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    Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

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    GarryB
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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:27 am

    I am skeptical too.

    If they can't afford to upgrade more than 10 Tu-160s in the next 8 years, then how can they afford to build from scratch 10 new aircraft, which had many important components built in the Ukraine in factories now likely bankrupt and collapsing?

    I would think it would be more efficient to use that money to upgrade all their Tu-160s... though perhaps this announcement means they already have 6 upgraded Tu-160s and are upgrading all the rest by 2020.

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  Russian Patriot on Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:33 am

    Russia to Upgrade Over 10 Tu-160 Bombers by 2020

    RIA Novosti

    19:42 07/02/2012 MOSCOW, February 7 (RIA Novosti) - The Russian Air Force will receive more than 10 modernized Tu-160 Blackjack strategic bombers by 2020, the Defense Ministry said on Tuesday.

    According to official data, Russia has at least 16 Tu-160 aircraft in service. There are plans to increase their number to 30.

    “The Tu-160 in service with the Air Force are already undergoing modernization,” Air Force spokesman Col. Vladimir Drik said. “We are planning to receive more than 10 aircraft of this type.”

    The Tu-160 is a supersonic, variable-geometry heavy bomber, designed to strike strategic targets with nuclear and conventional weapons deep in continental theaters of operation.

    The modernized version, Tu-160M, features new weaponry, improved electronics and avionics, which double its combat effectivness.

    The upgraded aircraft will remain in service until a fifth-generation strategic bomber is developed, the Air Force officials earlier said.

    Russia will also modernize about 30 Tu-22M3 Backfire-C strategic bombers to a Tu-22M3M variant by 2020.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2012/russia-120207-rianovosti03.htm

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  GarryB on Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:46 am

    I think they might be confusing upgrades with new aircraft... they certainly had plans for 30 as that would be a more useful number of aircraft, but the cost of restarting production... just to make a dozen more aircraft would be incredibly expensive.

    I would think they have probably already upgraded 6 Blackjacks and the ten they talk about upgrading by 2020 will be the remaining 10 un-upgraded aircraft. At just over one upgrade per year they should be able to manage getting the whole fleet with the same upgrade by 2020. The original aircraft often introduced new features as they became available so each aircraft was different. This upgrade will make them the same.

    I would suspect that by 2018-2020 they will have a flying prototype of the PAK DA and then they will be able to start testing various things like conformal radar arrays built into the aircrafts skin, and of course new generation engines in the Blackjack both to test and to improve the performance of the existing platforms.

    By about 2024 or so they can start making PAK DAs to replace the Blackjacks and Bears.

    I rather suspect a smaller non strategic model might be worth developing for the threatre bombing role and interceptor role to replace both the Tu-22M3M and the Mig-31BM.

    A separate model would be needed so they don't count towards START treaty assets.

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  George1 on Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:29 pm

    Tu-160 with Kh-55SM


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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  George1 on Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:31 am

    Modernization of Tu-95MS bombers

    According to Russian press reports, the MInistry of Defense begins a modernization program that will equip Tu-95MS bombers with new avionics and allow the aircraft to remain in service until 2020-2025 and probably longer - until 2035. Izvestia quotes a source in the Russian Air Forces Main Staff as saying that the upgrade will allow the Tu-95MS bombers to carry the new Kh-101 long-range cruise missile.

    In the last START data exchange that took place in 2009, Russia declared 63 deployed Tu-95MS bombers. According to the report, only 32 of them remain operational today and "about 60 aircraft" are in storage.

    http://russianforces.org/blog/2012/09/modernization_of_tu-95ms_bombe.shtml

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  GarryB on Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:31 pm

    Interesting.

    The Tu-95SM16 could carry ten cruise missiles under four wing pylons and 6 more missiles on a 6 round internal rotary launcher.

    The new Kh-101 and Kh-102 missiles are much larger than the old Kh-55 and Kh-555s. (The Kh-102 and Kh-55 are nuclear armed and the Kh-101 and the Kh-555 are conventionally armed and share the same guidance/navigation systems).

    The Kh-101/102 are too big to carry internally on the Bear so it is limited to carrying 10 of these missiles externally. Of course it could still carry 6 smaller missiles internally.

    Note the Blackjacks two weapon bays are enormous and can carry any of those missiles internally.

    Nice confirmation that the Kh-101 and Kh-102 are entering service... I assumed it happened a while ago.

    With upgrades the three Tupolev bombers should become rather capable bombers, whereas previously the two strategic bombers were actually cruise missile carriers with little effective bombing capability.

    The upgrades are supposed to add a range of guided weapon types including satellite guided bombs.

    The upgraded aircraft will be called Tu-160M, Tu-95SM16M, and Tu-22M3M.


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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  George1 on Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:22 pm

    GarryB wrote:Interesting.

    The Tu-95SM16 could carry ten cruise missiles under four wing pylons and 6 more missiles on a 6 round internal rotary launcher.

    Α fully armed Tu-95 will have considerably smaller range. The typical load is 6 missiles in internal rotary launcher.

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  GarryB on Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:33 am

    For a supersonic bomber the extra drag would be a huge penalty, but for a subsonic bomber the effect on range is a lot less than you might think.

    The new missiles are actually much bigger and heavier than the older missiles, but are very aerodynamic and when mounted under wing pylons don't increase drag by a huge amount... they will fly a little slower for a little longer, but the reduction in range is not enormous, while the missile flight range is almost doubled...


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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  Cyberspec on Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:40 am

    Interesting news.

    I read recently that the Backfires can't carry the new X-101/102 missiles, but apparently they can carry the X-555

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  TR1 on Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:41 am

    Never seen the Tu-22M carry subsonic cruise missiles, just Kh-22/21 and Kh-15.

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  GarryB on Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:30 am

    I must say I have only ever seen Backfires with Kh-15, Kh-22M, and dumb bombs on multiple ejector racks.

    With its new upgrade however it should be able to carry a range of new weapon options including guided bombs and new missiles.

    The internal weapons bay is too small for any cruise missiles including Kh-55 or Kh-555... it is only big enough for Kh-15 or similar sized bomb (FAB-1,500 or so).

    I have seen drawings of twin cruise missile loads on four external hard points, and in terms of weight that should be a possible loadout, but of course there is a world of difference between could and does.

    I remember a picture from Carlos Kopp that showed the comparison between the F-111 and a Tu-22M3, which basically showed two F-111s with inflight refuelling with 8 cruise missiles as a payload over a 2,000km flight radius, with a single Tu-22M3 with 8 cruise missiles and no inflight refuelling with similar flight performance.



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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  TR1 on Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:36 am

    I suspect the Tu-22M had longer supersonic sustainability, no?

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  Cyberspec on Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:45 am

    GarryB wrote:I must say I have only ever seen Backfires with Kh-15, Kh-22M, and dumb bombs on multiple ejector racks.

    It might be able to carry a couple of larger missiles externally OR the reported X-555 was a misprint and they meant X-15's

    Правда, Х-101 все же получилась тяжелее Х-555 примерно в три-четыре раза. Поэтому нести ее могут только стратегические ракетоносцы Ту-160 и Ту-95. Бомбардировщик Ту-22 ее не поднимет. Вот поэтому «Бэкфайр» пока останется со старыми Х-555, — пояснил собеседник «Известий».

    http://izvestia.ru/news/535063

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  TR1 on Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:19 am

    Izvestia strikes again!
    I wonder what source would refer to the Tu-22 as Backfire?
    Never seen Tu-22M carry Kh-55/SM, let alone Kh-555.
    Not to mention, Kh-555 is not an old missile as far as the inventory goes.

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  GarryB on Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:36 am

    I rather suspect they mean Kh-555s which will be the new conventional armed cruise missiles to use up the Kh-55 missile bodies.

    The Kh-555 has the same terminal accuracy as the Kh-101 because it uses the same guidance and navigation systems, but the Kh-555 reportedly has a range of 3,500km while the Kh-101 has a range of more than 5,500km.

    The Kh-555 is much lighter than the Kh-101 and is smaller too so it will be compatible with the internal launchers of the Bear.

    The Tu-22M3 could carry up to three Kh-22M missiles which weigh 7 tons each, and the front bomb racks they hung under the engine nacelles could carry 9 x 500kg bombs which means it could carry 4.5 tons too, so I really don't see any practical weight problem with carrying 8 Kh-555s from the wing and engine nacelle weapon pylons, with two on each pylon. Equally it should be able to carry at least 4 Onyks missiles from the same locations.

    The internal bomb bay can carry 6 missiles of the Kh-15 size or about the size of a KAB-1500 type weapon.

    I suspect a normal load would be 4 Kh-555 plus 6 1.5 ton guided bombs in the bomb bay, or 4 Onyx/Brahmos plus up to 6 1.5 ton bombs in the bomb bay, or 2 Kh-32s.

    It is an impressive aircraft that is fairly widely underrated by some.

    AFAIK it can carry 69 FAB-250s which is comparable to the load a B-52 can carry... of course it can carry it only over a shorter range, but it you reinstalled the inflight refuelling capability you can get that back.


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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  George1 on Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:41 am

    GarryB wrote:

    I suspect a normal load would be 4 Kh-555 plus 6 1.5 ton guided bombs in the bomb bay, or 4 Onyx/Brahmos plus up to 6 1.5 ton bombs in the bomb bay, or 2 Kh-32s.


    4 Onyx difficult since it does the job with much more heavier and supersonic Kh-32.

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  TR1 on Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:01 am



    Kh-101.

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  Austin on Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:09 am

    So what is the range of Kh-101 , I though it was 5500-6000 km but Izevesta is quoting at 10000 km.


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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  TR1 on Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:16 am

    Austin wrote:So what is the range of Kh-101 , I though it was 5500-6000 km but Izevesta is quoting at 10000 km.


    Izvestia has gone full retard a while ago.
    We should make Izvestia articles a ban worthy offense Very Happy.

    Kidding, but seriously, they have zero credibility now.

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  Firebird on Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:15 pm

    I was in Britain today. Overhead I heard a huge noise, reminiscent of Concorde. It sounded too deep to be a fighter jet and nothing like an airliner. When it came out of the clouds, I saw something probably 1mile up, going very fast, then turning sharply in an arc. It looked gigantic, with swept back wings,and bright white bodywork and engine trails coming from the position of the Tu-160. My suspicion is that it was just too big to be the US B1 or Russia's Tu-22.

    Is this possible? I assumed that the Tu-160 doesn't fly into Britain, except maybe for big airshows.

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  SOC on Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:00 pm

    Where were you in England? Just a general area would do.

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  Sujoy on Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:26 pm

    I do not visit UK on a regular basis but from the visits that I have made to the UK and based on the discussions that I have had out there , there is a slim possibility that one can spot a Russian bomber in the distant horizon from the county of Yorkshire or from Scotland . That said, they generally fly far from the UK coast .



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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  Firebird on Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:17 pm

    SOC wrote:Where were you in England? Just a general area would do.

    It went across South Wales East to West, then turned South across to the Bristol area.
    Everything about it suggested White Swan to me. Maybe there was some sort of airforces "cultural exchange" trip on today? (Or Britain's radar staff were all on holiday.. lol)

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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  GarryB on Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:59 am

    A B-1B?

    I haven't heard the Russian AF say one of their bombers was missing... Smile

    Actually that would be interesting... the INF treaty bans intermediate range missiles that are land based, whether they are ballistic or cruise missiles.

    The thing is that an intermediate range weapon is defined in the treaty as having a flight range of 500km to 5,500km.

    If they did develop a cruise missile with a flight range of 10,000km then it could be ground based and not limited by the INF treaty...


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    Re: Tu-160 and Tu-95MS ( Blackjack and Bears )

    Post  Austin on Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:00 am

    KH-101/102 on Tu-95MS , its got some interesting shapes even viewed from bottom.

    http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6416/154814723.6/0_7f83c_5a7056df_orig

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