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    Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

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    max steel
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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  max steel on Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:37 am

    And your signature is factually incorrect, more of a wet dream.

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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  Militarov on Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:46 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Project Canada wrote:with all the dumb fkery the US and NATO are doing to destroy Russia both internally and externally, Russia should take a more tougher response! maybe pull out from the treaty that prohibits nuke weapons in space and start reviving FOBS weapons, make life more horrifying for NATO that any more stupid move from them will lead to global extinction! I hate how events are unfolding now, Russia should really work on crashing the US economy, I dont care what scaremongers say about the severe global consequences of a bankrupt USA, just make it happen and deal with the consequences when the monster is gone.

    I am also fan of of FOBS as good way to have lever against NATO homeland countries. Not against military but to make sure all Europe will be radioactive desert if bandits attack Russia.

    As you see in my signature IMHO best opportunity to keep US at bay is to have nukes powerful enough to trigger Yellowstone super-volcano. Below map of destruction zone. USA really screwed then...




    Actually for such event to happen you would need to place nuclear warhead couple hundred m under the surface of Yellowstone and then to detonate it.

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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:16 am

    Militarov wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    As you see in my signature IMHO best opportunity to keep US at bay is to have nukes powerful enough to trigger Yellowstone super-volcano. Below map of destruction zone. USA really screwed then...

    Actually for such event to happen you would need to place nuclear warhead couple hundred m under the surface of Yellowstone and then to detonate it.

    Well I presume that neither you nor myself are geologists and nuclear physicists. It is not my idea I just am fan of it if possible make such trigger if would create devastation zones on more then 50% of US. Rest traditional nukes and tsunamis.

    Quite cost effective solution in case of Russia´s cost of arms race.


    max steel wrote:And your signature is factually incorrect, more of a wet dream.

    Why not correct if may I ask?

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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  max steel on Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:25 am


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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:01 pm


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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  max steel on Fri Dec 25, 2015 6:21 am

    Russia Develops Automated Re-targeting Control System For ICBMs Cool

    Russia’s new automated system will help retarget intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) instantly before the launch.“The new system will be put into operation from next year. The Russian Strategic Missile Force’s combat troops had received a new combat control system to promptly retarget missiles,” Strategic Missile Force Commander Sergey Karakayev was quoted as saying by TASS news agency Thursday. "The talk is about retargeting Russian intercontinental ballistic missiles immediately before their launch when a need arises suddenly to deliver a strike against other unplanned targets due to a sharp change in the situation.

    In this case, the new control system will enter new target coordinates into a missile in a remote control mode instantly to destroy the targets," the news agency quoted an unnamed source as saying.

    If a missile has been launched, it can’t be retargeted, the source said. Today not a single nuclear power has such technology, the source added.




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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  George1 on Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:10 am

    Strategic Missile Forces will complete the modernization of the radar at the Sary-Shagan in 2016

    On the test site we put all the necessary equipment, carried out installation and commissioning works

    MOSCOW, January 2. / TASS /. Upgrade test radar "Neman-P" at the Sary-Shagan in Kazakhstan will be completed in 2016, said the spokesman of the Defense Ministry of the Strategic Missile Forces, Major Dmitry Andreev.
    According to him, the landfill have put all the necessary equipment are ongoing installation and commissioning work.
    "In 2016, completed the modernization of the experimental test radar" Neman-P ", aimed at increasing information capabilities and increased lines of work stations, life extension and improvement of its operational reliability," - said Andreev.
    Earlier, the Strategic Missile Forces plan to complete the modernization of the radar station in 2016.
    From 1981 to 1991, "Neman-R" participated in measurements at more than 300 launches of ballistic missiles in the framework of the test warheads and systems to overcome air defense, including missile systems, "Pioneer" and "Topol". In addition, the station has been involved in the testing of the national missile defense system A-135.

    Подробнее на ТАСС:
    https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/2569230&usg=ALkJrhgXdQaWcLoln7DfXqzS3tqdEY-nRA


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    max steel
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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  max steel on Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:45 am

    In 2016, the Rocket Forces plan to conduct 16 ICBM launches


    According to Karakayev's interview, two of them will be life extension launches and 14 - development.

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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  George1 on Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:43 pm

    Barguzin rail-mobile ICBM axed, Project 4202 lives on

    http://russianforces.org/blog/2016/04/barguzin_rail-mobile_icbm_is_a.shtml


    Deployment of RS-24 Yars and RS-26 Rubezh in Irkutsk

    http://russianforces.org/blog/2016/04/deployment_of_rs-24_yars_and_r.shtml


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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:51 pm

    The rail based ICBM system was an odd decision really. Didn't make too much sense. Mobile (road) does. But it I shelved for now. Save money for projects that is really needed.

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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  max steel on Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:58 pm

    lol1 I wrote it in the Rail-ICBM thread but again they've not mentioned any source to prove their claim that's why I avoided.

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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:00 pm

    max steel wrote:lol1  I wrote it in the Rail-ICBM thread but again they've not mentioned any source to prove their claim that's why I avoided.

    They really need to provide sources. Makes them look amateurish. But if news is true, then OK.

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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:19 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    max steel wrote:lol1  I wrote it in the Rail-ICBM thread but again they've not mentioned any source to prove their claim that's why I avoided.

    They really need to provide sources. Makes them look amateurish. But if news is true, then OK.

    A lot of their sources are based on word of mouth, and or sources that you cant verify the credibility of (good ole' "unnamed" sources Rolling Eyes)  which is a reason to avoid the site.

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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  Militarov on Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:15 am

    http://russianforces.org in general is full of crap and BS, every month they release article on some USSR project from 80s/70s being revived, and not a single word about it anywhere else. Clickbiters.

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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  kvs on Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:15 am

    Militarov wrote:http://russianforces.org in general is full of crap and BS, every month they release article on some USSR project from 80s/70s being revived, and not a single word about it anywhere else. Clickbiters.

    Pavel Podvig is a liberast 5th column clown. The purpose of that site is engage in anti-Russian psyops. Much like Zak's Russianspaceweb
    which poses as one thing but pushes the Atlanticist agenda.

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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  GarryB on Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:05 pm

    Rail based ICBMs are actually better than road mobile ICBMs because although rail models are limited to rails they can also move rather faster and there are plenty of rails and sidings in Russia to move to.

    Even a side track with earth mounds built up on either side and the front and rear would be enough to protect it from anything but a very near miss... and the west does not have enough nuclear weapons to cover every 1000km of Russian rail track let alone every 200kms.


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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  Militarov on Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:50 pm

    GarryB wrote:Rail based ICBMs are actually better than road mobile ICBMs because although rail models are limited to rails they can also move rather faster and there are plenty of rails and sidings in Russia to move to.

    Even a side track with earth mounds built up on either side and the front and rear would be enough to protect it from anything but a very near miss... and the west does not have enough nuclear weapons to cover every 1000km of Russian rail track let alone every 200kms.

    But they have significant disadvantages in areas where you can deploy them, and enemy sort of has alot easier job detecting them as he knows they simply HAVE to be somewhere on railroad Smile Destruction of key points on railroads like bridges and major crossroads can severely reduce its effectiveness. But still i dont mind having such platform just for sake of diversity.

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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  kvs on Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:31 am

    Militarov wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Rail based ICBMs are actually better than road mobile ICBMs because although rail models are limited to rails they can also move rather faster and there are plenty of rails and sidings in Russia to move to.

    Even a side track with earth mounds built up on either side and the front and rear would be enough to protect it from anything but a very near miss... and the west does not have enough nuclear weapons to cover every 1000km of Russian rail track let alone every 200kms.

    But they have significant disadvantages in areas where you can deploy them, and enemy sort of has alot easier job detecting them as he knows they simply HAVE to be somewhere on railroad Smile Destruction of key points on railroads like bridges and major crossroads can severely reduce its effectiveness. But still i dont mind having such platform just for sake of diversity.

    The key is that the enemy cannot target the rail ICBMs like bridges since it does not know where on the rails they are at any given instant
    and even if the enemy manages to have spies pin their locations (very doubtful) and target them with a first strike they can be moved while
    the enemy ICBMs are incoming. So they are just as useful as road mobile ICBMs but can be heavier. They remove the first strike advantage.
    There is no need for these mobile ICBMs to be shuffled around the whole territory in some ergodic domain filling operation. The main thing is
    to be able to move them far enough from any point of impact of enemy warheads.

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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  Austin on Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:59 pm

    I dont think the news of cancellation of Rail Based ICBM is true , just few days back they mentioned they were training crew for that system.

    Lets hear the official verison , Pavel lately has been aggresively part of Atlantist agenda , His pay master must have told him so.

    Else who post news like Bulava test failed when there is no offical information of bulava launch

    http://russianforces.org/blog/2016/03/salvo_bulava_launch_from_vladi.shtml

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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  sepheronx on Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:21 pm

    Austin wrote:I dont think the news of cancellation of Rail Based ICBM is true , just few days back they mentioned they were training crew for that system.

    Lets hear the official verison , Pavel lately has been aggresively part of Atlantist agenda  , His pay master must have told him so.

    Else who post news like Bulava test failed when there is no offical information of bulava launch

    http://russianforces.org/blog/2016/03/salvo_bulava_launch_from_vladi.shtml

    Take a look at this one:

    In fact, according to a recent report Izvestia, which quotes its sources, the second missile failed as well - the missile self-destructed at some point after launch. After the failure all missiles were reportedly removed from the submarine and sent to the Votkinsk plant for a check-up. Izvestia is hardly the most reliable sources, but there is no particular reason not to believe this report. The ministry of defense, of course, reported complete success at the time, but that appears to be incorrect.

    So the ministry of defense states it was a success with a video showing two launches from that day, and then this moron then claims do not believe it, believe Izvestia who has a track record of BS, with no evidence?

    Edit: So I got angry reading that stupid comment of the authors so I decided to register and provide this:
    @ Frank Shuler

    This is a load of BS and of course, the author of this website provides absolutely no proof. Pure speculations on everything and it is pretty pathetic. Here is the problem - The Izvestia article is incoherent as mentioned before, and it provides no sources or any data to back up. Then the author admits that Izvestia is a poor source. But then when the MoD provides a video showing the launches and talk of it, for some reason, we are lead to believe that the izvestia article is true just because the author states:

    "but there is no particular reason not to believe this report"

    and

    "reported complete success at the time, but that appears to be incorrect."

    So, author, what exactly is the reason to believe a two bit media outlet like izvestia that provides nothing (neither do yourself) over the MoD that provides even a video of the launches? Because you said so and that is it?

    As well, just a note, please start using not only real sources, but also provide some sort of linkage to your sources for all other data. Otherwise, makes yourself look like a two bit journalist.

    It is awaiting mod approval. For some reason I don't think it will happen.

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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  max steel on Fri Apr 08, 2016 3:34 pm

    Well the website is good no second thoughts on that but as Austin said even I noticed the same for past few months ( since syrian intervention) Podvig has been aggresively pushing the Atlantist agenda. I go by the name ' Dan Dare' and I posted my views on Status-6 Article but later i saw my comment disappeared. When I was reasoning with other posters on US ABM in Europe, SM-3 Missiles up-gradation etc.

    Since then they don't post my comment directly , it goes to blog owner for approval but never gets approved. I asked for official statement/proof regarding cancellation of 4202 programme.

    I read the same Bulava missile failure thread and again it was a disappointment. First Bulava Missile did fail that's true you can check the Bulava SLBM thread but he claimed second missile failed too which is preposterous , quoted article seemed so incoherent that I would hardly call it reliable. Ryan Alt is a voice of reason there.

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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 09, 2016 5:12 pm

    But they have significant disadvantages in areas where you can deploy them, and enemy sort of has alot easier job detecting them as he knows they simply HAVE to be somewhere on railroad Smile Destruction of key points on railroads like bridges and major crossroads can severely reduce its effectiveness. But still i dont mind having such platform just for sake of diversity.

    Not true... there are plenty of covered railways they could be hidden in... including underground metros... and there could be various tunnels in which they could be hidden.

    The critical thing is how much they can be made to look like other innocent traffic.

    Destruction of rail lines will effect mobility but not prevent them launching their weapons...

    The reality is that not being a fixed location easily targeted means rail mounted ICBMs are largely protected from a retaliatory nuke strike... their best feature come to the fore in an enemy mounted first strike.

    The ability of the enemy to locate and identify ICBMs on trains in real time and actually deliver a strike to actually destroy them hinges on total air superiority and the enemy not interfering with their space and air based recon assets... they could not even achieve that in Iraq.

    It is a question of finding a needle in a haystack of needles... or needlestack... on a very short deadline because once it is clear you are trying to destroy them you hand the real first strike capability to your enemy...

    The key is that the enemy cannot target the rail ICBMs like bridges since it does not know where on the rails they are at any given instant
    and even if the enemy manages to have spies pin their locations (very doubtful) and target them with a first strike they can be moved while
    the enemy ICBMs are incoming. So they are just as useful as road mobile ICBMs but can be heavier. They remove the first strike advantage.
    There is no need for these mobile ICBMs to be shuffled around the whole territory in some ergodic domain filling operation. The main thing is
    to be able to move them far enough from any point of impact of enemy warheads.

    And even a small siding built like a rivetment on a runway for aircraft will require a near miss to be effective.... 40 or 50 sidings with tunnels could be used... some of them could even be made public so passengers could stretch their legs and get a meal or something...

    Road mobile missiles can't just drive down any road they don't corner like most vehicles and need long sweeping curves to turn so they don't just drive anywhere they like...


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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Apr 10, 2016 11:41 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Rail based ICBMs are actually better than road mobile ICBMs because although rail models are limited to rails they can also move rather faster and there are plenty of rails and sidings in Russia to move to.

    Even a side track with earth mounds built up on either side and the front and rear would be enough to protect it from anything but a very near miss... and the west does not have enough nuclear weapons to cover every 1000km of Russian rail track let alone every 200kms.

    But they have significant disadvantages in areas where you can deploy them, and enemy sort of has alot easier job detecting them as he knows they simply HAVE to be somewhere on railroad Smile Destruction of key points on railroads like bridges and major crossroads can severely reduce its effectiveness. But still i dont mind having such platform just for sake of diversity.

    1.) It's been stated already they cant cover 100% of Russia's territory, they don't have enough satellites to cover ever km of Russian rail 24/7 365. You seem to completely forget that not all rail is in the open, some of it's underground, and what's stops the use of decoys, disguises, Nakidka kits, electromagnetic opaque aerosol fog generators? What's stops the use of hidden rail and train bunkers with retractable and mechanized foliage, shrubbery, vegetation, and landscape to disguise it's location?

    2.) It'll be orders of magnitude easier to identify a Topol-M launcher, which is unmistakable, compared to the new rail ICBM because unlike the old version the cargo freight will be indistinguishable from civilian cargo freight. You also seem to forgotten that an ICBM train will have an enormous payload capacity, so what's stops the development of freight container versions of Panstir-S1, S-400, S-500, A-235/Nudol utilizing ROFAR OHR, or even offensive systems like Kornet-M, 120 mm howizer, AS-40 grenade launcher, Vasilek 82mm automatic mortar, or some 57 mm cannons?

    3.) There's also the potential of creating fast rail or even maglev equivalents in the future, and KRET has stated that they are looking in to developing ROFAR for civil trains to detect anomaly's in the way of freight trains or in the track itself, it wouldn't be stretch that the military version (combined with powerful IRST optics) would have a ROFAR to add long range vision, with high accuracy and resolution to prevent any sabotage from the air or on the ground.

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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  Militarov on Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:02 am

    GarryB wrote:
    But they have significant disadvantages in areas where you can deploy them, and enemy sort of has alot easier job detecting them as he knows they simply HAVE to be somewhere on railroad Smile Destruction of key points on railroads like bridges and major crossroads can severely reduce its effectiveness. But still i dont mind having such platform just for sake of diversity.

    Not true... there are plenty of covered railways they could be hidden in... including underground metros... and there could be various tunnels in which they could be hidden.

    The critical thing is how much they can be made to look like other innocent traffic.

    Destruction of rail lines will effect mobility but not prevent them launching their weapons...

    The reality is that not being a fixed location easily targeted means rail mounted ICBMs are largely protected from a retaliatory nuke strike... their best feature come to the fore in an enemy mounted first strike.

    The ability of the enemy to locate and identify ICBMs on trains in real time and actually deliver a strike to actually destroy them hinges on total air superiority and the enemy not interfering with their space and air based recon assets... they could not even achieve that in Iraq.

    It is a question of finding a needle in a haystack of needles... or needlestack... on a very short deadline because once it is clear you are trying to destroy them you hand the real first strike capability to your enemy...

    The key is that the enemy cannot target the rail ICBMs like bridges since it does not know where on the rails they are at any given instant
    and even if the enemy manages to have spies pin their locations (very doubtful) and target them with a first strike they can be moved while
    the enemy ICBMs are incoming. So they are just as useful as road mobile ICBMs but can be heavier. They remove the first strike advantage.
    There is no need for these mobile ICBMs to be shuffled around the whole territory in some ergodic domain filling operation. The main thing is
    to be able to move them far enough from any point of impact of enemy warheads.



    And even a small siding built like a rivetment on a runway for aircraft will require a near miss to be effective.... 40 or 50 sidings with tunnels could be used... some of them could even be made public so passengers could stretch their legs and get a meal or something...

    Road mobile missiles can't just drive down any road they don't corner like most vehicles and need long sweeping curves to turn so they don't just drive anywhere they like...

    There will have to be some differences in design between normal railcars and device we are talking about. Similar? Sure. Same platform? Sure. Identical? Unlikely.

    I dont think there are many that secure tunnels on railroad, especially not in Siberian part of railroad, its mostly quite flat, open field, tundra.

    Railroad limits operation areas alot, you literally removed 99,999% of Russian territory from the search list. I never said its easy to find them, however its alot easier than its with Topol-M/Jars as it can be almost anywhere, especially in Far East in wast flatland. Its like you operate nuclear submarine in a river. Sure, it has alot higher chances of surviving first strike than a silo based ICBMs... but where are you going to keep your railroad ICBMs in peacetime? On train station in Novosibirsk? I dont think so. They will most likely be grouped in 3-4 bases in Russia with railroad access with occasional drills, rest of the time they will spend in base grouped up, they will lose its main point.

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    Re: Strategic Missile Troops (ICBMs): Discussion & News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:41 am

    Militarov wrote: There will have to be some differences in design between normal railcars and device we are talking about. Similar? Sure. Same platform? Sure. Identical? Unlikely.

    I dont think there are many that secure tunnels on railroad, especially not in Siberian part of railroad, its mostly quite flat, open field, tundra. Railroad limits operation areas alot, you literally removed 99,999% of Russian territory from the search list. I never said its easy to find them, however its alot easier than its with Topol-M/Jars as it can be almost anywhere, especially in Far East in wast flatland. Its like you operate nuclear submarine in a river.

    Well maybe not since war-planners assume enough similarity location can be kept enough secret. i presume they havew bette rview on situation then all armchair generals here with all respect gents. Smile

    Militarov wrote:
    Sure, it has alot higher chances of surviving first strike than a silo based ICBMs... but where are you going to keep your railroad ICBMs in peacetime? On train station in Novosibirsk? I dont think so. They will most likely be grouped in 3-4 bases in Russia with railroad access with occasional drills, rest of the time they will spend in base grouped up, they will lose its main point.


    OK you think but do you have and data to support your thesis? the idea of train is to be in constant motion not in base. i would prefer to look at nuke trains via number total traffic in Russian Railways:

    Exact data to be checked but this is just an order of magnitude.
    ~90,000 km tracks (AFAIK growing)
    2,5 bln ton transported yearly
    no of locomotives ~2000

    Do you think if amount couple of hundred trains running simultaneously it is s easy find right one? Us cannot launch hundreds of missiles just to disable all suspects...

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