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    Russian-Made Crash Notification

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    zepia

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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  zepia on Sun Dec 25, 2016 2:09 pm

    R.I.P.

    Vann7

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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  Vann7 on Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:02 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:

    BTW, do you have proven statistics of this statement:

    Russia have the WORLD worse record in plane accidents of any nation
    by FAR.. Even more than NATO combined.


    I check RT every day ,and western media too.. And i never see Americans being killed in military planes every months in non combat zone.  If you look at all the Russian accident.. it is almost guarantee that they will have ONE or at least TWO fucking accidents per month ,where two or dozens or more gets killed. If not Mi-8 hellicopters ,then transportation planes or even modern combat jets and bombers.  you will read e v e r y  m o n t h. . breaking news a russian plane crashed bla bla bla. This is not normal at all. No fucking way.  This is total abysmal incompetence of the Russian government.  At the same time When you compare the track record of the Private commercial airplanes industry . it is quite very good. Every day thousands and thousands of civilians planes from civilian airliners enters and leave Russia.
    You read that THOUSANDS!!!! and is very rare when civilian dies in planes accidents in Russia not related to terrorism . Then why the track record of Russian government military aircraft is so awfully bad? They fly significantly far less planes with much less staff required to maintain the plane ,yet still they all fail miserable  and i really think it had all to do with the abysmal quality controls and management and supervision of the Russia military aviation industry.

    For me nothing will be more scary than traveling in a Russian military plane or hellicopter after knowing how many crash every year. 

    You could be a fan of Russia military hardware and technology but that doesn't means you have to justify the Government incompetence and very bad management and quality controls of their facilities that provide service to their aircraft . The government should be the one that set the example to the private industry in quality controls and security and not the other way.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:07 pm

    Once again, do you have proof or no? I don't care about RT and what you check.  I want facts.

    I see Crashes in US and Canada all the time.  But not make wild accusations.

    So, please provide statistical data with comparison.  Otherwise, you are full of shit and an idiot.  Which is easily the case.  Once you make a claim, back it up.  Otherwise, do not be surprised people call you out on your drivel.

    You stated that Russia has more crashes than US and NATO combined. Please provide such data to prove it. NOW.

    Vann7

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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  Vann7 on Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:24 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:

    You stated that Russia has more crashes than US and NATO combined.  Please provide such data to prove it.  NOW.


    At least US.. but it looks like the entire world combined if perception can be counted.
    I forgot the last time ,americans lost a hundred of military serviceman or even a dozen in an aircraft accident in a non war zone. yet in Russia this is normal almost every month or two.  

    Again , im not anti Russian..  i am only against Mediocre administration that is so careless
    with the conditions of its military industry and quality controls. I suspect this have to do
    not only for the retarded leadership ,starting with their president,but also with the people in charge of supervision and economy limitations.

    If Russia cannot afford good quality controls in their military bases..for economic problems,
    then they should cut in half their production of planes and invest more in getting perfect facilities and quality controls with well paid mechanics. and be 100% sure those planes are in perfect condition before any military fly in them. Being sorry for the people who die is not enough. A major significant change needs to happen in Russia way of doing things. It needs
    to be really serious about having very good conditions facilities and quality controls.  It is becoming really tiring to read again and again how they lost an aircraft or a rocket because of 
    poor quality controls.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:30 pm

    I am going to ask, for the last time, to provide citation to your claims.

    Now you made another one:
    They lose hundreds of people every couple of months

    So, one last time, provide proof.  This is citations I am asking for.  If you do not, I will address this further.

    You talk a lot, but provided nothing of the sort of any kind of evidence to your claims. So, for the best interest of this forums, the integrity of it, its staff and for the intelligence of people, provide it. Otherwise, you are completely retarded and should have been aborted.

    Vann7

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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  Vann7 on Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:43 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:I am going to ask, for the last time, to provide citation to your claims.

    Now you made another one:
    They lose hundreds of people every couple of months

    So, one last time, provide proof.  This is citations I am asking for.  If you do not, I will address this further.

    You talk a lot, but provided nothing of the sort of any kind of evidence to your claims.  So, for the best interest of this forums, the integrity of it, its staff and for the intelligence of people, provide it.  Otherwise, you are completely retarded and should have been aborted.


    So you need "Stadistics" to be convinced there is something really wrong with Russia
    record in aircraft accidents?  lol1

    Dude you have to be really in denial to not see Russia have a BIG BIG PROBLEM..
    with aircraft accidents. I complained early in december for another accident ,now we are still 
    in the same month and again more bad news. When is going to stop this madness?

    on a side note. this accident seems suspiciously happening at the same time Obama/CIA/ were speaking about retaliation to Russia for the so called hacking and Israel newspapers were warning of a major event 100x times worse than the ambassador killed that will trigger world war 3.  

    Still this does not change Russia horrible track record in accident. And sorry for this is NOT Normal. If this rate was normal , then you will have Boeing planes crashing in Russia 2-3 times a month or more since every month Thousands of planes travel there.. and this is not the case.

    Every year millions of civilian airliners fly and no crash. yet Russia makes more headlines for accidents with airplanes than any other country in the world.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Singular_Transform

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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  Singular_Transform on Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:46 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:

    BTW, do you have proven statistics of this statement:

    Russia have the WORLD worse record in plane accidents of any nation
    by FAR.. Even more than NATO combined.


    I check RT every day ,and western media too.. And i never see Americans being killed in military planes every months in non combat zone.  If you look at all the Russian accident.. it is almost guarantee that they will have ONE or at least TWO fucking accidents per month ,where two or dozens or more gets killed. If not Mi-8 hellicopters ,then transportation planes or even modern combat jets and bombers.  you will read e v e r y  m o n t h. . breaking news a russian plane crashed bla bla bla. This is not normal at all. No fucking way.  This is total abysmal incompetence of the Russian government.  At the same time When you compare the track record of the Private commercial airplanes industry . it is quite very good. Every day thousands and thousands of civilians planes from civilian airliners enters and leave Russia.
    You read that THOUSANDS!!!! and is very rare when civilian dies in planes accidents in Russia not related to terrorism . Then why the track record of Russian government military aircraft is so awfully bad? They fly significantly far less planes with much less staff required to maintain the plane ,yet still they all fail miserable  and i really think it had all to do with the abysmal quality controls and management and supervision of the Russia military aviation industry.

    For me nothing will be more scary than traveling in a Russian military plane or hellicopter after knowing how many crash every year. 

    You could be a fan of Russia military hardware and technology but that doesn't means you have to justify the Government incompetence and very bad management and quality controls of their facilities that provide service to their aircraft . The government should be the one that set the example to the private industry in quality controls and security and not the other way.


    USA military accidents won't make to the front page, because it is not patriotic.

    Russian accident move to the front page, because it is patriotic.

    Target is to increase the moral your own military, and decrease the morale of the enemy.

    thousand years old strategy, see Sun Tzu .
    http://www.artofwarsuntzu.com/1stChapter.pdf
    Page 15.


    Russian military hardware has the same quality level like the US one.
    See space rocket accidents like shuttle / soyuz, missile failures like tomahawk/kalibr.

    It is not the SU any more, now you can sack the inferior workers and companies.

    All of this noise is just morale booster for the US military (lie about the performance of its equipment) and morale destroyer for the enemy ( magnify anything bad about they equipment).

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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:47 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:I am going to ask, for the last time, to provide citation to your claims.

    Now you made another one:
    They lose hundreds of people every couple of months

    So, one last time, provide proof.  This is citations I am asking for.  If you do not, I will address this further.

    You talk a lot, but provided nothing of the sort of any kind of evidence to your claims.  So, for the best interest of this forums, the integrity of it, its staff and for the intelligence of people, provide it.  Otherwise, you are completely retarded and should have been aborted.


    So you need "Stadistics" to be convinced there is something really wrong with Russia
    record in aircraft accidents?  lol1

    Dude you have to be really in denial to not see Russia have a BIG BIG PROBLEM..
    with aircraft accidents. I complained early in december for another accident ,now we are still 
    in the same month and again more bad news. When is going to stop this madness?

    on a side note. this accident seems suspiciously happening at the same time Obama/CIA/ were speaking about retaliation to Russia for the so called hacking and Israel newspapers were warning of a major event 100x times worse than the ambassador killed that will trigger world war 3.  

    Still this does not will change Russia horrible track record in accident. Which i have been complaining for a long time , you can check by older post in this forum.

    So you have no evidence at all then, right? Someone also provided evidence that goes against your claims previously. You shouldn't have a problem backing up your statements if it happens so often.

    Alright, now you proven you are a fucking retard.
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    Singular_Transform

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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  Singular_Transform on Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:52 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:I am going to ask, for the last time, to provide citation to your claims.

    Now you made another one:
    They lose hundreds of people every couple of months

    So, one last time, provide proof.  This is citations I am asking for.  If you do not, I will address this further.

    You talk a lot, but provided nothing of the sort of any kind of evidence to your claims.  So, for the best interest of this forums, the integrity of it, its staff and for the intelligence of people, provide it.  Otherwise, you are completely retarded and should have been aborted.


    So you need "Stadistics" to be convinced there is something really wrong with Russia
    record in aircraft accidents?  lol1

    Dude you have to be really in denial to not see Russia have a BIG BIG PROBLEM..
    with aircraft accidents. I complained early in december for another accident ,now we are still 
    in the same month and again more bad news. When is going to stop this madness?

    on a side note. this accident seems suspiciously happening at the same time Obama/CIA/ were speaking about retaliation to Russia for the so called hacking and Israel newspapers were warning of a major event 100x times worse than the ambassador killed that will trigger world war 3.  

    Still this does not change Russia horrible track record in accident. And sorry for this is NOT Normal. If this rate was normal , then you will have Boeing planes crashing in Russia 2-3 times a month or more since every month Thousands of planes travel there.. and this is not the case.

    Every year millions of civilian airliners fly and no crash. yet Russia makes more headlines for accidents with airplanes than any other country in the world.


    Ok, so how many accidents the US has per million flight hours, and Russia?

    You sharing with us your emotions, not your analysis.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:53 pm

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incidents_involving_military_aircraft_(2010–present)

    Huh, looks like US has problems with its military planes crashing. Must be due to (Insert Vann7 excuses here).

    Svyatoslavich

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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  Svyatoslavich on Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:10 pm

    It's too early to tell, by now it is only a "conspiracy theory", but I wouldn't discard a sabotage. Obama said he would "make Russia pay" for the (pretended) manipulation of US elections and hacking. First it was the killing of the Russian ambassador in Ankara, now this crash. All globalist in the US are desperate that in less than one month there will be a more friendly government in Washigton towards Russia, and surely will do everything they can to leave a worst possible heritage to Trump to prevent this rapprochement.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:21 pm

    Yeah... No. More like either Pilot error or just shitty old Tu-154 that should have been removed from service long ago.

    After this, I imagine SSJ-100 and MS-21 will be the main thought for replacing these old crashing monsters.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Dec 25, 2016 8:06 pm


    Svyatoslavich

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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  Svyatoslavich on Sun Dec 25, 2016 8:45 pm

    "Shitty old Tu-154"? Do you have an idea of how many shittier and older KC-135 are flying around at this moment? That airplane was first flown in 1983, probably didn't log that many hours as it wasn't used for commercial flights, and we should imagine that it receives a good maintenance.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Dec 25, 2016 8:47 pm

    Look at the track record.  It was pulled even in Russian service excluding MoD.

    It has good record for last 6 years because it barely flew.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-154#Incidents_and_accidents
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  Militarov on Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:59 pm

    Svyatoslavich wrote:"Shitty old Tu-154"? Do you have an idea of how many shittier and older KC-135 are flying around at this moment? That airplane was first flown in 1983, probably didn't log that many hours as it wasn't used for commercial flights, and we should imagine that it receives a good maintenance.

    Full data about the bort in question: http://russianplanes.net/reginfo/2888
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    OminousSpudd

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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  OminousSpudd on Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:25 am

    Maybe you guys should have some decency and respect for the 92 people that have lost their lives, their bodies haven't even been recovered and you're too busy arguing about the reliability of the aircraft and trying to find fault.

    Atrocious.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:42 am

    If we find out it was mechanical failure or system failure, do you guys think it will end the Tu-154 overall to make way of something new like Tu-204 for military use?
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    Benya

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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  Benya on Mon Dec 26, 2016 10:17 am

    Well, this is a really strange "collision"


    Failure of two Su-27SM at the airport Khotilovo

    Photo accident two Su-27SM from the 790 th Fighter Regiment, 105th Guards Composite Air Division 6th Leningrad Red Banner Army Air Force and Air Defence Russia, which took place December 15, 2016 the regiment Khotilovo based on the airfield (Tver region). The picture for some time spreads in social networks, and now was already in the foreign media. According to unofficial reports, the cause of the collision steel erroneous actions fighter pilot with the hull number "02 Red" overly aggressively worked the sliders when taxiing on the airfield. Damage to both aircraft informally referred to as "minor".



    Failure of two Su-27SM VKS Russia on Khotilovo airport (Tver region, 12/15/2016 (c) social networks (via nationalinterest.org)

    Source (in Russian, translated to english with Google Translator): Arrow http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2344196.html
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Dec 26, 2016 2:45 pm

    Well, that is gonna cost a few million to repair and possibly dismissal of one of the pilots.

    JohninMK

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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  JohninMK on Mon Dec 26, 2016 5:57 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Well, that is gonna cost a few million to repair and possibly dismissal of one of the pilots.

    Eh? These are tough as old boots built like tanks Russian planes, not delicate Western ones. Bottle of T-Cut and they will be like new Very Happy
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:14 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:Well, that is gonna cost a few million to repair and possibly dismissal of one of the pilots.

    Eh? These are tough as old boots built like tanks Russian planes, not delicate Western ones. Bottle of T-Cut and they will be like new Very Happy

    lol.

    Well, damage looks like minimal so it will cost little to repair.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  Militarov on Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:20 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:Well, that is gonna cost a few million to repair and possibly dismissal of one of the pilots.

    Eh? These are tough as old boots built like tanks Russian planes, not delicate Western ones. Bottle of T-Cut and they will be like new Very Happy

    lol.

    Well, damage looks like minimal so it will cost little to repair.

    "Cost little" in aviation as term is absurd just to tell you Smile. Prices in aviation are high beyond imagination, the most basic items that you would belive cost few hundred USD (which they should actually) cost few tens of thousand, just coz they are being used by Air Force. Engine covers for MiG-29 cost more than used car, basically just 4 sheets of metal...
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:28 pm

    Yeah, still ridiculous. Curious though, the parts made, are all made specifically for the said machines right? No off the shelf kind of items? One would think that sharing production for both civil and mil production of aircraft parts would be a common thing to save money. Then again, I know little of how they make the components.
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    Singular_Transform

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    Re: Russian-Made Crash Notification

    Post  Singular_Transform on Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:57 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:Well, that is gonna cost a few million to repair and possibly dismissal of one of the pilots.

    Eh? These are tough as old boots built like tanks Russian planes, not delicate Western ones. Bottle of T-Cut and they will be like new Very Happy

    lol.

    Well, damage looks like minimal so it will cost little to repair.

    "Cost little" in aviation as term is absurd just to tell you Smile. Prices in aviation are high beyond imagination, the most basic items that you would belive cost few hundred USD (which they should actually) cost few tens of thousand, just coz they are being used by Air Force. Engine covers for MiG-29 cost more than used car, basically just 4 sheets of metal...

    The manufacturing batch is so small they use fixture + hammer to form the metal.

    Means the tooling cost is low, but the manufacturing is high, as well the scrap.

    All company using this fixture+hammer method, including airbus or boeing : )

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