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    Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

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    Austin
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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  Austin on Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:17 am

    Some Great Photograph

    http://ablogin.ru/category/aviation/

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  Austin on Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:42 am

    Here is another position where they tried to keep the multisensor ball , reportedly it faced vibration issue as it was too close to rotor


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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:22 pm

    All in all, Ka-52 is excellent attack helicopter equipped with very modern ESM, radar, EO system and armament. When Ka-52 will work in combination with Mi-28N, I think tanks and other ground targets will be on Mi-28N duty, while Ka-52 will do target search, air protection and it could also do SEAD missions against enemy ground forces air defense, specially against SHORADs, which protect armor units on the move. In that way Ka-52 could clear the way for Mi-28N to do the job against armor vehicles and other ground targets. It is better suited for that job, because Mi-28N have stronger armor than Ka-52.

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:05 am

    AFAIK the Ka-52s will be used for recon missions and as a result will replace the Mi-2 in service in that role.

    The Ka-52 is much better armed and armoured and also much better equipped with regards to electronics than the Mi-2 ever was.

    Of course the Mi-28 and other assets on the battlefield will be part of a network where all platforms can add to the threat picture so in a sense they will all be recon assets.

    The difference is that the Ka-52 is properly equipped with recon equipment and includes air launched disposable UAVs that can be sent ahead into known danger areas to search for targets and threats.

    I kinda get the feeling that the Ka-52 will be spotting targets for all platforms including aircraft like the Mi-28 as well as land based missile vehicles like HERMES.

    Obviously they will also have an attack function but I feel that with lots of Mi-28s in the Russian Army it will be the Russian Navy that uses the Hokum as an attack/recon platform the most from their Mistral carriers.

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  Austin on Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:05 am

    The purchase of Mistral has come as a real boom to Ka-52 platform ,As far as russian army goes they had decided to opt for Mi-28N as their main attack helicopter and Ka-52 got sidelined but small production run was requested for special ops reco role ,iirc the old figure it was 30 odd for Ka-52 and 100 plus for Mi-28N.

    Now with 4 Mistral being purchased ,Ka got a new lease of life as they do have the expertise to make choppers for navalised environment , so there are talks of 80 to 100 odd Ka-52 being purchased for Naval role as Attack/Reco chopper.

    Which is good for a fan of both choppers like me , they both had their unique design advantage and would have been pity to let one go , now its both so happy me attack

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:08 am

    An interesting new photo of a Ka-52 with the large central under nose ball turret, plus a small turret next to it for the pilot I would suspect.
    You can tell from the HUD that the small ball is on the pilots side.

    Most interesting is the small turret under the belly of the aircraft next to the main undercarriage leg which seems to be an operational DIRCMs turret (the other turret is mounted opposite next to the other main wheel leg on the other side of the belly of the aircraft)...



    BTW I too am happy that both helos are getting an opportunity to get into service as in many ways they are different enough to be complimentary. The coaxial rotor of the Hokum makes it better for naval use and for use in high altitudes, while the commonality of the Havoc with the Hind mean money can be saved in the transition from one aircraft to the other... and it can probably do the job cheaper than a Hokum can.

    Hopefully the Mistral purchases will be good for the Ka-60 and Ka-226 as well.

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:19 pm

    This helicopter have number 062, so it is the second prototype, which have small EO ball from the beginning. DIRCM balls are interesting, because if I remember correctly, they are different as the ones which this prototype have at the beginning.

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  Austin on Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:22 pm

    Do they carry Internal RF Jammers ? I hope they get a nice DRFM internal jammers and this seems to be tuned for Special Ops mission.

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:33 pm



    Ka-52 cockpit.

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Sun May 22, 2011 6:51 pm

    http://dv.rian.ru/army/20110522/82010128.html

    Four new Ka-52 helicopters send to air base in Russian Far East. To the end of 2012 they will have a whole regiment of Ka-52 stationed in that air base.

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jul 10, 2011 1:12 pm

    That lighting and the black background of the cockpit in your photo Medo suggests the cockpit of the Ka-52 is optimised for night vision goggles.

    I would suspect the gunner/weapon operator might have HMD sights for thermal stereo views of outside the helo and data displayed in his field of view, while the pilot will likely have conventional NVGs perhaps with a data field displayed showing altitude and speed and compass points etc.

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:03 pm

    http://www.militaryparitet.com/perevodnie/data/ic_perevodnie/1675/

    Naval version of Ka-52 will be equipped with modified Zhuk-AE AESA radar from Fazotron-MIIP, originally for Mig-35, which will enable Ka-52 to use Kh-31 and Kh-35 anti-ship missiles. First prototype radar will be build in 2012.

    Fazotron-NIIP also deliver mechanically scanned radars Arbalet to Progress plant to install in standard Ka-52 and first 4 Ka-52 were delivered in May this year.

    In my opinion if naval Ka-52 could use Kh-31 anti-ship missile, than could also use Kh-31 anti-radar missile. Maybe Zhuk AESA radar could be used in air to air mode and I wouldn't be surprised if it will carry R-77 AAM.

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:47 pm

    I would expect that the Ka-52 would already have the ESM suite that would enable it to use anti radiation missiles. I believe the Kh-25 series ARMs might be better suited in terms of size and weight but Kh-31s might be useable too.

    The Su-24 used an external pod to use the Kh-58 (AS-11), but modern ESM systems would likely give enough information for an ARM launch.

    The new radar should allow compatibility with a whole range of new weapons too, and if the system works out perhaps a new model Ka-31 without the under belly radar array but with front, rear and side mounted fixed arrays could be used with much faster scan rates (ie electronic scan in miliseconds) and of course LPI modes to reduce the signature of the aircraft.

    On another thread Kratos1133 posted a poster showing new missile seekers and it included one with a 150mm active radar seeker that could easily be fitted to an RVV-MD or R-73 to give all weather day night capability... a sort of mini R-77.

    This would be most useful for legacy fighters or a self defence weapon for attack aircraft like the Su-25 or helicopters. A bit more punch than a MANPADs but not as big and heavy as an R-77.

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:06 pm

    Agree. In any way R-73 have longer range and heavier warhead than any MANPAD.

    I wonder what are caracteristics of serial Arbalet radar for standard Ka-52. In air to air mode with R-73 AAMs it will still be quite potent helicopter killer. More interesting are Arbalet terrain following and ground attack capabilities. Maybe it have capabilities to use radio guided ATGMs and radar guided ATGMs like Krizanthema, but I think radar will give longer range and all weather capabilities for using Hermes ATGMs comparing to EO system.

    On the other hand I wonder what capabilities and weapon options will Zhuk AESA radar give to Ka-52, but it will for sure be more capable than Arbalet in range and in different modes of working.

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:58 am

    The main difference of course is that the AESA they are talking about will be like a fighter radar and just give a view from the nose of the aircraft, while Arbalet is a 360 degree system that serves to detect incoming threats from any direction.

    An AESA would be good for an attack aircraft, but I think for an attack helo the Arbalet will be better in many regards.

    Certainly with modern computer hardware and X band AESA should offer all sorts of ground mapping and targeting options though I would expect an AESA radar would be more use for a Naval helo at sea than on land where the Arbalet system would be better overall.

    At some time a fixed scanning array for Arbalet would be a good thing too.

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:21 pm

    I don't know if air force Ka-52 have Arbalet radar on top of main rotor head, but for sure have radar in nose radom. Radar in nose radom could not cover 360°, because it could nor rotate radar antenna 360°. But even multifunctional radar looking in front of helicopter is a big improvement against other helicopters. For self defense ESM sensors cover 360° and could see any treat. than helicopter just turn against treat and work with radar and EO sensors against it.

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:35 am

    The radar system for Kamov Ka-50 based attack helos have a split system with the MMW radar in the nose and the CM Wave radar in a mast mounted arrangement.

    The current configuration of the Mi-28N is both systems in a mast mounted ball, but for Kamov I have never seen them use that arrangement.

    Perhaps they have discarded the air search component of the system, which would be disappointing as it could reportedly detect Stinger size targets at 6km which is pretty impressive if you think about the size of a stinger missile end on heading towards you from that distance.

    Perhaps their optical sensors of their self defence suite have achieved similar levels of performance and made the air search radar redundant?

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:09 pm

    I think Ka-52 was from the beginning designed to use radar in nose radom. I wonder if coaxial rotor could support mast mounted radar as rotor in Mi-28N.

    It seems Ka-52 for operational units are equipped with Arbalet radar, while the first helicopters are not. There wasn't any photos of first operational Ka-52, so we still don't know if those helicopters get DIRCM balls to complete its ESM suit.

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 20, 2011 3:07 am

    I have seen a few Ka-52s fitted with circular positions near the main undercarriage where the DIRCM turrets go, so I would say they will all be fitted for the system and perhaps when it is ready they will likely install them on them all.

    I remember early on they had a mockup ball mounted above the coaxial rotors of the Ka-52 for the 360 degree CM wave air search radar, but with all the changing of EO systems with balls on the roof and balls in the nose and under the nose and all sorts of places it seems they haven't decided on what setup they want.

    I rather expect the President system will offer the 360 degree coverage and threat detection that a mast mounted radar could offer and that perhaps such a system might make a mast mounted radar a little redundant (and it wouldn't be cheap either).

    Will be interesting to see their final arrangement for the Kamov and the Mil.

    I also very much like the two seat attack version of the ANSAT.

    Blue Thunder II TV series in Russia?

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  Cyberspec on Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:44 am

    medo wrote:http://www.militaryparitet.com/perevodnie/data/ic_perevodnie/1675/

    Naval version of Ka-52 will be equipped with modified Zhuk-AE AESA radar from Fazotron-MIIP, originally for Mig-35, which will enable Ka-52 to use Kh-31 and Kh-35 anti-ship missiles. First prototype radar will be build in 2012.

    Fazotron-NIIP also deliver mechanically scanned radars Arbalet to Progress plant to install in standard Ka-52 and first 4 Ka-52 were delivered in May this year.

    In my opinion if naval Ka-52 could use Kh-31 anti-ship missile, than could also use Kh-31 anti-radar missile. Maybe Zhuk AESA radar could be used in air to air mode and I wouldn't be surprised if it will carry R-77 AAM.

    There are some that are questioning the ability of the Ka-52 to fire a Kh-31. Apparently the relatively low speed of a helicopter is not suited for a Kh-31 launch. The air-launched version of the Kh-35 might be feasible though and the early Ka-52 demonstrator was shown with R-73 A-A missiles.


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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:43 am

    There are some that are questioning the ability of the Ka-52 to fire a Kh-31. Apparently the relatively low speed of a helicopter is not suited for a Kh-31 launch. The air-launched version of the Kh-35 might be feasible though and the early Ka-52 demonstrator was shown with R-73 A-A missiles.

    I have read of the same concerns regarding the Su-25TM using the weapon, but there is a solid rocket booster that can be fitted to the Kh-31 to allow "slow" launches...


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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  Cyberspec on Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:40 pm

    GarryB wrote:but there is a solid rocket booster that can be fitted to the Kh-31 to allow "slow" launches...

    Interesting....and thanks for the pics.

    Personally, I still think the Kh-31 would be overkill for a helicopter.

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:26 pm

    For most helos I would agree, but for a naval attack helo being able to fire a Kh-31AD with an anti ship range of 150km or so, followed almost immediately by a Kh-31PD anti radiation missile if the ship spots the helo means even with the highest speed naval SAM the helo will have time to drop below the radar horizon and try to get some distance between itself and its launch position... leading to a decent chance of a hit and a reasonable chance of escape.

    For most targets such weapons are overkill, but for some the Kh-31AD is like a mini Brahmos.

    Certainly a Ka-29 troop carrying helo could probably do with a smaller and lighter ARM like the Kh-25 type ARMs and their range of 40km would still be rather useful... but I suspect a normal load would remain 8 Shturm/Ataka and two 20 shot 80mm rocket pods and the built in 4 barrel 30 cal gatling gun or the 30mm cannon.

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:12 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:
    GarryB wrote:but there is a solid rocket booster that can be fitted to the Kh-31 to allow "slow" launches...

    Interesting....and thanks for the pics.

    Personally, I still think the Kh-31 would be overkill for a helicopter.

    Yes and no. Russian navy doesn't have large number of aircraft carriers, so naval infantry could have only support of helicopters on Mistral class ship. For example, Kuznetsov is in Northern fleet, Mistral will be in Pacific fleet. Ka-52 armed with Kh-31 will do anti-ship role and as well SEAD role to suppress enemy air defense before naval infantry reach the beach, that transport helicopters could transport troops and supply there. With Zhuk AESA radar, Ka-52 could be able to use R-73 and R-77 AA missiles, to do some air protection together with SAMs on ships.

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:13 pm

    The air-launched version of the Kh-35 might be feasible though and the early Ka-52 demonstrator was shown with R-73 A-A missiles.

    Should also mention that the Kh-35 designed to be launched from helos also has a solid rocket booster... it is the same solid rocket booster with fins that is used for the ship launched version of the missile.





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