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    Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

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    Isos

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  Isos on Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:38 am


    As i said A-60 project was funded abit https://theaviationist.com/tag/beriev-a-60/

    They had during soviet time a ground based laser that I forget the name with which they tried to blind US satelites. But it wasn't precise and they failed. An airborn version would be worse and even US stoped their own program.

    A land version should be easier to design and operate.

    Same for anti satelites missile, it should be easier to use S-500 for that with a special missile with a big booster to replace the fighter task of lunching it from altitude.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  Big_Gazza on Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:38 am

    Isos wrote:Destroying a satelite is dangerous for the other satelites too, so for your own satelites because of all the small pieces produced by the explosion. They should invest in laser technology to burn the optics and electronics.

    Ground-based directed energy weapons would inevitably be lasers, and beam divergence issues will greatly restrict beam power on target. A simple satellite countermeasure against laser attack on optics & sensors is to fit them with shutters activated by laser energy detectors. Sensors won't be blinded within the reaction time of the laser detector-shutter combo. Sensors and camera optics could also be concealed behind optical deflectors such that optical path is usually diverted to a laser energy detector, and the path is only opened to the sensor when laser energy is absent. Path is left open only as long as needed. In peace time, the path can be left open by default so that surveillance is continuous, but in times of tension/crisis the countermeasures could be activated and sensors only revealed when safe and as needed for snapshots.

    Clearly this doesn't work for missile EW birds that need to be active continuously, but since they sit in high geosynch orbit, there is no way a ground based laser could focus sufficient beam power to effectively attack them, and any effort at blinding them would be interpreted as a prelude to thermonuclear exchange, making such an attack a REALLY stupid idea.

    Star Trek solutions aren't the way to go, instead concentrate on using kinetic energy to decrease the birds "structural integrity".... attack
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    GarryB

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:02 pm

    Over time lasers are becoming more powerful and more capable and cheaper, but of course it will be a while before they are actually anything close to being called cheap.

    Telescopes for looking at stars have deformable mirrors to compensate for the atmosphere to give a clear view of space from the ground and the same technique could be used for lasers too.


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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:05 pm

    GarryB wrote:Over time lasers are becoming more powerful and more capable and cheaper, but of course it will be a while before they are actually anything close to being called cheap.


    Till then pretty interesting is microwave application to "cook" electronics.

    Peŕrier

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  Peŕrier on Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:09 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Wasn't Tu-22M supposed to fill that position as ASAT? It meets I think all the parameters.

    Mig-25D, and the F-15 / ASM-135 combo on the US side, were expected to climb almost vertically before launching their interceptors.

    Maybe todays rocket propulsion technology could make a shallow climb launch feasible, otherwise no bombers could ever deploy those kind of interceptors, just because it lacks the ability to climb very steeply at high altitudes.

    Anyway, I would be very skeptical of any bomber deployed for such kind of missions.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  GarryB on Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:56 am

    Mig-25D, and the F-15 / ASM-135 combo on the US side, were expected to climb almost vertically before launching their interceptors.

    They certainly zoom climbed, but nothing like a vertical climb... that would be engine power only climbs... a steep but non vertical climb would allow greater height and speed... a vertical climb would mean at their highest point they had stopped moving and were about to start falling, whereas a parabolic climb means they retain relatively high speed and also gain extra altitude over what they could manage in level flight.


    Maybe todays rocket propulsion technology could make a shallow climb launch feasible, otherwise no bombers could ever deploy those kind of interceptors, just because it lacks the ability to climb very steeply at high altitudes.

    The purpose of launching from an aircraft is to avoid the thickest lowest part of the atmosphere and to give it a boost in speed by having it already climbing when it is launched instead of a launch pad launch where it is stationary and has to overcome its own momentum and then travel through the thickest part of the atmosphere.

    I have seen launch proposals where an An-124 or An-225 fly at 10,000m at obviously subsonic speed and roll a large rocket out the back on a parachute with a metal structure around it to prevent it snapping in half under its own weight... the structure falls away and the main rocket fires and it therefore starts out going backwards but its rocket overcomes gravity and carries it off up into space... not exactly ideal but you could launch it at the equator and get a boost from the earth rotation to reach higher orbits...

    Anyway, I would be very skeptical of any bomber deployed for such kind of missions.

    I have never seen this Tu-22M launch aircraft but the B-52 is used for the X-15 rocket plane, and there were proposals for the Tu-95 to do something similar in the 1990s with hypersonic test aircraft. The Tu-160 was suggested as a space launcher but their were simply not enough of them for the bomber role let alone any other role.


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    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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