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    Ka-226 and Ansat-U

    Viktor
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    Post  Viktor Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:33 pm

    Defense Ministry received six new helicopters "ANSAT-U
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:39 pm

    So that is 24 Ansat-U in service?

    Article says 19 are in training use, but PiBu said 18 were in service previously...
    Viktor
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    Post  Viktor Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:05 pm

    TR1 wrote:So that is 24 Ansat-U in service?

    Article says 19 are in training use, but PiBu said 18 were in service previously...
    Nice. I guess we will see much more of them next year and the year after.
    George1
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    Post  George1 Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:15 pm

    Six Ansat-U helicopters were delivered to the Sokol training air group
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:16 pm

    http://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=11873841@egNews

    9 Ka-226s will be delivered to the training group Sokol before the end of the year. Currently the center operates 17 choppers of the type.
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:35 am

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/711410.html

    3 Ka-226 ordered for medical work in Moscow.
    George1
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    Post  George1 Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:42 am

    The Air Force Academy will receive six new ANSAT-U helicopters
    Viktor
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    Post  Viktor Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:05 pm

    Nice thumbsup

    The first group of cadets of the Military Training and Research Center, the Air Force pilot training was held on helicopters "ANSAT-U"
    George1
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    Post  George1 Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:39 am

    Six Ansat-U training helicopters will be delivered to the Syzran branch of the military training scientific centre of the Air Force till the end of 2014.

    http://in.rbth.com/news/2014/10/28/russian_air_force_to_receive_over_120_new_helicopters_till_yearend_39371.html

    Viktor
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    Post  Viktor Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:36 pm

    Nice thumbsup

    "Helicopters of Russia" party handed Ka-226 Russian Defense Ministry
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    Post  Austin Thu May 14, 2015 9:01 am

    India ordered 200 Sergei Ka-226 cheers
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    Post  Admin Thu May 14, 2015 10:09 am

    Austin wrote:India ordered 200 Sergei Ka-226 cheers

    I want to know how we will deliver a helicopter with French engines with an EU arms embargo in effect. Helicopter production has slowed to a trickle as Motor Sich engines dry up.
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    Post  Werewolf Thu May 14, 2015 10:15 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    Austin wrote:India ordered 200 Sergei Ka-226 cheers

    I want to know how we will deliver a helicopter with French engines with an EU arms embargo in effect.  Helicopter production has slowed to a trickle as Motor Sich engines dry up.  

    The alternative for Ka-226 engines is russian VK-800V Klimow engines.

    http://www.klimov.ru/en/production/helicopter/VK-800V/

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    Post  Admin Thu May 14, 2015 10:44 am

    Werewolf wrote:

    The alternative for Ka-226 engines is russian VK-800V Klimow engines.

    http://www.klimov.ru/en/production/helicopter/VK-800V/


    We are going to sell the Indians a helicopter with an engine nowhere close to certification?
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    Post  Austin Thu May 14, 2015 11:10 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    Austin wrote:India ordered 200 Sergei Ka-226 cheers

    I want to know how we will deliver a helicopter with French engines with an EU arms embargo in effect.  Helicopter production has slowed to a trickle as Motor Sich engines dry up.  

    The engine would be supplied to Indians and its a 100 % TOT deal all all 200 Ka will be manufacutred in India.
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    Post  Werewolf Thu May 14, 2015 11:22 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:

    The alternative for Ka-226 engines is russian VK-800V Klimow engines.

    http://www.klimov.ru/en/production/helicopter/VK-800V/


    We are going to sell the Indians a helicopter with an engine nowhere close to certification?

    The certification will come 2016 reports say.

    http://survincity.com/2013/10/jsc-klimov-began-work-on-creating-engine-vk-800v/

    Promising engine VC-800B — the only project power plant is being developed now a "clean slate." How’s this project?
    — Promote the project in Russia is hampered by lack of real helicopter on which the VC-800B engine could be installed. Traditionally in Russia are the objects in the class take-off weight of 10-12 tons Helicopters mass 4 — 5 m for which designed and VK-800V, and have remained on paper. In view of the characteristics of the engine competitive on the western and eastern markets, where the spread helicopters of this class, but these markets are fairly rigidly reserved. However, as we are confident in the prospects of the project, now VC-800B engine is used in the framework of the program of establishing the planned helicopter engine for developing key technologies in various fields, such as thermodynamics, gas dynamics, and materials science. A number of promising technologies will be implemented in the final version of the engine, which is scheduled for certification in 2016
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu May 14, 2015 11:58 am

    The french have no arms embargo against India... Russia could sell them the helos and France could sell them the engines... in fact I seem to remember they were talking about licence production of the Ka-226T in India as being the preferred option...

    Having a choice of Russian or French engines would probably suit the Indians... they get a great helo and a choice of engines to suit their preference.

    Certainly a choice of engines would be useful as engines for hot and high are not often suited to other uses as they tend to be over powered for more mundane purposes... which reduces their efficiency.
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    Post  Admin Thu May 14, 2015 2:57 pm

    Austin wrote:

    The engine would be supplied to Indians and its a 100 % TOT deal all all 200 Ka will be manufacutred in India.

    That would require a separate deal with Safran as they are embargoed from doing business with Kamov.  You don't get ToT on French engines, even Shakti is just a screw driver job.


    Last edited by Vladimir79 on Thu May 14, 2015 3:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Admin
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    Post  Admin Thu May 14, 2015 2:59 pm

    GarryB wrote:The french have no arms embargo against India...

    The EU has an arms embargo... France is part of the EU.
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    Post  Austin Thu May 14, 2015 3:05 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    Austin wrote:

    The engine would be supplied to Indians and its a 100 % TOT deal all all 200 Ka will be manufacutred in India.

    That would require a separate deal with Safran as they are embargoed from doing business with Kamov.  You don't get ToT on French engines, even Shakti is just a screw driver job.

    TOT is just a name for local lic manuf and maintenance , its does not mean manufacturer will transfer each and every technology but would transfer knowledge to maintain it here with local manufacturing.

    Yes they might just have a seperate deal with Safran
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    Post  Admin Thu May 14, 2015 3:20 pm

    Werewolf wrote:

    The certification will come 2016 reports say

    That engine has been sitting on the bench unfunded since 2005. The state was complacent relying on imports not funding domestic engines, much less the plants to build them.
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    Post  Admin Thu May 14, 2015 3:24 pm

    Austin wrote:

    TOT is just a name for local lic manuf and maintenance , its does not mean manufacturer will transfer each and every technology  but would transfer knowledge to maintain it here with local manufacturing.

    Yes they might just have a seperate deal with Safran

    There are certain levels of ToT. 100% as you suggested would mean complete transfer of all data and materials necessary for manufacture and operation. Basically moving the whole production unit, or buying it outright. A screw driver job isn't ToT, that is called an offset.
    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx Thu May 14, 2015 4:03 pm

    Vlad, do you seriously think that neither countries, with their specialists didn't think of this before hand?

    An engine may not have been funded for a while, but guess what? Funding is going on now for import substitution.

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    GarryB wrote:The french have no arms embargo against India...

    The EU has an arms embargo... France is part of the EU.

    Not against India it doesn't, hence the Rafale.

    They can sell the engines if so, and I bet you they have already agreed to it hence the agreement from India.

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:

    The certification will come 2016 reports say

    That engine has been sitting on the bench unfunded since 2005. The state was complacent relying on imports not funding domestic engines, much less the plants to build them.

    And the article is from 2013, which goes beyond your statement of 2005 being unfunded.  If it was unfunded since then, in 2013, they wouldn't have said it will pass certification....

    Edit: According to Wiki, the VK-800 engines program restarted in 2005, and in 2007 showcased a prototype that flew various hours. So program is still ongoing and it exists. They do not need a different plant to produce them as they can be built in the same plant as the VK-2500 engine which is being built....in Russia.
    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx Thu May 14, 2015 4:45 pm

    http://www.aviaport.ru/digest/2015/04/01/333821.html

    So in 2015 it was certified for French engines, so best bet is that the engines don't fall under embargo.  As well, it does mention that work is still ongoing for VK-800 engines for the helicopter.

    But, some say that the VK-800 is too heavy/powerful for such a light helicopter. The VK-800 is about 800HP at 142kg while the French engine is 450hp at 78kg.
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    Post  mutantsushi Thu May 14, 2015 10:12 pm

    That the Snecma engine is already certified and ready to go helps, it doesn't require any interaction of RusHelo and Safran,
    whatever Indian company is involved in assembly can just order the engines directly, or even IAF/Army can order them separately.

    VK-800 is obviously a very different class of engine, if anything I would think it would enable a single engined version,
    slightly less power, but also slightly less weight than 2x Snecmas (+supporting structure and systems),
    and if the power/weight ratio still isn't quite as nice, then the single engine will be good for low-altitude while
    2xSnecmas is nice for high altitude but less economical/ not particularly needed for everything else.

    Anybody know how India side will be represented in JV? HAL? Private?

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