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    Russian-Made Crash Notification

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    sepheronx
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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jun 04, 2015 5:48 pm

    http://tass.ru/en/russia/798849

    Pilots in satisfactory conditions.

    GarryB
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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jun 05, 2015 12:15 pm

    Ok, but am curious as to how it just "rolled" off the runway. Sucks.

    Aircraft hitting rough or soft ground at high speed often have their undercarriage collapse and flip or roll...


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    sepheronx
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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  sepheronx on Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:16 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Ok, but am curious as to how it just "rolled" off the runway. Sucks.

    Aircraft hitting rough or soft ground at high speed often have their undercarriage collapse and flip or roll...

    I just wasn't sure of even what happened. I just read what Berkut said and I get the image that it was parked. Anyway, good to know. Is it repairable?

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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:59 am

    I just wasn't sure of even what happened. I just read what Berkut said and I get the image that it was parked. Anyway, good to know. Is it repairable?

    Smile


    He said:

    And a Su-34 rolled off the runway and flipped at Voronezh after chute didnt deploy.

    I suspect he meant the Su-34s landing parachute failed to deploy so it continued off the end of the runway...

    Hasn't been mentioned if it is repairable... likely depends on the speed and therefore damage...


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    sepheronx
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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:43 am

    GarryB wrote:
    I just wasn't sure of even what happened. I just read what Berkut said and I get the image that it was parked. Anyway, good to know. Is it repairable?

    Smile


    He said:

    And a Su-34 rolled off the runway and flipped at Voronezh after chute didnt deploy.

    I suspect he meant the Su-34s landing parachute failed to deploy so it continued off the end of the runway...

    Hasn't been mentioned if it is repairable... likely depends on the speed and therefore damage...

    Embarassed

    Now after re-reading it, finally makes sense to me. How embarrassing for me.

    Anyway, like mentioned, glad the pilots for the Su-34 are ok. Hopefully it is reparable or in this case, guess NAPO will get another extra order.

    Berkut
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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  Berkut on Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:00 pm

    The chute information was widely circulated on official media but it is wrong information.

    Everything points to pilot error, confirmed by eyewitnesses too. Landed way too fast and too late, so it rolled off the runway. Parachutes were deployed, again confirmed by eyewitnesses and can see the harnesses in one of the pictures.

    sepheronx
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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:07 pm

    I saw your post at key publishing forums. Do you think it is repairable?

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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  Cyberspec on Tue Jun 09, 2015 2:13 am

    Looks repairable judging by the pics....might need a new radar though as mentioned previously.


    Another incident...this time a Tu-95

    Russian strategic bomber overruns take-off runway as one of engines catches fire
    http://tass.ru/en/russia/799571

    sepheronx
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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:21 pm

    http://tass.ru/en/russia/806312

    Both pilots died, Su-24M grounded till investigation is over.

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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  Prince Darling on Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:06 pm

    reading that this is the 5th accident in the last month, first with casualties.

    any idea what is to blame for this bad trend? Pilot errors, maintenance, etc. ?

    sepheronx
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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:10 pm

    Some of one, some of the other or both. Freak accidents a lot of them. Unfortunately, with older planes, will keep happening. RIP to pilots.

    sepheronx
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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:24 am

    Russian Investigative Committee to Probe Su-24M Jet Crash
    A criminal case has been open for alleged violations of flights rules which led to a Monday crash of a Russian Su-24M Fencer supersonic attack jet in Russia's eastern Khabarovsk region, a representative of the Military Investigation Department of the Eastern Military District of Russian Armed Forces said Tuesday.
    MOSCOW(Sputnik) — On Monday, the Russian Defense Ministry said that a Russian Su-24M Fencer supersonic attack jet has crashed in Russia's eastern Khabarovsk region killing both pilots on board.

    “On July six 2015, the military investigation department of the Investigative Committee of Russia in Komsomolsk-on-Amur opened a case under article 351 of the Criminal Code of Russian Federation ‘Violation of the Rules for Flights and Training for Them.’ The investigation is underway.”

    Earlier a source told RIA Novosti that a technical malfunction of the aircraft engines was the most probable cause of the accident.

    GarryB
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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jul 07, 2015 6:09 am

    Probably increased flight time for the older airframes are likely putting pressure on them... plus the wide variety of locations, conditions, and weather to contend with along with the extra flight time for older airframes, and of course brand new types.


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    sepheronx
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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:43 am

    Another crash. A Tu-95 this time. No weapons onboard and pilots safely ejected. Failure of 3 apu units.

    And that asshole finance minister wants to reduce defence spending.

    max steel
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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  max steel on Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:45 am

    Tu-95 Bomber crashed . Not a nice sign . Better retire it .

    Vann7
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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  Vann7 on Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:23 pm

    Russia have more Accidents with military and planes that all other world nations combined..
    today ANOTHER.. yes ANother plane crash.. this time a TU-95 bear..  lets see this year alone..
    and in many of them with casualties on the pilots..


    Su-24 in Khabarovsk region 6th of July 2015
    MIG29 in Krasnodar region 3rd of July 2015
    MIG29 in Astrakhan region 4th of
    June 2015
    Su 34 in Voronezh region 4th of June 2015
    Tu-95 in Amur region 8th of June 2015

    and now this
    Tu 95 today....


    http://rt.com/news/273520-tu95-bomber-crash-russia/

    IF this is a case of the world Major incompetence ever seen ?
    It looks like Russia have lost more planes than Ukraine since early 2014 ,and Russia is not at war.  My bet this have to do with the Terrible state of Russia defense Industry ,when it comes
    to quality controls.. A revolution will be required ,reorganization . This is not embarrassing..
    this already surpassed anything unthinkable.. and this is not counting the casualties on soldiers
    on the ground.. that they are neither safe.. buildings also collapse..  Im just without words..
    Something needs to change and people kicked , turn the whole defense industry in a very profitable agency ,where people are paid well ,so they do a better job.. perhaps reduce the size
    of the army ,navy and airforce and have a smaller one but better paid soldiers and mechanics ,with modern facilities..

    When the next crash will be? can we hope to get a full month without an accident in Russia?
    in the military ?what you think? because it seems as if every 2-3 weeks someone is killed or
    have an accident in the armed forces in Russia. The most painful thing will be the excuses
    that you always hear from Russia.. a major military reform will be needed and the Russian
    Government no longer give excuses for this disaster.

    flamming_python
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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:41 pm

    This is a sign of considerably increased operational tempo/sorties/flight hours; that has been instated over the past year, and has possibly been increased further during the last 3 months or this is just the strain on old airframes manifesting from over a year now of hard work.

    However at the same time, a thorough comb for possible Ukie saboteurs would also be a nice idea.

    OminousSpudd
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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  OminousSpudd on Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:57 pm

    Nothing good can ever develope from everything running perfect all the time, mistakes made equals lessons learned...

    Still, a little depressing. Good thing the crew made it out safely.
    Flamming_Python is bang on with the increased flight time/extra sorties. I would not be suprised if this is the majority of the problem.

    sepheronx
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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:09 pm

    Vann

    Russian aerospace industry isnt at fault for this, added in, Russian military is one of the top highest paying jobs now in Russia, especially on state controlled side of things.

    This has more to do with years of neglect of proper maintenance, mixed in with far more rapid training operations happening. These Tu-95's are old. Add in, if they had proper maintenance before, then I doubt they would be this problematic now.

    The areas to look at are both the training and the repair plants/maintenance facilities. New Russian jets rarely get these issues, besides the recent Su-34, and most modern Russian jets are of high quality. It boils down to who and where the maintenance is being performed. Maybe more money is needed, maybe they need to contract out repairs to a private company, maybe they need better training and new facilities.

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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:19 pm

    This would put that discussion we had about restarting Tu-160 production to bed.

    Bears are amazing machines but, unlike B-52s, they had misfortune of experiencing paradise of the 90's.

    It is time for them to go to well deserved retirement. Blackjacks should take over the work and their renewed production will provide good foundation for when PAK-DA reaches serial production phase.

    sepheronx
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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:25 pm

    I agree with this statement.

    According to Berkut on the other forums, one pilot is dead.

    Vann7
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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  Vann7 on Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:42 pm

    Quality controls in Russia are the main issue here.. they dont exist.. Not long ago a Ka-52
    a brand new helicopter also crashed.. this is beyond ridiculous. And it pretty much looks
    that is the salaries and environment work conditions and lealdership, things that directly impact the motivation of people are NOT there.  Without good leaders ,without good salaries and environment conditions ,you cannot have motivated technicians to do their job well.

    So is a problem that can be fixed with money...or significantly improved..

    Now people knows why Americans obsession to target and sabotage Russia economy in every possible way.. They target with sanctions Russian business and prohibit Europe to do business
    with them..and provoke civil wars as they did in Ukraine ,which main goal is Russia economy.
    To lifting sanctions on IRAN..so they flood the market with iranian oil and makes cheaper oil..
    again to sabotage Russia economy. To attacks with their media on Russia Sochi Industry with propaganda and toothpaste bombs. Storming FIFA offices to sabotage Russia world cup in 2018.
    something that will generate many tourism. And militarizing Russian Borders to force Russia into a weapons race..with US . All this things, are part of the same paper ,same strategy. That is to create the worse possible conditions for Russian citizens,either civilians or military . And create unemployment or low pay jobs.. things that damage the popularity of any Government.

    US is effectively in an Economic War against Russia.. but is not yet full scale .. And Russia
    needs to better use its budget and not fall in the weapon race trap and blindly spend in military
    things they don't need.. as it is the Mistrals or anphibious assault ships they now making..
    And focus in the most important things.  and all this crashed every week or every month
    needs to stop.. or Putin will end rightly overthrow by its own military for incompetence.
    Making it easier for the west to destabilize Russia.

    Personally i will not expect any changes at all.. or things to improve.. until real Radical
    changes done ,a major reform and or a new completely different president elected with much more vision than Putin.

    Something that i will have done that is radical.. will be like cut the Navy budget in half ,
    scrap most of the soviet navy ,and offer the sailors to join the army to drive armata tanks..
    And the money saved there -re-invested in the Russian Airforce and Russian army in modernization and expansion of it.. to a new level. with new military bases and modern repair facilities.  The bear bombers do have its use.. as monitoring spy planes ,and their long distance travel and capability to carry lethal weapons should not be underestimated. In fact the bear only needs to be improved.. needs to be made ,to be easier to maintain ,fool proof to repair . Perhaps a modular version of the plane done ,that requires very little job to replace any part for a brand new one. The bear should not be discontinue but improved and made it more simple to  repair.. its job should be spying enemy borders through long distances and to retain its capabilities to carry lethal weapons.

    Putin is not a bad president.. but i neither think he is a visionary.. He is more reactionary president.. Expect things to be bad to try to fix it. Expect to be under sanctions to start import substitution. Putin is good in diplomacy but not so good in development and planning. It is very short sighted that Russia now have programs to replace western technology dependence ,when that have to be done a decade ago. not now..You have the Russian modern warships halted because they depend on Ukraine Gas Engines. And no one saw the risk of depending in Ukraine
    that already had very hostile factions planning to take power again ,as they did. I think someone like the pm of donetsk Sarashenko could be a real alternative for President of Russia..   Smile


    Last edited by Vann7 on Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:17 pm; edited 9 times in total

    Mike E
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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  Mike E on Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:26 pm

    ^ Nice rant...

    The Bear in its' role as a bomber has needed to be retired for some time now. However, IMO Russia should scrap those and maintain ELINT & Missile variants, while restarting Tu-160 production.

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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  Cucumber Khan on Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:49 pm

    Mike E wrote:^ Nice rant...

    The Bear in its' role as a bomber has needed to be retired for some time now. However, IMO Russia should scrap those and maintain ELINT & Missile variants, while restarting Tu-160 production.

    The only Tu-95 version in service is the MS, and that's a missile carrier. No bomber or ELINT versions remain. And restarting the Tu-160 production will take years to achieve, if lack of funds don't kill it. So until 2025 or so there will be nothing that can replace the Tu-95...

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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:22 pm

    Cucumber Khan wrote:
    Mike E wrote:^ Nice rant...

    The Bear in its' role as a bomber has needed to be retired for some time now. However, IMO Russia should scrap those and maintain ELINT & Missile variants, while restarting Tu-160 production.

    The only Tu-95 version in service is the MS, and that's a missile carrier. No bomber or ELINT versions remain. And restarting the Tu-160 production will take years to achieve, if lack of funds don't kill it. So until 2025 or so there will be nothing that can replace the Tu-95...

    Depends on how long it actually takes to restart the program. To restart a program, cost and preparation is significantly less than building new planes. But as long as they do NOT cut the budget in half, then they should be able to achieve this, and I have not heard a peep after what economics minister hoped to reduce the budget to. So my guess is no one is going for that since the gov did say they wont reduce it, or at leas not by much.

    That said, the planes need to be replaced, and your 2025 ties directly to PAK DA, they will be able to start earlier than that for Tu-160 - like you said though, all depends if they cut spending or not.

    As for Vann.

    If you look back at the thread, a huge portion of the failures have been from old aircrafts, with the exception of a Ka-52 in 2013 that was due to technical error (haven't seen a lost one since) and Su-34 due to pilot error (so not fault of the plane). If we go back a few years, it was said that a good portion (about 60%) of MiG-29's were barely flyable. At first I thought that was exaggeration but now, I am starting to believe it and a lot of the maintenance has been simply cannibalizing parts from other old MiG's and putting them into the semi functioning ones. As well, it seems they are flying the SMT's no problem but possibly it is all the old models that are dropping (90's and early 2000's era maintenance problems that just cannot be fixed now or at least not worth it). Su-24's as well. Tu-95MS's wont be different either. But in their cases, they need to keep flying these planes till Tu-160 can restart production or PAK DA. So they will definately need to find the solution to their problems and do some heavy maintenance or round the clock upgrades on all their Tu-95's to fix these potential issues. Su-24's are being replaced, and there is still uncertainty of MiG-35's so they may opt for them or eventually phase out MiG-29's altogether (or go for some other model).

    Like mentioned before, even US has had bad months recently in aircraft crashes, even on new equipment. But that isn't excusable and the faults seem to really stem from these old aircrafts.

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