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    Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

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    kopyo-21

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  kopyo-21 on Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:34 am

    I think the best gun option for Mi-28 & Ka-52 now is 2A72 30mm gun. Although its firing rate is slower than 2A42 but it is simpler and lighter. Most important, its long recoil operation makes it less vibration when firing than 2A42 so the accuracy will be improved.
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    George1

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  George1 on Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:56 am

    Two Kamov-52 have been transferred to the 4th Air-force & Air-defense (VVS i PVO) Army in the Kuban region (YuVO). [Probably 55th Separate Helicopter Regiment (OVP) in Korenovsk.]

    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4894500



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    GarryB

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:48 am

    The gun on the Kamov is mounted closer to the helos centre of gravity so it recoils less and is more accurate.

    Replacing the 2A42 with the 2A72 would reduce recoil a little with its longer recoil stroke but not a huge amount.


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    kopyo-21

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  kopyo-21 on Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:41 am

    The gun on Ka-52 is intalled near the center of gravity so can reduce the vibrations when firing compare to Mi-28N.

    However, the recoil force of 2A42 is very strong (30-40KN) and much more than 2A72 (just 6KN). Therefore replacing 2A42 by 2A72 will help Ka-52s reduce the vibration and improve the accuracy significantly.

    http://weaponsystems.net/weaponsystem/II04%20-%202A72.html

    http://weaponsystems.net/weaponsystem/II04%20-%202A42.html

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    GarryB

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:37 am

    Have not heard any complaints about the accuracy of the gun on either aircraft.


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    kopyo-21

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  kopyo-21 on Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:11 pm

    Not sure if they are totally happy with the 2A42 gun, especiall on Mi-28N. In my opinion, the key reason they keep the 2A42 gun is because of its higher rate-of-fire for the secondary role, dealing with low-flying and low-speed air targets (helicopters, UAVs, transport aircrafts, etc).

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    GarryB

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:33 am

    For low speed air targets rate of fire is not very important... it has digital optics, night vision equipment, laser ranging, and a computer calculated fire control system...

    Besides Mi-28s and Ka-52s wont be hunting enemy aircraft or UAVs... they have plenty of other platforms much better suited to that role, not to mention the Russian Army is generally very well equipped against such targets too.

    If shooting down enemy aircraft was an important consideration then the twin barrel 23mm cannon armed Hind would be a much better solution.


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    kopyo-21

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  kopyo-21 on Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:58 am

    I think if they plan to use Mi-28N and Ka-52 to hunt enemy's helicopters and UAVs, they will equip them with air-to-air missiles like Strela or R-73M before taking off. However, I don't think they will use them much in that role so in most of situations, Ka-52 and Mi-28N will have only 30mm gun to deal with those targets and higher gun's ROF means higher hit probability.

    Their primary role is still ground attake so they still need to keep the 30mm gun.
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    Isos

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  Isos on Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:06 pm

    kopyo-21 wrote:I think if they plan to use Mi-28N and Ka-52 to hunt enemy's helicopters and UAVs, they will equip them with air-to-air missiles like Strela or R-73M before taking off. However, I don't think they will use them much in that role so in most of situations, Ka-52 and Mi-28N will have only 30mm gun to deal with those targets and higher gun's ROF means higher hit probability.

    Their primary role is still ground attake so they still need  to keep the 30mm gun.

    They are always working in groups of helicopters so some of them will carry strela or igla missiles. They can also all carry mix of weapons like half atgm and half igla missiles.
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    medo

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  medo on Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:48 pm

    kopyo-21 wrote:I think if they plan to use Mi-28N and Ka-52 to hunt enemy's helicopters and UAVs, they will equip them with air-to-air missiles like Strela or R-73M before taking off. However, I don't think they will use them much in that role so in most of situations, Ka-52 and Mi-28N will have only 30mm gun to deal with those targets and higher gun's ROF means higher hit probability.

    Their primary role is still ground attake so they still need  to keep the 30mm gun.

    Ka-52 have 6 underwing pylons and outer pair is meant for Igla-V air to air missiles (2x2). Prototype have R-73 missiles on pylons, but we didn't see serial ones with those missiles yet. Mi-28N could as well carry Igla-V missiles, but for helicopter and UAV hunting is Ka-52 better, as ut have better radar and EO equippment and unic flying capabilities.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:43 am

    To be honest if you want to hunt small cheap UAVs you need a decent optimised air to air radar... I would say speed would also be useful because enemy UAVs wont be all in one group moving together so flying fast means being able to move from one target to the next rapidly.

    Right now I would think the best option would be either a Yak-130 with some 23mm gun pods and a few quad packs of Igla-S AAMs, perhaps with R-73s for use against enemy helos... fitted with a nose mounted radar and EO targeting pod, or an Su-25 similarly equipped.

    For the future I would say the easiest and cheapest way to deal with enemy UAVs is with your own armed UAVs... with air burst 40mm grenades that detonate short of the target and scatter fragments directly forward like a rather powerful shotgun blast at the enemy threat... this would limit the potential damage of standard HE rounds missing and landing all over the place on friendly territory and also mean generally single shot kills against most targets.


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    kopyo-21

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  kopyo-21 on Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:59 am

    Just read an article about the Ka-50. Its 2A42 gun fires 4 time more accuracy than Mi-28N's 2A42 gun and 3 times more accuracy than M230 gun on AH-64.
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:05 am

    kopyo-21 wrote:Just read an article about the Ka-50. Its 2A42 gun fires 4 time more accuracy than Mi-28N's 2A42 gun and 3 times more accuracy than M230 gun on AH-64.

    Please do not cite articles on the web has evidence of capabilities of weapons systems....

    These articles do not have access to information they need to state such claims.

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    GarryB

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:42 am

    The Mi-28 cannon is mounted under the nose of the aircraft, the cannon on the Ka-50 and Ka-52 is mounted near the centre of gravity... making it much more stable when it fires...

    It is not that surprising that the same gun can have such different accuracy performances on different mounts... it is a bit like comparing a PK fired from a standing position and a PK fired from a prone position on the ground.

    Note that firing from standing gives better arcs of fire, so targets coming from any direction are easier to deal with... is for close range fights it is better.

    For sustained or long range fire prone offers the best option.


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    George1

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  George1 on Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:35 am

    The Ministry of Defense of Russia plans to purchase 114 more Ka-52 helicopters

    As reported on February 6, 2018 by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, it plans to conclude a contract for the purchase of an additional 114 Ka-52 Alligator helicopters as part of the implementation of the new State Arms Program 2018-2027. Deputy Defense Minister Yury Borisov told journalists about this, commenting on the results of the meeting in the Arsenyev Progress Air Company named after Sazykin in the Primorsky Territory.



    "This will be a new modification, discussing just the details of how the designers manage to make all the necessary improvements," the deputy head of the military department explained.

    Yuri Borisov noted that for the Ka-52 create new long-range missiles, in addition, the helicopter will receive an improved optical-sighting system.

    The deputy minister also said that according to the plan in 2018, the VCS should receive six new Ka-52s.

    On the bmpd side, recall that the JSC "AAK" Progress "concluded on March 13, 2007 with the Ministry of Defense of Russia the first contract for the supply of two prototype and 24 serial Ka-52 helicopters, implemented by 2012. On March 1, 2011, JSC" Russian Helicopters " a second long-term contract was concluded for the supply of 143 Ka-52 helicopters worth more than 120 billion rubles to the Ministry of Defense until 2020. According to available information, by the beginning of 2018, 91 contracts were handed over to AAK "Progress" helicopter Ka-52.

    In addition, under the contract of 2012 with the JSC "Kamov" on AAK "Progress" four experienced ship helicopters Ka-52K were built. The contract signed on April 8, 2014 by the Ministry of Defense of Russia for the supply of 32 serial Ka-52K helicopters has now been suspended by action.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3083434.html


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    George1

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  George1 on Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:14 am

    So till now we have 24+91=115 serial Ka-52s delivered to VKS

    And 4 Ka-52K to Naval Aviation.


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    AMCXXL

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  AMCXXL on Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:15 am

    George1 wrote:So till now we have 24+91=115 serial Ka-52s delivered to VKS

    And 4 Ka-52K to Naval Aviation.

    This is not true

    On the bmpd side: According to available information.....
    Translation: bmpd has no fucking idea
    No data, no sources, no liknks

    The first contract of 2007 were not complemented in time and were of "about 30", not 24
    The contract was was modified/expanded in 2011 in a long term contract until 2020.
    The first Ka-52 series were received in Chernigovka and Torzhok in 2011.
    146 is the TOTAL contracted by RuAF until 2020
    It is not easy to find exact sources from so many years ago.
    Even bmpd does not have information on the Ka-52 because the production plant does not give production data every year

    http://rosvesty.ru/2015/politic/6987-ka-52-otlozhennii-polet/
    On June 27, 2008, the first test flight of the first Ka-52 from the experimental batch took place at the airfield of Progress Aviation Plant in Arsenyev (Primorsky Krai). October 29, 2008 at the factory "Progress" began a small-scale production of "Alligators". The helicopter itself is excellent, but its manufacturers have subcontractors.
    It was pure on paper ...
    According to media reports, within the framework of the state defense order program, the Russian army will receive up to 30 Ka-52 helicopters by 2012. But will they get this - that's the question.


    http://progressprim.ru/news/book/2011-12-08-01563.htm
    In October 2008, the official presentation of the new combat helicopter Ka-52 Alligator was held, in which the third flight took part - it was shown to representatives of ministries and departments interested in this car. Then serial production began with simultaneous carrying out of various tests. In February 2011, at the aviation base in Torzhok, an official ceremony was held to transfer the pilot batch of helicopters to the Combat Training and Retraining Center.In May 2011, a transfer of a batch of helicopters to the military unit of the Eastern Military District was held, an airbase in Chernigovka, where helicopters connected to military tests and began scheduled flights under combat training plans.

    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/3421686
    146 Ka-52 "Alligator" helicopters, which showed high quality in Syria, will go to the troops until 2020. Currently, work is under way to equip helicopters with aircraft weapons of long range damage, Deputy Defense Minister Yury Borisov said on Friday.
    "Arsenievsky helicopter plant, is a supplier of combat helicopters Ka-52,which in the amount of 146 pieces are contracted until 2020




    For the moment , including the production of 2017 the number manofactired is about 104 , but it is not clear if this includes several prototypes or not

    2017 12?
    2016 16
    2015 12
    2014 10?
    2013 14
    2012 24
    2011 12
    Previous: 4 or 5 prototypes?

    One Ka-52 was lost in Torzhok and other in the production plant[/b]

    In 3 years (2018-2020) the total received will reach 146 (about more 14 per year)

    About Ka-52K , nothing heard about Navy have been received. Last photos are of pre-series in trials on board one frigate
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    George1

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  George1 on Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:09 am

    ok! thanks!


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    AMCXXL

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    Re: Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

    Post  AMCXXL on Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:14 pm

    George1 wrote:ok! thanks!

    There are some discordances about how many helicopters were produced by year , because in some cases were stored a time and handed over some moths later

    5 prototypes and preseries in Kamov (1 lost)
    In 2010 produced 4 , but deployed in 2011 to Torzhov after adjustments in the plant
    In 2011 produced 12 Ka-52 ,  for Chernigovka. ( 8 entered in service in september and the other 4 in the first months of next year
    In 2012 were made 24 Ka-52: 4 Torzhov(1 lost), 16 SouthMD (First Konerovsk and later Dzankoy after Crimea returned to Russia) and other 4 to Chernigovka
    In 2013 other 14 (Chernigovka , Ostrov)
    In 2014 10 to Jabárovsk and Ostrov
    In 2015 12 to Jabárovsk and Korenovsk
    In 2016 16 to Korenovsk
    In 2016 12 to Vyazma?
    Total:104 (1 lost)
    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/160928.html
    Earlier, as is known, at the Center for Combat Training and Retraining of Army Aviation Staff of the Russian Air Force in Torzhok, there were four Ka-52 helicopters delivered there in late 2010 in early configuration with airborne numbers from "92 yellow" to "95 yellow."
    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/700413.html
    On December 25, 2013, at the Arsenyev Aviation Company Progress named after NI Sazykin (AAK Progress, part of the Russian Helicopters, a subsidiary of the Oboronprom complex), an official transfer ceremony was held in Arsenyev to the Ministry of Defense Russia party of 14 regular production of military-made helicopters Ka-52 Alligator
    The total number of constructed Ka-52 boards, together with the experienced ones, has now reached 65 units (of which two are lost). Of the 63 cash machines, 20 are in Chernigovka, 16 in Korenovsk, eight in Torzhok, 12 are planned for transfer to the Island, five are pilot owned by Kamov, and the appointment of the two new is still unknown
    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/465687.html
    Ka-52 in Korenovsk
    bmpd  February 25th, 2013
    The press service of the administration of Korenovska (Krasnodar Territory) reported that on February 19, 2013 the first new military helicopter Ka-52 entered the 393rd Sevastopol aviation base of the Russian Air Force's army stationed at the Korenovsk airport. This is a car with a number "42 red" (serial number 06-01), from the number produced in 2012 by OAO "Arsenyev Aviation Company Progress", the assembly of which since January 2013 is carried out at Rostvertol OJSC in Rostov- on-Don (which our blog has already reported here and here )
    In total, according to the press service of the Korenovsk administration, until the end of February, the 393rd airbase should receive 16 Ka-52 helicopters assembled in Rostov, although it is unclear whether this period will be sustained.
    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/1121184.html
    Khabarovsk air base receives Ka-52 helicopters
    bmpd January 3rd, 2015
    As reported by Vesti-Primorye TV company Rossiya 24, to Arsenyev Aviation Company Progress named after NI Sazykin (part of the Russian Helicopters) in Arsenyev (Primorsky Krai) in the last days of December 2014 the Russian Defense Ministry was handed over the next ten military helicopters Ka-52 new. The helicopters have blue side numbers (in the video report of "Vesti-Primorye" the cars with blue onboard numbers "04", "05" and "09" are illuminated).
    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/1130502.html
    Further from the report 2012. It is known that the 16 cars manufactured for Korenovsk and five for Chernigov produced at the end of the year remained for some time on "responsible storage" with the AAC. Their cost is indicated - 12 967 584 and 4 052 370 thousand rubles. respectively (it is probably already with VAT). Thus, the price of one car in 2012. - 810.474 million. Total based on the above figure for helicopter production in 2012. with VAT, the AAC produced exactly 24 machines (the figure was obtained without tenths and hundredths, which once again confirms the correctness of the calculations). According to the 2013 report. at the end of the year, 12 cars for the military unit 41687 (378 AvB AA in Vyazma, although in fact the cars left for Ostrov) remained in the custody of storage, at a total cost of 9,752,689 thousand rubles, that is, the price for one helicopter was 812.724 million .rub. In addition, two experienced Ka-62 incomprehensibly low cost of 268.9 million rubles, produced for JSC Kamov, remained on storage. Based on the above revenue, in 2013. Progress produced no more than 14 Ka-52.
    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/1334647.html
    Composition of the 39th helicopter regiment in Dzhankoy in the Crimea
    bmpd June 10th 2015
    As already reported , in the Crimea at the Dzhankoy airfield (the northern part of the peninsula) at the end of 2014, the 39th Helicopter Regiment was formed as part of the new 27th Mixed Air Division of the 4th Air Force and Air Defense Command of Russia.
    From the report, the composition of the 39th regiment is clear, including, in addition, two squadrons of new combat helicopters-one on Ka-52 helicopters:
    1st on helicopters Ka-52,
    2nd on the Mi-28 and Mi-35
    3th on the Mi-8AMTSH
    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/1855311.html
    From the officially published financial statements for 2015 of the holding company "Helicopters of Russia" and its enterprises
    Ready-made products accepted for custody:
    Ka-52 12 pcs. for the amount of 9.725 billion rubles. - adopted in 2015. from military unit of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation;
    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2225362.html
    55 Helicopter regiment in Korenovsk before the end of the year will receive the squadron Ka-52
    Judging by the publication in the newspaper "Red Star" " Helicopter Harbor of the Kuban " until the end of the year 55 helicopter regiment will form a 3rd squadron, armed with Ka-52 helicopters. Earlier, this squadron already had a squadron with such helicopters, but it was transferred to the 39th regiment in Dzhankoy in 2014
    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4075756
    The RF Ministry of Defense in 2017 will receive 12 Ka-52 Alligator helicopters
    Army and Defense Industry March 7, 2017, 7:33 UTC + 3
    Representatives of the plant that produces these helicopters reported that in 2016 the enterprise transferred 14 Ka-52 helicopters to the military department in the framework of the state defense order and 2 more machines in excess of the plan


    More on TASS:
    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4075756

    8 Torzhok
    20 Chernigovka
    16 Dzankoy
    12 Ostrov
    16 Javarovsk
    20 Korenovsk
    12 Vyazma?

    The Ka-52K and Egiptian Ka-52 are in separate series with its own prototypes/preseries

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