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    Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

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    Militarov
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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  Militarov on Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:59 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Militarov wrote: There will have to be some differences in design between normal railcars and device we are talking about. Similar? Sure. Same platform? Sure. Identical? Unlikely.

    I dont think there are many that secure tunnels on railroad, especially not in Siberian part of railroad, its mostly quite flat, open field, tundra. Railroad limits operation areas alot, you literally removed 99,999% of Russian territory from the search list. I never said its easy to find them, however its alot easier than its with Topol-M/Jars as it can be almost anywhere, especially in Far East in wast flatland. Its like you operate nuclear submarine in a river.

    Well maybe not since war-planners assume enough similarity location can be kept enough secret. i presume they havew bette rview on situation then all armchair generals here with all respect gents.  Smile

    Militarov wrote:
    Sure, it has alot higher chances of surviving first strike than a silo based ICBMs... but where are you going to keep your railroad ICBMs in peacetime? On train station in Novosibirsk? I dont think so. They will most likely be grouped in 3-4 bases in Russia with railroad access with occasional drills, rest of the time they will spend in base grouped up, they will lose its main point.


    OK you think but do you have and data to support your thesis? the idea of train is to be in constant motion not in base. i would prefer to look at  nuke trains via number total traffic in Russian Railways:

    Exact data to be checked but this is just an order of magnitude.
    ~90,000 km tracks (AFAIK growing)
    2,5 bln ton transported yearly
    no of locomotives ~2000

    Do you think if amount couple of hundred trains running simultaneously it is s easy find right one? Us cannot launch hundreds of missiles just to disable all suspects...

    You know, "War-planners" came up with ideas like ICBMs being dropped from transport aircraft and submarine aircraft carriers too... and many other useless junk though time. Just coz someone with 3 stars and 3 years of college says something is great, doesnt rly mean it actually is. ICBM carrying train is good idea, it gives more versatility to the Strategic branch, but it has many flaws too.

    Noone in right mind is going to have 10-20 ICBMs on the move at any present time on railroad, noone would allow such thing, not even in Russia today, unless its some sort of very low frequency line or military only operated parts of railroad which i assume still exist. One thing is Jars, it can at worse flip over, you bring few machines to flip it back, now...derailing while moving 100km/h with 6 ICBMs on your back...you figure.


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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:45 pm

    Militarov wrote: You know, "War-planners" came up with ideas like ICBMs being dropped from transport aircraft and submarine aircraft carriers too... and many other useless junk though time. Just coz someone with 3 stars and 3 years of college says something is great, doesnt rly mean it actually is. ICBM carrying train is good idea, it gives more versatility to the Strategic branch, but it has many flaws too.

    There is perfectly good or bad solution. Train as all solutions has set of attributes which can be advantageous or disadvantageous. Apparently the first class prevails.

    [/quote]
    Noone in right mind is going to have 10-20 ICBMs on the move at any present time on railroad, noone would allow such thing, not even in Russia today, unless its some sort of very low frequency line or military only operated parts of railroad which i assume still exist.
    [/quote]

    Why not? why no one?


    One thing is Jars, it can at worse flip over, you bring few machines to flip it back, now...derailing while moving 100km/h with 6 ICBMs on your back...you figure.



    True, train can derail but sub can sink...ICBM can crash in silo and bomber crash during flight..BTW how many ICBM trains derailed in Soviet union?


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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  Militarov on Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:09 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Militarov wrote:  You know, "War-planners" came up with ideas like ICBMs being dropped from transport aircraft and submarine aircraft carriers too... and many other useless junk though time. Just coz someone with 3 stars and 3 years of college says something is great, doesnt rly mean it actually is. ICBM carrying train is good idea, it gives more versatility to the Strategic branch, but it has many flaws too.

    There is perfectly good or bad solution. Train as all solutions has set of attributes which can be advantageous or disadvantageous. Apparently the first class prevails.

    Noone in right mind is going to have 10-20 ICBMs on the move at any present time on railroad, noone would allow such thing, not even in Russia today, unless its some sort of very low frequency line or military only operated parts of railroad which i assume still exist.
    [/quote]

    Why not? why no one?


    One thing is Jars, it can at worse flip over, you bring few machines to flip it back, now...derailing while moving 100km/h with 6 ICBMs on your back...you figure.



    True, train can derail but sub can sink...ICBM can crash in silo and bomber crash  during flight..BTW how many ICBM trains derailed in Soviet union?

    [/quote]

    So wait... you would circle around your country 20 ICBM armed trains at every present moment? I am not sure if you are joking or not here. Big numbers theory says something very, very bad shall happen if such practice is kept for prolonged period of time Smile. For love of God took my unit 3 weeks to set train to transport 75 SAM HE-frag warheads for transport to be destroyed....

    Sure, sub can sink, but where? 6km deep in mid of Atlantic where it poses little or no threat to anyone. However train wreck 300km from Moscow is going to be one a hell of an issue...

    RT-23 Molodets were barely moved at all in Russia, they were in depots due to lack of money, from what i have read they were mostly static post 1992. and only few dozen cars was ever made (1 missile per car), locomotives were standard civilian ones. Which means they were in some normal operating state only 3 or 4 years. So experience from USSR is actually almost unexisting.

    ICBM in silo is actually the safest possible way of keeping nuclear weapons. Well, thats why bombers almost never fly with actual nuclear warheads.

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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  VladimirSahin on Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:11 pm

    Militarov why did it take so long to load the 75 KG warheads?

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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  Militarov on Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:16 pm

    VladimirSahin wrote:Militarov why did it take so long to load the 75 KG warheads?

    Eh...loading itself took 2-3 days. Why so long? Well, S-75 Dvina warheads plus its fuel, 75 pieces in total. You have to work in full protective suit, gloves...eye cover etc. Then special railcars were required, after that they were towed for inspection, nothing could be done without firefighters and sappers being present. Then when we loaded it, special duty locomotive came, and towed it for an inspection, which took time, then you wait for Railway company to give you special permission and route to move military equipment, especially dangerous like this. Then we had to provide escort of it.... whole process took almost 3 weeks in total i belive to move load some 150km.

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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  VladimirSahin on Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:52 pm

    Makes sense, 3 weeks still seems quite long though. Well Thanks for sharing your experience, Looking forward to other experiences. yes sir

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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  Militarov on Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:58 pm

    VladimirSahin wrote:Makes sense, 3 weeks still seems quite long though. Well Thanks for sharing your experience, Looking forward to other experiences. yes sir

    In peacetime hauling stuff like this takes ages especially via railway. Via trucks its somewhat easier, you load trucks, provide escort, you send notice to Police and whoala day or two. But we couldnt risk 40 years old highly corosive fuel transport that way.

    In wartime rules get loosen alot naturally.

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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  eehnie on Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:02 am

    Based on mobility, mobile systems by road are better than mobile systems by railway, and these are better than towed systems.

    I assume that systems designed for railway in Russia today are too big to use the habitual systems, and that towed systems are too big to be moved. Then I think every type would have a place.

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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  GarryB on Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:48 am

    That is like saying that sending out submarines is too dangerous... what if one hits a rock or an old mine and sinks...

    Risk is part of war.

    Do you think road mobile vehicles will remain in barracks until it is confirmed the US is attacking and then deployed in case something happens?

    The whole point of the new rail based ICBMs is that the new missiles are small enough to fit in standard carriages on standard tracks... even if you put them on a 100km loop track with a side track purpendicular to the main rail with the rail descending into an open topped rivetment where a whole train parked inside has side protection 360 degrees... you could deploy all your trains on such a rail network and move them every few periods of 20 minutes or so... with four or five S-400 and S-500 batteries in the middle and with proper rivetments requiring a very near miss to get a kill and of course these rail mounted ICBMs can be driven off the main track and down into one of these open topped tunnels to launch their missiles.... to ensure destruction you would need a nuclear explosion every km or so to ensure proper destruction of all the potential parking spaces... and by the time you ICBMs and even SLBMs had arrived the trains would be empty of missiles.


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    Russia developing new ICBMs capable of overcoming US missile shield

    Post  max steel on Wed May 11, 2016 12:21 am

    Russia developing new ICBMs capable of overcoming US missile shield

    According to the official, threats from the US missile defense system in Europe do not critically reduce combat capabilities of the Russian Strategic Missile Forces.

    Russia is developing new intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs) with special attention paid to their ability to penetrate the US missile shield, Russia’s Strategic Missile Force (SMF) Commander Sergey Karakayev said on Tuesday.

    Russia is currently carrying out active work on improving its means of overcoming the missile shield, he said.

    "This is conditioned by the fact that the United States is not stopping after what it has achieved and continues improving its missile defense system, including the deployment of its elements in Europe. That is why, special attention in the development of new missile complexes is paid to the issue of overcoming the missile shield," Karakayev said.

    Capabilities of Russian ballistic missiles increase "by reducing ICBM’s acceleration section, introducing new types of warheads with the flight path that is difficult to predict and new means of overcoming the missile defense system," Karakayev went on. Russian missiles are also capable of delivering warheads via energy optimal trajectory and of striking from multiple directions, "which forces the opposing side to ensure perimeter missile defense," he concluded.

    "This is achieved both through the ICBM’s shorter acceleration phase and new types of warheads with a hard-to-predict flight trajectory and new means of overcoming the missile shield," the commander said.

    According to the official, threats from the US missile defense system in Europe do not critically reduce combat capabilities of the Russian Strategic Missile Forces because Russian missiles are constantly upgraded.

    "Threats from the European segment of missile defense system for SMF are limited and do not critically reduce combat capabilities of SMF," Karakayev said.

    Strategic Missile Forces to have equal number of mobile, stationary ICBM launchers by 2021


    Kartakayev said that Russia’s Strategic Missile Forces will have an equal number of stationary and mobile ground ICBM launchers by 2021.
    "Considering the ratios of stationary and mobile groupings of the Strategic Missile Forces, it can be noted that at the turn of 2021, the quantitative indicators of these groupings will come to equal each other. However, the capabilities of the stationary grouping will continue to be higher due to the availability of heavy missiles," the commander said.


    Yars missile systems to make half of Russia’s Strategic Missile Forces

    The official has also noted that the Yars missile systems will make up half of the total effective combat strength of the Russian Strategic Missile Forces by 2021.

    "By late 2021, the Yars missile system will make up about half of the SMF effective combat strength," he said.
    According to him, practically all the mobile land-based missile divisions will be rearmed with this system, and the Tatishchevo (partly) and Kozelsk missile divisions will get the silo-based version of the Yars system.

    "The Yars missile system will form the basis of the forces’ mobile grouping. The SMF rearming with this system will offset the forces’ effective combat strength cuts at the turn of 2021 due to the forced decommissioning of the Topol mobile ground missile system the operating life of which will expire by the time, he said.

    According to him, a large number of combat equipment versions of the new missile systems Yars in conjunction with modern antimissile defense suppression systems installed on them will considerably improve capabilities of the advanced mobile grouping.

    Previously, Strategic Missile Force commander’s aide, Colonel General Viktor Yesin said that it is planned to fully equip all missile divisions of the Strategic Missile Forces with the Yars and Yars-M mobile ground missile systems with the RS-26 missile in 2021.

    The RS-24 Yars is Russia’s new intercontinental ballistic missile. It is an improved version of the previous Topol-M. It is known in the West as SS-29. It uses the same 16x16 wheeled chassis as the Topol-M. Externally it looks similar. However it carries an improved, heavier missile.

    The Yars was developed both as a road-mobile and silo-based system, that would use the same missile. It was first tested in 2007 and was adopted by the Russian Strategic Missile Forces in 2010.

    No new major test sites



    Karakayev has also pointed out that there are no plans for creating any more major test sites for ICBMs, but the emergence of mobile test facilities is a possibility.

    "Of late, there was a boom in the development of systems monitoring the tests of our missiles and special weapons, which allow for tracking the entire flight path of the delivery vehicles and warheads. This does not suit us for obvious reasons. Nevertheless, there are no immediate plans for creating more major test sites," he said.

    Karakayev said progress in digital information technologies, measurement means and the testing base allowed for the creation of re-deployable test complexes.

    "Moreover, the legal and regulatory base will allow the Strategic Missile Force to alienate for certain periods of time and use new required areas where dummy warheads might fall. Moreover, economically this is more feasible," he said.


    Russia’s strategic missile force to have 70% of advanced weapons by 2018



    According to Karakayev, the share of the strategic missile force’s advanced hardware will reach 70% by 2018.

    "The successful implementation of rearmament measures will build up the share of advanced missile complexes from 56% this year to 70% by January 1, 2018 and to 100% by 2022," he said.

    Karakayev said that the pace of the strategic missile force’s rearmament was established with due regard for the emergence of new types of missiles defenses, the withdrawal of previous generation inter-continental ballistic missiles from operation, compliance with international contracts and the capabilities of Russia’s arms manufacturing industry.

    "In any case, the priority task of all rearmament plans is to guarantee the strategic missile force’s capability to cope with diversified nuclear deterrence tasks," Karakayev said.


    Sarmat, Voyevoda heavy ICBM to four times excel light-class missiles


    Tactical effectiveness of the grouping of the Voyevoda and Sarmat heavy stationary intercontinental ballistic missiles is four times higher than that of the light-class Topol-M and Yars stationary missiles, Commander of the Russian Strategic Missile Forces (RVSN) Colonel General Sergei Karakayev told journalists on Tuesday.

    "The performance of the stationary grouping of the heavy ICBM (of the Voyevoda or Sarmat class) will four times surpass that of the stationary grouping of the light-class ICBM (Topol-M, Yars) by all the RVSN grouping tactical effectiveness parameters," he said.

    The RS-28 Sarmat is the state-of-the-art heavy liquid-propelled ICBM currently being developed for the Russian army.It is designed to replace the old Soviet R-36M missiles Voyevoda, codenamed Satan by NATO, as the heavy silo-based component of Russia's nuclear deterrence. The RS-28 has been in development since 2009 and is scheduled to start replacing the old ICBMs in 2018.



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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  sepheronx on Tue May 17, 2016 3:39 pm

    http://www.therussophile.org/russia-to-revive-missile-trains-as-u-s-launches-european-defense-system.html/

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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  Militarov on Sat Jun 11, 2016 5:28 am

    "An on-site inspection by U.S. nuclear arms inspectors in Russia this April has raised a few red flags. American inspectors were unable to verify if the Topol mobile intercontinental ballistic missiles slated for elimination were properly disposed. Both sides signed the New START treaty in 2010 which limits the total number of missiles and bombers deployed by each side to 700.
    During the inspection, the U.S. side was only allowed to see the missile canisters. It was also discovered that the missile components were unbolted from their launchers instead of being cut into pieces."


    Source: http://alert5.com/2016/06/10/u-s-inspectors-werent-able-to-verify-if-russia-had-properly-eliminated-topol-icbms/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  max steel on Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:03 am

    Russian Armageddon Convoy Practices for World War III


    The largest country in the world by area, Russia has plenty of room to hide things. Naturally, that includes nuclear missiles. Unlike American missiles, which are stationed in concrete silos, Russian intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs) are deployed on large truck-like vehicles designed to prowl the country's road networks before unleashing Armageddon.

    Russia Today has a story on a Russian strategic missile exercise that involves a massive convoy traveling from European-Russian border all the way to the Mongolian border. Russian mobile ICBMs have established, permanent bases but leave in groups on month-long patrols. This particular 400-vehicle convoy includes Topol, Topol-M, and Yars mobile missiles, as well as command and control, security, and logistics vehicles.

    Topol and Yars missiles are capable of delivering one to four nuclear warheads within roughly a thousand feet of their target, making them accurate enough to destroy American missiles in their silos. This makes them a formidable first-strike weapon capable of wiping out a significant part of the US nuclear arsenal, if the Russians were so inclined.

    The giant vehicles are TELs, or transporter-erector-launchers, specialized vehicles designed to give a heavy missile a smooth ride over rough roads. TELs not only store the missile but can launch it in the field. The launch tubes can be reloaded back at base (assuming, of course, there is a base to return to). The smaller vehicles are logistic, communications, and command and control vehicles.

    Mobile ICBMs are vulnerable to ground attack, particularly enemy special forces who may attempt to destroy the missiles before they are launched. The convoy relies upon a Taifun-M armored reconnaissance vehicle to detect ambushes on the ground. Taifun-M bristles with sensors, including forward-looking infra-red, radar, and traditional optics, and can allegedly detect enemy troops at 3 kilometers.

    Also part of the convoy is a tracked robotic vehicle equipped with a machine gun. The unmanned vehicle can more quickly close with an enemy threat and eliminate it before the enemy can shoot at the giant, highly flammable rockets with nuclear warheads strapped to them.We've said it before, and we'll say it again: these mobile ICBMs are terrifying.


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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:41 am

    max steel wrote:Russian Armageddon Convoy Practices for World War III


    The largest country in the world by area, Russia has plenty of room to hide things. Naturally, that includes nuclear missiles. Unlike American missiles, which are stationed in concrete silos, Russian intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs) are deployed on large truck-like vehicles designed to prowl the country's road networks before unleashing Armageddon.

    Also part of the convoy is a tracked robotic vehicle equipped with a machine gun. The unmanned vehicle can more quickly close with an enemy threat and eliminate it before the enemy can shoot at the giant, highly flammable rockets with nuclear warheads strapped to them.We've said it before, and we'll say it again: these mobile ICBMs are terrifying.


    bwahahahah Russian doctrine says about retaliation so III WW can ba unleashed by US only. As we can see in abovementioned example pop mech is part of info war (IIWW component) against Russia.


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