+21
Hole
AMCXXL
PapaDragon
d_taddei2
Rodion_Romanovic
Singular_Transform
TheArmenian
Cyberspec
mutantsushi
max steel
sepheronx
Werewolf
George1
TR1
Russian Patriot
Hoof
medo
Viktor
GarryB
Austin
Admin
25 posters
Ka-226 and Ansat-U
Viktor- Posts : 5796
Points : 6429
Join date : 2009-08-25
Age : 43
Location : Croatia
- Post n°31
Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U
Defense Ministry received six new helicopters "ANSAT-U
TR1- Posts : 5435
Points : 5433
Join date : 2011-12-06
- Post n°32
Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U
So that is 24 Ansat-U in service?
Article says 19 are in training use, but PiBu said 18 were in service previously...
Article says 19 are in training use, but PiBu said 18 were in service previously...
Viktor- Posts : 5796
Points : 6429
Join date : 2009-08-25
Age : 43
Location : Croatia
Nice. I guess we will see much more of them next year and the year after.TR1 wrote:So that is 24 Ansat-U in service?
Article says 19 are in training use, but PiBu said 18 were in service previously...
George1- Posts : 18268
Points : 18765
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
- Post n°34
Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U
Six Ansat-U helicopters were delivered to the Sokol training air group
TR1- Posts : 5435
Points : 5433
Join date : 2011-12-06
- Post n°35
Ka-226 and Ansat
http://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=11873841@egNews
9 Ka-226s will be delivered to the training group Sokol before the end of the year. Currently the center operates 17 choppers of the type.
9 Ka-226s will be delivered to the training group Sokol before the end of the year. Currently the center operates 17 choppers of the type.
TR1- Posts : 5435
Points : 5433
Join date : 2011-12-06
- Post n°36
Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/711410.html
3 Ka-226 ordered for medical work in Moscow.
3 Ka-226 ordered for medical work in Moscow.
George1- Posts : 18268
Points : 18765
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
- Post n°37
Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U
The Air Force Academy will receive six new ANSAT-U helicopters
Viktor- Posts : 5796
Points : 6429
Join date : 2009-08-25
Age : 43
Location : Croatia
- Post n°38
Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U
Nice
The first group of cadets of the Military Training and Research Center, the Air Force pilot training was held on helicopters "ANSAT-U"
The first group of cadets of the Military Training and Research Center, the Air Force pilot training was held on helicopters "ANSAT-U"
George1- Posts : 18268
Points : 18765
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
- Post n°39
Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U
Six Ansat-U training helicopters will be delivered to the Syzran branch of the military training scientific centre of the Air Force till the end of 2014.
http://in.rbth.com/news/2014/10/28/russian_air_force_to_receive_over_120_new_helicopters_till_yearend_39371.html
http://in.rbth.com/news/2014/10/28/russian_air_force_to_receive_over_120_new_helicopters_till_yearend_39371.html
Viktor- Posts : 5796
Points : 6429
Join date : 2009-08-25
Age : 43
Location : Croatia
- Post n°40
Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U
Nice
"Helicopters of Russia" party handed Ka-226 Russian Defense Ministry
"Helicopters of Russia" party handed Ka-226 Russian Defense Ministry
Austin- Posts : 7617
Points : 8014
Join date : 2010-05-08
Location : India
- Post n°41
Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U
India ordered 200 Sergei Ka-226
Admin- Posts : 2926
Points : 3798
Join date : 2009-07-10
- Post n°42
Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U
Austin wrote:India ordered 200 Sergei Ka-226
I want to know how we will deliver a helicopter with French engines with an EU arms embargo in effect. Helicopter production has slowed to a trickle as Motor Sich engines dry up.
Werewolf- Posts : 5913
Points : 6102
Join date : 2012-10-24
- Post n°43
Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U
Vladimir79 wrote:Austin wrote:India ordered 200 Sergei Ka-226
I want to know how we will deliver a helicopter with French engines with an EU arms embargo in effect. Helicopter production has slowed to a trickle as Motor Sich engines dry up.
The alternative for Ka-226 engines is russian VK-800V Klimow engines.
http://www.klimov.ru/en/production/helicopter/VK-800V/
Admin- Posts : 2926
Points : 3798
Join date : 2009-07-10
- Post n°44
Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U
Werewolf wrote:
The alternative for Ka-226 engines is russian VK-800V Klimow engines.
http://www.klimov.ru/en/production/helicopter/VK-800V/
We are going to sell the Indians a helicopter with an engine nowhere close to certification?
Austin- Posts : 7617
Points : 8014
Join date : 2010-05-08
Location : India
- Post n°45
Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U
Vladimir79 wrote:Austin wrote:India ordered 200 Sergei Ka-226
I want to know how we will deliver a helicopter with French engines with an EU arms embargo in effect. Helicopter production has slowed to a trickle as Motor Sich engines dry up.
The engine would be supplied to Indians and its a 100 % TOT deal all all 200 Ka will be manufacutred in India.
Werewolf- Posts : 5913
Points : 6102
Join date : 2012-10-24
- Post n°46
Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U
Vladimir79 wrote:Werewolf wrote:
The alternative for Ka-226 engines is russian VK-800V Klimow engines.
http://www.klimov.ru/en/production/helicopter/VK-800V/
We are going to sell the Indians a helicopter with an engine nowhere close to certification?
The certification will come 2016 reports say.
http://survincity.com/2013/10/jsc-klimov-began-work-on-creating-engine-vk-800v/
Promising engine VC-800B — the only project power plant is being developed now a "clean slate." How’s this project?
— Promote the project in Russia is hampered by lack of real helicopter on which the VC-800B engine could be installed. Traditionally in Russia are the objects in the class take-off weight of 10-12 tons Helicopters mass 4 — 5 m for which designed and VK-800V, and have remained on paper. In view of the characteristics of the engine competitive on the western and eastern markets, where the spread helicopters of this class, but these markets are fairly rigidly reserved. However, as we are confident in the prospects of the project, now VC-800B engine is used in the framework of the program of establishing the planned helicopter engine for developing key technologies in various fields, such as thermodynamics, gas dynamics, and materials science. A number of promising technologies will be implemented in the final version of the engine, which is scheduled for certification in 2016
GarryB- Posts : 38765
Points : 39261
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
- Post n°47
Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U
The french have no arms embargo against India... Russia could sell them the helos and France could sell them the engines... in fact I seem to remember they were talking about licence production of the Ka-226T in India as being the preferred option...
Having a choice of Russian or French engines would probably suit the Indians... they get a great helo and a choice of engines to suit their preference.
Certainly a choice of engines would be useful as engines for hot and high are not often suited to other uses as they tend to be over powered for more mundane purposes... which reduces their efficiency.
Having a choice of Russian or French engines would probably suit the Indians... they get a great helo and a choice of engines to suit their preference.
Certainly a choice of engines would be useful as engines for hot and high are not often suited to other uses as they tend to be over powered for more mundane purposes... which reduces their efficiency.
Admin- Posts : 2926
Points : 3798
Join date : 2009-07-10
- Post n°48
Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U
Austin wrote:
The engine would be supplied to Indians and its a 100 % TOT deal all all 200 Ka will be manufacutred in India.
That would require a separate deal with Safran as they are embargoed from doing business with Kamov. You don't get ToT on French engines, even Shakti is just a screw driver job.
Last edited by Vladimir79 on Thu May 14, 2015 3:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
Admin- Posts : 2926
Points : 3798
Join date : 2009-07-10
- Post n°49
Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U
GarryB wrote:The french have no arms embargo against India...
The EU has an arms embargo... France is part of the EU.
Austin- Posts : 7617
Points : 8014
Join date : 2010-05-08
Location : India
- Post n°50
Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U
Vladimir79 wrote:Austin wrote:
The engine would be supplied to Indians and its a 100 % TOT deal all all 200 Ka will be manufacutred in India.
That would require a separate deal with Safran as they are embargoed from doing business with Kamov. You don't get ToT on French engines, even Shakti is just a screw driver job.
TOT is just a name for local lic manuf and maintenance , its does not mean manufacturer will transfer each and every technology but would transfer knowledge to maintain it here with local manufacturing.
Yes they might just have a seperate deal with Safran
Admin- Posts : 2926
Points : 3798
Join date : 2009-07-10
- Post n°51
Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U
Werewolf wrote:
The certification will come 2016 reports say
That engine has been sitting on the bench unfunded since 2005. The state was complacent relying on imports not funding domestic engines, much less the plants to build them.
Admin- Posts : 2926
Points : 3798
Join date : 2009-07-10
- Post n°52
Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U
Austin wrote:
TOT is just a name for local lic manuf and maintenance , its does not mean manufacturer will transfer each and every technology but would transfer knowledge to maintain it here with local manufacturing.
Yes they might just have a seperate deal with Safran
There are certain levels of ToT. 100% as you suggested would mean complete transfer of all data and materials necessary for manufacture and operation. Basically moving the whole production unit, or buying it outright. A screw driver job isn't ToT, that is called an offset.
sepheronx- Posts : 8495
Points : 8757
Join date : 2009-08-06
Age : 34
Location : Canada
- Post n°53
Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U
Vlad, do you seriously think that neither countries, with their specialists didn't think of this before hand?
An engine may not have been funded for a while, but guess what? Funding is going on now for import substitution.
Not against India it doesn't, hence the Rafale.
They can sell the engines if so, and I bet you they have already agreed to it hence the agreement from India.
And the article is from 2013, which goes beyond your statement of 2005 being unfunded. If it was unfunded since then, in 2013, they wouldn't have said it will pass certification....
Edit: According to Wiki, the VK-800 engines program restarted in 2005, and in 2007 showcased a prototype that flew various hours. So program is still ongoing and it exists. They do not need a different plant to produce them as they can be built in the same plant as the VK-2500 engine which is being built....in Russia.
An engine may not have been funded for a while, but guess what? Funding is going on now for import substitution.
Vladimir79 wrote:GarryB wrote:The french have no arms embargo against India...
The EU has an arms embargo... France is part of the EU.
Not against India it doesn't, hence the Rafale.
They can sell the engines if so, and I bet you they have already agreed to it hence the agreement from India.
Vladimir79 wrote:Werewolf wrote:
The certification will come 2016 reports say
That engine has been sitting on the bench unfunded since 2005. The state was complacent relying on imports not funding domestic engines, much less the plants to build them.
And the article is from 2013, which goes beyond your statement of 2005 being unfunded. If it was unfunded since then, in 2013, they wouldn't have said it will pass certification....
Edit: According to Wiki, the VK-800 engines program restarted in 2005, and in 2007 showcased a prototype that flew various hours. So program is still ongoing and it exists. They do not need a different plant to produce them as they can be built in the same plant as the VK-2500 engine which is being built....in Russia.
sepheronx- Posts : 8495
Points : 8757
Join date : 2009-08-06
Age : 34
Location : Canada
- Post n°54
Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U
http://www.aviaport.ru/digest/2015/04/01/333821.html
So in 2015 it was certified for French engines, so best bet is that the engines don't fall under embargo. As well, it does mention that work is still ongoing for VK-800 engines for the helicopter.
But, some say that the VK-800 is too heavy/powerful for such a light helicopter. The VK-800 is about 800HP at 142kg while the French engine is 450hp at 78kg.
So in 2015 it was certified for French engines, so best bet is that the engines don't fall under embargo. As well, it does mention that work is still ongoing for VK-800 engines for the helicopter.
But, some say that the VK-800 is too heavy/powerful for such a light helicopter. The VK-800 is about 800HP at 142kg while the French engine is 450hp at 78kg.
mutantsushi- Posts : 283
Points : 305
Join date : 2013-12-11
- Post n°55
Re: Ka-226 and Ansat-U
That the Snecma engine is already certified and ready to go helps, it doesn't require any interaction of RusHelo and Safran,
whatever Indian company is involved in assembly can just order the engines directly, or even IAF/Army can order them separately.
VK-800 is obviously a very different class of engine, if anything I would think it would enable a single engined version,
slightly less power, but also slightly less weight than 2x Snecmas (+supporting structure and systems),
and if the power/weight ratio still isn't quite as nice, then the single engine will be good for low-altitude while
2xSnecmas is nice for high altitude but less economical/ not particularly needed for everything else.
Anybody know how India side will be represented in JV? HAL? Private?
whatever Indian company is involved in assembly can just order the engines directly, or even IAF/Army can order them separately.
VK-800 is obviously a very different class of engine, if anything I would think it would enable a single engined version,
slightly less power, but also slightly less weight than 2x Snecmas (+supporting structure and systems),
and if the power/weight ratio still isn't quite as nice, then the single engine will be good for low-altitude while
2xSnecmas is nice for high altitude but less economical/ not particularly needed for everything else.
Anybody know how India side will be represented in JV? HAL? Private?
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