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    Ka-226 and Ansat-U

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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U

    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu May 14, 2015 3:20 pm

    Werewolf wrote:

    The certification will come 2016 reports say

    That engine has been sitting on the bench unfunded since 2005. The state was complacent relying on imports not funding domestic engines, much less the plants to build them.
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U

    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu May 14, 2015 3:24 pm

    Austin wrote:

    TOT is just a name for local lic manuf and maintenance , its does not mean manufacturer will transfer each and every technology  but would transfer knowledge to maintain it here with local manufacturing.

    Yes they might just have a seperate deal with Safran

    There are certain levels of ToT. 100% as you suggested would mean complete transfer of all data and materials necessary for manufacture and operation. Basically moving the whole production unit, or buying it outright. A screw driver job isn't ToT, that is called an offset.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U

    Post  sepheronx on Thu May 14, 2015 4:03 pm

    Vlad, do you seriously think that neither countries, with their specialists didn't think of this before hand?

    An engine may not have been funded for a while, but guess what? Funding is going on now for import substitution.

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    GarryB wrote:The french have no arms embargo against India...

    The EU has an arms embargo... France is part of the EU.

    Not against India it doesn't, hence the Rafale.

    They can sell the engines if so, and I bet you they have already agreed to it hence the agreement from India.

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:

    The certification will come 2016 reports say

    That engine has been sitting on the bench unfunded since 2005. The state was complacent relying on imports not funding domestic engines, much less the plants to build them.

    And the article is from 2013, which goes beyond your statement of 2005 being unfunded.  If it was unfunded since then, in 2013, they wouldn't have said it will pass certification....

    Edit: According to Wiki, the VK-800 engines program restarted in 2005, and in 2007 showcased a prototype that flew various hours. So program is still ongoing and it exists. They do not need a different plant to produce them as they can be built in the same plant as the VK-2500 engine which is being built....in Russia.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U

    Post  sepheronx on Thu May 14, 2015 4:45 pm

    http://www.aviaport.ru/digest/2015/04/01/333821.html

    So in 2015 it was certified for French engines, so best bet is that the engines don't fall under embargo.  As well, it does mention that work is still ongoing for VK-800 engines for the helicopter.

    But, some say that the VK-800 is too heavy/powerful for such a light helicopter. The VK-800 is about 800HP at 142kg while the French engine is 450hp at 78kg.

    mutantsushi

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    Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U

    Post  mutantsushi on Thu May 14, 2015 10:12 pm

    That the Snecma engine is already certified and ready to go helps, it doesn't require any interaction of RusHelo and Safran,
    whatever Indian company is involved in assembly can just order the engines directly, or even IAF/Army can order them separately.

    VK-800 is obviously a very different class of engine, if anything I would think it would enable a single engined version,
    slightly less power, but also slightly less weight than 2x Snecmas (+supporting structure and systems),
    and if the power/weight ratio still isn't quite as nice, then the single engine will be good for low-altitude while
    2xSnecmas is nice for high altitude but less economical/ not particularly needed for everything else.

    Anybody know how India side will be represented in JV? HAL? Private?
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    max steel

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    Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U

    Post  max steel on Thu May 14, 2015 10:28 pm

    Russia’s offer to build Kamov Ka-226T helicopters under the ‘Make in India’ initiative also gets nod .

    Indian Govt has cleared is the Russian proposal to assemble advance twin engine Kamov helicopters . Sources said that 200 light utility helicopter Kamov Ka-226T would be manufactured in India under Make in India initiative, adding that the cost and other modalities would be worked out later.
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U

    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri May 15, 2015 4:23 am

    sepheronx wrote:Vlad, do you seriously think that neither countries, with their specialists didn't think of this before hand?

    An engine may not have been funded for a while, but guess what? Funding is going on now for import substitution.

    They probably thought Proglio was going to become Chairman of Thales and have the clout to get a deal through, but he quit as he refused to step down from RusAtom. The French are clearly not playing our game now. As India intends to use Ka-226T as a military platform, it is barred from meeting civilian use exemption of the embargo. The only way out is to have Safran do direct sale to India with a separate contract.

    sepheronx wrote:
    Not against India it doesn't, hence the Rafale.

    They can sell the engines if so, and I bet you they have already agreed to it hence the agreement from India.

    uhm... unshaven

    And the article is from 2013, which goes beyond your statement of 2005 being unfunded.  If it was unfunded since then, in 2013, they wouldn't have said it will pass certification....

    Edit: According to Wiki, the VK-800 engines program restarted in 2005, and in 2007 showcased a prototype that flew various hours.  So program is still ongoing and it exists.  They do not need a different plant to produce them as they can be built in the same plant as the VK-2500 engine which is being built....in Russia.

    Actually, it hasn't been off the bench. We talking VK-800V, not 800.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U

    Post  sepheronx on Fri May 15, 2015 6:19 am

    It was said VK-800V was tested. Now mind you, it is apparently too powerful for the Ka-226, compared to the french engines.

    I trust the idea that they know what they are doing, especially in selling a product. I imagine it will end up as sale of the helicopter and they purchase a separate contract for engines from France. Or India invests in co-development of the VK-800V engines.

    Austin

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    Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U

    Post  Austin on Fri May 15, 2015 7:50 am

    How many Ka-226 has beeen ordered by All branches of Russian Military and Private companies so far ?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U

    Post  GarryB on Fri May 15, 2015 12:42 pm

    It was my understanding that the VK-800V engines were intentionally more powerful to allow much better hot and high performance for the Ka-226T, which was a requirement for the Indians.

    The increased power also allowed a wider range of "pods" to be carried by the helo at the expensive of fuel economy of course, but the wider flight envelope and heavier payloads made it worth while.

    For lower altitude and lower temperature use the french engines offered better fuel economy and reduced weights.

    If they are going to produce these aircraft in India then they will obviously have something in mind to solve the problems.

    mutantsushi

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    Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U

    Post  mutantsushi on Sat May 16, 2015 2:55 am

    Well all this time during tender(s) with no sanctions on Russia, India was assessing it with French engines.
    Klimov does list VK-800 as "500-800hp" so at the lower end it is just a perfect replacement.
    Obviously in Ansat or whatever 800hp or more is going to be the goal.

    Austin

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    Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U

    Post  Austin on Sat May 16, 2015 6:21 pm

    I doubt the Ka-226T is as bad the article claims to be

    The Indian Light Utility Helicopter Procurement: where does the HAL LUH stand?
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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun May 24, 2015 7:57 am

    Moscow. May 22. Interfax-AVN - New helicopter unit is formed as a part of 6991-th Russian Air Force Base deployed at Chkalovsky airfield near Moscow, said on Friday "Interfax-AVN" in the helicopter industry.

          "The new squadron will be armed with 12 Ka-226B. Currently 10 machines have already been delivered," - said the agency interlocutor.
          According to him, "the personnel of the squadron passed retraining on new equipment."
          6991 Air Base - is the successor to the aircraft division of special purpose. Its aircraft recently completed the task of evacuating Russians from civil war-torn Yemen.

    http://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=377242

    Also...

    Russian Helicopters Ka-226T receives IAC AR certification
    http://www.verticalmag.com/news/article/RussianHelicoptersKa226TreceivesIACARcertification

    Russian Helicopters' Ansat and Ka-226T enter the Russian commercial market
    http://www.verticalmag.com/news/article/RussianHelicoptersAnsatandKa226TentertheRussiancommercialmar


    Austin wrote:I doubt the Ka-226T is as bad the article claims to be

    The Indian Light Utility Helicopter Procurement: where does the HAL LUH stand?

    I'm no expert, but that post sounds like a hatchet job on the Ka-226, considering it outperformed it's rivals in the original tests and IMO is more versatile

    The Ka-226T underwent testing in India as part of the Reconnaissance and Surveillance Helicopter (RSH) acquisition programme, which was cancelled by the Indian authorities in 2014. The helicopter out-performed its Western counterparts during flights in India's hot conditions and mountainous areas. The Ka-226T was demonstrated at Aero India 2015 exhibition held in Bangalore, India.

    http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/ka-226t-multi-mission-helicopter/
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U

    Post  Werewolf on Sun May 24, 2015 1:23 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:
    Moscow. May 22. Interfax-AVN - New helicopter unit is formed as a part of 6991-th Russian Air Force Base deployed at Chkalovsky airfield near Moscow, said on Friday "Interfax-AVN" in the helicopter industry.

          "The new squadron will be armed with 12 Ka-226B. Currently 10 machines have already been delivered," - said the agency interlocutor.
          According to him, "the personnel of the squadron passed retraining on new equipment."
          6991 Air Base - is the successor to the aircraft division of special purpose. Its aircraft recently completed the task of evacuating Russians from civil war-torn Yemen.

    http://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=377242

    Also...

    Russian Helicopters Ka-226T receives IAC AR certification
    http://www.verticalmag.com/news/article/RussianHelicoptersKa226TreceivesIACARcertification

    Russian Helicopters' Ansat and Ka-226T enter the Russian commercial market
    http://www.verticalmag.com/news/article/RussianHelicoptersAnsatandKa226TentertheRussiancommercialmar


    Austin wrote:I doubt the Ka-226T is as bad the article claims to be

    The Indian Light Utility Helicopter Procurement: where does the HAL LUH stand?

    I'm no expert, but that post sounds like a hatchet job on the Ka-226, considering it outperformed it's rivals in the original tests and IMO is more versatile

    The Ka-226T underwent testing in India as part of the Reconnaissance and Surveillance Helicopter (RSH) acquisition programme, which was cancelled by the Indian authorities in 2014. The helicopter out-performed its Western counterparts during flights in India's hot conditions and mountainous areas. The Ka-226T was demonstrated at Aero India 2015 exhibition held in Bangalore, India.

    http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/ka-226t-multi-mission-helicopter/

    Because this is one of the indians that is a die hard inidian patriot paired with Pro USA crap, all his "analysis" are tailored in advances to have an outcome favored for a specific aircraft. That guy has so much of genuine intentions of a fair comperision and evaluation like a lobbyist for Monsanto.
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    George1

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    Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U

    Post  George1 on Sat Jul 04, 2015 3:09 pm

    The date for starting mass production of Ka-226T helicopter in Russia was set
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    George1

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    Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U

    Post  George1 on Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:29 pm

    Putin instructed to finalize the product line of the helicopter "ANSAT"
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    George1

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    Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U

    Post  George1 on Fri Aug 28, 2015 1:47 pm

    Supply of 40 "Ansat-U" helicopters to the Russian Air Force to be completed in 2016

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    George1

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    Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U

    Post  George1 on Fri Aug 28, 2015 1:54 pm

    "Helicopters of Russia" develop SAR version of "Ansat"
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    George1

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    Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U

    Post  George1 on Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:27 pm

    Ministry of Industry: "ANSAT" helicopter must get a Russian engine
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    George1

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    Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U

    Post  George1 on Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:54 pm

    VIP-certified helicopter modification "ANSAT"
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    George1

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    Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U

    Post  George1 on Sun May 22, 2016 2:09 am

    "Technodynamics" develops engines for light helicopters

    Holding "Τechnodynamics" State Corporation "Rostec" on May 20, 2016 during the exhibition Helirussia-2016 announced the start of work on the family of the main engines for the TD-700 light helicopters in Moscow. They are expected to replace the existing engines manufactured by Pratt & Whitney and Turbomeca helicopter "ANSAT" and Ka-226T.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1914658.html
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U

    Post  sepheronx on Sun May 22, 2016 2:17 am

    If this is the case, then these engines may end up what is needed for Ka-60?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U

    Post  GarryB on Sun May 22, 2016 9:03 am

    The engines for Ka-60 were in the 1,300hp power range, so these engines are a little small.

    they were talking about developing a whole new family range of engines for helicopters and transport aircraft from very big to small... and they have clearly developed very small engines for various cruise missile designs too.

    I suspect they know what they are doing.
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U

    Post  TheArmenian on Sun May 22, 2016 9:16 am

    sepheronx wrote:If this is the case, then these engines may end up what is needed for Ka-60?
    Nope. These are too small and don't create enough power for the Ka-60.
    Try again.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U

    Post  Werewolf on Sun May 22, 2016 7:46 pm

    They would need something like VK-1700 series of engines, but way to go to market such product which they have showed little interest to research and produce such product yet. Slim market share for such engines Klimov has that is why they are not gambling on such class of helicopters.

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