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    Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

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    LMFS

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  LMFS on Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:48 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    LMFS wrote:So, it not only the engine but also the propeller. There has been lots of advance in that regard since the design of the Tu-95
    I would say, especially the propeller.

    Regardless of the application, propellers/fans have changed enormously over the past 20 years let alone 50 years. Just look at the humble cooling fan in your PC or car engine, let alone the prop on a C-130J or A-400M, or even a submarine.

    Its the computer power now in CAD directly influencing power efficiency from an engine.
    If they prevent the tips from being supersonic they will reduce noise many times over, this is probably the reason for the noise reduction mentioned in the article. Probably this has an effect in efficiency too, though I can't quantify it. There was development with UDF engines and similar propeller solutions for high subsonic airliners with extreme degrees of fuel efficiency, it would be funny now to see the Tu-95 as the most fuel-economical bomber 60 years after its inception Very Happy

    hoom

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  hoom on Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:20 pm

    Wow new props too!
    Smaller diameter/bigger area/more blades to get same drive from lower RPM & therefore bring tip speed subsonic?!
    Contra-rotating is still going to be noisy though.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  GarryB on Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:52 am

    Actually the Bear is no where near as noisy and some other aircraft... the Harvard for one...

    The speed of the blades on the Bear are much slower than suspected in the west and generate more thrust with a coarser pitch for normal flight.

    Coaxial design increases the number of blades and further increases thrust without increasing blade length.

    The Bear is still the worlds fastest propeller driven aircraft... and the only propeller driven aircraft that requires a swept wing.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:43 am

    Although slower, officially, its
    The Tupolev Tu-114, a large aircraft with four turboprop engines, has a maximum speed of 878 km/h (540 mph, Mach 0.73). The 11,000 kW (15,000 hp) Kuznetsov NK-12 turboprop engines designed for the Tupolev Tu-95 (and used to power the derivative Tu-114) are the most powerful turboprops ever built and drive large contra-rotating propellers. This engine-propeller combination gives the Tu-114 the official distinction of being the fastest propeller-driven aircraft in the world, a record it has held since 1960.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fastest_propeller-driven_aircraft#Turboprops
    The VVS didn't bother updating it with relevant world aviation bodies!

    mnztr

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  mnztr on Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:37 pm

    Does anyone have any detailed info on the new engines on the Bear, I am going to MAKS next year and look forward to seeing all the amazing Russian planes for the first time. The Bear still looks very futureistic in a steampunk kinda way. With schimitar props on this beast, who knows what it could do. I bet engine and prop updates can easily gain 20% in range.
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  d_taddei2 on Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:52 pm

    I have pics of Tu-95 and Tu-22m including one of me standing next to the blades of a Tu-95 gives you and idea of the size. Can be found along with other pics here on this forum if anyone is interested.

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t3372-my-pics-and-vids
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:20 am

    Some good info. & pics here too:
    https://lenta.ru/articles/2018/01/30/blackjack/
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  JohninMK on Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:41 am

    Over the North Sea today

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    George1

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  George1 on Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:13 am

    Beriev supplied another upgraded Tu-95MS aircraft with the onboard number "54" for the Russian long-range strategic aviation.



    https://kot-or-osl.livejournal.com/2229138.html


    hoom

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  hoom on Sat Sep 22, 2018 4:27 pm

    What is this heresy! affraid
    A painted Tu-95 No
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Sep 22, 2018 4:47 pm

    hoom wrote:What is this heresy! affraid
    A painted Tu-95 No

    its a stealth paint Razz Razz Razz
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    Hole

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  Hole on Sat Sep 22, 2018 4:58 pm

    This is not the first to be painted.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:47 pm

    Tu-95MS to the retaliatory strike is ready
    "Major repairs and modernization'll allow the "Bear" to fly until the mid. XXI century"

    mnztr

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  mnztr on Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:19 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Tu-95MS to the retaliatory strike is ready
    "Major repairs and modernization'll allow the "Bear" to fly until the mid. XXI century"

    Are those the upgraded engines? I was hoping for more advanced props like a propfan

    hoom

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  hoom on Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:25 am

    Thats just the same pic as above of recently completed upgrade to current standard.
    Prototype of the new standard is said to be due for first flight late 2019 so I think we're fairly unlikely to see it till then.
    On the other hand presumably they'll need to flight-test the new engine/props on an existing airframe first so we might see that before?

    As much as I'd love to see big An-70 style raked scythe blades


    They seem to have gone for a relatively conservative type on new TV7-117 for Il-112


    though the ones they used for flying tests has raked leading edge, flat back

    mnztr

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  mnztr on Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:59 am

    I assume they will be using a counter rotating prop? If not even with 6 blades the prop radius will be HUGE. I really hope they seek to break new ground in prop fans with this engine. The incredible power of this engine is still unbeaten in the turbo prop world and I think it has HUGE potential for future airliners engines. Maybe they will go with 4 rows or maybe counterrotating 6 blade to keep the tips subsonic.

    hoom

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  hoom on Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:00 am

    So I did a bit of digging about Aerosila they named as supplier of new Tu-95 props study
    Turns out they're the continuation of the main Soviet propeller developer/manufacturer since i-15 in the late '30s including the props for Tu-95, An-70 & Il-112/114. (as well as various other related products)

    Mostly seems to have been working on APUs recently though Neutral
    But apparently are equipped with modern digital design/manufacturing gear & those Il-112/114 props do give some recent experience.

    Interestingly the Technical page for SV-27 (raked scythe blades for An-70, btw its 8 blades front, 6 blades rear)
    http://aerosila.ru/en/products/vozdushnye-vinty-ivintoventilyatory-dlya-samoletov/vintoventilyatory-klass-tyagi-10000-kgs
    says its designed for 11,000hp, but the History page says 'later' 14,000hp.
    Still short of the quoted 15,000hp for new Tu-95 engine but pretty close so it may indeed be the case that the new prop is a variant of the An-70 prop sunny
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    Hole

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  Hole on Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:20 am

    The new propellers are called AV-60T. They are a refined version of the currently used props.

    mnztr

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  mnztr on Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:23 pm

    Hole wrote:The new propellers are called AV-60T. They are a refined version of the currently used props.

    Hmm that does not sound like more then an incremental step. I was really hoping they would go with counter rotating 6 bladed schimitar fans....

    hoom

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  hoom on Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:43 am

    Well thats much less fun Sad
    I guess my first instinct of minimal change was right.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:16 am

    hoom wrote:Well thats much less fun Sad
    I guess my first instinct of minimal change was right.

    and what is wrong with incremental steps? Su30SM is an incremental step form Su-27 too

    hoom

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  hoom on Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:17 am

    Because as well as looking amazingly cool there is a big efficiency/noise difference between the raked scythe style props & the conventional blade style of the original props.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:38 pm

    But clearly not enough to warrant a change...
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:59 pm

    hoom wrote:Because as well as looking amazingly cool there is a big efficiency/noise difference between the raked scythe style props & the conventional blade style of the original props.

    But new scythe are those updated ones?

    mnztr

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  mnztr on Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:31 pm

    GarryB wrote:But clearly not enough to warrant a change...

    perhaps at the very high speeds TU-95 reaches vs other prop planes the requirements are different

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