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    Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:02 pm

    Militarov wrote: And this is how i see you never served.

    Shoigu never did  too Razz  Razz  Razz


    Militarov wrote:
    Military, everything looks though bang for the money, from the food to fuel consumption especially when your money is limited.

    And this is secret knowledge of former military?! cough cough  affraid  affraid  affraid


    Militarov wrote:
    There is reason why we dont have 200 Tu-160 split between conventional and cruise carriers and no Su-34s and Tu-22Ms, because, duh, Tu-160s can carry more and fly longer. And you should go back and read again where i said "part of the roles", they will be split, as there wont have anything in between in weight or performance class, and thats what will happen, Brahmos, no Brahmos, KH-32 or no KH-32.


    That's  why Tu-22 were modified and Kh-32 deeply modernized to be fulfill its tasks till PK DA/ Zircons become operational I presume.





    That is an artistic vision or Brahmos kind of attack. This is be,low something like  Kh-32. But with different that ceiling is 40,000m and speed is about 5,400 km/h... none if other existing missiles ca od the trick on 1000km range.







    Militarov wrote:
    Where i said that Brahmos is in Russian service? And who says it wont be? I clearly said "Brahmos variant", after all its based on Russian designs its all natural that it will enter service eventually on Su-30 and its variants.

    Furthermore: http://www.airrecognition.com/index.php/archive-world-worldwide-news-air-force-aviation-aerospace-air-military-defence-industry/global-defense-security-news/global-news-2016/september/2912-russian-air-force-shows-interest-for-air-launched-variant-of-the-brahmos-missile.html

    and this interest keeps being interesting for last 2 years without progress right?


    Militarov wrote:
    Flying to Syria is not tactical bombing, its air interdiction mission as it strikes mostly targets that are of high strategic value but are in not direct contact with friendly forces.

    Yup, and I am sure Su-34 with 3,000kgs of bombs could not do it locally.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  GarryB on Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:49 pm

    That chart showing the details of the missiles is wrong.

    The Kh-32 has a speed of mach 4.5 at high altitude, not 3.

    Also the Brahmos is a Yakhont with improved electronics.

    Any improvement the Indians and Russians worked on together to create the Brahmos could easily be applied to the superior Onyx which has no range limit or warhead size limit, so I would assume the new build Onyx missiles will be built for the Russian navy with the electronic and software upgrades applied to Brahmos.

    Zircon likely also already has such improvements too.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:23 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Agreed, but 2 B-1s can be used for 1 Tu-160M. But besides them & the B-52s, the USN has the advantage in surface & subsurface naval asset #s to launch Ash/LACMs, so it's not "the end of the world" as far as the USAF is concerned!
    Doesn't really work that way... The introduction of cruise missiles to the B-1B has made it safer in terms of standoff use but it is not a strategic bomber any more than the Tu-22M3 could be....
    Well, the US Joint Forces Command gave 2 B-1Bs to STRATCOM which then sent them from CONUS to bomb Libya: http://www.airforcemag.com/MagazineArchive/Pages/2011/July%202011/0711libya.aspx
    So, IMO, tactical B-1Bs & Tu-22M3s (once given IRPs, if the treaty is tossed) can be pressed to do strategic-like missions. Another trick is to fly at slower speeds to save fuel, &/ increasing the # of bombers carrying less armament but more fuel to extend their range.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:41 am

    GarryB wrote:That chart showing the details of the missiles is wrong.

    The Kh-32 has a speed of mach 4.5 at high altitude, not 3.

    Apologies I did not write where is speed.

    Размах крыла - wingspan
    Mаксимальная скорость на траектории  - max flight speed on trajectory


    Table says: 5400 km/h which on 40,000m is actually slightly more than  5Ma ... Tu-22 can carry 3 of them.  I wonder how many of them is required to destroy AC group.


    GarryB wrote:
    Also the Brahmos is a Yakhont with improved electronics.

    Zircon likely also already has such improvements too.

    Unlikely that Brahmos is more advanced bot software and HW from Onyx.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  GarryB on Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:38 am


    Unlikely that Brahmos is more advanced bot software and HW from Onyx.

    Yakhont is a down graded missile designed for export that is based on the Onyx.

    Brahmos is an upgrade of that downgraded for export missile.

    Onyx and Yakhont were anti ship only and so the software and sensors and equipment were designed for anti ship use.


    The role of Brahmos expanded that to include land attack capability, so the brahmos would have had that feature over the Onyx too.

    It seems all of the Russian heavy missiles including Granit and Vulkan and Onyx now have land attack capability and I suspect that was directly from the adaptation of Brahmos developed software and hardware upgrades that were likely applied to Russian domestic missiles.
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  d_taddei2 on Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:19 pm

    Nuclear-capable Russian Tu-95 bombers in 1st-ever Pacific patrol from Indonesia

    https://www.rt.com/news/412367-russian-strategic-bombers-indonesia/
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    George1

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  George1 on Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:27 pm

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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:10 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    Unlikely that Brahmos is more advanced bot software and HW from Onyx.

    Yakhont is a down graded missile designed for export that is based on the Onyx.

    Brahmos is an upgrade of that downgraded for export missile.
    .

    still lacking range (290 vs 600 km)


    .

    Onyx and Yakhont were anti ship only and so the software and sensors and equipment were designed for anti ship use.

    .

    nope, in Syria they attacked land targets


    The role of Brahmos expanded that to include land attack capability, so the brahmos would have had that feature over the Onyx too.

    It seems all of the Russian heavy missiles including Granit and Vulkan and Onyx now have land attack capability and I suspect that was directly from the adaptation of Brahmos developed software and hardware upgrades that were likely applied to Russian domestic missiles.

    Unlikely, like Russians did not develop land attack ability on their own before? Indians are doing software export so massive because they are cost effective and there is enormous human capital there (9 x times of Russia population) . Not because they are superior to other nations. Inferior neither, they are in pair.

    BTW Kh-35 seems to have land attack capability now too.

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    GarryB

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  GarryB on Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:07 am

    still lacking range (290 vs 600 km)

    Sorry, I wasn't clear.... the Brahmos is a greatly improved model of a downgraded export model Soviet missile.

    The Russians wont adopt the Brahmos for their own service because of the limitations in warhead weight and flight range for Brahmos that don't apply to the missiles they make for their own air force.

    Very simply they will take all the upgrades developed for Yakhont to make it into a brahmos missile and apply those changes to Onyx, so they will get the more sophisticated guidance and other improved features but also longer range and heavier warhead.

    nope, in Syria they attacked land targets

    You misunderstand... Soviet anti ship missiles had little or no land attack capability by design.

    Since designing the Brahmos together with India they have since developed hardware and software for their missiles to allow them to be effective against land targets.... remember now they have an operational GLONASS system.... something they didn't have in the 80s and half the 90s.

    They have also use Granit against land targets too.

    Unlikely, like Russians did not develop land attack ability on their own before?

    They didn't have a dedicated land attack capability or requirement before.

    The old Sandbox in its domestic version had radar and IR sensors and in the export model with IR sensors I believe the Indian military used them to successfully attack large oil tanks in the evening as they had been heated by the days sun, so they were still hot in the early evening when the land around them cooled rather faster so the tanks became a huge IR target.

    If it had been a large building out in the middle of the desert they might have been able to target it with radar, or a big bridge.

    They developed land attack capability for their nuclear cruise missiles and then with India too on the Brahmos and then added that capability to their anti ship missiles to make them fully multi purpose weapons.

    Notice most things they are making are multi use too.... it has become a theme for the Russian navy.

    Indians are doing software export so massive because they are cost effective and there is enormous human capital there (9 x times of Russia population) . Not because they are superior to other nations. Inferior neither, they are in pair.

    I dislike it when people say this country or that country is good at something... they say the best chefs are French but I really don't like French food,and that does not mean all french people are good cooks or that a person from a different country is not better... say the US or Italy or whereever.

    There are a lot of good Indian programmers, but I doubt the software for the Kh-101 and Kh-102 were based on software from Brahmos... and likely neither would have been as effective without GLONASS in place and operating and ring laser gyro technology being perfected and a thousand other things.

    The Russian Navy clearly wants multirole ships with multirole weapons.... it is not the first.... the SS-N-14 had a torpedo designed to hunt subs but the rocket propelled carrier for it had IR and radar sensors so it could be used against ships or subs...

    It meant that while the Udaloy was an anti sub ship it could also take on enemy surface ships too if it needed to.
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    George1

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  George1 on Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:48 pm

    First test flight of upgraded Tu-160M2 bomber scheduled for January, says deputy PM

    The Russian Defense Ministry reported earlier that the serial production of Tu-160M2 bombers should begin in 2023

    MOSCOW, January 5. /TASS/. Russia’s upgraded Tupolev Tu-160M2 strategic bomber will perform its first test flight in January 2018, ahead of scheduled February, Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said on Friday.

    "The Tupolev Design Bureau actually promises to take the plane into the air earlier - at the end of January," the deputy prime minister wrote on his Facebook page.

    At a working meeting with President Vladimir Putin in November, Rogozin said the maiden flight of the strategic bomber was planned for February.

    The Russian Defense Ministry reported earlier that the serial production of Tu-160M2 bombers should begin in 2023. The Russian Aerospace Force intends to purchase no less than 50 such aircraft.

    The Tu-160 is the Soviet strategic missile carrier armed with cruise missiles that can carry nuclear warheads. Along with the Tu-95MS missile carrier, the Tu-160 makes part of Russia’s strategic nuclear forces along with the ground-based missile systems and submarines.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/984082
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:55 am


    New Tu-160M  ''Petr Deinekin'' completed first flight (ahead of schedule)

    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/103163/

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    George1

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  George1 on Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:08 pm

    The new Tu-160 began flight tests

    According to our blog, in the last days of 2017 in Kazan made the first flight completed by construction at the Kazan Aviation Plant named after PS. Gorbunova PJSC "Tupolev" for VCS of Russia strategic bomber Tu-160 with serial number 08-04 (own name "Peter Deinekin"). The plane was completed from the Soviet reserve and pumped out on November 16, 2017.



    On January 24, 2018, the TASS agency confirmed the start of the flight tests of the Tu-160 aircraft with serial number 08-04, although with reference to the "source in the Russian defense industry complex" claiming that the aircraft "took off for the first time last week."

    Also, the TASS scribe said that the new aircraft is not an experimental model of the modernized version of the bomber. "Only a small modernization was carried out on the plane, the glider and engines remained the same.Fully digitized documentation for the new missile carrier will be released not earlier than the middle of this year, and without it, the construction of the Tu-160M ​​is impossible."

    On the bmpd side, we point out that the new Tu-160 with serial number 08-04 became the 35th copy of the Tu-160 (including flight prototypes), built in 1981.

    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4902193

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3063777.html
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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:45 pm


    New one



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    George1

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  George1 on Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:49 pm

    I knew that there were about 16 Tu-160 in service with russian air force. And a dozen stationed in Ukraine that were destroyed. So there are some airframes in resreve from soviet era? and how many of them?
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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:54 pm

    George1 wrote:I knew that there were about 16 Tu-160 in service with russian air force. And a dozen stationed in Ukraine that were destroyed. So there are some airframes in resreve from soviet era? and how many of them?

    There should have been 4 unfinished frames left, this one is built from one of those so 3 more remaining

    After that they will be making them from scratch

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    George1

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  George1 on Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:06 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    George1 wrote:I knew that there were about 16 Tu-160 in service with russian air force. And a dozen stationed in Ukraine that were destroyed. So there are some airframes in resreve from soviet era? and how many of them?

    There should have been 4 unfinished frames left, this one is built from one of those so 3 more remaining

    After that they will be making them from scratch


    Νιce, so the first four will be completed quite soon i guess
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    franco

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  franco on Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:42 am

    First order for Tu-160M2 apparently placed.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3065544.html
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    franco

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  franco on Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:43 am

    George1 wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    George1 wrote:I knew that there were about 16 Tu-160 in service with russian air force. And a dozen stationed in Ukraine that were destroyed. So there are some airframes in resreve from soviet era? and how many of them?

    There should have been 4 unfinished frames left, this one is built from one of those so 3 more remaining

    After that they will be making them from scratch


    Νιce, so the first four will be completed quite soon i guess

    I read somewhere that only 2 frames were usable but who knows for sure.

    Project Canada

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  Project Canada on Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:33 am

    im wondering if there is any visual differences between the old and new ones? maybe a slightly longer fuselage? some changes on the wings etc??
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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:14 am

    Project Canada wrote:im wondering if there is any visual differences between the old and new ones? maybe a slightly longer fuselage? some changes on the wings etc??

    None whatsoever

    Interior components on the other hand are completely different
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:20 am

    They are looking at a civillians version of this bomber. Probably to keep production lines going after the completion of these bombers.

    Would be interesting and cool to see a supersonic jet make a second attempt at the civil airline industry. Would make my flights to Asia much better.

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  kopyo-21 on Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:12 am

    Do new Tu-160Ms extend the bomb bay and revise the rotated launchers for longer missiles like Kh-101/102?

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  mnztr on Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:16 am

    Do they have the revised engines in production yet? I heard they plan to order 10 for the first batch and produce 50 in total.
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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:18 am

    Yeah, last I heard the NK engines are ready for production.
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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:26 am


    There should have been 4 unfinished frames left, this one is built from one of those so 3 more remaining

    After that they will be making them from scratch

    No.

    There were four left after production stopped but they completed two of those in the late 1990s. The two remaining were not built because the ability to work on large titanium structures was lost as the forge was in the Ukraine.

    The two remaining aircraft have now been completed and are the new Tu-160Ms being shown as new models, so they will likely look very similar to the old models.

    New aircraft produced now will be from scratch builds so may have more changes made in the design.

    Do new Tu-160Ms extend the bomb bay and revise the rotated launchers for longer missiles like Kh-101/102?

    The two original bomb bays of the Tu-160 were huge already... something like 9 metres long each so there is no need to make them longer for the Kh-101/102.

    Do they have the revised engines in production yet? I heard they plan to order 10 for the first batch and produce 50 in total.

    AFAIK the NK-32 was put back into production but work was being done to upgrade it completely... with all the upgrades and new technology they have applied to their other engines like the PD series (PD14 etc).

    The NK-32 will be upgraded to create the 35-50 ton thrust PD-35 which will be used on the new PAK DA, but also on a new large transport aircraft family including a replacement for the engine currently on the An-124... I suspect one with AB will be used on the Tu-160M2.

    I hope it can also be adapted to upgrade the Tu-22M3M too.

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

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