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    Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

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    mnztr

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  mnztr on Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:16 am

    Do they have the revised engines in production yet? I heard they plan to order 10 for the first batch and produce 50 in total.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:18 am

    Yeah, last I heard the NK engines are ready for production.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:26 am


    There should have been 4 unfinished frames left, this one is built from one of those so 3 more remaining

    After that they will be making them from scratch

    No.

    There were four left after production stopped but they completed two of those in the late 1990s. The two remaining were not built because the ability to work on large titanium structures was lost as the forge was in the Ukraine.

    The two remaining aircraft have now been completed and are the new Tu-160Ms being shown as new models, so they will likely look very similar to the old models.

    New aircraft produced now will be from scratch builds so may have more changes made in the design.

    Do new Tu-160Ms extend the bomb bay and revise the rotated launchers for longer missiles like Kh-101/102?

    The two original bomb bays of the Tu-160 were huge already... something like 9 metres long each so there is no need to make them longer for the Kh-101/102.

    Do they have the revised engines in production yet? I heard they plan to order 10 for the first batch and produce 50 in total.

    AFAIK the NK-32 was put back into production but work was being done to upgrade it completely... with all the upgrades and new technology they have applied to their other engines like the PD series (PD14 etc).

    The NK-32 will be upgraded to create the 35-50 ton thrust PD-35 which will be used on the new PAK DA, but also on a new large transport aircraft family including a replacement for the engine currently on the An-124... I suspect one with AB will be used on the Tu-160M2.

    I hope it can also be adapted to upgrade the Tu-22M3M too.


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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  Cyberspec on Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:21 am

    Regarding the civilian version of the Tu-160, there's an bmpd article about it (quoting Kommersant) below

    Arrow https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3065109.html

    According to Rogozin there's an interest for such an aircraft in the business jet category from super wealthy individuals (mostly Arab Sheiks) so we might see it being developed. But so many changes would be required that it probably won't look much like a Tu-160....they're talking about a new wing, removal of the bomb bay etc....it's estimated price is 140 - 150 million Euros per plane

    Some are even proposing making a bizz jet out of the Su-34 which they say would be much more affordable
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  d_taddei2 on Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:30 am

    More on the civvie version

    http://tass.com/defense/986944
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:46 pm

    '
    Sounds a bit silly but hey, if sheiks want to pay for it then what the hell..

    mnztr

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  mnztr on Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:11 am

    Can such a beast possibly meet noise and emissions regs anywhere in the known world? I have never has the privilege to see the TU-160 in full afterburner glory but even when I see videos I feel the need to protect my ears.

    PapaDragon wrote:'
    Sounds a bit silly but hey, if sheiks want to pay for it then what the hell..
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  JohninMK on Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:18 am

    This is the proposed colour scheme Smile

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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:02 am

    Aeroflot cargo deliver... express packages delivered within the hour, daily to major US cities... Twisted Evil
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    GarryB

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:55 am

    Can such a beast possibly meet noise and emissions regs anywhere in the known world? I have never has the privilege to see the TU-160 in full afterburner glory but even when I see videos I feel the need to protect my ears.

    You see lots of photos of the Tu-22M3 in full AB on takeoff with a lovely blue glow and you suspect the very similar engines of the Blackjack would look the same, but in fact the AB on the Blackjack looks white...


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    mnztr

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  mnztr on Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:10 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Can such a beast possibly meet noise and emissions regs anywhere in the known world? I have never has the privilege to see the TU-160 in full afterburner glory but even when I see videos I feel the need to protect my ears.

    You see lots of photos of the Tu-22M3 in full AB on takeoff with a lovely blue glow and you suspect the very similar engines of the Blackjack would look the same, but in fact the AB on the Blackjack looks white...

    They both look magnificent, of course the Mig-25 with ABs is still my fave, but they have to be incredibly noisy. If a tiny F-16 with AB is loud, those 4x NKs must be deafening!!
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    Isos

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  Isos on Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:43 pm

    What's the point of making it a buisness jet ? It's supersonic only with afterburners so its range will be lower if used all the way.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:00 pm

    Isos wrote:What's the point of making it a buisness jet ? It's supersonic only with afterburners so its range will be lower if used all the way.

    Ask the sheiks

    Although I doubt anything will become of it, too whacky

    Still, Aeroflot having one of those like on the pic would result in massive amount of brag rights Very Happy

    mnztr

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  mnztr on Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:51 pm

    Isos wrote:What's the point of making it a buisness jet ? It's supersonic only with afterburners so its range will be lower if used all the way.

    Are you 100% sure about that? Also does it need FULL afterburner? with its massive range it can probably still have useful range at supersonic speed. Concorde used about 4800 gallons per hour in cruise
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    George1

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  George1 on Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:11 am

    First Tu-160M2 takes flight, production contract for ten aircraft signed

    The first Tu-160M2 aircraft (serial number 08-04, Pyotr Deynekin) was demonstrated publicly during president's visit to the Gorbunov Aviation Plant in Kazan. The aircraft reportedly conducted its maiden flight in late December 2017. Also during the visit the ministry of defense and PAO Tupolev signed a contract to build ten Tu-160M2 aircraft. The cost of the ten-year contract is said to be 160 billion rubles (about $3 billion).

    It is not clear if Pyotr Deynekin is included in the initial order of ten planes. It appears to have been assembled from an unfinished plane left over from the Soviet days. However, it may be considered Tu-160M2 if it is eventually equipped with new avionics. It seems that the Tu-160M2 project is largely a plan to re-start the production of Tu-160 bombers "from scratch."

    UPDATE: Things may be a bit more complicated - Pyotr Deynekin is a Tu-160M, not M2 (h/t DS). Which seems reasonable - it is very much an old Tu-160 design. It gets an "M" when it gets some new avionics. The contract signed in Kazan also appears to cover the construction of Tu-160M, but at some point after 2020 these planes will be converted to Tu-160M2 (and presumably new ones would be built as M2). Other sources say that Tu-160M is a "deep modernization" of Tu-160, which means that these are not new planes. This would mean that the contract would cover only modernization and not a new construction. In this case, production of Tu-160M2 would be covered by a different contract.

    http://russianforces.org/blog/2018/01/first_tu-160m2_takes_flight_pr.shtml


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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  d_taddei2 on Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:30 am

    There has been recent calls for a concorde type plane to come back so I don't see why not. If you consider that Russia already has a working aircraft conversion to civilian airline wouldn't take long. On the other hand any aircraft manufacturer now would have to design a plane from scratch and would take years and years before ready they could save time and money by buying Russian tu-160 airliner the only real obstacle is politics. I actually think it would be a success but only a handful would be built. And rich chinese businessmen could fly from China to Moscow very fast. Might even find a presidential aircraft design am sure Putin would love it.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:28 am

    With its wings swept back it is rather low drag so while it might use ABs to break the speed of sound it can likely cruise supersonically in dry thrust so its range would be rather good anyway.

    With the new engines being developed and a redesign with new materials I would suspect the new aircraft to be both lighter and with more engine power, so higher speed flight should be possible.

    Note the original Tu-144 burned a lot of fuel because it needed full AB all through the flight, but the last model Tu-144 had the same NK-32 engines of the Tu-160 and it did not need AB to maintain supersonic flight.


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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:16 am

    I'm sure, if SSJ variant is built, 1-2 will be reserved for Air Force 1/VIP duty, just in case! Russia orders first 10 Tu-160M2 bombers
    http://www.janes.com/article/77448/russia-orders-first-10-tu-160m2-bombers

    I think most, if not all of those will all be brand new, not modernized from Tu-160Ms. The modernization is a different contract; it'll put some of them off the line & increase wear & tear on those staying on active duty. Plus, some Tu-160Ms will be needed for NAF &/ other specialized variants before new 1s r built for those missions.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:44 am

    The two rebuilds will likely be used for testing, and the first ten built from scratch will likely incorporate changes needed or wanted to improve the design.

    If they can finish the last two then they can build from scratch so the first ten can be built no problem.

    The question is, will they change the design... will it have the under nose optical system?

    Will there be any other changes in design?

    Will it have the same hooded flaps over the air intake like the Su-57?


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    AMCXXL

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  AMCXXL on Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:19 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:I'm sure, if SSJ variant is built, 1-2 will be reserved for Air Force 1/VIP duty, just in case! Russia orders first 10 Tu-160M2 bombers
    http://www.janes.com/article/77448/russia-orders-first-10-tu-160m2-bombers

    I think most, if not all of those will all be brand new, not modernized from Tu-160Ms. The modernization is a different contract; it'll put some of them off the line & increase wear & tear on those staying on active duty. Plus, some Tu-160Ms will be needed for NAF &/ other specialized variants before new 1s r built for those missions.

    The existing 16 Tu-160 will be modernized to Tu-160M(1)
    The contract is for 10 new built Tu-160M2, included a couple with a stored airframe that probably are for test and instruction, and other 8 for a new squadron
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  d_taddei2 on Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:38 am

    So that's $270mn per aircraft I would imagine will come down once full scale production comes into force. But it's still cheaper than if any western nation wanted to produce such aircraft. In fact the Usa lancer B1B was rumoured to cost $280mn per aircraft in the 90's and put the cost much higher if one were to be built today and the lancer is nothing compared to the Tu-160M2
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:50 am

    GarryB wrote:With its wings swept back it is rather low drag so while it might use ABs to break the speed of sound it can likely cruise supersonically in dry thrust so its range would be rather good anyway.

    With the new engines being developed and a redesign with new materials I would suspect the new aircraft to be both lighter and with more engine power, so higher speed flight should be possible.

    Note the original Tu-144 burned a lot of fuel because it needed full AB all through the flight, but the last model Tu-144 had the same NK-32 engines of the Tu-160 and it did not need AB to maintain supersonic flight.

    The madness behind Tu-160 in civil version can be explained then big Russian companies like Rosatom, Rosneft or Gazprom can use it as corpo jest. If they would carry missile inside and land in Cuba or Venezuela it is different story.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:59 pm

    The shit Russia gets from the west you would think that is exactly what they would do... so in a way I would like to see them start acting the way the west claims they are... if you are doing the time you might as well do the crime.


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    mnztr

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    crazy orange/golden exhaust of the TU-160

    Post  mnztr on Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:46 am

    crazy orange/golden exhaust of the TU-160

    Anyone know why this is? I read somewhere there is a nitrogen rich additive added at full power to extend engine life. Anyone know what this is?
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    Cheetah

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  Cheetah on Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:08 pm

    That is correct.



    Specifically, go to 16:54

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