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    Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

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    eehnie

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  eehnie on Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:09 am

    GarryB wrote:
    I do not live in the EU, that to start with

    Check the wind direction... you will be assimilated soon enough... their values will become your values....

    I live in the EU, and the values of Militarov are not the values of the EU. Are more like the values of "wannabe best US friend".

    wilhelm

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  wilhelm on Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:53 pm

    Too much idle chit chat here.
    The roll out of the Tu-160M, or partial M i guess, in Kazan, prototype for the new production, apparently from one of the last unfinished airframes previously built 25 years ago. Slated to fly in February of 2018.

    Article below.
    https://kazanfirst.ru/articles/452526


    Last edited by wilhelm on Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  TheArmenian on Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:05 pm

    A truly UUUURRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA moment

    They tried to kill the white swan



    Now the Phoenix has risen from the ashes.

    A better resolution video:
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:42 pm


    I know they started with partially built airframe but this is still not a bad time at all. They said that one of the objectives was for new guy to learn how to build these planes becasue old ones are mostly retired by now. Not bad.







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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:41 pm

    KiloGolf wrote: Easy there, Note the word, "planned".
    It's a Russian military project, I'd expect some kind of delay. With creative excuses of course. lol1

    so where is KG is you need him ? Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  Cyberspec on Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:16 pm

    the plane isn't even painted yet....way too slow tongue
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:42 am

    Perhaps once the M2s start getting inducted, some of the older Tu-160s will be transferred to the Naval Aviation to replace/augment Tu-95s/142s.


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:26 pm; edited 3 times in total
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    Arctic_Fox

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  Arctic_Fox on Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:29 am

    This means that they gave up on PAK DA?
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:38 am

    Arctic_Fox wrote:This means that they gave up on PAK DA?

    No just pushed back for later

    They still need replacement for Tu-22 that won't cost as much as Tu-160
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  KiloGolf on Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:20 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote: Easy there, Note the word, "planned".
    It's a Russian military project, I'd expect some kind of delay. With creative excuses of course. lol1

    so where is  KG is you need him ? Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

    front row with my popcorn, like old times with Ivan Gren class and Yasen class launch. Twisted Evil
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:30 pm

    More details:
    http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/16175/russia-rolls-out-new-tu-160m2-but-are-moscows-bomber-ambitions-realistic
    "..Tupolev, in addressing two main tasks – the deep modernization of the Tu-160, and the development of the PAK-DA, may have focused on the [Tu-160] bird in hand, while the [PAK-DA] pot of gold at the end of the rainbow can wait," Tuchkov explained. ..
    Ultimately, the military analyst noted that the fact that the Tu-160M2 is being created in parallel with the PAK-DA is to the advantage of both aircraft, allowing the modernized plane to receive advanced technologies, while giving the next generation bomber a head start on development.
    https://sputniknews.com/military/201706221054888100-tu160m2-prospects-analysis/
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:48 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote: Easy there, Note the word, "planned".
    It's a Russian military project, I'd expect some kind of delay. With creative excuses of course. lol1

    so where is  KG is you need him ? Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

    front row with my popcorn, like old times with Ivan Gren class and Yasen class launch. Twisted Evil

    It is no Hollywood where each movie is on the same schema. This is a difference between a landing ship and nuclear deterrence forces' priorities. Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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    eehnie

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  eehnie on Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:30 am

    KiloGolf wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote: Easy there, Note the word, "planned".
    It's a Russian military project, I'd expect some kind of delay. With creative excuses of course. lol1

    so where is  KG is you need him ? Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

    front row with my popcorn, like old times with Ivan Gren class and Yasen class launch. Twisted Evil

    This is all we need to know to see how sincere is his habitual complaining and how much he cares.

    Obviously in the role of fake and dirty drama queen.

    Nothing new.

    Azi

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  Azi on Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:38 am

    Arctic_Fox wrote:This means that they gave up on PAK DA?
    The work on Tu-160M2 doesn't mean that PAK-DA is dead. The contrary! If you hear nothing the project lives Wink They said they will reveal the design in 2018.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:34 am

    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4730201

    Source: PAK DA will be cheaper than the Tu-160, but you can replace all long range aircraft
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    GarryB

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  GarryB on Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:06 am

    This means that they gave up on PAK DA?

    No.

    The PAK DA needs to be developed from scratch, which will take some time. In the mean time they have upgraded their production facilities to handle construction of very large titanium structures needed for aircraft like the Tu-160 and the new PAK DA.

    The new tooling and facilities to be used to build new Tu-160M2s will then be used to build PAK DAs to replace the Tu-95s left in service in the strategic role and the Tu-22m3s used in the theatre role.

    This is clearly one of the four airframes left from the cold war period.... one of the second pair they could not make because the factory that could handly such large titanium structures was in the Ukraine.

    Now this aircraft is near completion but presumably with new internals like fibre optics instead of copper wires etc etc.

    I am looking forward to seeing the third Tu-160M2 to see if it has the optics under the nose for bombing...

    It goes without saying that a subsonic flying wing design should have lower operating costs than a supersonic large jet like the blackjack.... it is like comparing a jumbo jet with Concord.
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    George1

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  George1 on Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:59 pm

    This unit is a new built one or old Tu-160 modernized to M2 level?
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    franco

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  franco on Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:21 pm

    George1 wrote:This unit is a new built one or old Tu-160 modernized to M2 level?

    My understanding is it was built using an unfinished frame from the Tu-160 production. Don't believe it has the new engines yet but will be used as a test platform for the new technology.
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    Isos

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  Isos on Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:42 pm

    franco wrote:
    George1 wrote:This unit is a new built one or old Tu-160 modernized to M2 level?

    My understanding is it was built using an unfinished frame from the Tu-160 production. Don't believe it has the new engines yet but will be used as a test platform for the new technology.

    Is it more stealthy ? Do they us RAM on it or they use the same materials than before ?
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    franco

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  franco on Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:56 pm

    Not sure however one of our techies may know.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:12 pm

    franco wrote:Not sure however one of our techies may know.  

    First of all avionics, both for bombing, navigation, signalling and net-centric warfare, EW. I would also add anti missile systems (lasers for blinding optical sensors or microwaves to burning missile electronics) . Engines and hudrulics too. In short  air frame looka remains as air flow didn't change. T?he rest can be the subject of change/upgrade
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    eehnie

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  eehnie on Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:23 pm

    Isos wrote:
    franco wrote:
    George1 wrote:This unit is a new built one or old Tu-160 modernized to M2 level?

    My understanding is it was built using an unfinished frame from the Tu-160 production. Don't believe it has the new engines yet but will be used as a test platform for the new technology.

    Is it more stealthy ? Do they us RAM on it or they use the same materials than before ?

    Some small external dimmensional change is possible, also it is possible some surface treatment, but change in external materials is more difficult and is unlikely in my opinion.
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    Isos

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  Isos on Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:23 pm

    eehnie wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    franco wrote:
    George1 wrote:This unit is a new built one or old Tu-160 modernized to M2 level?

    My understanding is it was built using an unfinished frame from the Tu-160 production. Don't believe it has the new engines yet but will be used as a test platform for the new technology.

    Is it more stealthy ? Do they us RAM on it or they use the same materials than before ?

    Some small external dimmensional change is possible, also it is possible some surface treatment, but change in external materials is more difficult and is unlikely in my opinion.

    Why unlikly ? Material science has evolved a lot since its design. I'm pretty sure they have some composite materials stronger, lighter and more stealthy to use today.

    If they plan to build new ones, better make them with better technology in every field.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:57 pm

    They may not even need so many expensive TU-160M2s (each can carry just "12× Raduga Kh-55SM/101/102/555 cruise missiles (primary armament) or 24× AS-16 Kickback short-range nuclear CMs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-160#Specifications_.28Tu-160.29"): a few modified IL-76s/96 or AN-22s/124s each could also carry 3-4 dozen ALCMs & be refueled by IL-78s while escorted by MiG-31s/SU-30s/35s.
    OTH, I'm surprised that China didn't buy the 1 TU-160 that is now in a Ukrainian museum for their own strategic bomber program!
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    GarryB

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  GarryB on Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:31 am

    Yeah, people talk about using transports or civilian types for the job but it never actually happens...

    Who wants to make all their civil aircraft targets for the enemy?



    They hadn't completed two of the old aircraft... they did not have their main centre box sections made of titanium that held the mechanism for the swing wings... and who knows what other components they didn't have.

    they have described this as being the first of the new Tu-160M2 designs so we can assume it has all new avionics and systems, but it uses an old shell.

    For instance under the nose you can clearly see the old optical port... if it is going to be a cruise missile carrier only then it wont need such a feature.

    It probably wasn't worth removing from the two old airframes but may not appear on the new build models, and I would suspect there is plenty of scope for rather more changes including materials and shape.... technology has moved on since the 1970s and new things are possible.

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