For example will the Lidar class destroyer be larger than the existing destroyers in the Russian Navy because the Lidar will be powered by a nuclear reactor?
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Questions Thread: Russian Navy
jhelb- Posts : 1085
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- Post n°61
Nuclear Propulsion In Ships
Is it necessary to design bigger ships if it is powered by a nuclear reactor?
For example will the Lidar class destroyer be larger than the existing destroyers in the Russian Navy because the Lidar will be powered by a nuclear reactor?
For example will the Lidar class destroyer be larger than the existing destroyers in the Russian Navy because the Lidar will be powered by a nuclear reactor?
Stealthflanker- Posts : 1405
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- Post n°62
Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy
jhelb wrote:Is it necessary to design bigger ships if it is powered by a nuclear reactor?
For example will the Lidar class destroyer be larger than the existing destroyers in the Russian Navy because the Lidar will be powered by a nuclear reactor?
Usually yes, as shielding in nuclear reactor usually take quite amount of space.
jhelb- Posts : 1085
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- Post n°63
Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy
Stealthflanker wrote:Usually yes, as shielding in nuclear reactor usually take quite amount of space.
Thanks Stealthflanker. So basically the only advantage of a nuclear reactor in a destroyer or aircraft carrier is that it helps to cut down on the number of supply ships. Have I got that right?
artjomh- Posts : 150
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- Post n°64
Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy
jhelb wrote:Is it necessary to design bigger ships if it is powered by a nuclear reactor?
Yes. Read this: https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/weapons/RL33946.pdf
Americans did a cost study of nuclear propulsion and concluded that a small surface ship with a nuclear propulsion would only break even (compared to an diesel/gas-powered ships) if oil prices over the lifetime of the ship (30-40 years) average above $210 per barrel, given high operational tempo.
Comparatively, a medium-sized surface combatant would require oil to be above $70 per barrel for nuclear propulsion to be cheaper than oil-based propulsion over the lifetime of the ship.
In that study, "small surface combatants" displaced between 7900 and 11900 tons, while "medium surface combatants" evaluated displaced between 21600 and 37700 tons.
Additionally, the cost premium of a nuclear power plant was assessed to be ~80% for a small ship, but only ~22% for a medium-size ship (at $600-700 million additional cost)
https://seagrant.mit.edu/ESRDC_library/Webster_James_AlternativePropulsionMethods.pdf
slasher- Posts : 196
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- Post n°65
Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy
hi, could anyone help identify this ship?
Taken from http://tass.ru/en/defense/831321
Taken from http://tass.ru/en/defense/831321
artjomh- Posts : 150
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- Post n°66
Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy
slasher wrote:hi, could anyone help identify this ship?
Taken from http://tass.ru/en/defense/831321
Project 537 rescue vessel ALAGEZ
jhelb- Posts : 1085
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- Post n°67
Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy
Is it possible to calculate the Velocity (not acceleration) of the missiles fired by the S-300F? Or for that matter the Velocity of any SAM missile? Thanks.
artjomh- Posts : 150
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- Post n°68
Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy
jhelb wrote:Is it possible to calculate the Velocity (not acceleration) of the missiles fired by the S-300F? Or for that matter the Velocity of any SAM missile? Thanks.
Straight from the horse's mouth (OKB Fakel): Vavg = 900-1000 m/s
http://pvo.guns.ru/book/fakel/new_gen.htm
For 5V55 in particular, Said Aminov gives a Vmax = 2000 m/s, and Said is pretty reliable.
http://pvo.guns.ru/s300p/data_sam.htm
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slasher- Posts : 196
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- Post n°69
Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy
artjomh wrote:slasher wrote:hi, could anyone help identify this ship?
Taken from http://tass.ru/en/defense/831321
Project 537 rescue vessel ALAGEZ
Thanks.
jhelb- Posts : 1085
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- Post n°70
Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy
artjomh wrote:Straight from the horse's mouth (OKB Fakel): Vavg = 900-1000 m/s
http://pvo.guns.ru/book/fakel/new_gen.htm
For 5V55 in particular, Said Aminov gives a Vmax = 2000 m/s, and Said is pretty reliable.
http://pvo.guns.ru/s300p/data_sam.htm
Great find artjomh. My vote.
max steel- Posts : 2930
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- Post n°71
Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy
Sailors sayinvariably subs “sink” the surface force.
Yes, this has been true since the early 60's. Thats why Nuclear Attack Subs operate as long range ASW screen for Carrier Forces. This has helped a lot in preventing enemy subs from approaching. But, only to a limited degree. Ocean water is much more than it seems. temperature differences abound with depth and currents. Sound in water is reflected or deflected by temp erature gradiants.
Long and short in, a Sub measures these temperature differences constantly, and can hide with ease in and under layers. Fresher and saltier water also creates reflection or defelction layers. again, the Sub records these constantly. Leaving plenty of hiding places.
This all makes a Sub able to evade other subs and approach the surface task forces. Exercises repeatedly prove this. And when US Subs exercise, they attempt to mimic what we know about Chinese or Russian capabilites. Their sub does not assume American capabilites and use them to the full, they try to mimic the supposed enemy.
But is it true that with Russian submarines this often can't be done, due to the large operational technical differences ??
It is an axiom in the Submarine fleet and in the Anti Submarine Warfare schools that Subs sink Carriers. Thats just how it is .
Yes, this has been true since the early 60's. Thats why Nuclear Attack Subs operate as long range ASW screen for Carrier Forces. This has helped a lot in preventing enemy subs from approaching. But, only to a limited degree. Ocean water is much more than it seems. temperature differences abound with depth and currents. Sound in water is reflected or deflected by temp erature gradiants.
Long and short in, a Sub measures these temperature differences constantly, and can hide with ease in and under layers. Fresher and saltier water also creates reflection or defelction layers. again, the Sub records these constantly. Leaving plenty of hiding places.
This all makes a Sub able to evade other subs and approach the surface task forces. Exercises repeatedly prove this. And when US Subs exercise, they attempt to mimic what we know about Chinese or Russian capabilites. Their sub does not assume American capabilites and use them to the full, they try to mimic the supposed enemy.
But is it true that with Russian submarines this often can't be done, due to the large operational technical differences ??
It is an axiom in the Submarine fleet and in the Anti Submarine Warfare schools that Subs sink Carriers. Thats just how it is .
chinggis- Posts : 53
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- Post n°72
Anti skid
Anyone know maybe, why SU or Russia do not have on ships deck anti skid surface? What we are see on NATO or US ships.
GarryB- Posts : 38765
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AFAIK all the Kiev class vessels had a heat resistant surface to prevent damage from downward vectored jet engines... AFAIK it was also anti skid.
Regarding the Kuznetsov AFAIK it also has a heat resistant surface.
Their subs all have noise reducing rubber tiles on their exterior... I don't see why they (and the heat resistant tiles) couldn't also have anti skid properties as well.
Of course when covered in 50cm of ice there is no such think as an anti skid surface...
Regarding the Kuznetsov AFAIK it also has a heat resistant surface.
Their subs all have noise reducing rubber tiles on their exterior... I don't see why they (and the heat resistant tiles) couldn't also have anti skid properties as well.
Of course when covered in 50cm of ice there is no such think as an anti skid surface...
KiloGolf- Posts : 2481
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- Post n°74
Project 1174: Ivan Rogov
Why has this class been abandoned by the Russian Navy. I know the 90s and early 00s left all three unused, but surely the remaining to can be brought back to service. It's such a waste to not use something you have. Especially M Moskalenko is quite new, built just in 1990.
and here's a shot taken last summer:
http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=2274791
PS. Syrian express can surely use one of them, if not both.
and here's a shot taken last summer:
http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=2274791
PS. Syrian express can surely use one of them, if not both.
marat- Posts : 352
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- Post n°75
Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy
Russia will have no big LS at least in next 6 years and i would be great to see Rogov on sea again. but i nevere heard that they planed to do so...
Rodion_Romanovic- Posts : 2400
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- Post n°76
Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy
marat wrote:Russia will have no big LS at least in next 6 years and i would be great to see Rogov on sea again. but i nevere heard that they planed to do so...
They are considering it, but it would be quite expensive to upgrade these 2 (comparable with the cost of a new vessel, and they need an available shipyard and a few years...
Apparently Yantar Shipyard could do it, but not before 2018.
there are two articles (in russian) about it, you can use open them with google chrome and use the function to automatically translate them
EDIT: I'm not yet allowed to post links(since I just joined), I'll just quote here a quick extract from the articles
I"m posting here just two small extracts
using google translate for the first article (dated May 27, 2015
and for the second...vpk-news.ru/news/25408 wrote:
"Cases of these ships are in good condition, but to restore their technical readiness, if necessary, will require a considerable amount of repairs, including the replacement of the main power plants" - a spokesman said.
At the same time, he stressed that "as long as no decision to this effect has been taken."
gazeta.ru/politics/2014/12/22_a_6355693.shtml wrote:
A source in the military-industrial circles told "Gazeta.ru", that one of the options to replace "Mistral" is the restoration of the Soviet large landing ships (BDK) Project 1174 "Rhinoceros." Who is the preservation of the two ships of the project - "Alexander Nikolaev" and "Mitrofan Moskalenko." To restore them, it will take several years and billions of rubles.
"There is, firstly, the need to examine the body, how it is worn, it should be changed. Surely already rotted lightweight aluminum bulkheads, may require replacement siding. And secondly, it is necessary to completely change all the equipment on modern, "- told" Gazeta.ru "a senior official of the Nevsky Design Bureau (PCB), to develop" Rhinoceros. "
According to him, the budget restoration work has not miscalculate.
"Everything will depend on money. The more it is allocated, the more people will be able to do it. First you need to develop terms of reference, we can do it with the leadership of the Navy, and then will need to select a plant that will upgrade. And it must be a large factory. If there's going to work 1.5 thousand. People, of whom 500 were allocated for repair, and 300 - on the ship, such repair will be delayed at least ten years ", - said the representative of the Nevsky PKB.
He cited the example of the project of modernization of the aircraft carrier "Admiral Gorshkov" aircraft carrier converted into an Indian "Vikramaditya". "This project took eight years, even to the" Sevmash ", and possibly" Sevmash "today does not have any other shipyard. Of course, "Gorshkov" four to six times more "Rhino" and "Sevmash" is now loaded for the full program, and will not do it "- said the" Gazety.Ru ".
At the Baltic Shipyard "Yantar", where both ships were built, "Gazeta.ru" confirmed that they are ready to take an order for modernization "Moskalenko" and "Nikolaev", but not before 2018. At the same time representative of the plant suggested that would be wiser to engage in the modernization of one of the Far Eastern shipyards with specialists from other companies.
Military expert, founder of the portal Military Russia Dmitry Kornev said "Gazeta.ru" that without significant alterations "Rhinos" will not be able to replace the "Mistral" and major changes may catch up with the cost of the creation of a new ship.
From what I read, the only new thing that could be used for the sirian express will be the Ivan Gren that will be commissioned in the next few months
GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 5967
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- Post n°77
Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy
About subs but not their armament: Does anybody any info about gym equipment on Russian subs? specially on nuclear subs...steel weights might cause lots of noise...no weights ? no good for couple of months outside port...body weight fixed gym? i.e. n o moving parts kind of turnik (ghetto workout in US)?
PapaDragon- Posts : 13243
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- Post n°78
Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy
GunshipDemocracy wrote:About subs but not their armament: Does anybody any info about gym equipment on Russian subs? specially on nuclear subs...steel weights might cause lots of noise...no weights ? no good for couple of months outside port...body weight fixed gym? i.e. n o moving parts kind of turnik (ghetto workout in US)?
I am pretty sure they solved that one long ago...
GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 5967
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- Post n°79
Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy
PapaDragon wrote:GunshipDemocracy wrote:About subs but not their armament: Does anybody any info about gym equipment on Russian subs? specially on nuclear subs...steel weights might cause lots of noise...no weights ? no good for couple of months outside port...body weight fixed gym? i.e. n o moving parts kind of turnik (ghetto workout in US)?
I am pretty sure they solved that one long ago...
Actually my question about how and not if
PapaDragon- Posts : 13243
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- Post n°80
Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy
GunshipDemocracy wrote:PapaDragon wrote:GunshipDemocracy wrote:About subs but not their armament: Does anybody any info about gym equipment on Russian subs? specially on nuclear subs...steel weights might cause lots of noise...no weights ? no good for couple of months outside port...body weight fixed gym? i.e. n o moving parts kind of turnik (ghetto workout in US)?
I am pretty sure they solved that one long ago...
Actually my question about how and not if
Well if I had to guess I would say with ample use of rubber....
But seriously, I don't know, we'll have to wait for Artyom or someone else for that one.
GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 5967
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- Post n°81
Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy
PapaDragon wrote:GunshipDemocracy wrote:PapaDragon wrote:GunshipDemocracy wrote:About subs but not their armament: Does anybody any info about gym equipment on Russian subs? specially on nuclear subs...steel weights might cause lots of noise...no weights ? no good for couple of months outside port...body weight fixed gym? i.e. n o moving parts kind of turnik (ghetto workout in US)?
I am pretty sure they solved that one long ago...
Actually my question about how and not if
Well if I had to guess I would say with ample use of rubber....
But seriously, I don't know, we'll have to wait for Artyom or someone else for that one.
Guess so...nevertheless leisure and gym is becoming increasingly important the longe mission lasts...unless you are US sailor from Hollywood movie
GarryB- Posts : 38765
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- Post n°82
About subs but not their armament:
Not really important what it is made of... 5kgs of sand in a hard plastic shell will make noise if it is thrown across the room and bangs into a wall just like a 5kgs steel weight in a plastic shell.
The main issue is securing the weights and bars when not in use.
The main issue is securing the weights and bars when not in use.
nastle77- Posts : 229
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- Post n°83
Questions Thread: Russian Navy
Was there any plan to use the ICBM in the ASUW or ASW role during the cold war era ?
Isos- Posts : 11273
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- Post n°84
Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy
Is Russian navy operating midget subs like yugo class or smaller ? Do they have projects of that type ?
Tsavo Lion- Posts : 5817
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- Post n°85
Re: Questions Thread: Russian Navy
I wonder, can a MiG-25/31 safely take off the Adm. Kuznetsov and/or new Storm project carrier, with/without catapults? In other words, is the flight deck long enough & are the engines powerful enough? I know they won't be navalized, but those B-25s in the Dolittle raid weren't either!
Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:44 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : expand questions)
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