative trials would represent an enormous danger for some industrial interests.

    Reality is much more simple : India , as a quickly rising power, need to develop a domestic military heavy industry's base and ,within it, a critical MBT's design capability.
    Arjun is a good choice to develop a scientific and production basis for the creation of a modern MBT; but Indian analysts are perfectly aware of the factor's interaction previously mentioned.

    It is not a chance that FMBT has way more stringent volumetric limits and target weight of 50 tons Wink




    Last edited by Mindstorm on Mon May 20, 2013 4:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  collegeboy16 on Mon May 20, 2013 4:18 pm

    Another way to put it simply: T-90S is a STEAL Twisted Evil .
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    Arjun Tank News Thread - Page 2 Empty Αrjun vs T-90

    Post  Austin on Mon May 27, 2013 2:41 pm

    Mindstorm wrote:
    Austin wrote:An interesting write up , since the author has acquaintance with Arjun program , commanded the T-72 regiment and was also involved with T-90 procurement

    The Arjun Saga

    http://www.geopolitics.in/june2012.aspx

    I would be very glad to see ,only one time, an official involved in weapon selection program for MBTs ,so deeply different in design concept, getting the courage to produce a comparison taking coldly into account EFFECT ON THE BATTLEFIELD and, above all, at THE SAME RESOURCES (material and human) employed ,of the selection of one of the other.



    Fact 1 : With the same crew's unit with which you can man 900 Arjun MK-I/II (or similar western-like "heavy" MBT ) you can man 1200 T-90S/MS


    Fact 2 : With the same financial resources necessary to procure Arjun MK-I/II you can procure from 1,4 to 1,9 times as much T-90S/MS


    Fact 3 : For unavoidable volumetric and weight factors, the same strategic ferry-asset capable to transport or sustain an Arjun MK-I/II (or similar western-like "heavy" MBT) can transport/sustain 1,5 to 2 times how much T-90S/MS


    Fact 4 : With the same fuel necessary to move 3 Arjun MK-I/II for 100 km you can move of the same distance about 4,2/4,6 T-90M/MS


    Fact 5 : Target area offered to enemy direct fire by part of Arjun MKI/II (or similar western-like "heavy" MBT) is much greater than that offered by T-90S/MS


    Fact 6 : Cost and time to repair hull/turret damages to a T90S/MS is immeasurably lower than that to conduct the same repair on Arjun MKI/II (or similar western-like "heavy" MBT)



    Now, if someone would attempt to establish the best investment for tax money in MBTs it should take into account the same resources employed and the operative capabilities obtained with it.


    Do you want to establish what public Indian money expenditure, between Arjun and T-90S, is more efficient in achieving the best target hit percentage in unitary time?

    Well, place 36 Arjun MKI/II and 48 T-90S/MS (same number of Indian tank crew and Indian tax-money taken into account) at a shooting range and measure the time necessary to hit 100 target for the former group and the latter.


    Do you want to establish what public Indian money expenditure, between Arjun and T-90S, offer the best strategic mobility and sector Armored Force's density in unitary time?
    Well, set a time and a strategic ferry asset (air-lift, ship-transport , rail transport or all of the three together) and measure how much Arjun MKI/II or T-90S/MS was present on the target sector at the same distance when the set time elapse.


    Do you want to establish the overall exchange ratio and PHit of a direct fire engagements between the two design, involving the same public Indian money expenditure and Indian lives taken into account ?
    Well, put 36 Arjun MKI/II and 48 T-90S/MS in the Rajasthan desert and let those two group shoot one against the other in mobile engagement with training rounds (or, even better, better colored powder ones) and measure the number and placement of hit for each MBT -....the result of this test ,also with same number of tanks, would be obviously equally one-sided in T-90’s favour-.

    And so on with: logistic burden and length, average time and cost for battle damages repair, tactical mobility, mobilization times etc.... or even better COMBINE all the up-mentioned trials : transport the three equivalent groups of Arjun and T-90S, with theirs necessary logistic vehicles, with three different strategic ferry asset in a sector ; after leave them proceed for 200-300 km long local road and off-road environment, leave each group engage the "opposing" one with the actual number of MBT present in the intended sector, collect "damaged" vehicles and repair them allowing to return in the battles in the subsequent days.
    The result would be simply CRUSHING.



    Now THIS, is a serious , analytical approach to military value assessment of two different systems with the same role, the problem is that a similar ,cold , strictly parametrical procedure for comparative trials would represent an enormous danger for some industrial interests.

    Reality is much more simple : India , as a quickly rising power, need to develop a domestic military heavy industry's base and ,within it, a critical MBT's design capability.
    Arjun is a good choice to develop a scientific and production basis for the creation of a modern MBT; but Indian analysts are perfectly aware of the factor's interaction previously mentioned.

    It is not a chance that FMBT has way more stringent volumetric limits and target weight of 50 tons Wink



    Mindstorm , that kind of analysis that you have done is also what drives Indian Army in purchasing 1600 T-90 and making it the Main Battle Tank for the Army for the next 20 years to come with appropriate modernisation time to time.

    Also the fact that logistically and training weapons wise T-90 is closest to the 1800 plus T-72 that Army operates makes Army Decision to keep T series a more lopsided one in its favour.

    While Arjun came in late it has proved a point and it will go in a long way for DRDO to build a 50 T FMBT which will eventually replace the T-72 in the Army in the latter half of next decade.

    Considering the Office who wrote the piece is the one who has dealt with all three tanks with the IA i.e T-72 , T-90 and Arjun in different capacity , it also reflects the thinking of IA as to which tank best meets its need.

    I think when T-90MS enters IA it will be equal in capability to Arjun Mk2 and the upgrades being planned for it.
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    Post  Austin on Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:18 am

    India New Arjun Mk2 displayed at Republic Day Parade on Sunday....Note the ERA placement similar to T-90 and its K-5 ERA

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VF9-ixdKKvk/UuTsleXGqzI/AAAAAAAAVrI/Frocu4ugkzA/s1600/VIJY9268-783822.JPG
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    Post  TR1 on Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:25 am

    Placement sure is weird, big coverage on one side, nothing on the other.

    Not the Israeli sight, looks similar in general config to the Epocha site, I guess that is the future direction.
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    Post  Regular on Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:45 pm

    Holly mantle! No disrespect to indians, but You should rather ditch this tank and start something new from scratch as this tank looks like dead end.
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    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:02 pm

    The main problems with the arjun are:
    -Its too heavy for most indian terrain

    -It has poor gunbarrel reliability(mainly cracks)

    -Its sights are in front of the turret effectively making a large weakspot(at least the mk.1)

    As far as I know the arjun was tried to be exported in peru and other places but was thoroughly rejected everywhere. Were the reasons political or technological?
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    Post  collegeboy16 on Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:46 pm

    Regular wrote:Holly mantle! No disrespect to indians, but You should rather ditch this tank and start something new from scratch as this tank looks like dead end.
    Haha the mantle covers a third of the turret from the front. Yeah, I def. agree, just throw this POS in the gutter and order more T-90MS. Seriously, the f*ck is this thing for?  dunno

    Edit: Also, the ERA thingy is weird, it just covers the loaders side. Any enemy would simply shift his aim slightly to the left and boom.
    Also, the rifled gun really grinds my gears. Have fun with slip rings if you are going to shoot any decent anti-armor round.
    Really, this thing has been a giant waste of indian taxpayers money, the tank makers obviously didnt learn much from the whole affair, unless you count sticking whatever foreign component inside a Leo 2a4 ripoff as experience.
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    Post  Austin on Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:51 am

    Arjun Mk2 Official Specs ( via Defexpo 2014 )

    https://i.imgur.com/GbORxM2.jpg
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    Post  Zivo on Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:59 am

    Austin wrote:Arjun Mk2 Official Specs ( via Defexpo 2014 )

    https://i.imgur.com/GbORxM2.jpg

    Run of the mill.  Neutral 
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    Post  TR1 on Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:00 am

    68 tons!
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    Post  Zivo on Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:13 am

    TR1 wrote:68 tons!

    I wonder how it fares compared to the other heavyweights?
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    Post  Austin on Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:25 pm

    Arjun Mk2 Brochure Pictures ( via DFI )

    Arjun Mk2
    Laser Warning & Countermeasure
     Arjun Mk2 Specs 1
    Arjun Mk2 Specs 2
     Automatic Target Tracker
     Muzzle Reference System
     Mobility
     Driver Night Sight
    ERA
    Roof mounted Driver Seat
    Protection
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    Arjun Tank News Thread - Page 2 Empty Т-90MS Main Battle Tank

    Post  Austin on Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:51 pm

    Т-90MS Main Battle Tank
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    Post  Austin on Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:01 pm

    Can some one objectively compare the T-90MS with Arjun Mk2 ?  ( No nationalism just comparision based on merits , I have posted specs of T-90MS and Arjun Mk2 above )

    Its certain IA is buying additional T-90's  235 to be deployed in NE , Most likely though its not certain yet these would be T-90MS

    From FORCE
    The Indian Army is now said to have only 800 T-90 tanks in service out of a planned total of 1,657 (plus 235 from the latest order).

    As per article in Force by ex DGMF the upgrade path for T-72 and T-90 are as below


    By Lt Gen Dalip Bhardwaj (Retd)
    (The writer is former Director General Mechanised Forces)
    Quote:
    Current Status-Armour
    The current holding of tanks exceed 3000 comprising the T-72M1 which is the mainstay of the Armoured Corps, a number of regiments of the state-of-the-art T-90S and the indigenous Arjun tanks. An AFV once inducted is expected to be in service for 34 years before being declared obsolete. Hence, after a tank has been in service for a decade, a comprehensive modernisation package is initiated which is expected to be implemented within a span of five years, so as to ensure that the tank holds its own in the battlefield for the balance second half of its life in service.

    As a plethora of vendors are involved in modernising various sub-systems, the package is never introduced as a whole, hence, slippages occur and the tank is not available to the user for protracted periods. Ideally, the modernisation package must be implemented when the tank is withdrawn for its mid-life overhaul, however, this is only on paper as the schedule of overhaul and the modernisation package never coincide leading to a disjointed effort and wasteful expenditure.

    Tank T-72 M1:
    The tank was inducted into service in the early Eighties and after three decades the tanks issued to the first few regiments are being withdrawn from service without any major modernisation scheme being implemented. The modernisation programme includes:

    • Mobility: Uprating the engine to 1000 HP to ensure that the power to weight ratio is maintained despite having added additional weight. Trials for a suitable power pack were initiated a decade ago without success. The most suitable choice is the engine of the T-90 tank duly modified which would also ensure commonality of parts and reduction of the logistic chain.

    • Firepower: The most critical scheme is removal of night blindness by introducing the thermal imaging sight and enhancing its accuracy by fitting a modern fire control system. As regards night blindness, the older tanks were to be fitted with a thermal imaging stand alone sight (TISAS) and the newer tanks with a full solution fire control system (TIFCS).

    Whereas the TISAS programme has been successfully implemented, the delay has been in introducing the TIFCS. The plan to adopt the T-90 TIFCS was initiated which should have been the ideal solution, however due to issues of non-compliance of electro-magnetic interference/compatibility (EMI/EMC) the project was delayed. It is expected that both systems will be introduced by the end of 2014.

    • Protection: To give added protection two projects were initiated. First was the fitment of the explosive reactive armour (ERA) panels against chemical energy ammunition attack and second was the more ambitious Active Protection System (APS). Whereas the ERA panels are cleared and fitment is in progress, the APS which was included later will take time to be implemented due to its complexity and cost.

    Tank T-90S: The T-90S tank was first shown in Russia in 1993 and was procured by India in 2002. A total of 657 tanks were imported from Russia with a contract to manufacture 1000 tanks at HVF Avadi. Despite being a tank of recent origin, an upgraded package has already been formalised and would be implemented within the next three-five years. Notwithstanding, by the end of the decade at least 25 Armoured Regiment would be equipped with this state-of-the-art tank. The modernisation projects include:-

    • Firepower:
    The TIFCS has been given dual control with the Commander being able to exercise the same functions as the gunner. The 12.7 mm AD machine gun to be upgraded to a dual axis stabilised remote controlled weapon system. To engage moving targets more effectively, an automatic target tracker (ATT) needs to be fitted. The effectiveness of the Invar missile has to be enhanced to penetrate up to 1000 mm armour thickness.

    • Protection: The greatest benefit would be the fitment of the APS to defeat both the CE and KE ammunition. In addition, the ERA panels are to be upgraded to enhance protection by 250 mm, thereby even degrading a KE projectile to a very large extent.

    • Miscellaneous: To ensure that electronics in the tank function at peak efficiency even during the peak summer temperatures, an environment control system will be fitted. In addition to ensure that the life of the main engine is conserved an auxiliary power unit to be fitted. For better situational awareness, a battlefield management system will be fitted supported by a software defined radio (SDR).

    With the implementation of the above modernisation package, hopefully, within the next three-five years the T-90S will dominate the battlefield till 2030-35.
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    Post  TR1 on Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:50 pm

    Honestly, the Arjun 2 still has many many question marks, and the whole design just looks clunky and not yet finished.

    More question marks than answers at this point, but from Arjun 1 at least, the prognosis is not terribly promising.

    T-90MS is just a one off right now, if Russia (or anyone else buys it) it will be modified as well, so a direct comparison is pointless.
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    Post  Mindstorm on Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:46 pm

    Austin wrote:Can some one objectively compare the T-90MS with Arjun Mk2 ? ( No nationalism just comparison based on merits , I have posted specs of T-90MS and Arjun Mk2 above )



    I attempted ,in post 206 of this same thread, to offer a cold parametrical platform of evaluation for conduct a comparative trials of the performances of T-90S and Arjun MBTs in a realistic war mobilization and operational scheduled mission scenario taking into account equal Indian human ,material and financial resources.

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t2333p195-first-photos-of-t-95-and-t-90am


    In the comparison betweenT-90MS and latest DEFEXPO 2014 Arjun MKII we can observe ,above all what previously exposed, a significant worsening of the difference in the available engine power output ,ground nominal pressure and torque potential to weight ratio at Arjun-MKII’s disfavor.

    In particular this third parameter (torque potential), very important in deciding the acceleration performance of the MBT and therefore also the resulting Phit of enemy unguided direct fire -such as ,for example, enemy MBT's APFSDS rounds- in mobile engagements at medium range and over, we have a 2967 lb/ft torque potential (1130 hp at 2000 RPM) for the 48 ton T-90MS against the 3063 lb/ft torque potential (1400 hp at 2400 RPM) for the 63 ton Arjun MKII ; a crushing difference.


    The significant increase in weight of Arjun MKII (mostly fruit of the necessity to add multilayered armor package and ERA bricks long its enormous internal volume) obviously will also affect negatively the time for strategic mobility to the operation area with any Indian ferry asset and also its average tactical mobility in the theatre (for remain silent of the increasing logistical burden/tail and fuel requirements) with the result of a fearful force density overmatch by part of any enemy equipped with MBTs already enjoying a constitutive 33% numerical advantage in virtue of the lower crew requirement and about a 1:2 procurement and maintenance cost advantage.


    T-90MS ,in the end, offer a level of protection significantly higher ,also thanks to the employment of new armor composite materials and the integration of "Relikt" ERA, while providing an FCS ,with Kalina, and an overall vectronic suit at least on par with Arjun MKII (and ,as we well know, vectronic was the real area of primacy of Arjun in comparison to T-90S).


    I repeat one more time : leaving a part the "cyclic" Russian-bashing/pro-Western news ,strangely always citing supposed secret declarations by part of mythical "unnamed Indian officials" Laughing Laughing, coming from controlled sources.......and unluckily the controller is NOT Indian at all......such as Business Standard and the resulting cascade of flamed comments and cogitations by part of easily gullible people, Indian Army is perfectly aware of the cold operative implications of the MBT's metrics highlighted in post 206 and in this one, and its procurement choices are the result of this cold understanding and not of dark ,treacherous ,secret agreements with the evil Ruskies.   



    Ajai Shukla ,or any other for him, sustaining the opposite, would find itself in a very embarrassing situation if Indian Army would organize a big scale realistic war's mobilization and operation trial as proposed in post 206.
    Even more I seriously doubt that we would even only see theirs faces in such a realistic Indian Army trial with direct media coverage, for the simple reason that theirs ability to provide a "creative" version of the outcome or to refer supposed declarations of "unnamed Indian official" would be literally zero, and none could save them from the sad result of 30-40 T-90s already operating advancing and destroying enemy deep organizational and logistical structure in the same area that only 10-15 Arjun would have managed to reach.

    Even more them would have a very hard time at sell how credible the supposed declarations of the mythical "unnamed indian officials"  Laughing on the T-90S shooting performances when in any REAL trial with OFFICIAL declarations by part of authorities (the last one no more than some months ago in the Peru trials ) the results .....strangely...... are always the opposite.  Laughing 




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      Current date/time is Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:37 pm